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Thread: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

  1. #61
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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    -Witten is a "has been".
    -McDonald is a "never was".
    -Olsen is definitely declined, but at 34 years old I think still has good skills to play.

    I would try and get a deal done with either Vannett or Olsen. I still think that even at 34 years old Olsen is a better receiver than Vannett. I would then draft a young TE so that he doesn't have to carry the load as a rookie and can learn from one of the great TE's from the past decade. 2 year $8million might be Olsen price tag.
    Agreed, I think Vannett or picking up Olsen at a bargain price AND drafting a TE would be ideal.
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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Agreed, I think Vannett or picking up Olsen at a bargain price AND drafting a TE would be ideal.
    I don't think the Steelers can lowball Olsen and expect to sign him. He has been making $8million the past 2 seasons, but his production hasn't been worth that. But he is 34, not 39 like Antonio Gates and Ben Watson were last season, so I think he still is gonna get somebody offering him 4-5 million a season for a couple years.

    Also, this notion that the current TE crop isn't that good is false IMO. I think the depth of it is much better than last year draft, but there just isn't the hype of guys like Hockenson, Fant and Irv Smith. Guys like Josh Oliver and Jace Sternberger went in the 3rd last year. There are probably 6 or 7 TE in this years draft that I would rather have than Oliver or Sternberger. I also think the top 4 prospects are as good or better than Irv Smith.

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I don't think the Steelers can lowball Olsen and expect to sign him. He has been making $8million the past 2 seasons, but his production hasn't been worth that. But he is 34, not 39 like Antonio Gates and Ben Watson were last season, so I think he still is gonna get somebody offering him 4-5 million a season for a couple years.

    Also, this notion that the current TE crop isn't that good is false IMO. I think the depth of it is much better than last year draft, but there just isn't the hype of guys like Hockenson, Fant and Irv Smith. Guys like Josh Oliver and Jace Sternberger went in the 3rd last year. There are probably 6 or 7 TE in this years draft that I would rather have than Oliver or Sternberger. I also think the top 4 prospects are as good or better than Irv Smith.
    There sure isn't the hype but there are good players within the Steelers reach.
    "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself--and you are
    the easiest person to fool."

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    I'd like to see them draft a TE and I think it warrants a round 2 selection. Vannett wasn't worth the 5th round pick to get him and McDonald is not a reliable TE

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I don't think the Steelers can lowball Olsen and expect to sign him. He has been making $8million the past 2 seasons, but his production hasn't been worth that. But he is 34, not 39 like Antonio Gates and Ben Watson were last season, so I think he still is gonna get somebody offering him 4-5 million a season for a couple years.

    Also, this notion that the current TE crop isn't that good is false IMO. I think the depth of it is much better than last year draft, but there just isn't the hype of guys like Hockenson, Fant and Irv Smith. Guys like Josh Oliver and Jace Sternberger went in the 3rd last year. There are probably 6 or 7 TE in this years draft that I would rather have than Oliver or Sternberger. I also think the top 4 prospects are as good or better than Irv Smith.
    To clarify on the notion that this TE class is not "that good". This TE class has plenty of receiving TEs that are good. None that are great or warrant the Steelers' 2nd round pick, IMO. Hopkins, the 2 Bryants, Kmet, Trautman, and Pinkney all have the same downside, and that is their inability or unwillingness to be a consistent in-line blocker. Strangely Randy Moss' son seems to be the best blocker of the class but has very limited skills as a receiver. Not saying any of these guys are 'bad' TEs, just that I would look at other position groups at round 2 and 3. That's only my personal opinion. Later round guys such as Parkinson, Deguara, and Magnifico have at least played both the receiver and blocker roles regularly and consistently even if not at an elite level. Breeland just doesn't have enough games under his belt to risk a day 2 pick on either, IMO. I'm definitely not saying don't draft a TE, just that none of these TEs look like enough upgrade to take in the 2nd or 3rd(depending where this comp pick falls) this draft. I agree there are more 2nd level talent TEs in this class than in recent drafts. Makes it an interesting class to watch.

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    To clarify on the notion that this TE class is not "that good". This TE class has plenty of receiving TEs that are good. None that are great or warrant the Steelers' 2nd round pick, IMO. Hopkins, the 2 Bryants, Kmet, Trautman, and Pinkney all have the same downside, and that is their inability or unwillingness to be a consistent in-line blocker. Strangely Randy Moss' son seems to be the best blocker of the class but has very limited skills as a receiver. Not saying any of these guys are 'bad' TEs, just that I would look at other position groups at round 2 and 3. That's only my personal opinion. Later round guys such as Parkinson, Deguara, and Magnifico have at least played both the receiver and blocker roles regularly and consistently even if not at an elite level. Breeland just doesn't have enough games under his belt to risk a day 2 pick on either, IMO. I'm definitely not saying don't draft a TE, just that none of these TEs look like enough upgrade to take in the 2nd or 3rd(depending where this comp pick falls) this draft. I agree there are more 2nd level talent TEs in this class than in recent drafts. Makes it an interesting class to watch.
    I wonder if Moss' perceived lack of hand talent has anything to do with LSU's abundance of great wideouts? I watched 3 or 4 LSU games(small sample size I know) and Moss just didn't seem to be targeted much, and when he was he pretty much caught everything that came his way. Personally I wouldn't mind having him. We know he has good genetics, and he's a willing blocker which is to me is a little more important than being just a receiving threat.






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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    To clarify on the notion that this TE class is not "that good". This TE class has plenty of receiving TEs that are good. None that are great or warrant the Steelers' 2nd round pick, IMO. Hopkins, the 2 Bryants, Kmet, Trautman, and Pinkney all have the same downside, and that is their inability or unwillingness to be a consistent in-line blocker. Strangely Randy Moss' son seems to be the best blocker of the class but has very limited skills as a receiver. Not saying any of these guys are 'bad' TEs, just that I would look at other position groups at round 2 and 3. That's only my personal opinion. Later round guys such as Parkinson, Deguara, and Magnifico have at least played both the receiver and blocker roles regularly and consistently even if not at an elite level. Breeland just doesn't have enough games under his belt to risk a day 2 pick on either, IMO. I'm definitely not saying don't draft a TE, just that none of these TEs look like enough upgrade to take in the 2nd or 3rd(depending where this comp pick falls) this draft. I agree there are more 2nd level talent TEs in this class than in recent drafts. Makes it an interesting class to watch.
    Have you seen Trautman block?
    Here is a link to a twitter video of him blocking Wisconsin OLB Zach Baun at the Senior Bowl. https://www.bleachernation.com/bears...-adam-shaheen/
    -In the same practice he also down blocked on the D tackle so that Shea Patterson could bootleg run into the end zone and it drew praise from NFL Network announcer Charles Davis.

    Harrison Bryant also drew praise in Mobile for his blocking. I saw one report from Tony Pauline touting it, and another story here.
    Harrison Bryant, TE, FAU
    : It was a great week for the tight ends down in Mobile, and Bryant really stood out today in the ground game. Whether it was from an inline position or as an H-back in an offset formation, Bryant showcased great blocking, which surely caught the eyes of evaluators. https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/25/21081715/nfl-draft-2020-senior-bowl-prospects-bengals-news

    Sure, a lot of college TE's may not be asked to block as much, but it doesn't mean they aren't able to or cant improve quickly with some coaching. Pinkney has the size and power to block.

    Brycen Hopkins has already been working on his blocking, with the help of his 2x Pro Bowl Offensive lineman and father Brad Hopkins.

    I will disagree that Randy Moss kid is the best blocker in the draft at the TE position and that none of these TE's warrant a 2nd round pick. I will go as far as saying I think at least 3 TE's will be off the board in the first 2 rounds. I think there are at least 6 TE in the draft that are better than last years 3rd round pick of the Packers, Jace Sternberger.

  8. #68
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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Have you seen Trautman block?
    Here is a link to a twitter video of him blocking Wisconsin OLB Zach Baun at the Senior Bowl. https://www.bleachernation.com/bears...-adam-shaheen/
    -In the same practice he also down blocked on the D tackle so that Shea Patterson could bootleg run into the end zone and it drew praise from NFL Network announcer Charles Davis.

    Harrison Bryant also drew praise in Mobile for his blocking. I saw one report from Tony Pauline touting it, and another story here.
    Harrison Bryant, TE, FAU
    : It was a great week for the tight ends down in Mobile, and Bryant really stood out today in the ground game. Whether it was from an inline position or as an H-back in an offset formation, Bryant showcased great blocking, which surely caught the eyes of evaluators. https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/25/21081715/nfl-draft-2020-senior-bowl-prospects-bengals-news

    Sure, a lot of college TE's may not be asked to block as much, but it doesn't mean they aren't able to or cant improve quickly with some coaching. Pinkney has the size and power to block.

    Brycen Hopkins has already been working on his blocking, with the help of his 2x Pro Bowl Offensive lineman and father Brad Hopkins.

    I will disagree that Randy Moss kid is the best blocker in the draft at the TE position and that none of these TE's warrant a 2nd round pick. I will go as far as saying I think at least 3 TE's will be off the board in the first 2 rounds. I think there are at least 6 TE in the draft that are better than last years 3rd round pick of the Packers, Jace Sternberger.
    You may very well be correct on all of this. My response was just to clarify why I posted that I don't see a round 2 TE for the Steelers needs. I see a position group of about a dozen(I mentioned 11 by name)TEs that all appear to be about the same guy on the football field. No need to jump on one in the 2nd when there IS top talent at other positions at #49 available. If the Steelers actually see one of these guys as the one they need at #49, I'm not going to go sit in the corner and pout about it either. Lots of upside potential here but that's all I see at this point moving to an NFL roster. Not a 'bad crop' but not a 'must have' crop either. Just my opinion. Go Steelers!

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Possibly the best two TEs in the league will line up today. Not to say a great TE leases to winning but it helps

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    Possibly the best two TEs in the league will line up today. Not to say a great TE leases to winning but it helps

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    Good thing we drafted a back up QB when Kittle was on the board.

    That one still hurts.

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    Good thing we drafted a back up QB when Kittle was on the board.

    That one still hurts.
    Yep

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    You may very well be correct on all of this. My response was just to clarify why I posted that I don't see a round 2 TE for the Steelers needs. I see a position group of about a dozen(I mentioned 11 by name)TEs that all appear to be about the same guy on the football field. No need to jump on one in the 2nd when there IS top talent at other positions at #49 available. If the Steelers actually see one of these guys as the one they need at #49, I'm not going to go sit in the corner and pout about it either. Lots of upside potential here but that's all I see at this point moving to an NFL roster. Not a 'bad crop' but not a 'must have' crop either. Just my opinion. Go Steelers!
    I agree that there isn't a "must have" player at all at #49. Will be lots of potential ways to go like O line, D line, WR, QB. I do however see multiple TE's that have 2nd round value and would vastly improve the Steelers receiving options and create mismatches vs ILB's and Safeties. I also see those guys as being willing enough blockers to be good in the run game.

    I honestly see Trautman as having the skills of Zach Ertz, but being a better blocker. Ertz was drafted at #35. Hopkins is kind of the receiving threat that Jordan Reed was IMO and Pinkney IMO compares to the skillset of Benjamin Watson, but I don't know that Watson was ever the receiving threat that is desired in todays NFL.

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Here’s the thing...

    We talk about missing out on Kittle. True, we did not draft him. But, neither did 31 other teams... for FOUR rounds.

    No one was clamoring to draft Kittle in R1 or even R2. Those who did want him suggested R3 (at the earliest) and most thought of Kittle as a R4 pick.

    My point:
    This upcoming draft’s group of TEs could be a crazy handful of nothin’ (one of my favorite Breaking Bad episodes)... or... there might be a “Kittle” drafted in R5.

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Here’s the thing...

    We talk about missing out on Kittle. True, we did not draft him. But, neither did 31 other teams... for FOUR rounds.

    No one was clamoring to draft Kittle in R1 or even R2. Those who did want him suggested R3 (at the earliest) and most thought of Kittle as a R4 pick.

    My point:
    This upcoming draft’s group of TEs could be a crazy handful of nothin’ (one of my favorite Breaking Bad episodes)... or... there might be a “Kittle” drafted in R5.
    This is pretty much my point as well. All or none of these guys can end up good/great. They all sort of seem like the same player at this point. Get the SS, OLB, or OL that we KNOW is going to be good/great rather than risk it at pick 49. I would consider WRs Pittman or Mims over one of the TEs at 49 too. It's not that I see the TE class as bad or good it's that I see it as a class of who knows. None of them are complete TEs. They are ALL NFL level projects.

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Ray Fittipaldo has us breaking Shoes' heart and only drafting a TE in the 7th round:

    7. TE Joey Magnifico, Memphis (6-4, 240)

    The Steelers have some big decisions to make at tight end. Vance McDonald likely returns as the starter despite his $7.1 cap hit. Do they bring back Nick Vannett, who is an unrestricted free agent, as the top backup? Or do they sign one in free agency? The tight end crop in the draft is top-heavy and there are more pass-catchers than complete tight ends that offer value as blockers. For that reason, the Steelers are likely to address the position in free agency. This is a depth pick to push Zach Gentry, last year’s fifth-round pick. Magnifico is a better receiver than a blocker, but he has the frame to add more weight and strength. He had 71 career catches and 12 touchdowns for the Tigers. He can compete with Gentry for the third tight end spot, or develop on the practice squad if he’s not ready for a spot on the active roster.

    https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...s/202002030008

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    This is pretty much my point as well. All or none of these guys can end up good/great. They all sort of seem like the same player at this point. Get the SS, OLB, or OL that we KNOW is going to be good/great rather than risk it at pick 49. I would consider WRs Pittman or Mims over one of the TEs at 49 too. It's not that I see the TE class as bad or good it's that I see it as a class of who knows. None of them are complete TEs. They are ALL NFL level projects.
    Bingo

    Imagine if I told Steelers fans that Colbert & Tomlin had “ignored” the tight end position until R5. People would be up in arms... until they saw George Kittle play. Mind you: most years, a tight end drafted on Day 3 is nothing more than camp fodder. But, occasionally, you can find a gem.

    In a similar vein, the Ravens drafted a TE in R1... instead of drafting Lamar Jackson. In turn, they then had to trade away a high pick in order to jump back up to get Jackson. After that... they drafted Mark Andrews (who is really good). How good? Well, I can’t even remember that first tight end’s name.

    SUMMATION:
    Tight end appears to be a position that is tough to evaluate.

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Here’s the thing...

    We talk about missing out on Kittle. True, we did not draft him. But, neither did 31 other teams... for FOUR rounds.

    No one was clamoring to draft Kittle in R1 or even R2. Those who did want him suggested R3 (at the earliest) and most thought of Kittle as a R4 pick.

    My point:
    This upcoming draft’s group of TEs could be a crazy handful of nothin’ (one of my favorite Breaking Bad episodes)... or... there might be a “Kittle” drafted in R5.

    Well there were were plenty of fans on this forum and others who knew he was special. I mean did the Steeler really believe Josh Dobbs was the "best player available"? If they did, they must have been drunk. But point taken!
    "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself--and you are
    the easiest person to fool."

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Well there were were plenty of fans on this forum and others who knew he was special. I mean did the Steeler really believe Josh Dobbs was the "best player available"? If they did, they must have been drunk. But point taken!
    No doubt that Dobbs was the wrong choice.

    But, as I stated earlier in this thread, no one was clamoring for Kittle in R2, let alone in R1. A very few thought maaaybe we take him in R3, but most thought that Day 3 was a good value.

    It reminds me of when Mike Shannahan was asked how he knew to wait to draft Terrell Davis in R6. Shannahan replied, "Knew???... if I had known how good Terrell was going to be, I would have drafted him in R1."

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    No doubt that Dobbs was the wrong choice.

    But, as I stated earlier in this thread, no one was clamoring for Kittle in R2, let alone in R1. A very few thought maaaybe we take him in R3, but most thought that Day 3 was a good value.

    It reminds me of when Mike Shannahan was asked how he knew to wait to draft Terrell Davis in R6. Shannahan replied, "Knew???... if I had known how good Terrell was going to be, I would have drafted him in R1."
    Full disclosure, when they picked Dobbs I was thinking they should have picked Jake Butt(if medical checked out), TE Jordan Leggett from Clemson or Desmond King S from Iowa. I missed the boat on Kittle, but to me King was a steal in the late 4th and a TE otherwise was a position of need.

    But, Dobbs looked like the 5th best QB at the Senior Bowl, which usually means he is a 6th round or later value.

    Some may think the Senior Bowl is too short of a week to evaluate, but my thoughts are that a QB can complete a lot of passes to WR's during the season, that are open by 5 yards, because the defenders covering them are going to be working at Enterprise Rent a Car or UPS. But, at the Senior Bowl, the defenders are going to be in the NFL and the WR's they are throwing to are open by 1 yard, so the mediocre QB can look good in a college season, but their weaknesses are exposed when the level of competition is good in Mobile.

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Even If Vance McDonald Bounces Back, Steelers Need Serious Help At TE

    By Alex Kozora
    Posted on February 3, 2020

    Let’s cut right to the chase.

    The Pittsburgh Steelers need to invest heavily in a tight end. They’re long overdue.

    to read rest of article:

    https://steelersdepot.com/2020/02/ev...us-help-at-te/

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Full disclosure, when they picked Dobbs I was thinking they should have picked Jake Butt(if medical checked out), TE Jordan Leggett from Clemson or Desmond King S from Iowa. I missed the boat on Kittle, but to me King was a steal in the late 4th and a TE otherwise was a position of need.

    But, Dobbs looked like the 5th best QB at the Senior Bowl, which usually means he is a 6th round or later value.

    Some may think the Senior Bowl is too short of a week to evaluate, but my thoughts are that a QB can complete a lot of passes to WR's during the season, that are open by 5 yards, because the defenders covering them are going to be working at Enterprise Rent a Car or UPS. But, at the Senior Bowl, the defenders are going to be in the NFL and the WR's they are throwing to are open by 1 yard, so the mediocre QB can look good in a college season, but their weaknesses are exposed when the level of competition is good in Mobile.
    Watt & JuJu: it would have been hard to argue with drafting Kittle instead of them.

    Sutton: my favorite pick in this draft (value-wise). I loved the pick then, and I love it now.

    Conner: even at the time, this was a questionable pick; lots of debating about this pick. Bell was still here, but one could argue for the need since we rarely had Bell fir the playoffs (and had to rely on garbage-pile signings late in the season). I remember this being a controversial pick. This is where (I’m guessing) that people were lobbying for Kittle.

    Dobbs: this is where I know that some wanted Kittle. Others wanted Butt. Regardless of the name, Friday night was spent lining for a TE. (Dwins was lobbying for Desmond King.) Then, it was Dobbs.

    SIDE-NOTE:
    Speaking of Butts... when they were showing the “NFL 100 players” list on the sidelines, and they announced “Dick Butkis” my son LOST IT!!!

    butt... kiss...
    butt... kiss...
    butt... kiss...

  22. #82
    Senior Member Array title="LloydWoodson is a glorious beacon of light"> LloydWoodson's Avatar

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Will McDonald be back next year?

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    What about olsen for a year?..

    KNOCKIN ON 7'S DOOR!

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Quote Originally Posted by LloydWoodson View Post
    Will McDonald be back next year?
    I hope not. He really hasn't done anything in his career but get overpaid based upon "potential", but then done minimal in the way of "production".

    And fans will complain about guys like Dupree, Woodley or Lawrence Timmons, but all of those guys have done more with their time in the NFL that McDonald has done with his. IMO, time to move on and stop throwing good money at mediocre TE.

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Rumor out of sunny San Diego...

    Hunter Henry to be franchise tagged.

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    Re: TE is a QB's Best Friend??

    Steelers 2020 Free Agent Market Watch: The Tight Ends

    BTSC takes a look at the top free agents at each position whether or not they are in the Steelers price range. Here are the Tight Ends.

    By Bryan Anthony Davis
    Feb 14, 2020

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...ebron-nfl-news

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