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Thread: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I am not sure what it says about the NFL, but I find it noteworthy that the same league that will excuse domestic abusers, alcoholics, drug addicts, dog fighters, violent offenders, steroid users, and murderers has an inability to cope with one person loudly expressing opinions that run counter to their own. I always wondered where the line would be with what owners and the league would put up with if a guy could play (even a little bit) and I think we found it.

    This is not an attempt to rise to the defense of Kaepernick. I just find it all darkly humorous and can not believe how seriously upset and agitated folks on all sides of this issue get.
    Those problem players don't bring a constant media circus to the team. Kap actively seeks the circus . No team wants that nonsense. Eric Rees kneeled just as much still does. Doesn't cause a mess for his team , has a job.

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I am not sure what it says about the NFL, but I find it noteworthy that the same league that will excuse domestic abusers, alcoholics, drug addicts, dog fighters, violent offenders, steroid users, and murderers has an inability to cope with one person loudly expressing opinions that run counter to their own. I always wondered where the line would be with what owners and the league would put up with if a guy could play (even a little bit) and I think we found it.

    This is not an attempt to rise to the defense of Kaepernick. I just find it all darkly humorous and can not believe how seriously upset and agitated folks on all sides of this issue get.
    I'll tell you exactly why I think that is.

    It's because on a fundamental level, most people just don't care very much about whether players commit ordinary street crimes. Never have, never will. And rightly so.

    The relationship between fans and players is entirely superficial. You don't interact with the player at all. He is a character on TV, no different from an actor, or if you see a game in person, no different from a rock musician. Your entire interaction with him is at arm's length. So unless you either have a borderline unhealthy obsession, or the player did something completely egregious (like rape or murder), what kind of dude that person is when he's off-stage doesn't affect much. You kind of raise an eyebrow, go "hmm, I didn't know about that," but at the end of the day, if the guy is doing something worth watching, who really cares.

    On the other hand, if the player, or actor, or musician, turned to the crowd and said "fuck you Cleveland, your city is disgusting, and I think you're all stupid and I despise people like you," well that might affect your support of that individual quite a bit more directly.

    Like - if I went into my favorite burrito shop one day and heard that the owner got a DUI and was cheating on his wife, I'd probably say, "Well that sucks, now give me a #8 meal with carne asada."

    On the other hand, if I showed up at the same burrito shop one day and there was a banner in the window that said "FUCK WHITE PEOPLE," then I'd probably turn around and go somewhere else.

    The difference being that in the first case, my relationship with them was purely transactional; do they have something that I want. What the guy does on his own time has no bearing on that. Whereas in the second case, they have taken action to move it outside of a transactional relationship by sending a message directly to me. Ok, well now you've made it not just "do I like the burritos here," but "do I like you or not." Same idea.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I'll tell you exactly why I think that is.

    It's because on a fundamental level, most people just don't care very much about whether players commit ordinary street crimes. Never have, never will. And rightly so.

    The relationship between fans and players is entirely superficial. You don't interact with the player at all. He is a character on TV, no different from an actor, or if you see a game in person, no different from a rock musician. Your entire interaction with him is at arm's length. So unless you either have a borderline unhealthy obsession, or the player did something completely egregious (like rape or murder), what kind of dude that person is when he's off-stage doesn't affect much. You kind of raise an eyebrow, go "hmm, I didn't know about that," but at the end of the day, if the guy is doing something worth watching, who really cares.

    On the other hand, if the player, or actor, or musician, turned to the crowd and said "fuck you Cleveland, your city is disgusting, and I think you're all stupid and I despise people like you," well that might affect your support of that individual quite a bit more directly.

    Like - if I went into my favorite burrito shop one day and heard that the owner got a DUI and was cheating on his wife, I'd probably say, "Well that sucks, now give me a #8 meal with carne asada."

    On the other hand, if I showed up at the same burrito shop one day and there was a banner in the window that said "FUCK WHITE PEOPLE," then I'd probably turn around and go somewhere else.

    The difference being that in the first case, my relationship with them was purely transactional; do they have something that I want. Whereas in the second case, they have taken action to move it outside of a transactional relationship and send a message directly to me. Ok, well now you've made it not just "do I like the burritos here," but "do I like you or not." Same idea.
    Absolutely get that and I believe I totally understand what you are saying. I just have never been able to empathize/sympathize with that perspective on fame/celebrity/status or whatever the best term for it is. I just don't and can't take any of this seriously or personal. I totally think some athletes on teams I root for a pretty terrible human beings - don't care. Some athletes hold political views I agree with, some I disagree with -- don't care.

    I am not saying that people shouldn't and couldn't care deeply and passionately about these issues, I just have a hard time wrapping my head around it. I can't get too emotionally invested in what these dudes do or don't do.

    Like in the burrito shop example you laid out, if the burritos were awesome enough and the shop owner/employees wasn't actively belligerent or hostile, I might still consider getting a burrito there. I mean, probably not but I might still consider it. And I certainly wouldn't begin an irate internet campaign to get their lease revoked or whatever.

    Anyway, none of this matters. And I guess I just think that people take it a little bit too seriously.

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    Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Has very little to do with what he did or didn’t do as far as kneeling.

    Bottom line is it’s all a rouse. Kappernick is an activist. This gets him back into the news. This gets him to the front page. This was an attention grabber. He doesn’t want to play football. He had a chance to play in the NFL...he opted out. He had an opportunity to play in the CFL, he refused. He had a chance to play in the XFL, he refused.

    News flash: HE DOESN’T WANT TO PLAY FOOTBALL!!

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Absolutely get that and I believe I totally understand what you are saying. I just have never been able to empathize/sympathize with that perspective on fame/celebrity/status or whatever the best term for it is. I just don't and can't take any of this seriously or personal. I totally think some athletes on teams I root for a pretty terrible human beings - don't care. Some athletes hold political views I agree with, some I disagree with -- don't care.

    I am not saying that people shouldn't and couldn't care deeply and passionately about these issues, I just have a hard time wrapping my head around it. I can't get too emotionally invested in what these dudes do or don't do.

    Like in the burrito shop example you laid out, if the burritos were awesome enough and the shop owner/employees wasn't actively belligerent or hostile, I might still consider getting a burrito there. I mean, probably not but I might still consider it. And I certainly wouldn't begin an irate internet campaign to get their lease revoked or whatever.

    Anyway, none of this matters. And I guess I just think that people take it a little bit too seriously.
    Well, there are all levels of reaction. If the burrito shop put up that sign, some people would just ignore it and eat there anyway. A few would get angry and demand that the owner be "punished," and ultimately would come off as insufferable know-it-alls themselves. Some would go, "You know what, I'm just going to skip this place without making a big deal about it."

    It's the last group that the NFL is worried about. It's the middle group that draws the attention and gets people saying "Why is it such a big deal to them, why can't they just get over it??"

    And the last group gets lumped in with that, when really their reaction is not "I'm outraged! Make this guy do what I say!" but rather "The political lecture is a turn-off and I'd rather just avoid it if that's the choice you're giving me."

    Like, if the Steelers signed Kaepernick? I'd probably still watch the games, but not because I was rooting for him. A lot would depend on winning, and winning a lot. In a season like this, my interest level would wane pretty quickly.

    Picture it like your favorite baseball team signed Barry Bonds, knowing full well about the steroids and toxic personality ... if he put you in contention for the World Series, maybe you'd hold your nose and cheer for the team - but if the team was in last place, you'd stay even further away. That's kind of how I see it. And Kaepernick is not likely to carry a team like that, either, so who's going to take a flyer on that? No thanks is what I'd say.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    It's not about kneeling, it's about the fact that Colin Kaepernick demands the spotlight and constantly tries to draw attention to himself. He's a walking distraction and media circus and he wants that. If he really wanted a job so badly, he would have just accepted the venue without any questions or complaints, but no he wanted to create extra drama, change the venue, put himself in front of cameras and then wears a Kunta Kinte shirt to make more headlines. NFL teams don't want distractions/locker room cancers even from star NFL players, and can't be expected to tolerate that from an average player just to satisfy some "woke" sjws (some of whom don't even watch football outside of the Super Bowl at a party and can't name a player in the NFL other than Tom Brady and maybe Aaron Rodgers)

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I'll tell you exactly why I think that is.

    It's because on a fundamental level, most people just don't care very much about whether players commit ordinary street crimes. Never have, never will. And rightly so.

    The relationship between fans and players is entirely superficial. You don't interact with the player at all. He is a character on TV, no different from an actor, or if you see a game in person, no different from a rock musician. Your entire interaction with him is at arm's length. So unless you either have a borderline unhealthy obsession, or the player did something completely egregious (like rape or murder), what kind of dude that person is when he's off-stage doesn't affect much. You kind of raise an eyebrow, go "hmm, I didn't know about that," but at the end of the day, if the guy is doing something worth watching, who really cares.

    On the other hand, if the player, or actor, or musician, turned to the crowd and said "fuck you Cleveland, your city is disgusting, and I think you're all stupid and I despise people like you," well that might affect your support of that individual quite a bit more directly.

    Like - if I went into my favorite burrito shop one day and heard that the owner got a DUI and was cheating on his wife, I'd probably say, "Well that sucks, now give me a #8 meal with carne asada."

    On the other hand, if I showed up at the same burrito shop one day and there was a banner in the window that said "FUCK WHITE PEOPLE," then I'd probably turn around and go somewhere else.

    The difference being that in the first case, my relationship with them was purely transactional; do they have something that I want. What the guy does on his own time has no bearing on that. Whereas in the second case, they have taken action to move it outside of a transactional relationship by sending a message directly to me. Ok, well now you've made it not just "do I like the burritos here," but "do I like you or not." Same idea.
    It’s like the Curb Your Enthusiasm episode with the anti Semitic chicken. Larry ate there anyway, because the chicken was so good... and he got to bang the hot Palestinian woman who thought he was on her side of the debate.

    I really don’t think what Kaep did was all that bad. He wasn’t ant white people or anti military... he was anti police brutality, and he tried to make people more aware. He succeeded.

    I also agree that he probably doesn’t prioritize football at this point and teams have every right to avoid him if he’s bad for business... and isn’t a good enough player to make up for it.

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    It’s like the Curb Your Enthusiasm episode with the anti Semitic chicken. Larry ate there anyway, because the chicken was so good... and he got to bang the hot Palestinian woman who thought he was on her side of the debate.

    I really don’t think what Kaep did was all that bad. He wasn’t ant white people or anti military... he was anti police brutality, and he tried to make people more aware. He succeeded.

    I also agree that he probably doesn’t prioritize football at this point and teams have every right to avoid him if he’s bad for business... and isn’t a good enough player to make up for it.
    The part in bold is the only thing I really take issue with.

    People were already "aware" of the issue. It was EVERYWHERE. I doubt he made a single person aware of it who didn't already know.

    What he did a great job of, however, was drawing attention to himself. And he primarily did that because of his extraordinarily poor - and I mean, just mind-blowingly dumb - choice of how to deliver his message.

    For all the people (you know who you are) about to jump in with the rhetoric of "omg paid patriotism, NFL didn't have national anthem rule until 2009!" - the point is that he chose something that would piss a lot of people off because he was hijacking something that had a separate, well-established other meaning.

    He was a racial agitator, plain and simple. I guess he was good at THAT, which is a whole lot different from "raising awareness" in any kind of positive sense.

    Those same people can also spare us the tired Tommie Smith / John Carlos / Civil Rights Movement parallels - I couldn't think of a worse comparison if I tried. Like ... those people were actually fighting for something other than themselves.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    He wasn’t ant white people or anti military... he was anti police brutality, and he tried to make people more aware. He succeeded.
    Any average American is aware that the police is flawed. If Colin were interested in fixing "police brutality", he would work with the police and try to fix broken minority communities and families, to prevent these kinds of problems.

    Like Reverend Al and fellow clown LeBron, that doesn't happen. Kaep is a paid actor who stokes racial divide for profit. Gotta give him credit, though. It actually works, because there is always a group of suckers out there who buy it.

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    If Kaepernick wants to do politics or be an activist, he should go for that. He is free to do so. But then he would need a concept.

    It's easy just being against something. Trying to come up with solutions is much more difficult and it's even more to implement theoretical concepts.

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I am not sure what it says about the NFL, but I find it noteworthy that the same league that will excuse domestic abusers, alcoholics, drug addicts, dog fighters, violent offenders, steroid users, and murderers has an inability to cope with one person loudly expressing opinions that run counter to their own. I always wondered where the line would be with what owners and the league would put up with if a guy could play (even a little bit) and I think we found it.

    This is not an attempt to rise to the defense of Kaepernick. I just find it all darkly humorous and can not believe how seriously upset and agitated folks on all sides of this issue get.
    The bolded part is where I disagree. It's not about whether the NFL agrees or disagrees, but rather whether his behavior is hurting revenue. There is no business in the world that will tolerate an employee who drives customers away.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    The bolded part is where I disagree. It's not about whether the NFL agrees or disagrees, but rather whether his behavior is hurting revenue. There is no business in the world that will tolerate an employee who drives customers away.
    I have no interest in going down this particular rabbit hole again. But I will point out that "domestic abusers, alcoholics, drug addicts, dog fighters, violent offenders, steroid users, and murderers" have all turned customers away from the NFL. I know more people who don't watch because of that than I do people who care one way or the other about the kneeling. And my perspective could be totally skewed on that.

    I just find it interesting that this is the issue that fans, media, and the league chooses to draw their line in the sand on. I personally find the outrage and ranting that this particular issue generates to be so out of proportion to the actual events that, for me, it crosses the line into ridiculousness all the way around. Again, I want to stress that I am not attempting to convince anyone of anything or counter any of the viewpoints previously presented on this issue, simply express my own warped take.

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I have no interest in going down this particular rabbit hole again. But I will point out that "domestic abusers, alcoholics, drug addicts, dog fighters, violent offenders, steroid users, and murderers" have all turned customers away from the NFL. I know more people who don't watch because of that than I do people who care one way or the other about the kneeling. And my perspective could be totally skewed on that.

    I just find it interesting that this is the issue that fans, media, and the league chooses to draw their line in the sand on. I personally find the outrage and ranting that this particular issue generates to be so out of proportion to the actual events that, for me, it crosses the line into ridiculousness all the way around. Again, I want to stress that I am not attempting to convince anyone of anything or counter any of the viewpoints previously presented on this issue, simply express my own warped take.
    I won't go into another lengthy description, but like I said before ... it's the difference between what some TV actor does when he's off-camera, or the actor stepping out of character, turning to the camera and talking directly to the audience. One is kind of "ok, whatever," the other is part of the show. So that's why people have different reactions.

    I personally don't know anyone who actually stopped watching football because the players are unlikable off the field.

    However, I DO know quite a few people who were never really football fans, but love to bitch about the behavior of football players. They didn't watch football before, and they don't watch football now either ... but now it's because they are "taking a stand."

    See? They didn't even have to do anything, and now they are politically active and racking up the woke points like gangbusters. Maybe they bitch it about it every weekend on Facebook. Slacktivism at its finest. But really, those people don't care about football, they are just the kind of people who love to bitch about things.

    You don't really want those people as fans, and they won't do you any good either.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I won't go into another lengthy description, but like I said before ... it's the difference between what some TV actor does when he's off-camera, or the actor stepping out of character, turning to the camera and talking directly to the audience. One is kind of "ok, whatever," the other is part of the show. So that's why people have different reactions.

    I personally don't know anyone who actually stopped watching football because the players are unlikable off the field.

    However, I DO know quite a few people who were never really football fans, but love to bitch about the behavior of football players. They didn't watch football before, and they don't watch football now either ... but now it's because they are "taking a stand."

    See? They didn't even have to do anything, and now they are politically active and racking up the woke points like gangbusters. Maybe they bitch it about it every weekend on Facebook. Slacktivism at its finest. But really, those people don't care about football, they are just the kind of people who love to bitch about things.

    You don't really want those people as fans, and they won't do you any good either.
    You're not wrong. I could make arguments about the faux outrage on the other side of things being the equivalent of slacktivism and easy woke points. The number of people who are really quick to loudly express angry thoughts about troops, veterans, and the flag on social media and then do nothing in daily life to support or further those causes is just as equal as the other side.

    It is really just a bunch of people making loud angry noises about whatever things they claim or want to be seen feeling the most strongly about. And it has reached the point where my only response is to just laugh at all involved. Not out of a sense of superiority, but out a of a sense of resignation that it has all gotten so silly. The internet has allowed people to be even more easily manipulated and pandered to than ever before, but we all just don't see it on a consistent basis.

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I just find it interesting that this is the issue that fans, media, and the league chooses to draw their line in the sand on.
    Probably because nobody's abusing his girlfriend, running dogfighting rings, etc. in his uniform on national TV. It's not all that difficult to figure out; a company can have unsavory employees. They just can't have employees who insult the customers at work.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The number of people who are really quick to loudly express angry thoughts about troops, veterans, and the flag on social media and then do nothing in daily life to support or further those causes is just as equal as the other side.

    .
    So true. People love to bitch about things, but if you ask them for a solution or to work on doing something to be part of the solution to that issue they bitch about....they often get tired and need a nap.

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Tell this Anti-American to go to CHINA and start his own team !!!

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    It's not about Kaepernick kneeling, it's two factors working together. One, he wants to be a media circus, a locker room distraction. I've already discussed Kaepernick as an attention hound. Two a guy is average at his best and now he is 32 years old 3 years removed from last playing. He's not worth it as a player, he simply is not worth it. Eric Reid knelt alongside Kaep and he has been making some noise in defense of Kaep and he still has a job. People on the left want to make it about kneeling and want to make Kaep a martyr when strictly in football terms, he would not be a good signing

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    If Kaepernick truly wants back in the NFL, there is a simple solution:

    -get high
    -beat a woman
    -beat a child

    The CBA clearly states that any player who commits one of those acts has to be given a second (and third) chance.

    Considering how many bridges he’s burned, Kaep should probably do all three (just to be sure).

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    If Kaepernick truly wanted back in the league, he wouldn't have shown up in a Kunta Kinte t-shirt. That's like Leveon Bell showing up in a "4-20" t shirt, or Kareem Hunt showing up in a wife beater.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    The part in bold is the only thing I really take issue with.

    People were already "aware" of the issue. It was EVERYWHERE. I doubt he made a single person aware of it who didn't already know.

    What he did a great job of, however, was drawing attention to himself. And he primarily did that because of his extraordinarily poor - and I mean, just mind-blowingly dumb - choice of how to deliver his message.

    For all the people (you know who you are) about to jump in with the rhetoric of "omg paid patriotism, NFL didn't have national anthem rule until 2009!" - the point is that he chose something that would piss a lot of people off because he was hijacking something that had a separate, well-established other meaning.

    He was a racial agitator, plain and simple. I guess he was good at THAT, which is a whole lot different from "raising awareness" in any kind of positive sense.

    Those same people can also spare us the tired Tommie Smith / John Carlos / Civil Rights Movement parallels - I couldn't think of a worse comparison if I tried. Like ... those people were actually fighting for something other than themselves.
    I understand what you’re saying, and I’m not on team KAEP, and I don’t think he’s really interested in playing football. And to be clear, I don’t think NFL teams owe him anything or are doing him dirty. They are rational actors who have plenty of real world reasons not to sign him. He’s probably not nearly good enough to counteract the negatives that come with him.

    But I also agree with Mojouw about the outrage at the kneeling. People should have just been curious why he was doing it. If the cause interested them, they could look into it further. If not, just consider it a kind of silly thing and move on. But for all of Kaep’s flaws, arrogance, selfishness... whatever, I honestly don’t think he was truly hurting anyone or disrespecting the troops.

    If we’d all treated it as no big deal, it would be no big deal. I love this country. I love what the flag stands for. I don’t need everyone on earth to stand for it or salute it or take part in any rituals for it to represent what it does. We could have shown Kaep that he’s wrong about the country by simply accepting his protest and not freaking out about it.

    If you want to be cynical about Kaep and his motives for attention, then the freak out itself played right into his hands. It only helped fuel the fire.

    Just chilling and saying, “okay. I see what you’re saying. Interesting. I don’t agree with the specifics and I’m not crazy about the way you’re going about it, but I’m not gonna hate you or freak out either.” seems to me the best way to go.

  22. #52
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    HS,
    Right, but the league can't look at it that way. Me personally, I don't care if I happen to agree with the message or not. I take umbrage at public figures (politicians excluded) who feel entitled to abuse their visibility to push an agenda, any agenda. He's not some ivory- tower elite with some obligation to bestow his pearls of wisdom on the unwashed masses, he's just a football player. Therefore he should STFU about his 'cause', play football, and do that other crap on his own time. But that's just me...
    It's not about how you or I personally respond to such silliness, but rather how fans in general respond. Ratings and revenue dropped because of what he started, and they can't have that. The league doesn't need the PR/ financial headache and the teams don't need that sort of cancer in their locker room.
    Kaepernick has just guaranteed that nobody will touch him with a 10 foot pole, and IMO he deserves it.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  23. #53
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    HS,
    Right, but the league can't look at it that way. Me personally, I don't care if I happen to agree with the message or not. I take umbrage at public figures (politicians excluded) who feel entitled to abuse their visibility to push an agenda, any agenda. He's not some ivory- tower elite with some obligation to bestow his pearls of wisdom on the unwashed masses, he's just a football player. Therefore he should STFU about his 'cause', play football, and do that other crap on his own time. But that's just me...
    It's not about how you or I personally respond to such silliness, but rather how fans in general respond. Ratings and revenue dropped because of what he started, and they can't have that. The league doesn't need the PR/ financial headache and the teams don't need that sort of cancer in their locker room.
    Kaepernick has just guaranteed that nobody will touch him with a 10 foot pole, and IMO he deserves it.
    I totally agree with everything you said.

    I feel the same way, but when a celebrity annoys me with his cause or whatever, I discuss is with my friends, maybe discuss it online a little bit, but I don’t let it affect me ultimately being entertained by that celebrity. I certainly don’t get fired up about it to the point that it actually feeds into the narrative that the annoying celebrity is pushing.

    But like you said, that’s just me.

    As far as your comments about the NFL being a business that should do whatever it feels is best for its brand... 100% agree.

  24. #54
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    But I also agree with Mojouw about the outrage at the kneeling. People should have just been curious why he was doing it. If the cause interested them, they could look into it further. If not, just consider it a kind of silly thing and move on. But for all of Kaep’s flaws, arrogance, selfishness... whatever, I honestly don’t think he was truly hurting anyone or disrespecting the troops.

    If we’d all treated it as no big deal, it would be no big deal. I love this country. I love what the flag stands for. I don’t need everyone on earth to stand for it or salute it or take part in any rituals for it to represent what it does. We could have shown Kaep that he’s wrong about the country by simply accepting his protest and not freaking out about it.
    To be truly freaking out about it is a bit overboard, I agree, but I don't think anyone is obligated to just ignore it and move on if they don't agree with it, either.

    Like, say I was at a restaurant eating, and some guy sat down across from me and started farting, I think I'd be plenty justified in saying "what a fuckin jerk." Coincidentally, that's also roughly how much I appreciate random losers trying to shove their politics down my throat; they might as well be sitting there farting and stinking the place out.

    Then if the restaurant manager told the guy, "Dude, you're irritating a lot of people, knock it off," and the guy just smiled and kept on ripping farts, well eventually they're going to throw him out.

    Anyway, for me at least, it's not so much that he is sending a message I disagree with, it's that he is forcing politics into a football game at all. DICK MOVE. And the time at which he chose to do it made it even more of a dick move.

    It doesn't make me say, "omg what an outrage, boycott the league!!!" but it sure does make me go, "fuck THAT guy."

    And then you do have a lot of people, like millions of them, who actually are/were in the armed forces or have immediate family who are, and might be legitimately pissed off at that. If I was a cop, I'd probably be pissed off too, and there are a lot of people in that boat. You don't want to piss off your customers, it's bad business. That's why they always say the only outward political stance it makes sense for a business to take is no political stance. Kaepernick tried to force them to take one, and they told him to fuck off. I would too.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  25. #55
    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Where did he sign?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  26. #56
    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Where did he sign?
    My guess will be the Patriots for 2020. Bill will turn him into a Lamar Jackson type QB.

  27. #57
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    To be truly freaking out about it is a bit overboard, I agree, but I don't think anyone is obligated to just ignore it and move on if they don't agree with it, either.

    Like, say I was at a restaurant eating, and some guy sat down across from me and started farting, I think I'd be plenty justified in saying "what a fuckin jerk." Coincidentally, that's also roughly how much I appreciate random losers trying to shove their politics down my throat; they might as well be sitting there farting and stinking the place out.

    Then if the restaurant manager told the guy, "Dude, you're irritating a lot of people, knock it off," and the guy just smiled and kept on ripping farts, well eventually they're going to throw him out.

    Anyway, for me at least, it's not so much that he is sending a message I disagree with, it's that he is forcing politics into a football game at all. DICK MOVE. And the time at which he chose to do it made it even more of a dick move.

    It doesn't make me say, "omg what an outrage, boycott the league!!!" but it sure does make me go, "fuck THAT guy."

    And then you do have a lot of people, like millions of them, who actually are/were in the armed forces or have immediate family who are, and might be legitimately pissed off at that. If I was a cop, I'd probably be pissed off too, and there are a lot of people in that boat. You don't want to piss off your customers, it's bad business. That's why they always say the only outward political stance it makes sense for a business to take is no political stance. Kaepernick tried to force them to take one, and they told him to fuck off. I would too.
    Yeah, I think we ultimately agree about a lot of it, especially about the NFL being absolutely justified in considering Kaep a business liability that isn’t good enough to overcome that baggage.

    I could be wrong, but I don’t think it was Kaep’s intent to ever upset the military. In fact he asked someone in the military if there was a way to honor the flag while still making a statement. The military guy said kneeling shows reverence (and gets people to ask why you’re doing it, which is the point) while sitting on the bench is more disrespectful.

    Now I admit I might be wrongly giving Kaep the benefit of the doubt there, but I do wish the whole thing hadn’t upset so many people who really weren’t being intentionally disrespected.

    But did Kaep have the RIGHT to protest at work? In general I’d say no, but the NFL has a CBA so it complicates things. I don’t know if there was a specific provision in the CBA requiring players to stand for the pledge. I think, if anything, that’s the one thing the NFL probably should not make players do. Any more than they should make players take part in prayer.

    But private businesses can have whatever contracts with their unions that they negotiate. It was probably a gray area.

    Anyway, once he made his initial point, and his team asked him to stop doing it, he should have stopped, and continued all further activism on his own time.

  28. #58
    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

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    Re: Steelers A No-Show at Colin Kaepernick's Circus/Workout

    Krapperdick doesn’t care who he upsets as long as he’s “front page” news. Funny how his shoe is coming close to being released...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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