Minkah Fitzpatrick

[pczach]

Exactly! Fitzpatrick is the BPA with the Steelers 2020 #1 pick. Anybody complaining about Fitzpatrick only needs to think of Mike Mitchell coming in to be the 2nd guy in on a tackle for 20 yard reception and celebrating like he won the Super Bowl.

Some will bitch about having a secondary of Mike Mitchell, Will Allen, Antowan Blake, Brandon Boykin, Will Gay.....yet bitch worse the Steelers gave up a draft pick to add Fitzpatrick to a secondary of Haden, Nelson, Sutton, Hilton, Edmunds.

I agree.

I have a hard time understanding how anyone can think it was not a great trade.

[SteelMember]

Totally worth it... even before he played a snap here, imo. His play to date just helps folks recognize the value they got for the hole they had to inevitably fill eventually.

I don't think they would have looked at 1st round QB anyway. It would have been defense again. So, as others have said, we just got our pick early and don't have to pay the bonus.

MFF was picked 11th overall, and worth that. If we can maintain at least middle of the road by season's end, we'd have been looking at 16th or 17th. As of today, that's where we sit... A grade and good value, imo.

[steelreserve]

The trade will be tied to Ben's immediate future. If Mason isn't the answer (which I'm leaning towards) and Ben can play another 1-3 years (allowing us to draft a QB) then the trade is a win. If Mason shits the bed and Ben turns into Bradshaw 2.0 (elbow ending career) then the trade is a wash since Fitz can play.

Even in the worst case (Ben can't play anymore, Rudolph sucks), all this turns into is "We waited a year to draft a quarterback, in a year when there weren't any quarterbacks." Fitzpatrick is probably better than whoever we would've gotten with the 18th-20th pick, which is about where we will end up if it's a borderline wild-card season, which is about what it's looking like.

[HollywoodSteel]

I only had to get through your first sentence. There is a very easy answer.

Trade. Down. Pick up some mediocre team's first and third. Then next year, bundle them with your first to go get the guy you want. It's not a one-draft scenario here.

I think if your nightmare scenario happens, where Rudolph sucks and Ben sucks next year, we’ll have that high draft pick in 2021 anyway. And we’ll still have a great piece of the puzzle in Minkah.

I understand what you’re saying. I don’t think you’re nuts, but I do not think we were going to use our 2020 pick, or bundle picks, to get the third or fourth best QB in 2020 when Ben is coming back. It’s just not going to happen. And they also weren’t going to use the 2020 pick to get a better pick in 2021. Only tanking teams do something like that, and again Ben is coming back so the Steelers won’t assume he’ll suck and that they’ll need to implement your plan.

Any way you slice it, our 2020 first round pick would have been used in 2020 and not on a QB. So that being the case, Minkah is a reasonable pick as the BPA. Without having to pay his bonus.

So even if in theory there’s a situation where they COULD do what you’re saying, it would involve having no faith in Ben BEFORE they see him play in 2020. There’s no way they would make that assumption.

Tomlin is already on a “warm” seat. He isn’t thinking the way you are. He’s gonna give himself the best chance at the best possible record in 2020. That means counting on a QB he already has on the team to do the job. That’s either Ben, or the unlikely scenario where Rudolph is so good he takes Ben’s job.

[Fire Goodell]

Even in the worst case (Ben can't play anymore, Rudolph sucks), all this turns into is "We waited a year to draft a quarterback, in a year when there weren't any quarterbacks." Fitzpatrick is probably better than whoever we would've gotten with the 18th-20th pick, which is about where we will end up if it's a borderline wild-card season, which is about what it's looking like.

Yep Mid-late first round is where you're more likely to get a Bud Dupree or Jarvis Jones than a player like Minkah

[st33lersguy]

So far he's proven his value, he's been a key factor in multiple wins this season and in turn it's lowered the value of the round 1 pick. At the time it was risky and could have backfired, but I am glad the best-case scenario has occurred the first 6 games

[Craic]

I think if your nightmare scenario happens, where Rudolph sucks and Ben sucks next year, we’ll have that high draft pick in 2021 anyway. And we’ll still have a great piece of the puzzle in Minkah.

I understand what you’re saying. I don’t think you’re nuts, but I do not think we were going to use our 2020 pick, or bundle picks, to get the third or fourth best QB in 2020 when Ben is coming back. It’s just not going to happen. And they also weren’t going to use the 2020 pick to get a better pick in 2021. Only tanking teams do something like that, and again Ben is coming back so the Steelers won’t assume he’ll suck and that they’ll need to implement your plan.

Any way you slice it, our 2020 first round pick would have been used in 2020 and not on a QB. So that being the case, Minkah is a reasonable pick as the BPA. Without having to pay his bonus.

So even if in theory there’s a situation where they COULD do what you’re saying, it would involve having no faith in Ben BEFORE they see him play in 2020. There’s no way they would make that assumption.

Tomlin is already on a “warm” seat. He isn’t thinking the way you are. He’s gonna give himself the best chance at the best possible record in 2020. That means counting on a QB he already has on the team to do the job. That’s either Ben, or the unlikely scenario where Rudolph is so good he takes Ben’s job.

And, that may be very true as well. For me, it was more along the lines of, "Do I want to gamble having a few years with no true QB or gamble a few years with the defense as is." In that scenario, I choose the QB. But, as St33ler has said, and others, Minkah is working out very well. And, it looks like we're not getting that high pick anyway. So, in hindsight, they made the right choice.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Of course the case could be made if we didn't trade for that dang Minkah. We could be sitting at 2-6 now and a good chance to get a top QB in the first 5 picks of the draft.

[Craic]

Of course the case could be made if we didn't trade for that dang Minkah. We could be sitting at 2-6 now and a good chance to get a top QB in the first 5 picks of the draft.

True. Very true. And, that's what keep drawing back to that choice. But on the other side, while Mason isn't lighting anything yup, He's still giving the team a chance each week with Minkah helping on the defense. All in all, it really is one of those choices that has a lot of risk on both ends. Glad it worked out as it has.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Of course the case could be made if we didn't trade for that dang Minkah. We could be sitting at 2-6 now and a good chance to get a top QB in the first 5 picks of the draft.

Steelers were never gonna suck as bad as the Dolphins, Bengals or Jets were. There isn't going to be a QB worthy of the 6th to 10th pick in the draft that is a franchise QB, so the trade was a no brainer.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Steelers were never gonna suck as bad as the Dolphins, Bengals or Jets were. There isn't going to be a QB worthy of the 6th to 10th pick in the draft that is a franchise QB, so the trade was a no brainer.

I would do the trade 10 times over and the right call.

[steelreserve]

Of course the case could be made if we didn't trade for that dang Minkah. We could be sitting at 2-6 now and a good chance to get a top QB in the first 5 picks of the draft.

This year it would be more like get a shitty QB in the first 5 picks in the draft.

[teegre]

Of course the case could be made if we didn't trade for that dang Minkah. We could be sitting at 2-6 now and a good chance to get a top QB in the first 5 picks of the draft.

True... but...

Rudolph + Fitzpatrick > QB20 + Davis


(subtext: The ‘20 draft class for QBs is good, but not great.)

[tube517]

True... but...

Rudolph + Fitzpatrick > QB20 + Davis


(subtext: The ‘20 draft class for QBs is good, but not great.)

And Davis is likely gone in 2020 (even before MFF was traded here) so then you would have to draft a meh QB and get another safety in free agency or draft. MFF is the 2020 pick and is a starter at a CHEAP price.

[Six Rings]

He's playing like an ALL PRO. We got him very young and cheap for a few years. His character is excellent as noted by Nick Saban and Tomlin.

IMO Fitzpatrick is worth a top 3 draft pick because he's a sure thing and will be more valuable than any player taken in 2020 unless he's turnouts to be a franchise QB, or stud pass rusher...long odd on picking either in the top ten of the draft.

[teegre]

And Davis is likely gone in 2020 (even before MFF was traded here) so then you would have to draft a meh QB and get another safety in free agency or draft. MFF is the 2020 pick and is a starter at a CHEAP price.

Points #2 and #3 (of why it’s a good trade).

- - - Updated - - -

He's playing like an ALL PRO. We got him very young and cheap for a few years. His character is excellent as noted by Nick Saban and Tomlin.

IMO Fitzpatrick is worth a top 3 draft pick because he's a sure thing and will be more valuable than any player taken in 2020 unless he's turnouts to be a franchise QB, or stud pass rusher...long odd on picking either in the top ten of the draft.

The only player in the 2020 draft that I’d take over Minkah Fitzpatrick is Chase Young.

But, the Steelers are not getting the #1 overall pick (so, it’s a moot point).

[Six Rings]

The only player in the 2020 draft that I’d take over Minkah Fitzpatrick is Chase Young.

Chase Young is impressive, but let's pause for a moment, he could have character issues.


The NFL might eventually go to a lottery system to prevent tanking, and I'd for it...its the only way the Steelers have a chance for the #1 overall pick in my lifetime besides trading for it.

[teegre]

Chase Young is impressive, but let's pause for a moment, he could have character issues.


The NFL might eventually go to a lottery system to prevent tanking, and I'd for it...its the only way the Steelers have a chance for the #1 overall pick in my lifetime besides trading for it.

If by “character issues” you mean that he took money... so does everyone else.

If by “character issues” you mean abuse/violence... then, I stay away.

(I haven’t read. Which is it with him?)

LOTTERY:
It’d make the top 10 more interesting.

[Edman]

Ben is aging poorly, coming off an elbow injury, and the B’s are gone.

Even if Ben returns in 2020, there is no sure thing he and the Offense will even return to the level of where it once was. He may even regress to Rudolph/Hodges level, which is worse because his cost is much greater. Not to mention the O Line May lose some key pieces.

The Steelers did the right thing trading for Minkah. A good Defense at least gives them a chance while they search for their next QB or Develop Rudolph.

[pczach]

If by “character issues” you mean that he took money... so does everyone else.

If by “character issues” you mean abuse/violence... then, I stay away.

(I haven’t read. Which is it with him?)

LOTTERY:
It’d make the top 10 more interesting.

He borrowed money from a family friend to fly his girlfriend to the Rose Bowl last year. He claims he paid the family friend back.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy.

They have players spend hours and hours every week on football.

They want them to spend time in the classroom and study to be real students.

They won't allow these kids to work to earn any money because they are worried about them being paid for not actually working.

How the hell do they expect these kids to be able to live regular lives and do the things that every other kid can do if they won't let them work for a living and they come from a family that doesn't have the money to support them away from home?

I truly don't know if he paid the friend back or not, but something has to change. These kids are put in a no-win situation.

This is not a character issue.

[teegre]

If by “character issues” you mean that he took money... so does everyone else.

If by “character issues” you mean abuse/violence... then, I stay away.

(I haven’t read. Which is it with him?)

LOTTERY:
It’d make the top 10 more interesting.

I just read about it.

Chase borrowed money to fly his girlfriend out to watch him play in the Rose Bowl. He paid it back. Ergo... uh... WTF!?!

- - - Updated - - -

He borrowed money from a family friend to fly his girlfriend to the Rose Bowl last year. He claims he paid the family friend back.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy.

They have players spend hours and hours every week on football.

They want them to spend time in the classroom and study to be real students.

They won't allow these kids to work to earn any money because they are worried about them being paid for not actually working.

How the hell do they expect these kids to be able to live regular lives and do the things that every other kid can do if they won't let them work for a living and they come from a family that doesn't have the money to support them away from home?

I truly don't know if he paid the friend back or not, but something has to change. These kids are put in a no-win situation.

This is not a character issue.

Yep

[Six Rings]

If by “character issues” you mean that he took money... so does everyone else.

If by “character issues” you mean abuse/violence... then, I stay away.

(I haven’t read. Which is it with him?)

LOTTERY:
It’d make the top 10 more interesting.

What's know is he's suspended for 4 games by taking a " loan " partly used to fly his girlfriend around.

Not everyone takes money, but I think the ones who do and get caught are more likely to be character risks. This was not wise. If your going to be a top 10 pick, don't break any rules, it can only hurt you.

On the thought of an NFL lottery, its might actually help bad teams like the Jets and Browns if they lose their #1 overall pick in the lottery as guy who they picked #1 or #2 overall usually turns out to be a bust might be off the board allowing them to make the better choice on say the 3rd or 4th pick overall pick. Ha!

Yes to the NFL lottery with NBA like odds and rules. Draw the lottery after the Super Bowl, but before the combine and free agency starts...the dark period for teams. It would be a very interesting! If they did it during the pro bowl half time people might actually go back to caring about that " Game "

[Born2Steel]

Differing opinions on what should or should not be termed 'paying players'. I see nothing wrong with a player taking a loan as long as he does pay it back. Maybe he should be charged interest so it doesn't show favoritism? Bottom line is the NCAA is corrupt beyond words and trying to fix it seems impossible. College football and basketball is a HUGE business that rivals everything else you can think of. The playing field is not level and if institutions are allowed to legally pay their players it will only get worse, IMO. Needs to be a completely separate body that governs player payment if it ever happens. You CANNOT trust the NCAA. It would be a conflict of interest as well as a business monopoly.

Chase Young(insert player name) could take that loan from said loan company and pay back on payments with interest like everyone else in the world. No NCAA infraction or question. Done.

[pczach]

Differing opinions on what should or should not be termed 'paying players'. I see nothing wrong with a player taking a loan as long as he does pay it back. Maybe he should be charged interest so it doesn't show favoritism? Bottom line is the NCAA is corrupt beyond words and trying to fix it seems impossible. College football and basketball is a HUGE business that rivals everything else you can think of. The playing field is not level and if institutions are allowed to legally pay their players it will only get worse, IMO. Needs to be a completely separate body that governs player payment if it ever happens. You CANNOT trust the NCAA. It would be a conflict of interest as well as a business monopoly.

Chase Young(insert player name) could take that loan from said loan company and pay back on payments with interest like everyone else in the world. No NCAA infraction or question. Done.

He can't get a loan from anybody or any lending institution because he has zero income. He isn't allowed to work by the NCAA.

Any other student can get a job and borrow money from a family friend or a lending institution, and nobody would think twice about it. They can't deny players a chance to earn money, yet not allow them to take money from anybody. It's stupid beyond belief.

[86WARD]

True... but...

Rudolph + Fitzpatrick > QB20 + Davis

All that needs to be said...

[Butch]

Chase Young is impressive, but let's pause for a moment, he could have character issues.


The NFL might eventually go to a lottery system to prevent tanking, and I'd for it...its the only way the Steelers have a chance for the #1 overall pick in my lifetime besides trading for it.

1st off when has any good NFL team tanked a season to get a higher draft pick? The Steelers could have easily tanked the season when Ben went down in week 2 and gotten a great pick, but why??? This is a chance to see what kind of backup QB you have and what kind of character the team has when the franchise QB goes down. A chance to see who steps up and who you are going to pay to keep.

I am not liking what I am hearing yinz say about a lottery. I don't like it and it doesn't need to be inserted into the NFL there is no reason for it. If you want to make the probowl better get rid of the current format and make it some sort of skills competition and then go back to having it after the SB. IMHO the fairest system is the one that is currently in place. It allows teams that suck to either make a great draft or they can trade out to get more picks. Hopefully it helps those teams get better. I would argue that a team in the NFL has the best chance of going from worst to 1st than any other sport.

I am and always have been happy with the Minkah trade. I believe that Ben will be back for the next couple years and I like that we have put faith in Rudolph to lead this team and get some much needed experience. There is no guarantee that the next QB brought in will fair any better. Those QBs are diamonds in the rough and even getting a high draft pick does not mean they will be successful.

[Craic]

He borrowed money from a family friend to fly his girlfriend to the Rose Bowl last year. He claims he paid the family friend back.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy.

They have players spend hours and hours every week on football.

They want them to spend time in the classroom and study to be real students.

They won't allow these kids to work to earn any money because they are worried about them being paid for not actually working.

How the hell do they expect these kids to be able to live regular lives and do the things that every other kid can do if they won't let them work for a living and they come from a family that doesn't have the money to support them away from home?

I truly don't know if he paid the friend back or not, but something has to change. These kids are put in a no-win situation.

This is not a character issue.

Some context, here.

Most (up to 85 student on each team) of these players are on full-ride scholarships. That means tuition, room and board, books, and so on. Other students get help getting Pell Grants so they don't add up under the scholarship rule. They're also in the sports program which is basically free health care as well. So, in fact, they are getting paid. In fact, average out-of-state tuition at a 4 year public university is 25k. Room and board is around 10k a year right now (or more depending on where you go). Books are around $1250 a year. The healthcare they get is probably worth around $6000 a year (just figuring how much individual policies are). So, in reality, scholarship player are making $43,500 a year. Starting at 18 years old. Let's put that in perspective. The average starting salary for a graduate out of college is right around fifty thousand dollars. But, they have to pay taxes, medicare, SSI, health insurance, and so on. None of which a college athlete pays for that $43,500.

Are there still legitimate needs not covered? Yes. Clothes. Perhaps a computer if it is not mandatory for the school (which then could be covered by the scholarship). But this notion that NCAA players are being paid is far from the truth.

[pczach]

Some context, here.

Most of these players are on full-ride scholarships. That means tuition, room and board, books, and so on. They're also in the sports program which is basically free health care as well. So, in fact, they are getting paid. In fact, average out-of-state tuition at a 4 year public university is 25k. Room and board is around 10k a year right now (or more depending on where you go). Books are around $1250 a year. The healthcare they get is probably worth around $6000 a year (just figuring how much individual policies are). So, in reality, scholarship player are making $43,500 a year. Starting at 18 years old usually. Moreover, they can get money for transportation home and back under NCAA guidelines.

Are there still legitimate needs not covered? Yes. Clothes. Perhaps a computer if it is not mandatory for the school (which then could be covered by the scholarship). But this notion that NCAA players are being paid is far from the truth.

We are talking about money towards anything that isn't related to football. I know that they get compensation in the form of education and everything you mention above.

So you're saying a kid shouldn't be able to go to a movie, take a girl on a date, or go for something to eat on free time while out with friends? If a kid isn't allowed a way to earn any money, they have to be allowed a way to be able to live as something other than a football player like every other kid gets to do.....period.

[Born2Steel]

He can't get a loan from anybody or any lending institution because he has zero income. He isn't allowed to work by the NCAA.

Any other student can get a job and borrow money from a family friend or a lending institution, and nobody would think twice about it. They can't deny players a chance to earn money, yet not allow them to take money from anybody. It's stupid beyond belief.

Correct. Which is why I offered one possible solution.

[Craic]

We are talking about money towards anything that isn't related to football. I know that they get compensation in the form of education and everything you mention above.

So you're saying a kid shouldn't be able to go to a movie, take a girl on a date, or go for something to eat on free time while out with friends? If a kid isn't allowed a way to earn any money, they have to be allowed a way to be able to live as something other than a football player like every other kid gets to do.....period.

You missed something in my post.

Are there still legitimate needs not covered? Yes.

My argument isn't that the system now is perfect or complete. Only that the idea of them not being "paid" is far off the mark. They're getting paid a great deal. What we're talking about now is freeing up some of those funds for other areas.

Honestly, I'd have no problem with the full-ride scholarships providing players with a $250-$300 a month stipend. On the other hand, there are a whole lot of kids in college who can't afford to go to movies, eat out with friends, and so on, and they play no sports at all. Heck, I went to the theater, I think, one time when I was in college. That is, until I found a dollar theater (and I was in my last year with a smaller load so I could work). Eating out: you do realize that today, the "board" part of room and board includes restaurants and fast food all over campus, right? At the college I'm working at now, we have a nice restaurant a few blocks off the main campus (ran by business students so they can get experience. It is attached to a hotel also ran by students as part of their college training). We have 12-15 different restaurants and fast food chains on campus. And, we even have a small grocery/school items store (not a book store). EVERY ONE of those places will accept the credits students get as part of their "board" in room and board.