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Thread: Bud Dupree

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    Senior Member Array title="RunNGun has a reputation beyond repute"> RunNGun's Avatar

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    Bud Dupree

    Just curious as to how many of you are in favor of trying to bring Bud back? I know his first few years were mediocre at best, at least from a statistical perspective. However, this year he's really making a name for himself. I wonder how much of his production, or lack of, was due to scheme and how much of it was due to him being in a contract year?

    I would like to keep him around. We should keep this young defense together and slowly add pieces to the offense. I do believe Bud will be asking for too much money. Maybe we franchise tag him?

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    I think we lose Dupree and Hargrave both. Since I’m not paying I am for bringing back either or both. But I think we lose both of them.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    I think we lose Dupree and Hargrave both. Since I’m not paying I am for bringing back either or both. But I think we lose both of them.
    I don't see them losing both. Surely one of them will get the franchise tag? Unless they have a target in free agency?

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    I would bring him back but not sure I would do it at the expense of Hargrave being “set free”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    I would bring him back but not sure I would do it at the expense of Hargrave being “set free”.
    This is almost certainly going to be the new narrative.

    Despite Hargrave and Colbert both issuing sworn affidavits that Hargrave left to anchor the Patriots defense and preferred to be paid in Brady's tears than US dollars.

    If they sign Dupree and lose Hargrave, we can immediately add that to Dongpree's sins.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    I'd rather keep Dupree if it came down to it. When Tuitt was healthy, what percentage of the snaps did Hargrave get? Less than 50 I assume. I'd be more comfortable drafting Hargrave's replacement in the 2nd round opposed to Dupree's. Depth is very thin at OLB.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Bud looks like he's dancing the Haynesworth shuffle. I say let Washington or some other team overpay him

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    OLB is the premium position in this defense. He's not worth first tier dollars, but second tier, I'm good with.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Watt, Dupree, Chickillo, Ola, Elliot?, Skipper? Sutton Smith? No 1st round draft pick. If it comes to sign Dupree OR Hargrave, have to re-sign Dupree unless something changes at the OLB position in a positive way. Dupree has always been an above league average run defender. His pass rush is working this year whether it is due to him getting better or attention to others leaves Bud more chances, it is better.

    Heyward, Tuitt, Hargrave, Alualu, Buggs, McCullers, Walton. DL is in much better shape for the future.

    Honest opinion is we lose both.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'm all for signing him. Right now he's playing up to that 5th year option and maybe some. On pace for 12 sacks this year. For years we've been looking for a pass rushing threat on both ends, and although Dupree was slow to develop, he's looking to be there now. When you have 2 bookends, you don't split them up.

    I haven't really been impressed with Adeniyi in his limited snaps. Looks good in the preseason but vs starters I often see him get blown off the line.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Maybe Dupree is finally playing healthy? He claims to have played every season so far with an injury. One year he apparently couldn't lift one of his arms above his chest or something.

    I don't know what it is, but this version of Dupree is worth the draft cost and a pile of money.

    I suspect he doesn't get it in Pittsburgh.

    Enjoy the 2019 defense. The dismantling begins this off-season. Dupree and Hargrave likely leave for greener pa$ture$. Father Time is going to come for Haden at some point. Hilton and Sutton need contracts as well with little overall cap space.

    Why can't this team get it together on both sides of the ball at the same time?! Stupid, Tomlin.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Zero interest in this overrated clod.

    Four years of absolutely nothing, then in a contract year makes it a little interesting, no thanks. All he's doing anyway right now is showing flickers. He's not taking over games. You want a guy who does that, look directly across the defense to the other OLB position. Keep THAT guy, pay THAT guy, and whoever is Dupree's replacement will do just fine. No need to kneecap our ability to retain players who are actually important so we can have four more years of this turd.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post

    Why can't this team get it together on both sides of the ball at the same time?! Stupid, Tomlin.
    Money?:

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    I would love to bring Dupree back. He’s finally hitting his potential and only going to get better. He’s coming into his own as a pass rusher plus he’s very good against the run.

    That said, he’s gonna want to eat and some team is gonna feed him

    “No more yanky my wanky... the Donger need food!”

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    The other night, Bince was on Twitter saying that this is the first time that Dupree has been healthy.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    AFC Defensive Dong Player of the Week



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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    The other night, Bince was on Twitter saying that this is the first time that Dupree has been healthy.
    In five years ... Isn't that a problem in itself?
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    Money?:
    Absolutely. I should've used the sarcasm font! Another MojoUW joke that didn't land by miles and miles!

    It is simply the frustrating part of the salary cap NFL that trying to get all the talent on both sides of the ball to come online at the same time is really really really hard!

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    So ignore the name and the draft position. Fast forward to this off-season. You need an OLB.

    You can have one of the following:
    1. An unproven and untested pass rusher from the MAC in his 3rd season with little to no exposure to starting in the NFL.
    2. A second round draft pick OLB.
    3. Anthony Chickillo for $6 million dollars or whatever.
    4. An undersized OLB from an FBS school.
    5. A 27 year old OLB that is coming off a season where he played excellent run defense, was decent defending space, and finally appeared to put his pass rush game together and had 10 sacks.
    6. One of the players from this list: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-age...de-linebacker/

    As much as I might not like it, #5 is the "best" option for ensuring a floor of acceptable play at my vacant OLB position. Unless I wanted to try and pry Clowney out of Seattle or bet that Shaq Barrett finally "broke out" and it is more "real" than the other same age player that also "broke out" -- what else does a team do?

    Maybe swallow hard and bet that you pull a gem in the 3rd or 4th round of the draft? Like catch a prospect that is falling similar to how Lawson did a few years ago and cobble together a rotation on the other side of Watt? I am hesitant to do that, because I saw GB waste years of Matthews' prime by running out failed prospect after failed prospect on the other side.

    I don't really want to pay Dupree a ton of money. Especially if it means losing out on Hargrave, Foster, Finney, and any potential improvements at other positions from the outside. But if I consider that pass rush from the OLBs is the entire point of this defense...it is hard to envision it getting better with the other options I can come up with.

    I dunno. Maybe Dupree likes playing here enough that he takes like $10 million and calls it a day. Doubt it.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    The other night, Bince was on Twitter saying that this is the first time that Dupree has been healthy.
    Dong Tweet

  21. #21
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    A poor to average OLB his entire career so far. Yeah, let's keep that. He makes a couple of plays and the Dupree fan club dubs him the LT of OLBs.

    I will take Hargrave over Dupree every time.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    I'd say it's much more likely they pay Bud than Hargrave. He plays a more important position, and Dupree also plays more snaps.
    1. Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia 2. Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia 3. Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan 3. ​Renardo Green, CB, FSU 4. Mo Kamara, OLB, Colorado State 6. Logan Lee, DT, Iowa 6.Khristian Boyd, NT, Northern Iowa

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    So ignore the name and the draft position. Fast forward to this off-season. You need an OLB.

    You can have one of the following:
    1. An unproven and untested pass rusher from the MAC in his 3rd season with little to no exposure to starting in the NFL.
    2. A second round draft pick OLB.
    3. Anthony Chickillo for $6 million dollars or whatever.
    4. An undersized OLB from an FBS school.
    5. A 27 year old OLB that is coming off a season where he played excellent run defense, was decent defending space, and finally appeared to put his pass rush game together and had 10 sacks.
    6. One of the players from this list: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-age...de-linebacker/

    As much as I might not like it, #5 is the "best" option for ensuring a floor of acceptable play at my vacant OLB position. Unless I wanted to try and pry Clowney out of Seattle or bet that Shaq Barrett finally "broke out" and it is more "real" than the other same age player that also "broke out" -- what else does a team do?

    Maybe swallow hard and bet that you pull a gem in the 3rd or 4th round of the draft? Like catch a prospect that is falling similar to how Lawson did a few years ago and cobble together a rotation on the other side of Watt? I am hesitant to do that, because I saw GB waste years of Matthews' prime by running out failed prospect after failed prospect on the other side.

    I don't really want to pay Dupree a ton of money. Especially if it means losing out on Hargrave, Foster, Finney, and any potential improvements at other positions from the outside. But if I consider that pass rush from the OLBs is the entire point of this defense...it is hard to envision it getting better with the other options I can come up with.

    I dunno. Maybe Dupree likes playing here enough that he takes like $10 million and calls it a day. Doubt it.
    Exactly my thinking. It all comes down to Dupree being much more difficult to replace than Hargrave. Is the franchise tag an option for Dupree? Imo, that's the best option.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    A poor to average OLB his entire career so far. Yeah, let's keep that. He makes a couple of plays and the Dupree fan club dubs him the LT of OLBs.

    I will take Hargrave over Dupree every time.
    No one is making that claim. The dropoff after Dupree would be extreme. This defense, with all it's youth has the potential to be very good for the next few seasons. Losing Dupree takes us a step back.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Absolutely. I should've used the sarcasm font! Another MojoUW joke that didn't land by miles and miles!

    It is simply the frustrating part of the salary cap NFL that trying to get all the talent on both sides of the ball to come online at the same time is really really really hard!
    Ack, you make a post like this, but then right underneath it, you go into great detail about how we want/need to basically ignore that.

    It all does come down to money. And what THAT comes down to is, you have to take chances on unknown draft picks and journeyman free agents, or the cap system will do it for you. All you get to decide is which positions you take the chance on - not whether you do at all.

    In an ideal world, we could go, "What the hell, it's not hurting anything to keep this Dupree guy around, let's see if he can do anything." In the harsh world of practicalities, the choice is Dupree or Hargrave. Dupree or Watt. Dupree or Juju. Dupree or Bell (if he'd stayed around). Not "Dupree or unproven draft pick."

    The kind of money that's being talked about for Dupree, you can afford to give to your best 3 or 4 players including the quarterback. Even at the lower $10M number, you can fit about 6 of those before you start running into problems (assuming the top 3-4 of those are going to be higher than just $10M flat).

    Dupree isn't even the fifth- or sixth-best player on the defense. He's like the ninth-best ahead of only Edmunds and whichever ILB is playing opposite Bush. And even that depends a lot on what you think about Edmunds.

    Dupree is EXACTLY the kind of guy you have to let go of amd try somebody new, even if the sole reason is money. I am not too worried about it. He is not even our top player at his specific position.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    Exactly my thinking. It all comes down to Dupree being much more difficult to replace than Hargrave. Is the franchise tag an option for Dupree? Imo, that's the best option.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No one is making that claim. The dropoff after Dupree would be extreme. This defense, with all it's youth has the potential to be very good for the next few seasons. Losing Dupree takes us a step back.
    I think it is an option. But I believe the Franchise would be $15+ million of a cap hit in 2019. If you look at what the Packers put together for Z. Smith - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-ba...s-smith-16848/ - a multi-year deal allows you to play more funny games with when cash hits your cap sheet.

    For instance, Smith only counts $7.25 million on the 2019 cap. Then some big jumps. IF the Steelers could do something like that, maybe the can squeeze Dupree AND Heyward into the small ($20 million or so) cap space they have in 2020 and then push the big dollars into 2021 and beyond where they have $96+ million in cap space.

    But this stuff makes my head hurt and I am not always sure I understand it properly. However, it seems there is a way to sign both Heyward and Dupree -- they just have to delay the (big) cash for one cap year...

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    The more I read about it the more I think Dupree is as good as gone. The franchise tag is about the only option, but it would set the team back too much financially. Cutting Moncrief, Chickillo, and Barron frees up 14 million, but that's still not enough. Plus, James Conner and Juju will be in contract extension talks next season. One thing that comes to mind is if Ben retired...Would that free up some space? Not saying that's a likely scenario, but I'm curious.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I think it is an option. But I believe the Franchise would be $15+ million of a cap hit in 2019. If you look at what the Packers put together for Z. Smith - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-ba...s-smith-16848/ - a multi-year deal allows you to play more funny games with when cash hits your cap sheet.

    For instance, Smith only counts $7.25 million on the 2019 cap. Then some big jumps. IF the Steelers could do something like that, maybe the can squeeze Dupree AND Heyward into the small ($20 million or so) cap space they have in 2020 and then push the big dollars into 2021 and beyond where they have $96+ million in cap space.

    But this stuff makes my head hurt and I am not always sure I understand it properly. However, it seems there is a way to sign both Heyward and Dupree -- they just have to delay the (big) cash for one cap year...
    There is always some insane amount of cap space three years out, because only 4 or 5 players (on any team) will have more than three years left on their current contract at any given point in time. But somehow when it's the next season, that amount is like $3 million.

    Yeah, we've got $98 million in cap space in the 2021 offseason if we've got no Watt, no Juju, no Haden, no Nelson, no Heyward, no Conner, no Ben, no Pouncey, no DeCastro, no Villanueva, no McDonald, no Hilton, and also we don't sign any replacements for those players, or pay any other guys on their rookie contracts any more than they're making now.

    THAT'S how you get to numbers like $98 million in cap space. Needless to say, the odds of that happening are less than zero. Always very easy to look three or four years out, though, and say "Wow, once we get there, we're in the clear!" instead of "Holy shit, by the time we get there, we are going to have to re-sign or get rid of virtually every single player on the entire team."
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    There is always some insane amount of cap space three years out, because only 4 or 5 players (on any team) will have more than three years left on their current contract at any given point in time. But somehow when it's the next season, that amount is like $3 million.

    Yeah, we've got $98 million in cap space in the 2021 offseason if we've got no Watt, no Juju, no Haden, no Nelson, no Heyward, no Conner, no Ben, no Pouncey, no DeCastro, no Villanueva, no McDonald, no Hilton, and also we don't sign any replacements for those players, or pay any guys on their rookie contracts any more than they're making now.

    THAT'S how you get to numbers like $98 million in cap space. Needless to say, the odds of that happening are less than zero. Always very easy to look three or four years out, though, and say "Wow, once we get there, we're in the clear!" instead of "Holy shit, by the time we get there, we are going to have to re-sign or get rid of virtually every single player on the entire team."
    It also has a lot to do with how young this team is and how many guys are still playing on their rookie contracts. Either way, you're right, it will eventually creep up on us.

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    There is always some insane amount of cap space three years out, because only 4 or 5 players (on any team) will have more than three years left on their current contract at any given point in time. But somehow when it's the next season, that amount is like $3 million.

    Yeah, we've got $98 million in cap space in the 2021 offseason if we've got no Watt, no Juju, no Haden, no Nelson, no Heyward, no Conner, no Ben, no Pouncey, no DeCastro, no Villanueva, no McDonald, no Hilton, and also we don't sign any replacements for those players, or pay any guys on their rookie contracts any more than they're making now.

    THAT'S how you get to numbers like $98 million in cap space. Needless to say, the odds of that happening are less than zero. Always very easy to look three or four years out, though, and say "Wow, once we get there, we're in the clear!" instead of "Holy shit, by the time we get there, we are going to have to re-sign or get rid of virtually every single important player on the entire team."
    Obviously, I mean they only have 23 players under contract for 2021.

    I just find it interesting that the "math" of all this is not quite that a $15 million dollar average annual value contract actually requires $15 million of cap space each contract year. For instance you could play all kinds of games with the structure and have it be like $5 million in year one, and $25 million in year two, and $20 million in year three, and then 10 million in year four. Such nonsense MAY allow a team to squeeze more contracts onto a cap sheet than first glance would indicate.

    Is it a good idea? Possible? Nonsense in my head? Who knows. Not me.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Obviously, I mean they only have 23 players under contract for 2021.

    I just find it interesting that the "math" of all this is not quite that a $15 million dollar average annual value contract actually requires $15 million of cap space each contract year. For instance you could play all kinds of games with the structure and have it be like $5 million in year one, and $25 million in year two, and $20 million in year three, and then 10 million in year four. Such nonsense MAY allow a team to squeeze more contracts onto a cap sheet than first glance would indicate.

    Is it a good idea? Possible? Nonsense in my head? Who knows. Not me.
    Remember how we had that big cap crunch in like 2011-12-13 where we started every offseason like $20 million over the cap? That's why that happened. Backloaded contracts and restructures out the butt, so we could keep the 2004-08 era team together for a couple more years.

    I don't think we want to do that again, certainly not for this group of players who still have a way to go before they're competing for championships.

    So yes, it is possible, in the same way you can max out your credit card and then keep doing balance transfers to new cards, until those are all full too and you're left eating ramen and drinking King Cobra for three years. The only reason our team wasnt completely gutted during that stretch is because we whiffed on two entire draft classes in 2008-09 and didn't even try to re-sign any of those players when their rookie deals ended. But of course, that left us with other problems.

    Long story short, you can play around with cap dollars in all kinds of ways, and we already do it a lot ... but we've been burned before, and Dupree isn't worth it.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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