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Thread: Bud Dupree

  1. #121
    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Lumping Dupree with Artie Burns just shows that either someone doesn't understand football, or they simply choose to ignore the facts as they're presented just because it conflicts with their personal narrative.

  2. #122
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Bud "Dongalicious" Dupree

  3. #123
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Wonder if we can get a list of all the guys who don't work hard enough in the NFL? Be useful to have in discussions.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeegee Thompson View Post
    Dupree is a physical freak. However, everyone's hesitation in backing up a Brinks truck for the guy is we don't know which Dupree is gonna show up next year. The analogy with James Harrison really isn't applicable. Harrison had a next-level work ethic, a relentless motor and a game-day intensity that Dupree could only dream of. Bud has had a lengthy history of mediocrity, but now is playing at a Pro Bowl level.

    If this is the version of Dupree that's gonna terrorize QBs for the next 5 years, then absolutely pay the man. Or is this 'contract-year' Bud who's wowing coaches only to shift down into second gear next year and coast on his fat contract? I really don't know - to my untrained eye, it looks more like an issue of effort vs 'the light finally coming on'. With Harrison, like TJ, you know you're gonna get every ounce that they have to give on every snap. I'm just not convinced that Dupree has the desire to be that same type of player.
    As Teegre said, the motor of TJ Watt or James Harrison is very rare, and I’ll totally submit for the record that Dupree is not as good as either of those guys.

    That said, I don’t think his big problem has been effort; as in he could have been playing this well the whole time, but decided to hold back until a contract year, and then he’ll stop trying. Nothing I’ve read about him indicates that about him.

    I really think it’s a few things: switching sides where he seems to play much better, him
    developing more moves, the game slowing down and being able to read and react better.

    It is, in my mind, more of “lights turning on” as a catch all for being a physical freak who needed time to live up to his potential.

    The only way I see him regressing at all is if he goes to another team and is put in a system that doesn’t play to his strengths.

    He isn’t Albert Haynesworth. Most people aren’t. I think this whole “regression after getting paid” idea is more rare than common. When players get better they usually just get better. Obviously that kind of thing is always a risk, but I just don’t see Dupree as that kind of guy. I’m not sure why we should assume he is.

    Now if you just feel that we can’t afford to make the deal he’ll want, like a Lev Bell situation, I can totally understand that. We shouldn’t give him the deal that TJ will deserve.

  5. #125
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Wonder if we can get a list of all the guys who don't work hard enough in the NFL? Be useful to have in discussions.
    I also want to know how prevalent it is for a player to improve tremendously after a few years of playing, and then
    totally stop trying IN THEIR PRIME as soon as they sign a big money contract.

    Is this common?

  6. #126
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    I also want to know how prevalent it is for a player to improve tremendously after a few years of playing, and then
    totally stop trying IN THEIR PRIME as soon as they sign a big money contract.

    Is this common?
    Nope. That would be dumb because if you do it correctly, you can get paid again in 4 years. But I am not really expecting much from the wing of this board that admits to watching no other teams besides the Steelers and not even all the Steelers games. Not sure league-wide context and trends is going to be a strong-suit.

  7. #127
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Nope. That would be dumb because if you do it correctly, you can get paid again in 4 years. But I am not really expecting much from the wing of this board that admits to watching no other teams besides the Steelers and not even all the Steelers games. Not sure league-wide context and trends is going to be a strong-suit.
    I’m also wondering why Dupree was “lazy” last year instead or turning it on and getting the long term security deal instead of the one year extension. As Lev Bell tells us, it’s all about the long term guarantees.

    Also, how did he know to be lazy last year? It wasn’t a sure thing that he’d get the extension. It seems like a weird gamble from someone who is apparently so calculating about when to try really hard for the most possible benefit. If he’d just tried last year instead of this year, he would already be on year one of the Bud Dupree regression retirement plan.

  8. #128
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    You won’t find Bud Dupree talent (or better) for less than what Bud Dupree will cost. Stick with what you know or roll the dice...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  9. #129
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    There is an obvious answer.


    Offer him a Dong contract!

  10. #130
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Dissolv View Post
    There is an obvious answer.


    Offer him a Dong contract!
    Does that mean his agent does all the work and Bud just comes in at the last second to sign it?

  11. #131

    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    As Teegre said, the motor of TJ Watt or James Harrison is very rare, and I’ll totally submit for the record that Dupree is not as good as either of those guys.

    That said, I don’t think his big problem has been effort; as in he could have been playing this well the whole time, but decided to hold back until a contract year, and then he’ll stop trying. Nothing I’ve read about him indicates that about him.

    I really think it’s a few things: switching sides where he seems to play much better, him
    developing more moves, the game slowing down and being able to read and react better.

    It is, in my mind, more of “lights turning on” as a catch all for being a physical freak who needed time to live up to his potential.

    The only way I see him regressing at all is if he goes to another team and is put in a system that doesn’t play to his strengths.

    He isn’t Albert Haynesworth. Most people aren’t. I think this whole “regression after getting paid” idea is more rare than common. When players get better they usually just get better. Obviously that kind of thing is always a risk, but I just don’t see Dupree as that kind of guy. I’m not sure why we should assume he is.

    Now if you just feel that we can’t afford to make the deal he’ll want, like a Lev Bell situation, I can totally understand that. We shouldn’t give him the deal that TJ will deserve.
    The lights turning on is part of it. However, I've quoted TJ Watt somewhere else on this subject. The real issue that helped the light turn on was that he learned how to study film. He and TJ now sit in the film room together and go over film. That has helped Dupree know what he has to do and where he has to go in certain situations rather than simply relying on athleticism, which wasn't quite good enough to get through and get whomever he was after.


  12. #132
    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Is Dupree’s play “guaranteed” to continue to be at this level? No

    Is any free agent’s play “guaranteed” to continue to be at that level? No

    SUMMATION:
    It’s a risk either way. But, a bird on the hand... (And, it’s a bird that already knows the playbook.)


    BTW...
    Watt has been on Twitter talking nice about Dupree... about how that now that Dupree is healthy, Watt has a partner in crime. It sounds like Watt wants Dupree to stay. Then again, what does what know... he was “handed” his starting job (Watt didn’t “earn” it). As in: Watt is just slobbering.
    Watt going on social media saying he does not want Dupree to stay would be a story

    Teammates want everyone to get paid as long as they are not paying for it - ask TJ how much of his contract extension he will kick in to keep Dupre

  13. #133
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Watt going on social media saying he does not want Dupree to stay would be a story

    Teammates want everyone to get paid as long as they are not paying for it - ask TJ how much of his contract extension he will kick in to keep Dupre


    TJ be like....



  14. #134

    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Watt going on social media saying he does not want Dupree to stay would be a story

    Teammates want everyone to get paid as long as they are not paying for it - ask TJ how much of his contract extension he will kick in to keep Dupre
    Watt advocating for someone is also a story. Staying silent would be the smart move. Advocating means he actually believes in Dupree at this point. And, again, i go back to what Watt has said about them studying film together now and really starting to connect on how they should play the OLB position against teams.


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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    You won’t find Bud Dupree talent (or better) for less than what Bud Dupree will cost. Stick with what you know or roll the dice...
    Sticking with Bud is still rolling the dice.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Dissolv View Post
    There is an obvious answer.


    Offer him a Dong contract!
    /thread

  17. #137
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by FrancoLambert View Post
    Sticking with Bud is still rolling the dice.
    It's rolling the dice with stacked dice, because you know what you'll likely get. IMO he had a good season last year (not great, but good), and he's stepped up this year. We know his ceiling now, so it's much less of a gamble. Considering too that rarely any of the edge rushers taken outside of the top 10 do great in their first year. If Ben is coming back next year, we're still in 'win now' mode, signing Dupree will be a priority.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by FrancoLambert View Post
    Sticking with Bud is still rolling the dice.
    But it’s your dice opposed to dice that you don’t know how they will roll...lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  19. #139
    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    The lights turning on is part of it. However, I've quoted TJ Watt somewhere else on this subject. The real issue that helped the light turn on was that he learned how to study film. He and TJ now sit in the film room together and go over film. That has helped Dupree know what he has to do and where he has to go in certain situations rather than simply relying on athleticism, which wasn't quite good enough to get through and get whomever he was after.
    Yes, you’re absolutely right.

    I guess I’m kind of using expressions like “the lights turning on” as a kind of catch all phrase indicating mental improvement. But you point out a very important specific. Dupree didn’t just “get it” randomly. His film study is definitely contributing to it, and it’s actually a BETTER indicator that his needle is going to keep pointing up. Not just because it’s an example of his work ethic, but I’m pretty sure he isn’t going to suddenly FORGET everything he’s learning.

    He’s simply not going to get worse than he is now, barring injury.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    It's rolling the dice with stacked dice, because you know what you'll likely get. IMO he had a good season last year (not great, but good), and he's stepped up this year. We know his ceiling now, so it's much less of a gamble. Considering too that rarely any of the edge rushers taken outside of the top 10 do great in their first year. If Ben is coming back next year, we're still in 'win now' mode, signing Dupree will be a priority.
    IMO his performance this year guarantees that the Steelers pay him to stay.
    Just hope that Bud cashing in big time doesn’t breed complacency on his part.

  21. #141
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    An interesting read about Bud and his development.

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...ass-rusher-nfl

    I always find it fascinating how certain people talk about James Harrison at every turn, yet in this article and others that I have read tell how he refused to help Dupree in any way which goes against everything Steelers historically.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    An interesting read about Bud and his development.

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...ass-rusher-nfl

    I always find it fascinating how certain people talk about James Harrison at every turn, yet in this article and others that I have read tell how he refused to help Dupree in any way which goes against everything Steelers historically.
    But he was such a leader and role model. Harrison was a great player but kind of a dingus.

  23. #143
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    But he was such a leader and role model. Harrison was a great player but kind of a dingus.
    Yeah, Harrison always marched to his own tune. Not really a leader, except by example. Kind of a lone wolf.

    I really like the current chemistry between the linebackers. And I especially appreciate the relationship between Bud and TJ. I believe Bud has absolutely earned the money he’s gonna get next year, from either us or someone else, but there’s no question TJ’s presence and influence have really helped Bud take this step towards reaching his potential.

    Watt was such a great draft pick. We should always remember that character, and in his case pedigree, really mean something. That Watt family knows how to raise kids.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    I'm really leaning towards the notion that the Steelers put the franchise tag on Dupree. I really don't think there's any way the let him walk. The Steelers never let anyone go that they really want to keep.

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    STUD Dupree

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I'm really leaning towards the notion that the Steelers put the franchise tag on Dupree. I really don't think there's any way the let him walk. The Steelers never let anyone go that they really want to keep.
    I would actually support this move, a hell of a lot more than a long-term contract that would most likely exceed the franchise tag in average value. It gives us one more free look at essentially the same or lower cost than rolling out the long-term deal now.

    I, for one, am not fully convinced that this is the Dupree we will see every year; that the constant nagging injuries will not resurface; or that his improvement doesn't have a HELL of a lot to do with the other players on the defense.

    It will also give us an extra year to see if we can find anyone else to play the position adequately in the event that re-signing him is too expensive. Let's face it, Watt is thr absolute #1 priority to keep in a year or two, and I cannot see us allocating $40M in cap space to the OLB position alone. Just doesn't work.

    Franchise tag for OLBs is surprisingly lower than I thought (for 2019, at least). I am not 100% sure exactly how it is calculated, but I seem to remember a lot of recent years where it had been near $20M, probably because one or two guys' ridiculous signing bonuses pushed it way up.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  27. #147
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    You won’t find Bud Dupree talent (or better) for less than what Bud Dupree will cost. Stick with what you know or roll the dice...
    So how much to pay him? $15 mil a season?
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I would actually support this move, a hell of a lot more than a long-term contract that would most likely exceed the franchise tag in average value. It gives us one more free look at essentially the same or lower cost than rolling out the long-term deal now.

    I, for one, am not fully convinced that this is the Dupree we will see every year; that the constant nagging injuries will not resurface; or that his improvement doesn't have a HELL of a lot to do with the other players on the defense.

    It will also give us an extra year to see if we can find anyone else to play the position adequately in the event that re-signing him is too expensive. Let's face it, Watt is thr absolute #1 priority to keep in a year or two, and I cannot see us allocating $40M in cap space to the OLB position alone. Just doesn't work.

    Franchise tag for OLBs is surprisingly lower than I thought (for 2019, at least). I am not 100% sure exactly how it is calculated, but I seem to remember a lot of recent years where it had been near $20M, probably because one or two guys' ridiculous signing bonuses pushed it way up.
    I think its averaged on the top 5 contracts at that position.


  29. #149
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    So how much to pay him? $15 mil a season?
    You'd trade him for a 7th round pick, right?

  30. #150
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    Re: Bud Dupree

    This site projects the 2020 LB Franchise tag to be $16.26 million - https://overthecap.com/franchise-tra...d-rfa-tenders/

    Looking at this table: https://overthecap.com/position/3-4-outside-linebacker/

    If you can get Dupree to put his name on a contract with a $12-16 million dollar annual value, you do it. In fact, if you could get Dupree to agree to something like this: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-ba...s-smith-16848/ that might be a best case scenario. It gives you an out after 2 seasons and the big money is really in a garbage year that you have no intention of letting Dupree get to anyways.

    Now, if the Steelers internal player evaluation process/models says that 2019 Dupree is a flash in the pan and not based on repeatable variables, then let him walk.

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