Bud Dupree

[Mojouw]

I would be more inclined to pay a lot less money for someone else, who would then become this version of Dupree because he is opposite Watt.

Right. The magical "random other OLB" that litters the NFL free agent landscape. The Steelers have versions of that guy. Their names are Anthony Chickillo, Jayrone Elliot, and Toledo Alphabet Soup. And they all kinda stink.

You are imagining a player that exists, MAYBE, once every 3 off-season cycles. Perhaps we are seeing one in Shaq Barrett this season. But he hasn't been as consistent nor as good against the run.

Put it this way. On one of what actually ended up being the 3-4 "big" Cleveland plays that decided the game last night. Elliot was playing one of his handful of snaps. Closes in all alone on Baker. Baker fakes him off his feet and completes a pass. Random OLB does that. 2019 Dupree puts Mayfield on his back.

I will freely admit that there is a significantly more than non-zero chance that big $$$ 2020-2024 Dupree is not 2019 Dupree. But what if he is...?

[steelreserve]

Right. The magical "random other OLB" that litters the NFL free agent landscape. The Steelers have versions of that guy. Their names are Anthony Chickillo, Jayrone Elliot, and Toledo Alphabet Soup. And they all kinda stink.

You are imagining a player that exists, MAYBE, once every 3 off-season cycles. Perhaps we are seeing one in Shaq Barrett this season. But he hasn't been as consistent nor as good against the run.

Put it this way. On one of what actually ended up being the 3-4 "big" Cleveland plays that decided the game last night. Elliot was playing one of his handful of snaps. Closes in all alone on Baker. Baker fakes him off his feet and completes a pass. Random OLB does that. 2019 Dupree puts Mayfield on his back.

I will freely admit that there is a significantly more than non-zero chance that big $$$ 2020-2024 Dupree is not 2019 Dupree. But what if he is...?

Man, this again.

The "random other OLB" is not a bottom-of-the-barrel UDFA picked up in midseason. Free agents are not only $15 million or minimum-salary garbage. Draft picks are not only first-round premium picks or 6th-round projects who hang around way too long. It is like for some reason, for the Dupree conversation in particular, every variable and every outcome has to be an extreme. There are no in-betweens, no such thing as average. And the result is Dupree or nothing; Dupree is the ONLY viable answer.

Stop it. This is not some impossible problem. Other teams figure it out all the time. I don't know why you have been riding this guy's dick so hard ever since they announced the option a year and a half ago, but it is far from the only thing we can do.

[Mojouw]

Man, this again.

The "random other OLB" is not a bottom-of-the-barrel UDFA picked up in midseason. Free agents are not only $15 million or minimum-salary garbage. Draft picks are not only first-round premium picks or 6th-round projects who hang around way too long. It is like for some reason, for the Dupree conversation in particular, every variable and every outcome has to be an extreme. There are no in-betweens, no such thing as average. And the result is Dupree or nothing; Dupree is the ONLY viable answer.

Stop it. This is not some impossible problem. Other teams figure it out all the time. I don't know why you have been riding this guy's dick so hard ever since they announced the option a year and a half ago, but it is far from the only thing we can do.

Fine. But you have yet to offer one single example of a player that you insists exists and can be obtained each and every off-season cycle.

Actually, free agency is exactly $15 million or minimum salary garbage. Look at the Steelers. Steve Nelson on one hand and Moncrief and Barron on the other. That is free agency. And, yes I know that the numbers are a bit off, but Nelson counts $10 million on the cap every year after this year. That is a good size chunk of change.

Where are all the $6-8$ million dollar free agent pass rushers? Where are all these 6-10 sack mid round draft picks?

Here is the current list of ALL veteran OLB contracts in the entire league: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contract.../type-veteran/
You have a group at $10-23 million per season that doesn't suck and a group at $4-8 million per year that does in terms of racking up big sack #'s. Sacks get paid.

Between 2015 and 2019 there were 147 DEs and OLBs drafted in rounds 2-7. Only 17 of those players have double digit sacks in their careers. 5 of those 17 players just got paid this past off-season (Clark, Hunter, and the two Smiths).

I really want to live in your version of the NFL and roster construction. It would be amazing. But I just can not find more than a tiny few examples of what you are envisioning. The Ravens chose not to pay their pass rushers and now rank 29th in sacks. They ranked 11th last season.

The 2020 Steelers defense minus Bud Dupree will be noticeably worse at rushing the passer. Does that mean they HAVE to back up the money truck? No. But they will struggle to find a replacement and that struggle will have a noticeable negative impact on the defense. It is entirely possible that impact can be more than off-set from Bush and Edmunds taking another step forward. Tuitt remaining healthy and some reinforcements arriving via the 3rd round or so of the draft.

[Fire Goodell]

We really coulda used a dong sack yesterday

[steelreserve]

Fine. But you have yet to offer one single example of a player that you insists exists and can be obtained each and every off-season cycle.

I mean, Shaq Barrett was one of the 3 or 4 guys I kept saying were worth a look this very offseason.

You don't need to get that player every single offseason, you just need him once and you're good for a few years.

You don't need someone superior to Dupree either, or even equal. They just have to be good enough to be Captain Dong. That is somewhere around Jason Worilds level, and if you're going to tell me THOSE players don't exist in ample numbers, I am gonna guess you took the day off work to get a head start on a long weekend smoking crack.

[Mojouw]

I mean, Shaq Barrett was one of the 3 or 4 guys I kept saying were worth a look this very offseason.

You don't need to get that player every single offseason, you just need him once and you're good for a few years.

You don't need someone superior to Dupree either, or even equal. They just have to be good enough to be Captain Dong. That is somewhere around Jason Worilds level, and if you're going to tell me THOSE players don't exist in ample numbers, I am gonna guess you took the day off work to get a head start on a long weekend smoking crack.

Look at the stats provided. If we assume the basis for this conversation is even 8 sacks let alone double digits, that is 10 million or more in UFA or a first round pick.

There are of course exceptions. We have both previously extolled the virtues of Shaq Barrett. So we have the exception that proves the rule. Lorenzo Alexander is another.

Just because you insist something is true and are entertaining while doing so, doesn't make it true.

Your proposed plan amounts to Kevin Colbert finding a 1 in 100 needle in a pile of broken toys.

[dislocatedday]

There is no doubt that Bud's game has taken a great leap upwards this season. I don't know the exact reasons for this obviously, but the theories have already been provided by others in this thread. The Steelers brass obviously saw something with Bud to pickup the 5th year option.

I don't think his production is going to be that easy to replace honestly if he does leave as a FA. It's tricky because there are only so many cap dollars to go around, and not everyone can get paid at the top end. Hargrave and Bud are the two key FAs this upcoming offseason, and my best guess is the Steelers end up re-signing one of them. Watt's next deal will come due the following year (2021) and I am sure the Steelers are planning a mega-deal for him....and he deserves it IMO. I am going to assume that Minkah keeps ascending as well, and then he likely gets his next contract in 2022.


I don't see a lot of young offensive players on the Steelers who are going to command big $$. JuJu is the obvious candidate coming up, but I don't see him getting a deal that places him in the top 5-8 paid WRs at this point.

If your best young players are on defense, then spend the money to keep them there and intact, and go draft heavy on the offensive side of the ball for the next couple years. That would be my strategy.

[Craic]

I mean, Shaq Barrett was one of the 3 or 4 guys I kept saying were worth a look this very offseason.

You don't need to get that player every single offseason, you just need him once and you're good for a few years.

You don't need someone superior to Dupree either, or even equal. They just have to be good enough to be Captain Dong. That is somewhere around Jason Worilds level, and if you're going to tell me THOSE players don't exist in ample numbers, I am gonna guess you took the day off work to get a head start on a long weekend smoking crack.

However, aren't those the same players you accuse the Steelers of holding on for too long and use part of your conclusion that Tomlin isn't a good coach? If it is, then you can't have it both ways. If it isn't, then refresh my memory cause I'm getting old. (No snark here. I really am getting old and don't remember!)

[Steeldude]

Bud Dupree 26 sacks in 5 seasons. You just can't find that kind of output. The guy is a juggernaut.
But it's not over yet. Now the ungodly amount of tackles accumulated by this Spartan warrior is 172. That is roughly 35.5 tackles a season.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, Shaq Barrett was one of the 3 or 4 guys I kept saying were worth a look this very offseason.

You don't need to get that player every single offseason, you just need him once and you're good for a few years.

You don't need someone superior to Dupree either, or even equal. They just have to be good enough to be Captain Dong. That is somewhere around Jason Worilds level, and if you're going to tell me THOSE players don't exist in ample numbers, I am gonna guess you took the day off work to get a head start on a long weekend smoking crack.

I don't get the blind attraction to Dupree either. They guy is average at best, but his followers slobber over him.

[teegre]

Question:
Who do you take Melvin Ingram or Bud Dupree?

The last five seasons:

Ingram 40.5 sacks, 251 tackles
Dupree 26.0 sacks, 172 tackles

[Mojouw]

Sigh. I don't know how to say this any plainer. It isn't that I am so in love with Dupree. It is that a dispassionate assessment of OLB production across the Steelers roster and the league demonstrates that the player everyone seems to assume exists just doesn't. This board has made a straw man up. A 6-8 million dollar per year UFA or 3-4th round draft pick who can play good run defense, operate in space, and then dong his way to 8-12 sacks opposite Watt and behind Heyward. I keep hearing about how this player exists. Then all anyone can come up with is Shaq Barrett and literally NO ONE else.

Barrett is basically Dupree light. A guy who the team who drafted him believed in so much that they drafted Chubb incredibly high to replace him. Then he signs a one year cheapo contract to bet on himself and performs well in a contract year. So even if we assume that Barrett is legit going to perform like 2019 moving forward, he isn't signing for under double digits per year again in free agency. So, maybe there is some other 4th year to this point failed draft prospect that the Steelers can sign and roll the dice on in 2020? That isn't a plan, that is a fantasy.

As for Melvin Ingram and Dupree, you have to set the context.

Seasons 1-5:
Dupree 26 sacks. Ingram: 24.5

After his 5th season, Ingram was signed to a 4 year 64 million dollar deal. He has since had 22 sacks. But I suspect that some of those don't count because he is now opposite Bosa.

My point Melvin Ingram is Bud Dupree just drafted 3 years earlier. Flashed potential. Struggled with injuries and putting it all together. Questions if his success was due to him or the other players in the system. There is a clear blueprint for how NFL teams value guys on Bud Dupree's EXACT career path.

So say you dont want to pay Dupree. Awesome. That is an arguably really really fiscally responsible decision. Now you have to replace him. I would actually argue you have to replace every OLB on the roster not named Watt. So the team has two options in 2020. UFA and the draft. Getting a guy who put up Dupree's stats in FA would cost as much or more than Dupree would. So that is going to be hard to justify. While I would gladly concede that Ngakoue, Chris Jones, and a few others are pending UFA who are better than Dupree. But they are believed to be able to get $17 million plus on the open market. SO that isn't going to happen. Looking at what the next tier of guys are, you are looking at $4 million to $8 million per year for guys that are exactly what Dupree is believed to be on this board -- guys under 27-28 that have been draft disappointments for their current team. Have not had their rookie contracts extended. So you have to hope very hard that the Steelers pro scouting department and coaching staff can identify guys who just need a change of scenery or system to blossom into an above average OLB.

Or, even with all the other roster issues on the team, you can spend a 2nd and a 3rd and try and get a guy or guys that way. The last 5 draft classes have demonstrated that finding these big sack guys outside of the first round is really really hard. Look at this list -- http://pfref.com/tiny/HmOdI -- it is not a source for optimism.

So it isn't that I gaze upon Bud Dupree in love and admiration. It is that I look at the information available to me and unless I am missing something, determine that the last 5-6 years in the NFL make a compelling argument that when you have a player performing like 2019 Bud Dupree is, you should think long and hard about moving on from them.

1. They cost either money or high draft picks to replace.
2. Cobbling together a pass rush from multiple replacement players can and has had negative impacts on defenses across the league. Ravens are most recent example. Went from 11th to 29th or so. Green Bay got so tired of playing "random other OLB" across from Matthews, they spent $32+ million dollars on a matched set.
3. So while Bud Dupree is hardcore buyer beware -- there is just as strong buyer beware on the other side of the argument.

[DesertSteel]

Sigh. I don't know how to say this any plainer. It isn't that I am so in love with Dupree. It is that a dispassionate assessment of OLB production across the Steelers roster and the league demonstrates that the player everyone seems to assume exists just doesn't. This board has made a straw man up. A 6-8 million dollar per year UFA or 3-4th round draft pick who can play good run defense, operate in space, and then dong his way to 8-12 sacks opposite Watt and behind Heyward. I keep hearing about how this player exists. Then all anyone can come up with is Shaq Barrett and literally NO ONE else.

Barrett is basically Dupree light. A guy who the team who drafted him believed in so much that they drafted Chubb incredibly high to replace him. Then he signs a one year cheapo contract to bet on himself and performs well in a contract year. So even if we assume that Barrett is legit going to perform like 2019 moving forward, he isn't signing for under double digits per year again in free agency. So, maybe there is some other 4th year to this point failed draft prospect that the Steelers can sign and roll the dice on in 2020? That isn't a plan, that is a fantasy.

As for Melvin Ingram and Dupree, you have to set the context.

Seasons 1-5:
Dupree 26 sacks. Ingram: 24.5

After his 5th season, Ingram was signed to a 4 year 64 million dollar deal. He has since had 22 sacks. But I suspect that some of those don't count because he is now opposite Bosa.

My point Melvin Ingram is Bud Dupree just drafted 3 years earlier. Flashed potential. Struggled with injuries and putting it all together. Questions if his success was due to him or the other players in the system. There is a clear blueprint for how NFL teams value guys on Bud Dupree's EXACT career path.

So say you dont want to pay Dupree. Awesome. That is an arguably really really fiscally responsible decision. Now you have to replace him. I would actually argue you have to replace every OLB on the roster not named Watt. So the team has two options in 2020. UFA and the draft. Getting a guy who put up Dupree's stats in FA would cost as much or more than Dupree would. So that is going to be hard to justify. While I would gladly concede that Ngakoue, Chris Jones, and a few others are pending UFA who are better than Dupree. But they are believed to be able to get $17 million plus on the open market. SO that isn't going to happen. Looking at what the next tier of guys are, you are looking at $4 million to $8 million per year for guys that are exactly what Dupree is believed to be on this board -- guys under 27-28 that have been draft disappointments for their current team. Have not had their rookie contracts extended. So you have to hope very hard that the Steelers pro scouting department and coaching staff can identify guys who just need a change of scenery or system to blossom into an above average OLB.

Or, even with all the other roster issues on the team, you can spend a 2nd and a 3rd and try and get a guy or guys that way. The last 5 draft classes have demonstrated that finding these big sack guys outside of the first round is really really hard. Look at this list -- http://pfref.com/tiny/HmOdI -- it is not a source for optimism.

So it isn't that I gaze upon Bud Dupree in love and admiration. It is that I look at the information available to me and unless I am missing something, determine that the last 5-6 years in the NFL make a compelling argument that when you have a player performing like 2019 Bud Dupree is, you should think long and hard about moving on from them.

1. They cost either money or high draft picks to replace.
2. Cobbling together a pass rush from multiple replacement players can and has had negative impacts on defenses across the league. Ravens are most recent example. Went from 11th to 29th or so. Green Bay got so tired of playing "random other OLB" across from Matthews, they spent $32+ million dollars on a matched set.
3. So while Bud Dupree is hardcore buyer beware -- there is just as strong buyer beware on the other side of the argument.

But he's no James Harrison.

[pczach]

But he's no James Harrison.

[Steeldude]

But he's no James Harrison.

He is more like Carlos Emmons or a lesser version of Clark Haggans.

[st33lersguy]

They are going to have to pay to keep Fitzpatrick and Watt in the future, and it may be essential to pay Bush as well based on his trajectory. It will be hard to keep both Bud and Hargrave and I'd rather keep Hargrave instead of the guy who just showed up year 5 on the contract year. They are asking for trouble forking over franchise pass rusher money

[86WARD]

They are going to have to pay to keep Fitzpatrick and Watt in the future, and it may be essential to pay Bush as well based on his trajectory. It will be hard to keep both Bud and Hargrave and I'd rather keep Hargrave instead of the guy who just showed up year 5 on the contract year. They are asking for trouble forking over franchise pass rusher money

Right. Watt, Fitzpatrick and most likely Bush HAVE to get paid. Everything else fits in around those three.

[teegre]

Right. Watt, Fitzpatrick and most likely Bush HAVE to get paid. Everything else fits in around those three.

The good news is that (due to the CBA) teams can not extend rookies until the fourth year of being in the NFL.

2020 extend Watt
2021 extend Fitzpatrick
2022 extend Bush

[teegre]

My point Melvin Ingram is Bud Dupree

That was my point, as well.

Igram was Dupree for four seasons: injured and underperforming. If we look at Ingram’s first four seasons, they are eerily similar to Dupree’s.

Then, Ingram gets healthy and plays very well... much like... Dupree.

[HollywoodSteel]

When someone uses the term “slobbering over Dupree” I can pretty much assume their argument will be emotionally driven. He didn’t live up to his draft status soon enough. Fine. It’s not relevant going forward.

Right now he’s really good against the pass and run in our system. If he stays in our system he will not regress.

Our defense is objectively better with him than it will be with some theoretical $6 million dollar a year OLB, if such a thing even exists. I still haven’t heard any names.

The only question is, can we afford Dupree given our need to sign other players? If the answer is no, then it is. And we’ll just go ahead and be worse for it. Not every team gets a pair of really good OLBs. Too bad our year with them was wasted on not having Ben.

But let’s not pretend Dupree is a liability. Or that there is not a SIGNIFICANT drop off from Dupree to any of our backup OLBs.

Everything Mojouw said is correct. It’s not based on some irrational love for Bud. It’s an objective assessment of the situation.

Feel free to accuse me of slobbering over Dupree because I had faith in him after last season that he’d improve dramatically, and I would have made the unpopular decision to sign him long term at a reasonable price rather than pay his fifth year option.

Maybe it affects me because I was right about this, and my powers of prediction are rarely very good.

[pczach]

When someone uses the term “slobbering over Dupree” I can pretty much assume their argument will be emotionally driven. He didn’t live up to his draft status soon enough. Fine. It’s not relevant going forward.

Right now he’s really good against the pass and run in our system. If he stays in our system he will not regress.

Our defense is objectively better with him than it will be with some theoretical $6 million dollar a year OLB, if such a thing even exists. I still haven’t heard any names.

The only question is, can we afford Dupree given our need to sign other players? If the answer is no, then it is. And we’ll just go ahead and be worse for it. Not every team gets a pair of really good OLBs. Too bad our year with them was wasted on not having Ben.

But let’s not pretend Dupree is a liability. Or that there is not a SIGNIFICANT drop off from Dupree to any of our backup OLBs.

Everything Mojouw said is correct. It’s not based on some irrational love for Bud. It’s an objective assessment of the situation.

Feel free to accuse me of slobbering over Dupree because I had faith in him after last season that he’d improve dramatically, and I would have made the unpopular decision to sign him long term at a reasonable price rather than pay his fifth year option.

Maybe it affects me because I was right about this, and my powers of prediction are rarely very good.

It will be even more frustrating if and when Dupree goes somewhere else and plays well. Then we have to listen to some of the same people say that he is only playing well because he now has good coaching. They will never admit they were wrong about him, and that it just took him longer to develop and improve

because he had some real injury issues. Once he fully developed his game and stayed healthy, he became a good player.

You have to try to understand the mindset of someone that states that any person at this message board that says anything positive about Dupree is slobbering over him. When people make up their minds about someone and refuse to accept real,

tangible evidence that goes against their preexisting stance on a player, they lash out at anyone that doesn't agree with them. It doesn't matter if that person knows anything about football or not. Their opinion is correct because they say it is.

[steelreserve]

It will be even more frustrating if and when Dupree goes somewhere else and plays well. Then we have to listen to some of the same people say that he is only playing well because he now has good coaching. They will never admit they were wrong about him, and that it just took him longer to develop and improve because he had some real injury issues. Once he fully developed his game and stayed healthy, he became a good player.

You have to try to understand the mindset of someone that states that any person at this message board that says anything positive about Dupree is slobbering over him. When people make up their minds about someone and refuse to accept real, tangible evidence that goes against their preexisting stance on a player, they lash out at anyone that doesn't agree with them. It doesn't matter if that person knows anything about football or not. Their opinion is correct because they say it is.

The real, tangible evidence is that Dupree has had four below-average to outright poor seasons, and one-half of one pretty-good season.

Why is it now a foregone conclusion that he will continue to play at a high level, that he will not regress, and that he will remain injury-free from now on? Why is it assumed that THIS is what's normal and the other 85% of his career is the exception, when the available evidence is 4-to-1 the other way around?

Oh, that's right, it's because we're haters who are just pointlessly stubborn for no reason whatsoever. You know all about football and we don't. You can see what's happening and we're blind. You can think logically and we can't. There is absolutely no reason why anyone would ever have a moment's hesitation to quickly and permanently change their opinion about a player after several years of miserable performance - why, the only reason they would be skeptical at all is because they're arrogant, delusional, borderline sociopaths who just cannot BEAR to admit they're ever wrong about anything.

You have to understand the mindset of these people, or something. We're just dumb football fans and you're ... some kind of super-fan, I guess.

How's that saying go? "Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me?" Is there a version of that for if you get fooled five times?

[pczach]

The real, tangible evidence is that Dupree has had four below-average to outright poor seasons, and one-half of one pretty-good season.

Why is it now a foregone conclusion that he will continue to play at a high level, that he will not regress, and that he will remain injury-free from now on? Why is it assumed that THIS is what's normal and the other 85% of his career is the exception, when the available evidence is 4-to-1 the other way around?

Oh, that's right, it's because we're haters who are just pointlessly stubborn for no reason whatsoever. You know all about football and we don't. You can see what's happening and we're blind. You can think logically and we can't. There is absolutely no reason why anyone would ever have a moment's hesitation to quickly and permanently change their opinion about a player after several years of miserable performance - why, the only reason they would be skeptical at all is because they're arrogant, delusional, borderline sociopaths who just cannot BEAR to admit they're ever wrong about anything.

You have to understand the mindset of these people, or something. We're just dumb football fans and you're ... some kind of super-fan, I guess.

How's that saying go? "Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me?" Is there a version of that for if you get fooled five times?

Did you say that people that are fans of Bud Dupree are slobbering all over him?

If not, I guess I wasn't talking to you. I was talking specifically about people that would make dumb ass comments about other people here slobbering all over Dupree. If that's you...then I guess I am.

In my first sentence, I say "if and when". Maybe that's your definition of a foregone conclusion. For some of us, that means that it depends on if the situation plays out a certain way. But hey, there I go again talking about something that may potentially happen, and saying what certain Archie Bunker types may say if that were to happen.....weird.

If the shoe fits....

If it doesn't, then I guess I understand people having reasonable doubts about signing Dupree to a long-term contract as I've said in other posts in different threads on this message board. Reasons like you list sarcastically in your response.

Maybe....just maybe.....someone here is overreacting.....and it's not me.

Maybe the enlightened, non-stubborn, football savant is the guy describing anyone that makes a positive comment about Dupree as someone who is "slobbering over him".

You decide.

[steelreserve]

You decide.

Fair enough! The Dupree situation has red flags all over it, and he's poised to be a huge disappointment if given an extension. The people who can't see this are dumb. You're overreacting and I'm the enlightened football savant.

There, it's decided!

[Steeldude]

The real, tangible evidence is that Dupree has had four below-average to outright poor seasons, and one-half of one pretty-good season.

Why is it now a foregone conclusion that he will continue to play at a high level, that he will not regress, and that he will remain injury-free from now on? Why is it assumed that THIS is what's normal and the other 85% of his career is the exception, when the available evidence is 4-to-1 the other way around?

Oh, that's right, it's because we're haters who are just pointlessly stubborn for no reason whatsoever. You know all about football and we don't. You can see what's happening and we're blind. You can think logically and we can't. There is absolutely no reason why anyone would ever have a moment's hesitation to quickly and permanently change their opinion about a player after several years of miserable performance - why, the only reason they would be skeptical at all is because they're arrogant, delusional, borderline sociopaths who just cannot BEAR to admit they're ever wrong about anything.

You have to understand the mindset of these people, or something. We're just dumb football fans and you're ... some kind of super-fan, I guess.

How's that saying go? "Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me?" Is there a version of that for if you get fooled five times?

It reminds me of the Kordell days.

[pczach]

Fair enough! The Dupree situation has red flags all over it, and he's poised to be a huge disappointment if given an extension. The people who can't see this are dumb. You're overreacting and I'm the enlightened football savant.

There, it's decided!

Somehow I knew you would find a way out!

[RunNGun]

The real, tangible evidence is that Dupree has had four below-average to outright poor seasons, and one-half of one pretty-good season.

Why is it now a foregone conclusion that he will continue to play at a high level, that he will not regress, and that he will remain injury-free from now on? Why is it assumed that THIS is what's normal and the other 85% of his career is the exception, when the available evidence is 4-to-1 the other way around?

Oh, that's right, it's because we're haters who are just pointlessly stubborn for no reason whatsoever. You know all about football and we don't. You can see what's happening and we're blind. You can think logically and we can't. There is absolutely no reason why anyone would ever have a moment's hesitation to quickly and permanently change their opinion about a player after several years of miserable performance - why, the only reason they would be skeptical at all is because they're arrogant, delusional, borderline sociopaths who just cannot BEAR to admit they're ever wrong about anything.

You have to understand the mindset of these people, or something. We're just dumb football fans and you're ... some kind of super-fan, I guess.

How's that saying go? "Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me?" Is there a version of that for if you get fooled five times?

Dupree is finally healthy. The scheme has changed to fit his strengths. You saying he has been pathetic is just not true. He's been solid. Not great, but definitely not poor. If we can come up with the money then we gotta try and keep him on the roster.

Keep the defense together. Honestly, there's not one player on our offense that deserves a big time contract besides Decastro. I would be fine with not paying James Conner or Juju. I believe they are both replaceable at positions where there is always an abundance of talent. Pay the defense like someone else mentioned and draft heavy on offense.

[teegre]

Is Dupree’s play “guaranteed” to continue to be at this level? No

Is any free agent’s play “guaranteed” to continue to be at that level? No

SUMMATION:
It’s a risk either way. But, a bird on the hand... (And, it’s a bird that already knows the playbook.)


BTW...
Watt has been on Twitter talking nice about Dupree... about how that now that Dupree is healthy, Watt has a partner in crime. It sounds like Watt wants Dupree to stay. Then again, what does what know... he was “handed” his starting job (Watt didn’t “earn” it). As in: Watt is just slobbering.

[pczach]

Is Dupree’s play “guaranteed” to continue to be at this level? No

Is any free agent’s play “guaranteed” to continue to be at that level? No

SUMMATION:
It’s a risk either way. But, a bird on the hand... (And, it’s a bird that already knows the playbook.)


BTW...
Watt has been on Twitter talking nice about Dupree... about how that now that Dupree is healthy, Watt has a partner in crime. It sounds like Watt wants Dupree to stay. Then again, what does what know... he was “handed” his starting job (Watt didn’t “earn” it). As in: Watt is just slobbering.

Stop slobbering......

[st33lersguy]

Ok, maybe it wouldn't be too bad signing him to say an $8-9 million a year contract, at the absolute most $10 million a year (but not a penny more), and this after either re-signing Hargrave or seeing he won't re-sign at a price that they can afford. However, if he is demanding a serious payday let him walk. They would be making a mistake to pay him as a franchise edge rusher. He is not a franchise edge rusher. At his best, and that is when he is in the right scheme around the right people and when healthy he is an adequate no. 2.

[HollywoodSteel]

I will totally understand if we don’t sign Dupree because he’s too expensive now. I get it. It might be a strategic mistake to spend the money there given our other needs and whatnot.

I’ll let you capologists debate that.

All I’m saying is that I am judging Dupree for who he is now, not how long it’s taken him to get here. He’s good now. He just is.

The reason why I don’t believe he’ll suddenly regress is, why would he? I mean, he’s finally worked on getting better at the things we wanted him to get better at. He’s enjoying being better. He’s figured stuff out... developed more moves, is reacting better situationally.

Why would he decide to suddenly be worse? From all we’ve heard about him from his teammates is that he’s been really working hard at getting better. I think he’s more likely than not to just keep improving.

Remember when we all wanted Ben to get better at studying film, and reading defenses? And then he got better at it?

Did anyone believe he’d then suddenly get worse at it because it took him too long to get there? That’s the part I don’t quite get.