Don't Blame Randy Fichtner

[Craic]

That is something that rookie QBs have to learn by experience. His one shot to an NFL open receiver wound up as an interception because it bounced off of JuJu's hands. Rudolph's just getting into the swing of things. Give him time.

I have no problem with that. My response here is to the idea that we are not getting WRs open because the coaches suck. That's not true at all. WRs are getting open. It's NFL game-speed open. The fault isn't on the coaches. It's on Mason. And, at this point in his career, I have no problem with him having that fault because expecting anything more halfway through his first year is a pipe dream. If he makes it in the NFL, it will be as a precision passer based out of good mechanics. That means timing and repetition, and that could take two or three years to really nail.

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No. Just no.

Yep, that's my response at this point as well. I wanted Duck to stay as a starter because I thought he gave us more options due to a bit stronger arm. But at this point, Mason's done nothing to lose his starter position. Had first-half Mason against Miami continued into second-half Mason and even into this week, then I'd say perhaps we should think about it.

[AtlantaDan]

I have no problem with that. My response here is to the idea that we are not getting WRs open because the coaches suck. That's not true at all. WRs are getting open. It's NFL game-speed open. The fault isn't on the coaches. It's on Mason. And, at this point in his career, I have no problem with him having that fault because expecting anything more halfway through his first year is a pipe dream. If he makes it in the NFL, it will be as a precision passer based out of good mechanics. That means timing and repetition, and that could take two or three years to really nail.

Which puts the Steelers in a quandry.

In the modern NFL the standard plan is to throw the presumed long term starter rookie QB into the deep end in his rookie season and see if he sinks or swims, while running an offense designed for his skill set in preseason. If the QB is not the answer you find out on his rookie contract and start again (usually with a new OC and sometimes new HC as well). Mahomes was not the starter until his second year but Andy Reid was highly confident he knew what he had (Mahomes had a great game in week 17 of 2017) and designed the 2018 offense around Mahomes after Alex Smith was traded.

Mason came in having to run an offense that needed to be redesigned on the fly, by an OC who is not exactly one of the great offensive minds of his generation, from what was assumed would be Ben doing pretty much what he wanted without AB to help make that sort of offense work. Assuming Ben comes back and plays at least one more season, the Steelers may have to decide whether to sign Rudolph to a new deal without him ever getting the bulk of reps in preseason in an offense designed for him rather than Ben or another season to start before his four year rookie deal expires.

Even if Ben struggles through 2020 and then packs it in, not having Rudolph locked to a new deal before the 2021 season runs the risk of Mason having a Dupree-like contract year and then being able to walk or force the Steelers into a bidding war.

Not the best scenario for deciding whether to lay out franchise QB $$ for someone.

Of course, as the linked article in The Ringer discusses, it often is a crap shoot even with a first round QB choice who is given the keys to the cars from day one

How Do NFL Teams Know When a Young QB Is Worth Building Around?

[T]hree basic tests emerged that a quarterback should pass at some point during his first few professional seasons.

1. Is this is a player you can win because of, and not in spite of? ...

2. Do the player’s strengths outnumber his weaknesses?...

3. Has the player had enough opportunity—with proper scheme, coaching, and personnel—to show whether he is a QB you can consistently compete with? The exact time frame needed to answer this question differed among the folks I spoke with, but the ballpark seemed to be around 45 starts, or about three seasons’ worth ...

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1...chell-trubisky

[DesertSteel]

After watching some all-22 from the Colts game, there are a few occasions when Rudolph misses seeing an open receiver. I can tell from the head turns that he literally doesn't see them. Two looks and he's dumping the ball off when another look and he'd see an open receiver down the middle. But the WR's are not getting open very often either. I think Rudolph will improve. If not, we'll weather the storm of 2019 and then see how much Ben has left. I think MR is being told to take what you're given and when he sees the RB open for a 5-yard gain he's taking it. So I still put most of this on Fichtner.

[SteelMember]

I think Mason is scanning the field plenty to make reads... 'cause he's taking enough time to go through the progressions twice in some cases.

There are two things happening here, imo. He wants to get rid of the ball quickly, but make a safe play. He looks for the primary read, then either makes that pass or goes to the checkdown.
We talk about the "window" of open in the NFL, and most times the QB has to see it before it actually happens. (Ben's favorite back shoulder throw) Sometimes you actually have to throw a guy open. (using your eyes to look off a defender)
I just don't think he's comfortable yet of making/projecting the defensive reads and is too afraid of throwing an easy interception. Once he starts "seeing" it, whether it be from repetition and/or reviewing the film, the decisions should come faster... you'd hope anyways.

I don't mind him managing the game in safe mode for now until he gets more tape. I would like to see him get more consistency on his technique though. Even short passes seem off at times, and that's mostly on his body position. Control the nerves and work on the mechanics, because that will be the path to better play for him in the short term.

[Mojouw]

Mason Rudolph has not exhibited a single "signature" skill to build an offense around. I keep reading that Fichtner is holding him back by forcing Mason to run an offense not suited to his skill set. What offense would be suited to his skill set?

A 3 RB 2 TE offense with all checkdown routes out to the flat? 1 WR and the rest offensive lineman so he can hold the ball for 6-12 seconds before deciding to throw it away?

We can talk all we want about how Mahomes, Prescott, Wilson, Watson, etc got offenses designed for their abilities. That is because those abilities are quantum leaps from anything that Mason Rudolph has exhibited to date.

Honestly, Fichtner is designing an offense for Mason Rudolph. It is hyper conservative, asks him to do next to nothing, insulates him from the pass rush, allows him to rarely have to challenge NFL DBs at any level of the field, and moves the ball just enough to stay competitive.

I am no huge flag waver for Randy the OC, but at some point I am going to call it like I see it. Mason Rudolph is a hyper risk averse QB with inconsistent mechanics, mediocre arm strength, poor ball placement, and an inability to make quick/decisive moves through his progressions.

Can he improve on all that? I would think so. I mean, what would worse look like? Trubisky? Darnold?

[NCSteeler]

I would think this is where coaching comes in and they get him to look for the open man on certain plays in certain areas. It’s not rocket science. Rudolph is tall, I’m sure he can see downfield.

i’m suspecting the ‘coaching him up’ is not all there.

is it any coincidence that Dupree started playing well after the change at linebackers coach ? Sometimes coaching makes a big difference

Considering we do not employ a QB coach...you're probably correct

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[DesertSteel]

Mason Rudolph has not exhibited a single "signature" skill to build an offense around. I keep reading that Fichtner is holding him back by forcing Mason to run an offense not suited to his skill set. What offense would be suited to his skill set?

A 3 RB 2 TE offense with all checkdown routes out to the flat? 1 WR and the rest offensive lineman so he can hold the ball for 6-12 seconds before deciding to throw it away?

We can talk all we want about how Mahomes, Prescott, Wilson, Watson, etc got offenses designed for their abilities. That is because those abilities are quantum leaps from anything that Mason Rudolph has exhibited to date.

Honestly, Fichtner is designing an offense for Mason Rudolph. It is hyper conservative, asks him to do next to nothing, insulates him from the pass rush, allows him to rarely have to challenge NFL DBs at any level of the field, and moves the ball just enough to stay competitive.

I am no huge flag waver for Randy the OC, but at some point I am going to call it like I see it. Mason Rudolph is a hyper risk averse QB with inconsistent mechanics, mediocre arm strength, poor ball placement, and an inability to make quick/decisive moves through his progressions.

Can he improve on all that? I would think so. I mean, what would worse look like? Trubisky? Darnold?

I think you're being way too hard on him. But I'm sure you'd be the first to be happy if you're wrong.

[Mojouw]

I think you're being way too hard on him. But I'm sure you'd be the first to be happy if you're wrong.

Of course I would. But, put it this way, if Mason Rudolph was doing exactly what he is doing for the Steelers for another team -- would anyone on this board defend his potential as an NFL QB?

According to posts on not Jets and Browns websites, Darnold and Mayfield are total and completely unsalvageable busts and should be replaced. They are playing better than Rudolph.

[NCSteeler]

Which puts the Steelers in a quandry.

In the modern NFL the standard plan is to throw the presumed long term starter rookie QB into the deep end in his rookie season and see if he sinks or swims, while running an offense designed for his skill set in preseason. If the QB is not the answer you find out on his rookie contract and start again (usually with a new OC and sometimes new HC as well). Mahomes was not the starter until his second year but Andy Reid was highly confident he knew what he had (Mahomes had a great game in week 17 of 2017) and designed the 2018 offense around Mahomes after Alex Smith was traded.

Mason came in having to run an offense that needed to be redesigned on the fly, by an OC who is not exactly one of the great offensive minds of his generation, from what was assumed would be Ben doing pretty much what he wanted without AB to help make that sort of offense work. Assuming Ben comes back and plays at least one more season, the Steelers may have to decide whether to sign Rudolph to a new deal without him ever getting the bulk of reps in preseason in an offense designed for him rather than Ben or another season to start before his four year rookie deal expires.

Even if Ben struggles through 2020 and then packs it in, not having Rudolph locked to a new deal before the 2021 season runs the risk of Mason having a Dupree-like contract year and then being able to walk or force the Steelers into a bidding war.

Not the best scenario for deciding whether to lay out franchise QB $$ for someone.

Of course, as the linked article in The Ringer discusses, it often is a crap shoot even with a first round QB choice who is given the keys to the cars from day one

How Do NFL Teams Know When a Young QB Is Worth Building Around?

[T]hree basic tests emerged that a quarterback should pass at some point during his first few professional seasons.

1. Is this is a player you can win because of, and not in spite of? ...

2. Do the player’s strengths outnumber his weaknesses?...

3. Has the player had enough opportunity—with proper scheme, coaching, and personnel—to show whether he is a QB you can consistently compete with? The exact time frame needed to answer this question differed among the folks I spoke with, but the ballpark seemed to be around 45 starts, or about three seasons’ worth ...

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1...chell-trubisky

I've been accused of just repeating myself, but again don't we think a young QB would benefit from actual position coaching. Idc what Ben needed or wanted! If this team is ever going to draft and develop a young QB they need to start paying respect to position coach. It's absolutely crazy.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[DesertSteel]

Of course I would. But, put it this way, if Mason Rudolph was doing exactly what he is doing for the Steelers for another team -- would anyone on this board defend his potential as an NFL QB?

According to posts on not Jets and Browns websites, Darnold and Mayfield are total and completely unsalvageable busts and should be replaced. They are playing better than Rudolph.

You really think Darnold is playing better than Rudolph?! I'll take Rudy's performance over mono boy. What about Trubisky? Mayfield is putting up more yards, but has 3x the picks.

[Edman]

Of course I would. But, put it this way, if Mason Rudolph was doing exactly what he is doing for the Steelers for another team -- would anyone on this board defend his potential as an NFL QB?

According to posts on not Jets and Browns websites, Darnold and Mayfield are total and completely unsalvageable busts and should be replaced. They are playing better than Rudolph.

No. I would say just Mason is doing his part to help the team win. I don’t care about Mason’s “potential” if it doesn’t lead the team anywhere. Potential can only go so far. If Mason were increasingly careless with the football and offered nothing else otherwise to the teams wins, would you say he was playing better than this other NFL youngster who isn’t making critical mistakes or regressing?

The Browns and Jets are currently in disappointing seasons with greater expectations than the Steelers, with 1st round quarterbacks in their second year with offenses built around them, and they still suck. In fact, Mayfield and Darnold look to have regressed.

Mason Rudolph has this team dreaming again of not only talking playoffs, but potentially a division title after losing Ben and a catastrophic start that usually spells doom. If you think any Brown or Jet fan wouldn’t gladly trade places with the Steelers right now, you’re crazy.

Our season may be shot to hell, but man, our quarterback has POTENTIAL.

[AtlantaDan]

I've been accused of just repeating myself, but again don't we think a young QB would benefit from actual position coaching. Idc what Ben needed or wanted! If this team is ever going to draft and develop a young QB they need to start paying respect to position coach. It's absolutely crazy.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

Agree completely - they had Fichtner as QB coach for a decade when the QBs were Ben and vets like Batch and Leftwich but when Fichtner was promoted to OC they did not backfill the QB coach position when the backups were Dobbs and Rudolph

This came up during the game thread during Mason’s craptastic first half against the Dolphins - I posted this link that 27 of 32 teams had a QB coach as a separate designated position on the coaching staff in 2018

https://es.pn/2v5pvW2

Mason apparently knows he can use some additional coaching and paid for it himself during the offseason

Without the benefit of a dedicated quarterbacks coach like many of his peers around the NFL enjoy, Rudolph has been forced to take it upon himself to find help with his game from outside the organization.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...eason-nfl-news

[Mojouw]

Fair enough. Everyone can think about this however they want to.

I see nothing that makes me think that Mason Rudolph is anything but a limited capability NFL back-up. As bad as Darnold and Mayfield are playing and as poor as their team's records are; I see more to work with in each of those players than I do in Rudolph. Honestly, if Baker Mayfield was behind the Steelers offensive line, that might solve like 70% of his issues. Darnold is also behind a terrible line with few weapons. Even Allen in Carolina and Minshew in Jax look better than Rudolph.

The only thing that Rudolph has on these other QBs is that Rudolph has yet to have the disaster game that the others have had. I guess we could argue that this is his core "skill" -- not screwing the pooch. However, I wold argue that as recently as last season and this off-season, Steelers fans would vehemently argue that a team with a "don't screw it up" QB (say Dalton, A. Smith, R. Tannehill, etc) was a team that the Steelers should easily beat and were not to be taken seriously as a contender.

Now that the Steelers are in that situation, it is another story? Now it is a positive that the QB struggles to throw 5 yards past the line of scrimmage, has seemingly forgotten how to challenge a defense, has sloppy mechanics, and is slow to make reads because he doesn't turn the ball over? I find that hard to get on board with.

Again, I strongly believe that if Mason Rudolph was doing what he is doing for the 2019 Steelers in another uniform and that team came into Heinz Field, everyone would be demanding that the Steelers blow out this "joke" of a team and their "fraudulent game manager QB" by 21+ points.

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Agree completely - they had Fichtner as QB coach for a decade when the QBs were Ben and vets like Batch and Leftwich but when Fichtner was promoted to OC they did not backfill the QB coach position when the backups were Dobbs and Rudolph

This came up during the game thread during Mason’s craptastic first half against the Dolphins - I posted this link that 27 of 32 teams had a QB coach as a separate designated position on the coaching staff in 2018

https://es.pn/2v5pvW2

Mason apparently knows he can use some additional coaching and paid for it himself during the offseason

Without the benefit of a dedicated quarterbacks coach like many of his peers around the NFL enjoy, Rudolph has been forced to take it upon himself to find help with his game from outside the organization.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...eason-nfl-news

While I am totally on-board with the QB coach thing, I do think getting your own coaching in the off-season is a totally common and normal part of NFL life across several positions.

However, I believe that the Steelers coaching staff problems extend beyond a lack of QB. Their staff is old and much of it has "graduated" through their internal system. There is little outside perspective and few "fresh" ideas. For a rough analogy, there is a reason that graduate programs at Universities do not want students to come from their own undergraduate system. It is strongly believed that each student needs to go out and get other perspectives and that the system needs outside thoughts to keep it fresh.

The lack of outside thoughts and youth in the Steelers staff is a problem, in my opinion.

[86WARD]

From what I recall, Rudolph does a fairly good job running the quick decision passes meaning the Patriots style offense. Take the snap, make two reads, throw the pass. Done./,:

Someone who watched the 22 films - what kind of routes are the receivers running? Is the offense creative? Are they running routes that are running receivers open or is it just the basic route tree? Watching the game on TV versus watching other offenses, fichtners offense appears to be very simple and straight forward. Is that an accurate assessment?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Agree completely - they had Fichtner as QB coach for a decade when the QBs were Ben and vets like Batch and Leftwich but when Fichtner was promoted to OC they did not backfill the QB coach position when the backups were Dobbs and Rudolph

This came up during the game thread during Mason’s craptastic first half against the Dolphins - I posted this link that 27 of 32 teams had a QB coach as a separate designated position on the coaching staff in 2018

https://es.pn/2v5pvW2

Mason apparently knows he can use some additional coaching and paid for it himself during the offseason

Without the benefit of a dedicated quarterbacks coach like many of his peers around the NFL enjoy, Rudolph has been forced to take it upon himself to find help with his game from outside the organization.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...eason-nfl-news

Agree. A good QB coach can help development of young QB's who are sitting behind the starter, while the OC is designing gameplan and execution of it and overseeing the entire offensive position groups. Remember when QB coach Tom Clements helped guys like Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox have pro bowl seasons around 2000 - 2003?

This doesn't look like a QB that is afraid to throw the football, but something is causing him to play conservatively and a decent QB coach should be able to help him thru things, IMO.

[AtlantaDan]

While I am totally on-board with the QB coach thing, I do think getting your own coaching in the off-season is a totally common and normal part of NFL life across several positions.

However, I believe that the Steelers coaching staff problems extend beyond a lack of QB. Their staff is old and much of it has "graduated" through their internal system. There is little outside perspective and few "fresh" ideas. For a rough analogy, there is a reason that graduate programs at Universities do not want students to come from their own undergraduate system. It is strongly believed that each student needs to go out and get other perspectives and that the system needs outside thoughts to keep it fresh.

The lack of outside thoughts and youth in the Steelers staff is a problem, in my opinion.

Just noting Rudolph was motivated enough to seek out the coaching he was not getting in 2018 while Fichtner seemed to be overwhelmed with "play calling" (aka sending in suggestions to Ben - to me that was like the little kid "cutting" the grass with his toy lawnmower or riding in the shopping cart with the steering wheel) after not having done so since he was at University of Memphis over a decade before

You are spot on with the hiring and hanging on of cronies such as Joey Porter along with internal promotions for offensive line coach and both coordinators. Although in defense of Butler he turned down outside promotions when LeBeau was DC with my understanding he was told he was the DC in waiting - nobody tried to hire Fichtner away to be an OC until he was promoted to give Ben a valet. Teryl Austin is one of the exceptions to that and the improvement of the secondary after his hiring may be no coincidence

[Mojouw]

Agree. A good QB coach can help development of young QB's who are sitting behind the starter, while the OC is designing gameplan and execution of it and overseeing the entire offensive position groups. Remember when QB coach Tom Clements helped guys like Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox have pro bowl seasons around 2000 - 2003?

This doesn't look like a QB that is afraid to throw the football, but something is causing him to play conservatively and a decent QB coach should be able to help him thru things, IMO.

If a QB coach would help Mason R - then obviously I am all for it. But I will point out that in the highlight reel he is either throwing to wide open players or deep shots with his WR in single coverage with zero safety help. If he is looking for those same scenarios in the NFL - good luck. Additionally, he seems to be throwing to his first read unless the blocking breaks down. So maybe, he does need to play in another system? Or maybe he needs a McVay style coach in his ear up until the snap telling him what there is to do? Maybe he needs more time in the NFL to get his mental game going at a faster pace? I have no idea, but he looks like another really good college QB who becomes "Captain Checkdown" in the NFL. Sam Bradford anyone? Because, right now, Rudolph plays like a healthy Sam Bradford.

[Shoes]

Agree. A good QB coach can help development of young QB's who are sitting behind the starter, while the OC is designing gameplan and execution of it and overseeing the entire offensive position groups. Remember when QB coach Tom Clements helped guys like Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox have pro bowl seasons around 2000 - 2003?

This doesn't look like a QB that is afraid to throw the football, but something is causing him to play conservatively and a decent QB coach should be able to help him thru things, IMO.

Agree 100%

[SteelMember]

Ben had Mark Whipple... I think he was a big influence.
Not having a QB coach seems like someone like Fichtner thinks they know enough to do the job, or the Steelers are in the "more with less" business theory in an effort to save a couple bucks.

[SteelersNorth]

Which puts the Steelers in a quandry.

In the modern NFL the standard plan is to throw the presumed long term starter rookie QB into the deep end in his rookie season and see if he sinks or swims, while running an offense designed for his skill set in preseason. If the QB is not the answer you find out on his rookie contract and start again (usually with a new OC and sometimes new HC as well). Mahomes was not the starter until his second year but Andy Reid was highly confident he knew what he had (Mahomes had a great game in week 17 of 2017) and designed the 2018 offense around Mahomes after Alex Smith was traded.

Mason came in having to run an offense that needed to be redesigned on the fly, by an OC who is not exactly one of the great offensive minds of his generation, from what was assumed would be Ben doing pretty much what he wanted without AB to help make that sort of offense work. Assuming Ben comes back and plays at least one more season, the Steelers may have to decide whether to sign Rudolph to a new deal without him ever getting the bulk of reps in preseason in an offense designed for him rather than Ben or another season to start before his four year rookie deal expires.

Even if Ben struggles through 2020 and then packs it in, not having Rudolph locked to a new deal before the 2021 season runs the risk of Mason having a Dupree-like contract year and then being able to walk or force the Steelers into a bidding war.

Not the best scenario for deciding whether to lay out franchise QB $$ for someone.

Of course, as the linked article in The Ringer discusses, it often is a crap shoot even with a first round QB choice who is given the keys to the cars from day one

How Do NFL Teams Know When a Young QB Is Worth Building Around?

[T]hree basic tests emerged that a quarterback should pass at some point during his first few professional seasons.

1. Is this is a player you can win because of, and not in spite of? ...

2. Do the player’s strengths outnumber his weaknesses?...

3. Has the player had enough opportunity—with proper scheme, coaching, and personnel—to show whether he is a QB you can consistently compete with? The exact time frame needed to answer this question differed among the folks I spoke with, but the ballpark seemed to be around 45 starts, or about three seasons’ worth ...

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1...chell-trubisky

In reference to 1, 2 and 3 I knew as a fan with Ben after I think his 4th start against Dallas, and iced it hammering the Patriots.
I see none of that YET with Rudolph. Personally I find him more of a liability but we're stuck until 2020 :_(
such is life of being an NFL fan

[Mojouw]

So for an interesting benchmark, search for Dak Prescott on this site. The consensus is that he is average and can, at best, pilot a team to a 9-7 record unless everything around him is top notch. Ok, fine.

Then where would Mason Rudolph slot in? Worse than Dak. But better than Darnold, Trubisky, and Baker (since that was made pretty clear). So like the 26th or 28th QB in the league.

I'll buy some of that is coaching. I'll buy some of that is scheme. I'll buy that some of it is inexperience. But I think we need to start contemplating the fact that Mason Rudolph does not demonstrate the tools needed to be a top 50% QB in the NFL.

I'm not sure anything is wrong with that. I'm not blaming anyone associated with the Steelers or even trying to put Rudolph on blast. Just kinda trying to stake out a base point for the overall conversation regarding QB and the 2019 and 2020 Pittsburgh Steelers.

[DesertSteel]

Mojo, until I see him try and fail I’ll not share your conclusive opinion. Your sample size is 5 starts and his record is 3-2 with a 10/4 TD/Int ratio. When the offense gets more vertical and he fails (e.g., come from behind), I’ll join your position.

[Mojouw]

Mojo, until I see him try and fail I’ll not share your conclusive opinion. Your sample size is 5 starts and his record is 3-2 with a 10/4 TD/Int ratio. When the offense gets more vertical and he fails (e.g., come from behind), I’ll join your position.

Also good points. I hope I am way wrong.

But just like you are not ready to make a final determination on Rudolph, I am willing to give the same leeway to Fichtner. While I don't think he is any great shakes as an OC, not sure he is really the major part of the problem.

Although I will concede that it is possible that good ole Randy might not be up to the task of being part of the solution.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

If a QB coach would help Mason R - then obviously I am all for it. But I will point out that in the highlight reel he is either throwing to wide open players or deep shots with his WR in single coverage with zero safety help. If he is looking for those same scenarios in the NFL - good luck. Additionally, he seems to be throwing to his first read unless the blocking breaks down. So maybe, he does need to play in another system? Or maybe he needs a McVay style coach in his ear up until the snap telling him what there is to do? Maybe he needs more time in the NFL to get his mental game going at a faster pace? I have no idea, but he looks like another really good college QB who becomes "Captain Checkdown" in the NFL. Sam Bradford anyone? Because, right now, Rudolph plays like a healthy Sam Bradford.

Actually it isn't the "deep shots" that you mention which I recognize most, but rather that in this OK St highlight pack he is mostly deciding at the LOS who he is throwing to and only getting to a secondary read maybe 30% of the time. Sure the windows are larger in college and the WR's look to have 2-3 steps on their DB's, but in that video series he throws 9's, posts, slants, digs and at times moves to his 2nd and 3rd read, plus evades the rush and scrambles to complete passes. Its not all throwing deep to wide open WR's in fact I recall one deep seam where there was a safety and DB.

Personally, I don't think McVay or any coach is on the headset in a QB ear up until the snap of the football. Its too distracting and that work needs to be done during the week for recognition of defenses, pre snap reads and progressions, blitz protections and recognition.

The point is that he isn't unable to push the ball downfield, but that isn't always the right read either. I think the kid has all the tools to be a decent QB in the NFL and the work he did in the offseason on his footwork was looking good, but who knows if what he learned from Tom House is being contradicted in the current system, or if he is just lapsing from it. Some guys like to pistol/shotgun snap with a spiral, some with a dead ball and some OC's like to reverse pivot on a pitch, while others don't.....you have to do what your coaches on the field tell you and I don't really know or trust that Fichtner is the guy to coach up a young QB, as I don't know the track record of who he has improved ever at QB.

[DesertSteel]

I'm just glad that we all still have something to argue about even though the team has won 4 of 5 with 2nd and 3rd string QBs...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I'm just glad that we all still have something to argue about even though the team has won 4 of 5 with 2nd and 3rd string QBs...

Thing is, the board sounds like they lost 4 of 5.

The saddest thing so far this season was the Steeler fans booing Rudolph against Miami in the 2nd quarter on the 3rd offensive series. It was a point in my life where I was ashamed to be a Steeler fan and be associated with those kinds of douchebags.

[Mojouw]

Actually it isn't the "deep shots" that you mention which I recognize most, but rather that in this OK St highlight pack he is mostly deciding at the LOS who he is throwing to and only getting to a secondary read maybe 30% of the time. Sure the windows are larger in college and the WR's look to have 2-3 steps on their DB's, but in that video series he throws 9's, posts, slants, digs and at times moves to his 2nd and 3rd read, plus evades the rush and scrambles to complete passes. Its not all throwing deep to wide open WR's in fact I recall one deep seam where there was a safety and DB.

Personally, I don't think McVay or any coach is on the headset in a QB ear up until the snap of the football. Its too distracting and that work needs to be done during the week for recognition of defenses, pre snap reads and progressions, blitz protections and recognition.

The point is that he isn't unable to push the ball downfield, but that isn't always the right read either. I think the kid has all the tools to be a decent QB in the NFL and the work he did in the offseason on his footwork was looking good, but who knows if what he learned from Tom House is being contradicted in the current system, or if he is just lapsing from it. Some guys like to pistol/shotgun snap with a spiral, some with a dead ball and some OC's like to reverse pivot on a pitch, while others don't.....you have to do what your coaches on the field tell you and I don't really know or trust that Fichtner is the guy to coach up a young QB, as I don't know the track record of who he has improved ever at QB.

I understand that he is throwing all the routes and whatnot. But he is making one read at the LOS and then hitting a guy who has a pretty good amount of separation from his defender. Not a surprise in a college spread offense. That is exactly what it is designed to do - make the reads clear and obvious pre-snap and have receivers running away from defenders to open space.

In contrast, regardless of system you run in the NFL, you are going to have much more disguise by the defense, and much more contested coverage on receivers. What I see when I watch the games, and I may not be understanding what I am seeing properly, is that the defense is trying to show Mason one thing pre-snap and then do another right after the ball is snapped. It "resets" his reads and decision making. He then takes a long time to process/trust what he is seeing and holds on to the ball. The timing of the entire play breaksdown and he is forced to find a dump off.

As to the McVay in the headset thing, I can only go by what has been widely reported by the Rams, Goff, McVay, and other NFL pundits. Who knows what the truth is.

For the mechanics and whatnot, again, I am not really debating that. But, for me, Mason R has a significant number of things to do with play recognition and decision making before I worry about his footwork. I mean if you can't figure out where the ball is supposed to go, who cares about your mechanics? I think, again solely an opinion, that when Mason gets more confident about his reads, suddenly his mechanics will vastly improve.

[GoSlash27]

I think we're all just gonna have to be patient this year. This isn't going to be the aerial circus offense we've grown accustomed to. Rudolph is still developing and (IMO) hasn't hit his ceiling yet. The game is still fast for him and he's just trying to not screw up. This WR corps also doesn't appear quite as good as previous years, though once Rudolph hones in on what "NFL open" looks like, they may get the chance to prove themselves.
We're going to have to get by with a balanced run/ pass attack and rely on our defense to help out. We don't actually *need* big shots down the field. We just need to stay on schedule and keep the chains moving.

[AtlantaDan]

Thing is, the board sounds like they lost 4 of 5.

The saddest thing so far this season was the Steeler fans booing Rudolph against Miami in the 2nd quarter on the 3rd offensive series. It was a point in my life where I was ashamed to be a Steeler fan and be associated with those kinds of douchebags.

Depends which threads on the board you read to conclude if the team has been playing well or not

It is a tale of two teams - we have threads praising the Minkah trade and Dupree finally playing up to the expectations of a first round pick

But the offense indisputably is horrible with, as is often the case, the QB getting either the credit or the blame - this from Bouchette in The Athletic (paywalled) on the offensive stats and the raggedy crews the Steelers offense is hanging with

The Steelers’ offense ranks 28th in the NFL in yards produced with only the Bears, Dolphins, Redskins and Jets lower. They rank 27th in passing (202.4 per game) and 26th in rushing (88.4). That’s not what their coaches mean when they say they strive for balance on offense.

https://theathletic.com/1350691/2019...shared-article

[dislocatedday]

Depends which threads on the board you read to conclude if the team has been playing well or not

It is a tale of two teams - we have threads praising the Minkah trade and Dupree finally playing up to the expectations of a first round pick

But the offense indisputably is horrible with, as is often the case, the QB getting either the credit or the blame - this from Bouchette in The Athletic (paywalled) on the offensive stats and the raggedy crews the Steelers offense is hanging with

The Steelers’ offense ranks 28th in the NFL in yards produced with only the Bears, Dolphins, Redskins and Jets lower. They rank 27th in passing (202.4 per game) and 26th in rushing (88.4). That’s not what their coaches mean when they say they strive for balance on offense.

https://theathletic.com/1350691/2019...shared-article

Yowzers!!.......I had no idea the Steelers offense was that low in yards produced and ranked at 28th. Being put in any offensive category with the Bears, Dolphins, Jets, and Redskins is not something as a Steelers fan I want to hear.

I guess the defense is playing even better than I thought though since the team is at .500 currently.