ALL 22 of the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly with Rudolph vs. Miami

[Craic]

Until I see a total meltdown in any one game, I am giving him the entire season to make up my mind on his potential. I'm convinced that Fichtner is doing a terrible job handling him - either limiting the game plan or not coaching him up - or both. At this point though, I need to see progress, not more dump-offs.

You keep stating that, but what evidence is there that it falls on Fichtner? This is the type of that to me (and thus, only my opinion), it seems like there's a preset narrative—Pittsburgh coaches suck—and then every piece of evidence is made to fit that narrative. I'm also not sure what you want from the coaches. Coaching him up means limiting the game plan until it is manageable for the QB, and the slowing introducing the QB to the rest of the offense as he can handle it. It would seem (again, my opinion) that those two ideas are almost mutually exclusive, unless Fichtner is simply walking in and throwing a gameplan on the desk, saying, "There it is" and then walking out of the room. Is that what you think is happening?

I think it's something more along the lines of "What did you learn last week, what does the tape show us you learned, so how much can we expand the playbook and then teach you how to use the new plays?" But, in the end, the problem is that it is Mason who is on the field. He is the one who is making the decision to throw the ball. And, he's choosing to hit the check down after looking for other receivers—who are open for normal veteran NFL QBs.

EDIT: That said, I absolutely agree with your last statement. Regardless of who is responsible for the dump offs, we need to see less of them and more downfield throws so we know who we have at the position.

[Shoes]

I totally appreciate your point, and I’m all for withholding judgement on Rudolph...

But the list of mostly top draft picks with sky high ceilings who took awhile to get there doesn’t really tell me one thing or the other about Rudolph’s chances of being great.

If you made a list of QBs who got off to a less than stellar start and then went on to do nothing special in their careers, the list would be too long to read.

If anything Rudolph has to buck the odds to turn out great, especially given his less than incredible physical abilities.
I’m not making a prediction one way or the other, I’m just saying the list doesn’t indicate an obvious trajectory for him.

Agreed, it tells me we need to give this kid time. People seem to think we are on some type of SB run and Mason is going to screw it up. One thing that seems common with all these QB's is they had a coach that tucked them under his wings. I don't think Mason has that at all. He's wedged between Ben and grandma Fichtner.

[Craic]

One thing that seems common with all of them is they had a coach that tucked them under his wings. I don't think Mason has that at all. He's wedged between Ben and grandma Fichtner.

If only we hadn't retired Arians . . .

(Somewhere, Suitanim is laughing his backside off that Arians has gone on to be the head coach of two different NFL franchises).

[DesertSteel]

You keep stating that, but what evidence is there that it falls on Fichtner? This is the type of that to me (and thus, only my opinion), it seems like there's a preset narrative—Pittsburgh coaches suck—and then every piece of evidence is made to fit that narrative. I'm also not sure what you want from the coaches. Coaching him up means limiting the game plan until it is manageable for the QB, and the slowing introducing the QB to the rest of the offense as he can handle it. It would seem (again, my opinion) that those two ideas are almost mutually exclusive, unless Fichtner is simply walking in and throwing a gameplan on the desk, saying, "There it is" and then walking out of the room. Is that what you think is happening?

I think it's something more along the lines of "What did you learn last week, what does the tape show us you learned, so how much can we expand the playbook and then teach you how to use the new plays?" But, in the end, the problem is that it is Mason who is on the field. He is the one who is making the decision to throw the ball. And, he's choosing to hit the check down after looking for other receivers—who are open for normal veteran NFL QBs.

EDIT: That said, I absolutely agree with your last statement. Regardless of who is responsible for the dump offs, we need to see less of them and more downfield throws so we know who we have at the position.

Because I watch enough football to know when a game plan is ultra conservative and remains so until the team falls behind 14-17 points. If and when that happens, we will see Rudolph take shots down the field because his OC is telling him to do so. He's being told to take the safe option and manage the game. When Rudolph came in the first time it was in catch up mode and he just played. Since then he's been on training wheels. And yeah, I think Fichtner sucks as an OC. So you're right about that.

[Mojouw]

Because I watch enough football to know when a game plan is ultra conservative and remains so until the team falls behind 14-17 points. If and when that happens, we will see Rudolph take shots down the field because his OC is telling him to do so. He's being told to take the safe option and manage the game. When Rudolph came in the first time it was in catch up mode and he just played. Since then he's been on training wheels. And yeah, I think Fichtner sucks as an OC. So you're right about that.

What gameplan would you want? This team has a rookie QB who is slow to make decisions, hesitant to throw into even sort of tight windows, throws wounded ducks on several passes due to poor footwork, and has not demonstrated a comfort level with any type of play-call.

Should the OC just be force feeding him route combinations and timing patterns? I mean they kinda are and Mason R is just refusing to take them. The number of open WRs he refuses to put the ball on is astonishing. But be that as it may, Randy Fichtner can't play the game for Mason. At some point the QB has to assume some responsibility for being too hesitant to cut it loose until the scoreboard forces him to.

This is not all that dissimilar to BEn R's rookie year. They cut the playbook way down. They had him roll to a side of the field, make one read, and then throw it away. Rest where handoffs. Relied on defense. Ben just made that look better because he has about 3 times the talent and moxie that Mason R has. Ben trusted his arm that if his read was Ward on a 10 yard out, he threw it. Didn't really care how it looked. Mason sees the same and doesn't throw it because he feels icky about the coverage. So he checks it down. Lives to fight another day.

I also am frustrated by the "checkdown conga" but do not believe this is by design. From the bit I can see on TV and my already flawed memory of the past 2 games, Fichtner is running a legitimate offense. It isn't four isolated vertical routes. There are crossers, and route combinations, etc. Mason R just refuses to throw the ball into any contested areas until he is down 2+ scores.

[DesertSteel]

What gameplan would you want? This team has a rookie QB who is slow to make decisions, hesitant to throw into even sort of tight windows, throws wounded ducks on several passes due to poor footwork, and has not demonstrated a comfort level with any type of play-call.

Should the OC just be force feeding him route combinations and timing patterns? I mean they kinda are and Mason R is just refusing to take them. The number of open WRs he refuses to put the ball on is astonishing. But be that as it may, Randy Fichtner can't play the game for Mason. At some point the QB has to assume some responsibility for being too hesitant to cut it loose until the scoreboard forces him to.

This is not all that dissimilar to BEn R's rookie year. They cut the playbook way down. They had him roll to a side of the field, make one read, and then throw it away. Rest where handoffs. Relied on defense. Ben just made that look better because he has about 3 times the talent and moxie that Mason R has. Ben trusted his arm that if his read was Ward on a 10 yard out, he threw it. Didn't really care how it looked. Mason sees the same and doesn't throw it because he feels icky about the coverage. So he checks it down. Lives to fight another day.

I also am frustrated by the "checkdown conga" but do not believe this is by design. From the bit I can see on TV and my already flawed memory of the past 2 games, Fichtner is running a legitimate offense. It isn't four isolated vertical routes. There are crossers, and route combinations, etc. Mason R just refuses to throw the ball into any contested areas until he is down 2+ scores.

One that progresses at least an inch from one game to the next.

[Born2Steel]

Idk. Rookie QB, Conner out, 2nd yr and rookie RBs plus rehabbed Nix, JuJu doubled every play, Johnson playing well yet still making some rookie mistakes, Wash starting to make some contested plays, OL has been banged up, Offensive scheme has had to be completely retooled. This offense is no juggernaut by any stretch. But this TEAM has won 3 in a row. I think the coaches and players both deserve a bit of appreciation for not just mailing it in at 1-4. These guys have to play nearly perfect at this point to beat anyone and some of you still cry they’re not doing enough. I’m not responding to any one post or poster on this forum but if you are one of those ‘fire the coaches’ guys after the duct tape and baling wire job they have done with this offense I think you’re off your nut. Completely.

Let Rudolph grow at his pace so long as he’s not keeping us from winning and let the coaches use Rudolph how he can best be used right now. If you honestly think you know the situation better than Fichtner or his staff you are definitely off your nut. R-E-L-A-X and enjoy some football for a change.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

. R-E-L-A-X and enjoy some football for a change.

Yup, but a good segment of the fanbase has trouble doing this. I've been thru the lean times as I am sure you have and while people can all bitch about the likes of Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, O'Donnell, Maddox, Kordell.....all those guys started in Steelers playoff games and I enjoyed being a Steelers fan all of those seasons, without going on a weekly complaint session about inexperienced backup QB's and WR's.

[pczach]

Idk. Rookie QB, Conner out, 2nd yr and rookie RBs plus rehabbed Nix, JuJu doubled every play, Johnson playing well yet still making some rookie mistakes, Wash starting to make some contested plays, OL has been banged up, Offensive scheme has had to be completely retooled. This offense is no juggernaut by any stretch. But this TEAM has won 3 in a row. I think the coaches and players both deserve a bit of appreciation for not just mailing it in at 1-4. These guys have to play nearly perfect at this point to beat anyone and some of you still cry they’re not doing enough. I’m not responding to any one post or poster on this forum but if you are one of those ‘fire the coaches’ guys after the duct tape and baling wire job they have done with this offense I think you’re off your nut. Completely.

Let Rudolph grow at his pace so long as he’s not keeping us from winning and let the coaches use Rudolph how he can best be used right now. If you honestly think you know the situation better than Fichtner or his staff you are definitely off your nut. R-E-L-A-X and enjoy some football for a change.

That is exactly correct.

I think there are a lot of people that are underselling how impressive it is that a team that has taken a huge hit in talent has fought like crazy to win football games. Teams don't do that without some excellent coaching.

I've been hard on Butler, but since they added some new pieces and Dupree is playing better the defense has improved. I don't care that they aren't completely snuffing out every offense they face. They have become a team that gives up some plays, but also gets turnovers and gets off the field by creating negative plays with a very good pass rush. Losing Tuitt is a big hit, but I like the fight they have shown since he went down. Fitzpatrick has been a godsend. They now have playmakers at every level of the defense, and each level compliments the other.

Offensively, I don't know what more fans expect Fichtner to be able to do. They've already played three different starting quarterbacks through 8 games. I'm not sure how anyone can look at that in a league that is dominated by quarterback play and demand the head of the guy that has managed to put up some points and help win some games while managing a talent hit that would cripple most franchises.

[Mojouw]

That is exactly correct.

I think there are a lot of people that are underselling how impressive it is that a team that has taken a huge hit in talent has fought like crazy to win football games. Teams don't do that without some excellent coaching.

I've been hard on Butler, but since they added some new pieces and Dupree is playing better the defense has improved. I don't care that they aren't completely snuffing out every offense they face. They have become a team that gives up some plays, but also gets turnovers and gets off the field by creating negative plays with a very good pass rush. Losing Tuitt is a big hit, but I like the fight they have shown since he went down. Fitzpatrick has been a godsend. They now have playmakers at every level of the defense, and each level compliments the other.

Offensively, I don't know what more fans expect Fichtner to be able to do. They've already played three different starting quarterbacks through 8 games. I'm not sure how anyone can look at that in a league that is dominated by quarterback play and demand the head of the guy that has managed to put up some points and help win some games while managing a talent hit that would cripple most franchises.

The Butler scenario is the most intriguing. Arguments could be made that the system only works when it is loaded with talent. Ok, but what defense of the past several years was working at a top 10 level without oodles of talent? Another component is what the new alignment between Tomlin-Butler-Austin (or whatever his name is) is contributing to the 2019 success on defense?

I think that what the first half of this season has shown me is that the "system" (however you want to define it) can work in the current NFL. It simply requires both specific physical attributes in certain players AND a handful of high football IQ players to stitch it all together. I am not trying to say that anyone (myself very much included) has this all figured out, but there have been many interesting debates/discussions on here the last few years about execution versus gameplan on defense. In 2019, has the gameplan changed or the execution simply gone way up? Perhaps a bit of both? I do not know, but hope the Steelers do!

[86WARD]

The Butler scenario is the most intriguing. Arguments could be made that the system only works when it is loaded with talent. Ok, but what defense of the past several years was working at a top 10 level without oodles of talent? Another component is what the new alignment between Tomlin-Butler-Austin (or whatever his name is) is contributing to the 2019 success on defense?

I think that what the first half of this season has shown me is that the "system" (however you want to define it) can work in the current NFL. It simply requires both specific physical attributes in certain players AND a handful of high football IQ players to stitch it all together. I am not trying to say that anyone (myself very much included) has this all figured out, but there have been many interesting debates/discussions on here the last few years about execution versus gameplan on defense. In 2019, has the gameplan changed or the execution simply gone way up? Perhaps a bit of both? I do not know, but hope the Steelers do!

Hate to say it but Patriots in general are playing at Top-5 levels without Top-10 talent. That whole team, including Brady, on paper isn’t nearly as talented as some of the teams in the league. Belichick and his coaching staff deserve all the credit for how that team operates. There’s not a better football mind in the league than their head coach...and it’s not close.

[teegre]

Hate to say it but Patriots in general are playing at Top-5 levels without Top-10 talent. That whole team, including Brady, on paper isn’t nearly as talented as some of the teams in the league. Belichick and his coaching staff deserve all the credit for how that team operates. There’s not a better football mind in the league than their head coach...and it’s not close.

I agree that Belichick is a genius... who gets the most out of second-tier players.

That said...

Kyle Van Noy was regarded by a ton of draftniks as a star. The Lions did what the Lions do (waste talent) and Belichick smartly picked up Van Noy. It’s very similar to what happened with the Steelers and James Farrior.

Danny Shelton has a similar route: drafted by the Bengals, wasted away, and was signed by Belichick.

The McCourty twins, Patrick Chung, and Jamie Collins were all former Taperiots who left for big money. Once they got paid, they came back to the Taperiots for far less than market-value. Maybe Belichick is a genius in the sense that he is able to get guys to play for less money...

Stephon Gilmore was the best (most consistent) CB in the NFL. Belichick smartly traded for him.

SUMMATION:
Belichick is smart... but, his roster is also quite talented.

[DesertSteel]

I agree that Belichick is a genius... who gets the most out of second-tier players.

That said...

Kyle Van Noy was regarded by a ton of draftniks as a star. The Lions did what the Lions do (waste talent) and Belichick smartly picked up Van Noy. It’s very similar to what happened with the Steelers and James Farrior.

Danny Shelton has a similar route: drafted by the Bengals, wasted away, and was signed by Belichick.

The McCourty twins, Patrick Chung, and Jamie Collins were all former Taperiots who left for big money. Once they got paid, they came back to the Taperiots for far less than market-value. Maybe Belichick is a genius in the sense that he is able to get guys to play for less money...

Stephon Gilmore was the best (most consistent) CB in the NFL. Belichick smartly traded for him.

SUMMATION:
Belichick is smart... but, his roster is also quite talented.

But what about the excuse around here that you can’t get enough talent picking at the bottom of the draft? That seems to be our regular excuse. I’m pretty sure the Patriots have been picking lower than us. Sure they pick up some players in FA but they have the same salary cap as the other 31 teams. It pains me but if I was a betting man, I’d bet my house that the Patriots were going to win #7 this year. And it’s not because of individual talent.

[pczach]

The Butler scenario is the most intriguing. Arguments could be made that the system only works when it is loaded with talent. Ok, but what defense of the past several years was working at a top 10 level without oodles of talent? Another component is what the new alignment between Tomlin-Butler-Austin (or whatever his name is) is contributing to the 2019 success on defense?

I think that what the first half of this season has shown me is that the "system" (however you want to define it) can work in the current NFL. It simply requires both specific physical attributes in certain players AND a handful of high football IQ players to stitch it all together. I am not trying to say that anyone (myself very much included) has this all figured out, but there have been many interesting debates/discussions on here the last few years about execution versus gameplan on defense. In 2019, has the gameplan changed or the execution simply gone way up? Perhaps a bit of both? I do not know, but hope the Steelers do!

I think you are correct about Butler and the system. I still think the system in place can work if the right athletic talent is on the field at key positions. My problem with Butler has been that he seemed unwilling to modify they system to maximize the talents of the players he had to work with. If they can feed him enough talent to run the current scheme, it can work. If key players aren't re-signed and the team isn't able to provide him with replacements with the skill sets and abilities to fit into the current defense can he, or is he willing to, change the defensive scheme enough to make it work. I don't think he has shown that yet.

I know all current NFL defenses that don't have enough talent.....suck. There's no way around that. I don't care what scheme you play. If you don't have enough quality players on the field, there are too many mismatches on the field to consistently stop anybody. That's just the way it is.

With all that said, it's plain to see that the defense has made huge strides and has become a big play defense. Butler has also made some nice adjustments in-game to shut down what offenses were trying to do to the defense and having success. His defense is working. I know there are many more games to be played, and Tuitt is out for the season, but he has done a good job to this point with everything. He has incorporated the new talent into the system and gotten immediate results. Yes, the players' talents have a lot to do with it, but has been able to quickly find out what they can do, and let them do it within the confines of the defensive scheme. He has also gotten immediate results, while the players have not gotten brain freeze from the complexities or intricacies of the defense like they did with LeBeau's War and Peace defensive playbook. That in itself is a big positive. They have simplified the system and it just helps players get on the field faster, while also allowing them to play fast on the field because they aren't thinking...they are reacting.

I have to give credit where credit is due. My criticisms of coaches or players mean nothing if I'm not willing to still objectively evaluate what is happening on the field and give credit for things that have succeeded or are good. It's something many here don't seem to understand on a variety of players and coaches.

[teegre]

But what about the excuse around here that you can’t get enough talent picking at the bottom of the draft? That seems to be our regular excuse. I’m pretty sure the Patriots have been picking lower than us. Sure they pick up some players in FA but they have the same salary cap as the other 31 teams. It pains me but if I was a betting man, I’d bet my house that the Patriots were going to win #7 this year. And it’s not because of individual talent.

Excuse? I’m a fan of the Jimmy Johnson “trade down, accumulate picks” approach... which is what Belichick does.

Johnson (and Belichick) believes that you only really hit on “one in three” draft picks. Seven picks means two hits. If you trade down and get 9 picks, you’re likely to hit on that third pick. After five drafts, other teams might have 9-11 good players, whereas you now have 14-17 good players.

The key is taking a guy in R2 (who has blemishes) and turning him into a top tier player. Belichick is masterful at playing to a player’s strengths (while staying away from anything that would expose a weakness). If you hit on two of those guys every five years, that’s 2 more good players (16-19 total).

At the end of R1 is the perfect place to trade down. Other teams are desperate to get into R1, because of the fifth-year option (especially for QBs); so, they often overpay. Ergo, a team that trade down goes from 28 to 34 (only 6 spots) and gets a king’s ransom for the trade down.

[Fire Goodell]

But what about the excuse around here that you can’t get enough talent picking at the bottom of the draft? That seems to be our regular excuse. I’m pretty sure the Patriots have been picking lower than us. Sure they pick up some players in FA but they have the same salary cap as the other 31 teams. It pains me but if I was a betting man, I’d bet my house that the Patriots were going to win #7 this year. And it’s not because of individual talent.

Not really the same contract. Brady's taking a big discount (making $23M this year, last year $15M), at his price point that's highway robbery for a QB of his ability. Brady having a wife that makes a ton of $$$ in a way gives the Patriots cap space that other teams don't have