Idk. I wouldn't want to give a team an out to drafting and signing known dumbasses. Contract wise I still wish NFL would go NBA with full guaranteed contracts. The deals would be more down to earth and less hold outs. Then the teams would honestly know thier salary cap at all times without a super computerOriginally Posted by Ezra Tank
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Since that can take much longer than a full season, I don't know how much good it would do.
The league and teams have set themselves up in a stupid contradiction, where they want to, and are expected to, cut ties with players immediately upon being accused of poor conduct (sometimes not even in criminal court), which means a slapdick "investigation" by woefully unqualified individuals. And at the same time, their convoluted rules have salary cap implications locked in for years at the moment of signing. This is a two-bit example of it, but something like AB or Aaron Hernandez present enormous cases of directly competing interests. But they got themselves into this mess, so I don't feel sorry for them.
As always, I find it absurd that teams are expected to discipline players the moment accusations surface, and the league will take action if not. Imagine that if at any moment, anybody could say you did something, and instead of a trial by judge or jury, your fate was decided by a football coach, with no actual evidence, within a couple of days, based on what he saw on TV.
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I agree. Guilty until proven innocent by a court of football coaches and GM's. At least on the exempt list a guy is still getting paid, until their is clarification of the situation, but it still seems to go against the norm of society.
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Norm of society is if you work in an employment at will State and are accused of sexual harassment, let alone criminal assault, your employer can fire you simply because it is not a good look for the company.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90334325...ual-harassment
Which is why a real union gets in the next CBA some protections until findings are made by an independent arbitrator or a court of law (via guilty plea or conviction)
I think everyone knows that's the norm of society, but it's shitty, and overall a pretty sorry state of affairs.
"You're innocent until proven guilty, but we're going to go ahead and ignore that everywhere outside of the actual criminal court trial itself. It's fine if we ruin your life and bankrupt you regardless."
Basically the point where we have gotten to - thanks to social media and viral news stories - is public shaming like they had in the 1600s and 1700s. I'm pretty sure it fell out of favor because everyone kind of realized it was a terrible idea, but since the effect of modern technology on our social fabric has largely been to make people terrible and stupid, I guess it comes as no surprise.
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Unless is your company that’s getting trashed in the media and your stock that’s dropping.
Same thing has been happening for as long as there has been communication. You can find several thousand year old ancient Mesopotamian customer service complaints as well as a lists of grievances against officials.
We just see and hear it faster now.
This does give us an excuse to sign Tupac back I suppose, if he drops to us in the waiver order
People are stupid. The media uproar and public concern lasts the same amount of time no matter what you do, in other words, "extremely temporary."
When you are dealing with the kind of brainless activists that make a public spectacle of things like that, in my opinion you should never apologize or try to make nice with them. If they get what they want, they don't behave like normal people and say, "Well, it looks like we were able to work that out, glad we were able to come to a sensible conclusion." They just see that they were rewarded for shitheaded behavior, so it encourages more shitheaded behavior, as if you were dealing with a dog or something. Better to just ignore it.
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So admin leave with pay for Chickillo while allegations investigated and his roster spot is backfilled.
Seems reasonable to me although I would not have exempt list provisions include attending meetings or access to facilities for anything other than treatment of an injury incurred on the job
Signed Jayrone Elliot and not Tuzar Skipper? How Dare they!!!!
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Fire Jason Gildong!
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So if you owned a multi-billion dollar company and one of your key executives was under charges of domestic violence and/or sexual misconduct, you’d just keep things the same while it drug out in the court systems for 18 months because you shouldn’t take action until they’re proven guilty? You wouldn’t have a multi-billion dollar business for long.
Sure I would - and I would have that multi-billion dollar business for exactly the same amount of time as if I'd fired the person. In fact, that happens all the time.
Please, name one multibillion-dollar business where someone has been accused of indecency and then the company went bankrupt because of moral outrage. It hasn't happened. All it is is a bunch of noise, and a few people congratulate each other for being woke, and then it goes away. Nothing actually happens.
Maybe there's an isolated case here or there, where the person who was accused of something was actually the key person running the company, and then things go to shit because that person is no longer there, but that's basically the opposite of what you are talking about.
In other words, moral outrage over people's personal transgressions almost never leads to anything substantive, almost never has caused anything on the level of a boycott, and has almost never had any lasting effect on the company's bottom line. It is all a bunch of hype that the activist types want to suck the rest of us into, and make that the new normal. I am sorry they managed to pull you into that, but it is never too late to wake up from that.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Weird. Can't think of a relevant example.
Hmmm. Multi billion dollar industry....maybe the NFL?
Public outrage leads to changes in things....player conduct policy...drug protocols.....tarnishing the shield.....
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Think whatever you want. You can't find the examples because there aren't any situations where an accused offender continues in his role. It's called public relations. Your argument is a straw man.
Was the NFL struggling when it went on the player conduct PR kick? Did people really care so much that the league was in danger?
Or did the fans kind of shrug and go "hmm, well I guess some players are jerks in real life, oh well."
Did the new policy improve anything at all? Did it make it look like the league is full of players who are better-behaved role models? Or did it make it look like the players were poorly-behaved hooligans by calling many times more attention to each incident?
Actually, I was asking if you could find an example of a company that struggled because someone was not fired. Similarly, you won't be able to find one. Not a single one.
But not because of the part in bold. I mean, lol. You actually believe that?
Plenty of cases where people are accused and cleared, maybe put on leave until then, maybe not. I mean literally hundreds.
Public relations ... well, that is what's caused you to believe that being auto-fired is what will happen every time, what should happen, what is the only thing that can and indeed MUST happen. Not public relations on the part of the companies, though. Public relations on the part of the activists. They got you good.
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Honestly that is the way he should handle it. just because someone is accused of something it doesn't mean they did it. Even if they were arrested for it doesn't mean they did it. That is why we have a court system rather than a court of public opinion.
Off the top of my head...Girls Gone Wild (bankrupt), Carolina Panthers (forced to sell). Both of those were because of ownership. How about Penn State University. They suffered pretty bad, arguably still suffering the effects of some employees actions. Not bankrupt but their football program, sports programs and enrollment suffered very much...they took quite a PR and financial hit.
Didn’t Colt go bankrupt a few times due to a combination of lost patents and pr hits after mass shootings?
That's exactly my point.
Girls Gone Wild went under because the owner did some really shady (like, illegal) stuff and basically got shut down. Not because the customers were morally outraged and boycotted them.
Panthers - and the L.A. Clippers for that matter - were doing great as a business before whatever scandals and continued to do the same during and afterward, but had owners PR'ed out to no net effect.
Penn State had their coach PR'ed out and suffered the negative effects anyway. (Note: most of the negative effects were league-mandated effects, not from public outrage.)
Three excellent examples of different outcomes from poor behavior by a high-profile executive. One where the legal consequences sunk the business. One where they forced the guy out but it had no bearing on the survival of the business. One where they forced the guy out but suffered the same consequences anyway (and the real perpetrator ended up in real prison).
None of those were cases in which public outrage tanked the business. Public outrage never tanks the business. For that matter, the NFL was raking in cash hand-over-fist before the player conduct Protect the Shield bullshit, and that hasn't changed things a bit, despite currently having a worse image than ever. They just freaked out over the Ray Rice video and now have jumped onto the fire first, ask questions later bandwagon, which I think is a bad thing to have in sports or anywhere else.
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This story has developed in the past few weeks
Kenneth Fisher Ruled Investing. Then He Made a Sexist Joke.
Mr. Fisher has lost control of his media narrative, as he gets skewered over sexist and lewd remarks he made this month at a financial services industry conference in San Francisco....
The damage has been quick and costly. In the past two weeks, public pensions and institutional investors like Fidelity have pulled nearly $2 billion from his privately held firm, Fisher Investments, which is based near Portland, Ore., and has 3,500 employees....
The backlash is an example of the repercussions executives face in a business world that no longer tolerates disparaging comments....
EPC, another influential pension consultant, issued a letter last Thursday recommending that its clients terminate holdings with Fisher Investments, saying Mr. Fisher’s behavior, his response to criticism and the subsequent prominent redemptions “lead us to question the sustainability of the firm.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/23/b...ts-sexism.html
With online bad news spreading quickly and the standard for what has been tolerated in the past no longer being excused times have changed. Which is why businesses need to move quickly to address what in the past were just PR problems with no impact on the bottom line.
Last edited by AtlantaDan; 10-24-2019 at 10:12 AM.
My understanding of what happened there is that they were a pretty poorly run business ... basically what they did was split the company in two, into a military/police company and a civilian firearms company, and loaded the civilian side up with all the debt. Then the mitary side lost its contracts because they designed some shitty weapons, and whaddya know, right at the exact same time, just.by miraculous coincidence, they merged the companies back together and they both went bankrupt at once.
Basically what I think they were trying to do was a sketchy move where they either sold off the handgun company to some poor suckers who were in love with the brand-name recognition, or let it go bankrupt - and kept the lucrative defense contracts for themselves. But when that didn't work out like they expected, they said, "Hey, here's a chance to make lemons into lemonade by making both companies go bankrupt at once, so we get out of paying anyone who we owe money."
The boycott you are thinkimg of was before that, when the CEO came out and said he was in favor of gun control, which naturally pissed off his customers. Actually a great example of woke PR virtue signaling causing business problems. Eventually they fired him, I think, and things went back to normal.
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The Penn State Scandal had a ridiculous amount of public outrage at about 4 different stages.
With all due respect, what you described was a case of businesses cutting ties with another business over fear of an imagined public backlash. Not an actual public backlash, because public backlashes that sink a business don't really exist.
ANYWAY, this is drifting away from the main point. I think we all acknowledge that this culture of firing people based on accusations does exist - there is no denying that.
I think it is a bad thing and should not exist; it is a short-sighted hysteria culture that is fundamentally wrong. On the big-picture moral level, outrage culture is a terrible development, because it does an end-around on the presumption of innocence -- basically replaces "innocent until proven guilty" with "yeah, but we can ruin your life anyway with our own extrajudicial process that has no pretense of fairness at all." I do not think that is what was intended with the 6th Amendment - like, at all.
Of course, people poo-pooh that as moral argument that doesn't apply to the business world, because it has no dollar value and therefore doesn't make a good business argument. Well, what I'm saying is, there's no business case for submitting to outrage culture either. None. It's worry over "the public backlash." Well, there's no public backlash. Some people get mad and make noise for a little while, mostly for their own benefit, and that's it. People can understand very easily that there is no dollar value gain from the moral argument of the presumption of innocence; for some reason, they cannot understand that there is also no dollar value on the moral argument of (mean-spirited) public righteousness. Zero. I cannot comprehend why people understand one but not the other. Probably because the latter provides some sort of self-confirmation. But it actually carries very negative and dangerous social consequences - you could say evil, in the wrong hands. And it is used by the wrong hands very frequently.
So yes, it exists, and people have accepted it as "oh well, that's just the way the world works now, wow that wacky modern internets and viral tweets and cancel culture." Well, you shouldn't accept it, it's terrible and frankly pretty frightening.
REALLY going back on topic, how does Chickillo being preemptively disciplined actually do anything to help the NFL or the Steelers? Does it create the appearance that one of their players did NOT do something questionable? Does it create the impression that there are few violent or bad-charactered players in the NFL? Does it send a message that the league won't tolerate such behavior? If so, why do the same kinds of people keep turning up on NFL rosters every year in similar numbers?
How many fans have been gained and how much money earned with the fire-first mentality? How many fans were lost and how many dollars wasted with the old way of handling things? I'll save you some time, the answer to all four questions is zero.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Yes, and what did the public outrage do? Anything different before and after Joe Paterno was fired?
Any lesser outrage against the university because he was fired? Nope.
Any lasting negative effects on the football program, other than the NCAA sanctions which were done for PR? Also nope.
Any lesser outrage against the university because of the NCAA sanctions? Also nope.
It was all a big show so people could virtue-signal and feel good about themselves. The business implications of firing Paterno or not, or the NCAA deciding to impose sanctions or not, were virtually zero.
"B-but! People were MAD!" But nothing. They were going to be mad either way. The only things that actually matter were that the actual criminal ended up in prison (which few people seem to talk about anymore), and that the saying "time heals all wounds" is not only accurate, but in fact the ONLY thing that makes much of a difference in cases of bad (criminal level) PR. That's it. You can do and say whatever you want in the meantime, but it's all a lot of running around for nothing.
See you Space Cowboy ...
“With all due respect “ is an entirely overused and meaningless statement.....no one really means it anymore.....see what I did there.....and this thread has gone way beyond Chick. Start another damn thread.
Several fitness brands basically went under or pulled product lines from the market when people got pissed at Lance Armstrong.
People were plenty pissed off at Enron.
Uber and Lyft are examples of public perception and reaction impacting bottom lines.
We can go further back and find multiple examples in the wild and wooly days of the 1800 and 1900's were once abusive or gross business practices came to light, companies went out of business because of public outrage. Or at least pretended to go out of business and then cropped back up under a new name!
Like anything in life it is all pretty complicated and one size fits all blanket statements don't really fit anything.
Sure it did it hurt the football program big time. It hurt enrollment. It hurt alumni relations. Did it close the school? No. The issue is still there. It’s still a HUGE blemish on the school and there’s still outrage about it. But what affects schools most? Money. What stopped coming in? Money. What have they paid out in settlements? Over $109 million. I would say the money that they lost out on has to fall under the category of business.
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