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    Senior Member Array title="Six Rings is a splendid one to behold">

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    What can be done about the officiating?

    What can be done about the officiating? Any ideas. I have one. Hire three video officials. Do not make them part of the regular crew, but do give them 100% power on red flag calls. Stick the video officials in a room with multiple screens and camera angles. Not only will this speed up the results, the video officials won't be burdened with overturning a call from their crew. Majority vote rule 2-1 or 3-0. Show vote total.

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    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    What can be done about the officiating? Any ideas. I have one. Hire three video officials. Do not make them part of the regular crew, but do give them 100% power on red flag calls. Stick the video officials in a room with multiple screens and camera angles. Not only will this speed up the results, the video officials won't be burdened with overturning a call from their crew. Majority vote rule 2-1 or 3-0. Show vote total.
    This seems to be the flavor of the week on what to do next

    Back in the offseason, there was a push by some members of the competition committee to institute a "sky judge" -- essentially an additional official added to each game's crew, but one who would sit up in the booth/box, watching the game and utilizing replay angles to buzz down and correct egregious errors.

    But this is the issue with that proposal

    For starters, make sure the sky judge can only step in should there be a clear and obvious/egregious mistake made.

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/n...ious-mistakes/

    But what is "egregious"? Jesse James and Al Riveron probably have differences of opinion on that.

    Calls are going to be missed - but once limited replay review was implemented the league started down the slope to reviewing everything

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    Thread DeRailer Array title="tube517 has a reputation beyond repute"> tube517's Avatar

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Fire Al Riveron-Kraft for one. He needs to go.



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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by tube517 View Post
    Fire Al Riveron-Kraft for one. He needs to go.
    AMEN!!!

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    The refs should be fined if the penalize a player during the game and the player does not get fined because they screwed up. Too many bogus game changing penalties are being called.



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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Do away with the legislation completely and call games as they go. Let the teams play. Regardless of how poor the calls go. Teams will complain, but they have to deal with it. Human error is just a part of life. If a catch is called a catch, then its a catch.

    The more the league tries to legislate the game, the worse the officiating will get.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Do away with the legislation completely and call games as they go. Let the teams play. Regardless of how poor the calls go. Teams will complain, but they have to deal with it. Human error is just a part of life. If a catch is called a catch, then its a catch.

    The more the league tries to legislate the game, the worse the officiating will get.
    agreed, the refereeing could get better if the refs knew they weren’t going to constantly be second guessed.

    May be a good idea to give each team one or two replay options (on calls only) per game. just to minimize controversial calls

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    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Arians on the screwup in the Titans-Bucs game

    "My biggest thing is, referees aren't held accountable. Coaches get fired. General managers get fired. Players get cut. Referees aren't accountable. And it's a shame. It's been that way for 40 years and now that we've got a new agreement, it'll be that way for 40 more years.”

    When I am in agreement with BA on anything it clearly has gotten really bad

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ld-accountable

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Arians on the screwup in the Titans-Bucs game

    "My biggest thing is, referees aren't held accountable. Coaches get fired. General managers get fired. Players get cut. Referees aren't accountable. And it's a shame. It's been that way for 40 years and now that we've got a new agreement, it'll be that way for 40 more years.”

    When I am in agreement with BA on anything it clearly has gotten really bad

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ld-accountable
    It’s true. They are in a win-win situation. They make a good call they get paid ridiculous money. They make a bad call...ehhh...they get paid ridiculous money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Hire fulltime professional people. I mean it's not like the NFL and owners are on a fixed income. This is like having a 60 million dollar Gulfstream 650ER aircraft and having the technicians fabricate tooling because the company is too cheap to buy them.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Nothing can be doe because it's screwed up from the top to the bottom. THe officials are doing what they are told to...throw more flags for the sake of player safety. so everything is getting called.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    1. Acknowledge that no system of officiating will ever be perfect. Reset expectations from the fans, to the broadcasters, to the pundits, to the players and coaches that the NFL will be working towards consistency and stability with the officiating not perfection. Acknowledge that what looks obvious and clear in HD super slow motion replay looks different at full speed from an off angle in real life. Tell officials to shoot for being the same down to down rather than trying to do the impossible.

    2. Hire 3 more crews of full time officials than you need. Have another independent "crew" that grades each week's officiating. If a crew falls below a certain benchmark on a consistent basis that crew gets relegated and a "relief" crew gets promoted.

    3. When crews are not working games and during the off-season they are watching film of games and situations to train on specific scenarios. They are testing out tweaks and modifications to how they work together as a crew. NFL should set up some sort of simulator facility that the officiating crews can come in and call a virtual game.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    1. Acknowledge that no system of officiating will ever be perfect. Reset expectations from the fans, to the broadcasters, to the pundits, to the players and coaches that the NFL will be working towards consistency and stability with the officiating not perfection. Acknowledge that what looks obvious and clear in HD super slow motion replay looks different at full speed from an off angle in real life. Tell officials to shoot for being the same down to down rather than trying to do the impossible.

    2. Hire 3 more crews of full time officials than you need. Have another independent "crew" that grades each week's officiating. If a crew falls below a certain benchmark on a consistent basis that crew gets relegated and a "relief" crew gets promoted.

    3. When crews are not working games and during the off-season they are watching film of games and situations to train on specific scenarios. They are testing out tweaks and modifications to how they work together as a crew. NFL should set up some sort of simulator facility that the officiating crews can come in and call a virtual game.
    You mean like the non-call of 2 fouls against the Rams in the playoffs last year, or the offsides that wasn't called against the LA Chargers last year that resulted in a TD even though everybody in the stadium saw what had happened. BTW same crew did both of these games.

    IF the NFL were really concerned they would have review these officials and fire them when they miss blatantly obvious calls.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    You mean like the non-call of 2 fouls against the Rams in the playoffs last year, or the offsides that wasn't called against the LA Chargers last year that resulted in a TD even though everybody in the stadium saw what had happened. BTW same crew did both of these games.

    IF the NFL were really concerned they would have review these officials and fire them when they miss blatantly obvious calls.
    Did you read past the part you highlighted in bold, or just immediately decided to fly into a rage?

    Point #2 is basically what you said.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Did you read past the part you highlighted in bold, or just immediately decided to fly into a rage?

    Point #2 is basically what you said.
    Rage???

    Wow ok I didn't know that was a rage, more of a comment and yes I did read the rest of the article, and on point 2 that's not basically what I said and I seriously doubt it would be something the NFL would implement.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Rage???

    Wow ok I didn't know that was a rage, more of a comment and yes I did read the rest of the article, and on point 2 that's not basically what I said and I seriously doubt it would be something the NFL would implement.
    Good point. I appear to be in a shitty mood today. Apologies.

    I think I would tend to agree that the NFL isn't going to do anything.

  17. #17

    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Not as much of an issue, but I don't see why they don't put microchips in each nose of the football. Given that the dimensions of a ball are a mathematical absolute (unless Brady's playing), it wouldn't be that hard to determine whether the nose of the ball broke the line for a first down or a TD. And, with all the wireless tech today and the downright cheap computing power, the biggest cost would probably be having to order all new footballs so the chip could sewn in.


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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Not as much of an issue, but I don't see why they don't put microchips in each nose of the football. Given that the dimensions of a ball are a mathematical absolute (unless Brady's playing), it wouldn't be that hard to determine whether the nose of the ball broke the line for a first down or a TD. And, with all the wireless tech today and the downright cheap computing power, the biggest cost would probably be having to order all new footballs so the chip could sewn in.
    How will Brady get them deflated without the league known ?

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    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    One thing I absolutely hate is when people romanticize the “human” element of officiating.

    No. There is nothing good about getting anything wrong. The day robots can replace refs and be truly objective and more accurate should be a day that’s celebrated. The human element we want to see is from the actual players on the field.

    The ONLY argument against doing whatever it takes to get the objectively best results every time is the speed involved.

    I think a sky crew is a good idea if they can do it without slowing the game down much.

    There should be chips in the balls to indicate spot placement. We should be using as much technology as we have at our disposal to get things objectively right.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    One thing I absolutely hate is when people romanticize the “human” element of officiating.

    No. There is nothing good about getting anything wrong. The day robots can replace refs and be truly objective and more accurate should be a day that’s celebrated. The human element we want to see is from the actual players on the field.

    The ONLY argument against doing whatever it takes to get the objectively best results every time is the speed involved.

    I think a sky crew is a good idea if they can do it without slowing the game down much.

    There should be chips in the balls to indicate spot placement. We should be using as much technology as we have at our disposal to get things objectively right.
    Robots and computers are even less reliable than humans, but please by all means, let's go down that road, and make the game even slower, and the officiating even worse and unreliable. It never failed to dawn on people that every time the NFL had tried to "fix" the officiating, it keeps getting worse? A trade-off is required. Either take away rule legislation and let the players play, or just legislate everything and make everything even more judgmental and flawed for "accuracy". There is no real solution to this that will work out for everyone.

    Bitching about the officials created the Calvin Johnson rule, which created Jesse James, which created an even worse call on Devin Bush's Non-INT against Baltimore. Where does it stop?

    You mean like the non-call of 2 fouls against the Rams in the playoffs last year, or the offsides that wasn't called against the LA Chargers last year that resulted in a TD even though everybody in the stadium saw what had happened. BTW same crew did both of these games.
    The Saints and Steelers lost their respective games because they stunk, not because of the officials. The Saints whining about the Non-PI created the PI challenges which are being abused left and right, and the officiating has NOT improved.

    Again I ask, where does it stop?

    The NFL is completely spineless and will do anything to please everyone, and everyone hates it.

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    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Robots and computers are even less reliable than humans, but please by all means, let's go down that road, and make the game even slower, and the officiating even worse and unreliable. It never failed to dawn on people that every time the NFL had tried to "fix" the officiating, it keeps getting worse? A trade-off is required. Either take away rule legislation and let the players play, or just legislate everything and make everything even more judgmental and flawed for "accuracy". There is no real solution to this that will work out for everyone.

    Bitching about the officials created the Calvin Johnson rule, which created Jesse James, which created an even worse call on Devin Bush's Non-INT against Baltimore. Where does it stop?



    The Saints and Steelers lost their respective games because they stunk, not because of the officials. The Saints whining about the Non-PI created the PI challenges which are being abused left and right, and the officiating has NOT improved.

    Again I ask, where does it stop?

    The NFL is completely spineless and will do anything to please everyone, and everyone hates it.
    Robots are less reliable TODAY. I’m saying we should celebrate when the human element can be taken out of the officiating without slowing the game down.

    Where does it end? That’s a ridiculous question. It’s like asking where the justice system ends. You keep getting closer to objectively correct. You try to prevent different people getting different treatment.

    And yes you try to do it without slowing the game down. But you absolutely don’t romanticize the “human” element of officiating as if getting things wrong is somehow good because to err is human.

    And saying “let the players play” is such a nothing cop out statement. Where does that end? Why not remove officiating and let the players fight it out. Whoever loses just deserves to lose.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    Robots are less reliable TODAY. I’m saying we should celebrate when the human element can be taken out of the officiating without slowing the game down.

    Where does it end? That’s a ridiculous question. It’s like asking where the justice system ends. You keep getting closer to objectively correct. You try to prevent different people getting different treatment.

    And yes you try to do it without slowing the game down. But you absolutely don’t romanticize the “human” element of officiating as if getting things wrong is somehow good because to err is human.

    And saying “let the players play” is such a nothing cop out statement. Where does that end? Why not remove officiating and let the players fight it out. Whoever loses just deserves to lose.
    LOL Robots that is funny.

    with all the electronics issues in a certain stadium wouldn't be an issue for these robots. I am sure they couldn't be hacked, controlled or manipulated in any way what so ever.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    LOL Robots that is funny.

    with all the electronics issues in a certain stadium wouldn't be an issue for these robots. I am sure they couldn't be hacked, controlled or manipulated in any way what so ever.
    Don’t give Belichick any ideas.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    LOL Robots that is funny.

    with all the electronics issues in a certain stadium wouldn't be an issue for these robots. I am sure they couldn't be hacked, controlled or manipulated in any way what so ever.
    I’m not talking Terminators. No AI necessary. A Roombah is a robot that could probably spot the ball accurately if you put the right chip in it.

    All I’m saying is, don’t be afraid of advances in technology just because we love the human element of random inaccuracy and a tendency to listen to Tom Brady make his case. You’d ultimately have human oversight over everything obviously.

    Cameras are a type of technology. Fortunately we embrace them as improvements to accuracy.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    LOL Robots that is funny.

    with all the electronics issues in a certain stadium wouldn't be an issue for these robots. I am sure they couldn't be hacked, controlled or manipulated in any way what so ever.
    I think all players should carry guns like in the movie The Last Boy Scout. Refs will have two think twice before throwing that flag.

  26. #26

    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel View Post
    One thing I absolutely hate is when people romanticize the “human” element of officiating.

    No. There is nothing good about getting anything wrong. The day robots can replace refs and be truly objective and more accurate should be a day that’s celebrated. The human element we want to see is from the actual players on the field.

    The ONLY argument against doing whatever it takes to get the objectively best results every time is the speed involved.

    I think a sky crew is a good idea if they can do it without slowing the game down much.

    There should be chips in the balls to indicate spot placement. We should be using as much technology as we have at our disposal to get things objectively right.
    I'd disagree, mainly because it goes back to players learning how to craft their game. A DB who knows his angles and can put himself in the right spot so his body blocks the view of the ref can then do a quick grab to slow a guy just enough. Today, it's a penalty due to instant replay. No thank you. I'd rather see guys exhibit skills and little tricks he learned through the years. Leave the instant replays to binary questions. Did he cross the goal line? Did he get both feet in bounds? Who threw the first punch? (and yes, I think there should be replay on penalties concerning after-the-play penalties like fighting). Leave the judgement calls to real-time officiating and teach your players how to take advantage of it. That way, everyone knows what's to be expected. It becomes gamesmanship again, rather than a random guess each week as to what calls you will or will not get.


  27. #27
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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    I think the games were more tolerable to watch this week officiating wise.

  28. #28
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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    The Saints and Steelers lost their respective games because they stunk, not because of the officials.
    While I somewhat agree with you, there is no excuse for missing blatantly obvious calls. The fact that it was done by the same crew in both games shows that the NFL and the officiating crew could care less. If they had reviewed the officiating from the Steelers game and taken appropriate actions then the Saints call never would have happened and we wouldn't have this stupid PI rule. In both games these calls affected the outcome of the game even if both teams could have played better. I can live with missing calls that are not so obvious but the NFL and the officials need to be held accountable for the obvious misses.

  29. #29
    Well there you have it... Array title="NCSteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> NCSteeler's Avatar

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    Professional full-time refs. Practice practice practice.

    Less challenges and more overhead oversight. If the girls ref misses a call no reason a couple of guys in the booth can't fix it quickly

    The refs from week to week seem more like they are responding based on what NY might over turn them what's really going on the field

    Why not more refs on the Field? Why does the NFL not even mandate what cameras or angle a game gets? These are easy improvement.

    But I'm guess the league will do nothing until they have to knee jerk a big ESPN story and then back track till the rule they put in place is removed in effect. Like the PI review.

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    Re: What can be done about the officiating?

    replace officials with cameras and AI, might as well start moving in that direction because it'll happen. The refs blown enough games to the point I don't care if they lose their jobs, they should have done it right in the first place

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