I guess? But not in the all the coaches suck and the players are arrogant divas way I feel like people mean it.Originally Posted by Hawkman
I guess? But not in the all the coaches suck and the players are arrogant divas way I feel like people mean it.
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That is about where I think it will end this season. The WR group just seems invisible imo, Conner plays with 100% grit and won't last with a heavy carry load, I'm just not sold on snell. I'm concerned about Watt also, he's non-stop and I wonder how long he can push the envelope. Then we have Chickillo.I hope I'm wrong.
Credit to the schedule-makers... the AFC North will likely be decided on Week 17: Steelers @ Ravens.
They have gotten younger now for 5 straight years and are now one of the youngest teams, they are on their 4th string QB (no one else is on their 3rd), they have amazing young talent on Defense that is improving and gelling better every week with a VERY good chance with a minimum of 4 ALL-pros for many years to come, and young upcoming stars at WR and RB. The Defense is improving week to week and the offensive line has improved week to week. That is a lot to be thankful for. If this continues, the wins will follow, guaranteed. If they don't, we will not be happy for much longer!
"I think they can count on me. And I want them to be able to count on me."
~ Big Ben Roethlisberger, 2005
With the loss of talent, means a loss of expectations, and thus a loss of disappointment when the Steelers lose. I would rather have a team with less talent play with heart and overachieve than have a team with a ton of talent but no heart and underachieve.
The 2014-2018 Steelers are the epitome of underachievement. They had offensive talent never before seen in Pittsburgh, but they never truly played up to their potential. There were flashes of brilliance, but it never materialized into greatness.
The 2019 Steelers have none of the high-end talent. But are more fun to watch for me because they are playing with a lot more heart and as a cohesive unit Instead of a group of talented individuals. There is no Ben-to-AB connection. No chasing statistics. No ego-driven offense (mostly). Just a team scrapping. I think this is the kind of team Tomlin wanted, but there were too many veteran egos to manage. After the Offense fumbled away yet another winnable game against the Ravens, the Steelers Defense wanted to play more physical with the offense in practice, the Offense complained and it exposed the glaring issues with this team that has plagued them for all these years: they were still soft and complacent and high on their own shit instead of focusing on what was important: winning. It worked. The offense stopped being soft and played good against the Chargers behind a third string QB. The team needs this kind of effort if they’re going to save this season.
Wether they are good or not, they are a likeable, rootable young team trying to find their way out. A young quarterback with minimal offensive talent backed by a Defense that is finally coming into its own. Despite this, Two close wins slipped out of their grasp against some good teams. The Steelers were this close to beating the 49ers, who are 5-0.
Plus, people love underdogs.
This team is better than a lot of people think, regardless of the lack of star power. It looks like a new culture of team-first is building and I'm loving it. Juju and Conner aren't complaining about getting more touches, they want to win. I still think 10-6 is really possible.
Wait. Wait. So removing AB and Ben means that the team has no expectations? Ok. Maybe on offense. But why is there suddenly no expectations on the defense? It is literally the same players plus significant upgrades in MFF, Bush, Nelson, and Barron.
Basically the only place that expectations should have ratcheted down is QB and WR. But, no one is talking about preparation and terrible coaches, etc day in and day out. I find it hard to believe that one player (AB) had that much impact on the 100+ people that make up a football team.
Is it possible that 2016-18 fan reactions were exaggerated and 2019 is a similar over-reaction in the other direction?
Defense has underachieved for a while now. It is just starting to look like they are coming around and are performing at a very high level. So they are not "no expectations", but "meets expectations". Heck, the number of takeaways alone may put them into "exceeds expectations". Even special teams is starting to click. Somehow.
Culture matters, and one crappy guy at work can in fact make things miserable for an unbelievable number of people. We just lost what may be the worst Diva of all time, so who knows what impact that may have had. Queue Jesse James' quote upon leaving. https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/20...teelers-drama/
Right now they are a fun team to watch. We're seeing what our coaches can do when not hamstrung by star talent. Forced to generate a game plan for a backup QB. I really think Ben, Bell and Brown had a lot to do with lack of preparation for losing teams. When we would run a play cause it was a play we liked even if it didn't fit the situation, when we run high reward, high risk, low success plays just because
The defense I really think MFF was the fix. The communication problem the defense has had since Shazier went down, seem completely gone.
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I simply can't wrap my head around the idea that the coaches are idiots with great players and geniuses with below average players. I realize that many are not trying to paint that extreme of a contrast, but it just makes zero sense to me.
If Fichtner had a smart/clever/effective/whatever scheme for a 4th string QB against the Chargers, then I find it hard to believe his scheme was moronic/useless/inappropriate against, say, the 2018 Saints.
I honestly believe that with the spectre of a SB appearance removed, fans are free to be less results biased. In other words for 3+ years now everytime something went wrong, the fans threw up their hands and said "stupid coaches are losing us a championship". No thought was given to process, only outcome. Now, since everyone figures the outcome is kinda crappy anyways, they are looking at the process.
For instance, a few posts up the exciting young developing defense is mentioned. So unless, Bush and MFF are the only under 28 players on the defense that fit that description, the defense has been young and developing for at least 3 seasons. Tuitt, Hargrave, Watt, Edmunds, and Shazier. They have been trying to build exactly what we are looking at in 2019 for 4 seasons or so.
Anyways, this is coming off as overly negative and scolding, which is not my intention. I just think that it is possible that fans (or fanatics that we all are) get a bit too wrapped up in outcomes when a team is "good" and lose sight of all the other stuff that is going on.
That's pretty true. Honestly when I viewed this team as a super bowl contender with their starting QB running out of time, I viewed any loss really as underachieving, much more so when it came against a crappy team that they had no business losing to. A big part of the frustration, was the feeling that 'time was running out' for a championship. We had a 2-time super bowl winner at QB, two of the Killer B's that would both demand big paydays, so that super bowl window in my mind, existed as long as those 3 were together. I still had hope for last year since Conner was balling in place of Bell.
Since Ben went down, I took more of an 'oh well' attitude and was more looking for improvements and development in players rather than just wins. Of course, you want to see the wins, but now I'm no longer pissed off if the Steelers lose. Heck, before I was unable to call anything a 'good game' if the Steelers played well but lost it. But I could honestly say after the ravens game that it was a good game, but unfortunately we didn't win. We get em next time
Expectations are down, but in a way, makes winning more exciting and losing less disappointing, when you don't go into games 'expecting' to win. Oddly enough, this season I've had more fun watching the Steelers than I've had in years (except for the first game which totally was horrible lol). I'm especially loving the new culture that they're building, the players all seem to be buying into the 'team first' attitude which makes them a lot more fun to cheer for.
This is such a weird season. Expectations now are obviously lower than ever. Yes, our crappy record is part of it, but the real culprit is the loss of Ben. If we still had Ben I think you’d see the black and gold colored glasses come out, thinking we can still win the Super Bowl with Big Ben coming to the rescue.
It sucks too because I finally feel like we have a more talented defense than we’ve had in years. I’m now expecting splash plays and getting them.
But what makes it even weirder is that we can’t do what other fan bases with crappy seasons do, which is root for a bad record and a high draft pick.
I think the trade for Fitzpatrick had a doubly positive effect, it shored up a position of need and forced us to stay positive and root for the best record possible. Maybe Tomlin thought of that and is a genius to eliminate any incentives for losing... okay, I’m obviously kidding with that one... mostly
Maybe Conner needs to return to that dopey haircut?
One player doesn't have much of an impact. But two do make much of an impact, and an even bigger impact when one of those is the franchise quarterback.
AB speaks for itself. He is an immense diva, but there is also the impact of Ben. While he isn't as cancerous as AB, Ben is quite a diva himself. He lacked true leadership and wanted 100% control of the Offense like a Peyton Manning, despite lacking the ability to run an offense of that kind. Its no slight on the guy, but that was never his style. Ben was never one to put in the extra work to become a more efficient and disciplined quarterback to put in the class of the NFL elite. Ben's style was as a daring gunslinger with immense talent, and he rode that talent to three Super Bowl appearances and two rings.
Ben thought himself as more than what he was, when the reality points to otherwise. He was never one to play complimentary football or help the team win. He wanted to be the heroic gunslinger. Racking up 300-400 passing yards in a winning effort. The Defense be damned. And for the most part, it worked, but there are many times, where it didn't work and failed miserably. Live by the sword and die by the sword. Combine Ben's renegade style with a talented diva WR like AB, it had the makings of a toxic brew that while fun to watch, made poison for the Steelers. Ben forced the ball to AB, at the detriment of the offense, as it would result in turnovers, or just nothing there at all. The Steelers, instead of playing winning football, were focused on how beefy they can jack up that stat sheet or get on the highlight reels. Look no further than all of the unnecessary deep shots on 3rd and short, when just a few yards would've been fine. But that's Ben's style of game. Boom or bust (Mostly Bust).
There were many times during the Haley years where the Steelers would brag in the offseason that their goal was 30 points a game. That should've been a red flag right there that the teams' priorities were in the wrong place, and they were not going to win. Scoring 30 points should not be the goal of a winning organization. Winning should be the goal. But we were too blinded by our black and gold sunglasses to see it. Thinking back, Is it really any shock that the Killer B Steelers were horribly undisciplined and didn't win anything? This is where the "Poor Coaching" thing comes in. Tomlin should've kiboshed that kind of talk, but likely by then it was already too late. The cancer was beginning to set in. Those teams were highly talented, but their culture was wholly selfish and self-destructive.
These 2019 Steelers do not have the talent, and may not even have the same level of success right now (or likely ever), but they are more cohesive as a team now. The Offense and Defense are not butting heads. The quarterback isn't a diva. They are complimenting each other. The Offense is focused on maintaining drives and the Defense gets them the ball back with turnovers. Instead of "Ben-AB will just solve everything". They won two of their last three after an 0-3 start and are starting to find out who they are, and Its only a matter of time before they start to gel for real. Let's hope its soon. Starting with the Dolphins.
I have always rooted for wins every week even though when I knew the team was out of it. Rooting for losses for a high draft pick is a loser mentality and better left to Cleveland fans.This is such a weird season. Expectations now are obviously lower than ever. Yes, our crappy record is part of it, but the real culprit is the loss of Ben. If we still had Ben I think you’d see the black and gold colored glasses come out, thinking we can still win the Super Bowl with Big Ben coming to the rescue.
It sucks too because I finally feel like we have a more talented defense than we’ve had in years. I’m now expecting splash plays and getting them.
But what makes it even weirder is that we can’t do what other fan bases with crappy seasons do, which is root for a bad record and a high draft pick.
I think the trade for Fitzpatrick had a doubly positive effect, it shored up a position of need and forced us to stay positive and root for the best record possible. Maybe Tomlin thought of that and is a genius to eliminate any incentives for losing... okay, I’m obviously kidding with that one... mostly
Many good post summed it up in this topic. With all the injuries and being down this team is showing heart and it is fun to watch with all the young guys stepping up. D looking the best we seen in years is a big part plus as well.
Idk. A top 5 pick in round two ain't bad eitherThis is such a weird season. Expectations now are obviously lower than ever. Yes, our crappy record is part of it, but the real culprit is the loss of Ben. If we still had Ben I think you’d see the black and gold colored glasses come out, thinking we can still win the Super Bowl with Big Ben coming to the rescue.
It sucks too because I finally feel like we have a more talented defense than we’ve had in years. I’m now expecting splash plays and getting them.
But what makes it even weirder is that we can’t do what other fan bases with crappy seasons do, which is root for a bad record and a high draft pick.
I think the trade for Fitzpatrick had a doubly positive effect, it shored up a position of need and forced us to stay positive and root for the best record possible. Maybe Tomlin thought of that and is a genius to eliminate any incentives for losing... okay, I’m obviously kidding with that one... mostly
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This team has had a habit of playing down to the competition for a number of years now. Let’s see if the pattern holds next Monday night. If it does, Tomlin and the coaching staff is right back in the limelight
Since we traded a first rounder to Miami, you can bet they'll be gunning to beat us. That'll make the pick we traded that much better for them.
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But that would mean they are chancing their 1 overall pick of the draft.
Sometimes I think New England set's OUR football tone. Being Steeler fan's we are always expecting a winning season,, every year a SB season, but ultimately fail. Either due to injuries, poor offense and/or defense, poor coaching, whatever. Then we settle for just a .500 season and maybe a Div.title. And at the same time there is the 'cheats' and Brady always sneaking out lucky calls and lucky wins. Whether there are injuries on that team or not, Belicheat puts together the unbelievable. Which puts some of us in the mindset that even if we did get to the play-offs, we'd be lucky to get thru Foxboro. So, therefore we figure....as long as we don't embarrass ourselves and get out of the games with no more injuries it's a game well played. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Steeler fan through and through, but as a fan for over 50yrs, I accepted the fact that the SteelCurtain is gone ( Lambert was my HERO), the OLD style of play is gone, and I just have to accept the softness of the sport now. I know someday we'll jell again and become a threat to the other teams and things will fall our way during some games.....especially when playing New England and finally get that damn monkey off our shoulders. Keep the Black/Gold faith ! ( who would have thought that some player's are spending more time at practice designing a 'dance' routine than actually practicing plays )
Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say. Their own first round pick is way more important to them, because that will get them their franchise QB.
Yeah but it will be really annoying to see that we traded away a top five pick, which makes that trade less good.
I know it’s all psychological at this point, but I can’t root for a high second round pick at the expense of wins (and at the expense of the best possible trade). Maybe you can say Minkah is a better bet than than the fifth pick in the draft... but I feel a lot better about the trade if it’s for the 20th pick in the draft.
I realize that’s weird sunk cost thinking, but it makes it easier for me to root for the best season possible.
I know that the psychological rooting game gets even more complicated for those that want to see coaches fired. That’s too many levels deep for me to think about.
rather it be a bottom 5 pick
I would never route for that. But if it ends up that way it does
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It doesn’t though because nothing they would draft in the Top-5 is going to be as good as Fitzpatrick. Who would they draft in the Top-5 that’s going to be that good?
I think the recent Ramsey trade shows how good we made out trading for Minkah.
Chase Young would be better than Minkah. But, he won’t get past pick #2.
The QBs aren’t “that much” better than Rudolph.
Rudolph + Minkah > QB’20 + Davis
Delpit miiiiight be better than Minkah, but “a bird in the hand...”
SUMMATION:
We agree.
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Chase Young would be better than Minkah. But, he won’t get past pick #2.
The QBs aren’t “that much” better than Rudolph.
Rudolph + Minkah > QB’20 + Davis
Delpit miiiiight be better than Minkah, but “a bird in the hand...”
SUMMATION:
Yep. Chase Young is going veeeery early.
Yetur Gross-Matos from Penn State would be interesting if he comes out early. 6 5" 265
I don't know if he can play in space, but A J Epenesa from Iowa is a beast on the edge. Seemingly unblockable at times. I'm assuming he comes out early as well. He's bigger than Gross-Matos, so he may be projected as a 4-3 DE, but he is a legit pass rusher.
Two guys to keep an eye on to play EDGE if they declare.
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Anyone check out the TE class?
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