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Thread: Is Phillip Rivers a Hall of Famer?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Is Phillip Rivers a Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    The number 1 stat for QBs in the HOF is Super Bowl appearances. Without those chances go down severely (not impossible), and you better have stood out at some point in your career. I do not consider him to have ever been clutch. He may have the stats but nothing about him makes me think he is anything special. Some QBs have made it on stats but that was back when passing was not as prolific as it has been during River's era.
    I'd say close to equal weight for QBs, but I'd still put it 60/40 stats first.

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    Senior Member Array title="Butch has a reputation beyond repute"> Butch's Avatar

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    Re: Is Phillip Rivers a Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    That’s not really true though. There’s plenty of QBs in the Hall of Fame with no Super Bowl appearances and no Chamionship Game appearances. Of course it helps but it’s not the be all end all.

    Just go on the Hall of Fame website and they are all there.
    Never said it was the end all be all but if you don't have them you need to stand out. I am looking solely at the modern era QBs.

    1. Aikman SB
    2. Blanda (most of his career before SBs but did make 3 or so Title games)
    3. Bradshaw SB
    4. Len Dawson SB
    5. Elway SB
    6. Favre SB
    7. Fouts (Gutsy player who had stats when passing was not what it is today)
    8. Graham (10 division or league crowns in 10 years)
    9. Griese SB
    10. Jergensen
    11. Kelly SB
    12. Lane (3 NFL titles)
    13. Marino SB
    14. Montana SB
    15. Moon
    16. Namath SB
    17. Stabler SB
    18. Starr SB
    19. staubach SB
    20. Tarkenton SB
    21. Tittle
    22. Unitas SB
    23. Van Brocklin
    24. Warner SB
    25. Waterfield
    26. Young SB

    These are considered Modern era QBs and of these 26 only 6 have no championships or SBs appearances. I think this proves getting to the big game is very important for a QB. Just getting there (more times than not) shows you can be clutch.

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    Senior Member Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute"> pczach's Avatar

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    Re: Is Phillip Rivers a Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I'd say close to equal weight for QBs, but I'd still put it 60/40 stats first.


    The problem with going with stats first for me is that the stats don't always tell an accurate tale. If a quarterback wins a ton of games and has a high winning percentage, that means his team is playing with the lead a lot. A lead that the quarterback is hugely responsible for, and they put up those stats with the game's outcome still very much at stake.

    Many other quarterbacks put up tons of stats, but they played on teams that didn't win a large majority of their games, so they many times contributed greatly to those deficits, then pile up stats when the other team has the game in hand and loosens the defense up in an attempt to take away the big play. Those are false stats to me. Playing from behind creates stats and artificially inflates the numbers of quarterbacks that aren't consistent winners.

    The other thing is the offensive systems these guys play in. Some quarterbacks play in offensive systems that revolve around the passing game. They play a wide-open style that by its very nature produces stats. Other quarterbacks play for teams who have a mission statement of playing defense, running the ball more, play complimentary football, and big stats don't always occur in those situations.

    There is no perfect formula to decide who is better than who, but to me, great quarterbacks win a shitload of games. It has always been that way, and it is proven over time that great quarterbacks decide more games in their team's favor. Also, quarterbacks who make huge plays in big moments of games, big games, and lead last second comebacks in big games tend to rise to the top for me. Their actions in the important moments tells you more than raw stats ever could.

  4. #34
    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

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    Re: Is Phillip Rivers a Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Never said it was the end all be all but if you don't have them you need to stand out. I am looking solely at the modern era QBs.

    1. Aikman SB
    2. Blanda (most of his career before SBs but did make 3 or so Title games)
    3. Bradshaw SB
    4. Len Dawson SB
    5. Elway SB
    6. Favre SB
    7. Fouts (Gutsy player who had stats when passing was not what it is today)
    8. Graham (10 division or league crowns in 10 years)
    9. Griese SB
    10. Jergensen
    11. Kelly SB
    12. Lane (3 NFL titles)
    13. Marino SB
    14. Montana SB
    15. Moon
    16. Namath SB
    17. Stabler SB
    18. Starr SB
    19. staubach SB
    20. Tarkenton SB
    21. Tittle
    22. Unitas SB
    23. Van Brocklin
    24. Warner SB
    25. Waterfield
    26. Young SB

    These are considered Modern era QBs and of these 26 only 6 have no championships or SBs appearances. I think this proves getting to the big game is very important for a QB. Just getting there (more times than not) shows you can be clutch.
    Of course it helps and a lot of times these are QBs on good teams...itís not just them. When you go to the Hall of Fame site, there is no mention of Super Bowls and Championships on the initial screens. Itís all about stats and Pro Bowls and that stuff. Itís definitely not the number one credential.

    Thereís also plenty of QBs who have been to or won a Super Bowl that arenít in the Hall of Fame.

    Regardless of era, his numbers and his passer rating being better than Montana and Favre is going to speak volumes when it comes to the voters. He wonít get in first ballot and it may take a bit of time, but the voters will look at his numbers and put him in. The only thing he really lacks is post season performances. If he can get a couple more playoff wins, he will be a lock.

    Is it right? Probably not, but the numbers donít lie in the eyes of the media voters...


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    Re: Is Phillip Rivers a Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Of course it helps and a lot of times these are QBs on good teams...it’s not just them. When you go to the Hall of Fame site, there is no mention of Super Bowls and Championships on the initial screens. It’s all about stats and Pro Bowls and that stuff. It’s definitely not the number one credential.

    There’s also plenty of QBs who have been to or won a Super Bowl that aren’t in the Hall of Fame.

    Regardless of era, his numbers and his passer rating being better than Montana and Favre is going to speak volumes when it comes to the voters. He won’t get in first ballot and it may take a bit of time, but the voters will look at his numbers and put him in. The only thing he really lacks is post season performances. If he can get a couple more playoff wins, he will be a lock.

    Is it right? Probably not, but the numbers don’t lie in the eyes of the media voters...
    LOL no you are right there is no mention of having to make a SB or Championship on their site. There is no mention of that but again look at the list and 20 out of 26 have been there at least once. Please don't confuse what I am saying with simply going to the SB or that those who don't go will or will not make it into the HOF. Plenty of examples of those who have gone that don't belong and a few examples of those who have not who have gone into the HOF. I am simply pointing out that there is a bias towards the QBs who have at least gone once and I think the list shows that.

    Regardless of the era??? So are you trying to say that Rivers doesn't have an advantage of playing in an era when the rules favor passing and protecting the QB? Montana and Favre had to play through the hits unlike Brady and Rivers and you can tell because the QBs of today are having much longer careers. Having a much longer career and the protection that is in place makes it a Helluva lot easier to compile stats. Let them take more hits and see if their stats and careers don't end a whole lot different.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array title="Butch has a reputation beyond repute"> Butch's Avatar

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    Re: Is Phillip Rivers a Hall of Famer?

    [QUOTE=86WARD;710977]Of course it helps and a lot of times these are QBs on good teams...it’s not just them. /QUOTE]

    Forgot to mention this in my earlier post. You are absolutely right it's not just them most of these guys played on some pretty good teams.

    Could Kenny Anderson have done what Joe Montana did if Walsh had stayed in Cincinati? How good would the 70's Steelers be with Terry Hanratty or in the 2000's with Tommy Gun? How many more SBs would we have had we drafted Marino? A great QB elevates the teams they play on to greatness but yes it is a team sport. How many times have you seen a great team that was missing a QB? Imagine if the Ravens had drafted Ben instead of us? Ok I just thew up on that thought. The Jags with Bortles is another one that comes to mind recently.
    Last edited by Butch; 10-16-2019 at 02:05 AM.

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    Re: Is Phillip Rivers a Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Regardless of the era??? So are you trying to say that Rivers doesn't have an advantage of playing in an era when the rules favor passing and protecting the QB? Montana and Favre had to play through the hits unlike Brady and Rivers and you can tell because the QBs of today are having much longer careers. Having a much longer career and the protection that is in place makes it a Helluva lot easier to compile stats. Let them take more hits and see if their stats and careers don't end a whole lot different.
    Thatís not how the media looks at it though. Of course QBs today have an advantage. They have many advantages with the way the game is currently played and the changes in the rules. All players on offense from top to bottom have an advantage. However, when the media votes, they donít look at that stuff. They look at the numbers compared to those previously inducted and thatís what they base their vote off of. Very few of them are smart enough to analyze the game. I mean ďIím not voting Donnie Sheíll in because thereís already enough Steelers in the Hall of FameĒ is an excuse that comes out of the voters mouths? We arenít dealing with the smartest of voters here. I think Rivers gets in based solely on his numbers.


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    Re: Is Phillip Rivers a Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Thatís not how the media looks at it though. Of course QBs today have an advantage. They have many advantages with the way the game is currently played and the changes in the rules. All players on offense from top to bottom have an advantage. However, when the media votes, they donít look at that stuff. They look at the numbers compared to those previously inducted and thatís what they base their vote off of. Very few of them are smart enough to analyze the game. I mean ďIím not voting Donnie Sheíll in because thereís already enough Steelers in the Hall of FameĒ is an excuse that comes out of the voters mouths? We arenít dealing with the smartest of voters here. I think Rivers gets in based solely on his numbers.
    Yes they have their bias's and Peter King seems to have some strange obsession with keeping both Donnie Shell and LC Greenwood out despite that rule not applying to teams such as the Bears and Packers back in the day. Would putting in either or both of them really change the way people look at the HOF? No Do both deserve to be there...yes. It's simply his bias and it's a shame that he has such influence. Unless things change or Rivers wins a SB or 2 I don't see him getting in. Correct me if I am wrong but he's only been to one Championship game.

    I get where you are coming from can he make it...yes but do I believe he will at this point in his career...no. Maybe the better question for this should be should he be in the HOF.

  9. #39
    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

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    Re: Is Phillip Rivers a Hall of Famer?

    Should he be in the Hall is a different question and one weíd probably agree on. Iím in the camp that Terrell Davis has no business being in the Hall of Fame and I feel that Rivers falls more into that category for me than a lock for the Hall of Fame.


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