https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...th-butler-news
Interesting manipulation of stats to kinda sorta maybe show that if the Steelers have a healthy FS that isn't Kam Kelly AND can not play ALL the snaps -- they are a surprisingly excellent defense.
It reminds us that, especially now that we have Fitzpatrick, all of our starters on defense are at least good. There are no obviously bad players to exploit.
I’m no defensive wizard, but it seems to me that when all your players are good, that’s a pretty good indicator that your defense will be good.
Or could you argue that our defensive coordinator is SO bad, he can take a bunch of really good players and still put out a bad product?
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When the defense is good, we always have a solid tandem at safety. Let's hope MFF helps Edmunds become a better safety.
Polamalu/Clark
Polamalu/Hope
Lake/Perry
Shell/Wagner
Edwards/Wagner
That Polamalu/Hope tandem!Originally Posted by tube517
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Is there anybody left who still thinks that was a bad trade??
Considering that safeties guard the middle of the field and deep stuff, and the defense's weaknesses was defending the middle of the field and big plays....
Not to mention Minkah is probably the best tackler on the team it seems, i don't see him miss many
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The Lebeau Defenses of the 2000’s were awfully ordinary without Troy Polamalu (And Aaron Smith), even with The solid linebacking core they had. The Steelers have had overall weak Safety play since Clark/Polamalu.
Maybe, just perhaps. Minkah Fitzpatrick is the missing piece that turn the Butler Defense from perpetual mediocrity to actually being good. That’s a big Maybe, though.
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In modern NFL football, safety play has turned into the key position in the war against pass-heavy offenses. It's because quarterbacks make decisions on where to go with the ball based on the position of the safeties in most situations. Reading the safeties is paramount to running a successful passing offense.
When you hear about quarterbacks moving the safety with their eyes, it is because certain throws can't be made based on the position of the safeties. Quarterbacks are trained to look off the safeties to create space to make throws down the field. The better quarterbacks do this on a regular basis, and is part of the reason they are better than all the other quarterbacks. They know where to go with the ball and how to make it happen...even when the defense is in position to stop the pass patterns on the play that has been called.
It is hard to overstate how impactful S play is in today's NFL.
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I don't think anyone thought it was a bad trade. Several people, however, including me, wasn't sure it was the best use of a first round draft pick when the QB question was so suddenly thrown in up in the air. At that point we had lost two games, were going to start an unproven rookie the next game, and had as good a chance of drafting in the top 5 as we did anywhere else.
And, I'm still unhappy with the fact we gave up a first round pick from this coming year. Even if we gave up next years pick, or even this year's second and next years second, I'd be happy. Heck, I'd give up this year's third and next year's first. But giving up this year's first without any idea of Mason could play at this level just didn't see right. After all, Mason never started a game, and they still haven't taken the training wheels off, so we still don't know at this point. No knock on him, that's typical progression for a QB.
Too soon to say.
Hater = Realist
I get that. It's a sound position. But I don't think the team ever thought that way. Even if Rudolph plays horrible for the rest of 2019, the Steelers have no intention of going QB in 2020.
It's all about a 2-3 year SB window starting in 2020. Led by Ben at QB. Every contract on the roster is structured that way.
FS was the largest 2020-21 roster hole. There are others. But I believe they were going safety in 2020 round one no matter what. So they just got that pick almost a season early.
2021 or 2022 is the big move for a QB. And a LT. And a DE. And a C. And a CB.
As I’ve stated in various other threads:
1. Is Delpit better than Fitzpatrick? Maybe... maybe not.But, at worst, Fitzpatrick is the best slot CB in the NFL.
2. I don’t think that Herbert (et al) are “that much” better than Rudolph.
Fitzpatrick + Rudolph > Davis > 2020 QB draftee
3. We are immediately seeing the results, because Fitzpatrick is coaching on the field. We haven’t had a guy back there (getting people in the correct position) since Clark retired.
I think it was a good move, as Mojouw stated, they were going safety in 2020 anyhow so why not get one that's proven. I mean it's not like Minkah is 33 years old he still has a lot of football in him barring injury.
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...ith-butler-nfl
Another really interesting breakdown on the positive impact of MFF.
He might have been the missing piece that allows the back-end to play up to its potential.
Considering the Steelers haven't been without a first-round draft pick in over 50 years, sacrificing one must mean that Colbert & Co. are REAALLY high on MFF. The last time I recall a move even half as aggressive was in 2003 when they traded up in the first to get some safety out of USC whom I didn't really know much about but saw that he was 'climbing draft boards post-combine'.
Recall, Troy made a few flashes as a rookie, but didn't really show any greatness until about his 3rd year. The Steelers think they landed something really special with Fitzpatrick - who's still really young and still figuring out how to be a player at the NFL-level.
Fitzpatrick could be the next E-D-Reed boyee
Coach Minkah
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I keep reading and hearing about how the value of the Minkah trade will depend on how high the Steelers pick is. I get the value for the Dolphins but to my thinking the Steelers have their value in a great player at a position of great need. Even a top5 pick is a win-win as I see it. The only value changing is what pick the Dolphins get in return.
Jury is still out on this one. When we finish with the first overall pick and the Dolphins draft the next Dan Marino I'll let you know!
Even if they do, there’s nothing that says that next Dan Marino would perform at that level in Pittsburgh...Jury is still out on this one. When we finish with the first overall pick and the Dolphins draft the next Dan Marino I'll let you know!
Pardon my redundancy (I’ve this posted in many of threads)...
I don’t see the QBs in the 2020 draft class being that much better than Rudolph.
Rudolph + Fitzpatrick > Tua (et al) + Davis
But, we could get the best safety in that draft class!!!
Grant Delpit (S, LSU) might be better than Minkah, but maybe not. Who knows??? What we do know is that (at worst) Minkah is the BEST slot corner in the NFL... and so far, he’s been an outstanding FS (he’s already contributed as many turnovers as our entire secondary did all of last season).
In other words, I’d argue that Minkah would be a top 5 pick in this upcoming draft.
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Pardon my redundancy (I’ve this posted in many of threads)...
I don’t see the QBs in the 2020 draft class being that much better than Rudolph.
Rudolph + Fitzpatrick > Tua (et al) + Davis
Grant Delpit (S, LSU) might be better than Minkah, but maybe not. Who knows??? What we do know is that (at worst) Minkah is the BEST slot corner in the NFL... and so far, he’s been an outstanding FS (he’s already contributed as many turnovers as our entire secondary did all of last season).
In other words, I’d argue that Minkah would be a top 5 pick in this upcoming draft.
I agree
…...and the Steelers are getting a guy they already know can play at a high level, and he is on his rookie contract that is lower than whatever they will have to pay a player that they draft in the top 5 next year.....and he's a sure thing. I simply don't understand all the bellyaching.
The team gets a top-notch safety.
No chance of being a bust because he is already a successful player in the NFL.
He has immediately made players around him better.
He makes peanuts for a few more years.
He's everything you want a player to be when you draft them in the first round, with none of the risk.
.....What's not to like about it?
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100%. And who’s to know if we don’t end up drafting another great safety/CB in the 2020 draft to play with Minkah, Haden, Nelson, Hilton, and Sutton? Nobody knows the future so why not stay optimistic? Minkah fits in perfectly. Why grade the trade beyond that?Pardon my redundancy (I’ve this posted in many of threads)...
I don’t see the QBs in the 2020 draft class being that much better than Rudolph.
Rudolph + Fitzpatrick > Tua (et al) + Davis
Grant Delpit (S, LSU) might be better than Minkah, but maybe not. Who knows??? What we do know is that (at worst) Minkah is the BEST slot corner in the NFL... and so far, he’s been an outstanding FS (he’s already contributed as many turnovers as our entire secondary did all of last season).
In other words, I’d argue that Minkah would be a top 5 pick in this upcoming draft.
Some people say, he was the greatest safety that ever lived! Maybe he is that good... Maybe not. I don't know i Minkah is better than Delpit, but I KNOW he's better than Davis or Kam Kelly
There is also a timing component to all of this. If you take a high draft pick first round safety in 2020, when is he really going to start to become a star? Most likely year 2 or 3. So you have burned up another year or so of your quickly approaching HOF QB's expiration date.
Get that safety in his second year now, and he hits that critical 3-4th year when your star QB returns.
Unless MFF gets hurt or suddenly starts to suck, I fail to see how the Steelers can finish any worse than even in this trade?
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Spot on, Moj.
Plus, for once, I'd like to see the Steelers gamble on some picks/trades/free agents. They have done all that and more lately.
Is it a gamble? Sure. But isn't the draft a gamble? It's a different world now. I think they realize they have to do some "Un Steeler like" things to compete.
Agreed. Several high profile teams (Rams and Eagles most prominently and Green Bay with its defensive make-over) have shown that you may need to marry "draft and develop" with "free agent risks" to get a team over the hump.
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