Not really a debate?? QB is undoubtedly the most important position on the football field. You just gonna act like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Pat Mahomes, and Ben Roethlisberger weren't all drafted in the 1st round? I assume you believe Ben can still lead this team to a super bowl, or you're all in on Rudolph after a half of football. Nowadays, super bowls aren't won with mediocre QBs.Originally Posted by 86WARD
I mean we could sit here and list all the QBs taken in the first round that didn’t work out...lol. None of those picks are guaranteed. Fitzpatrick is a known commodity.
Nick Foles is a mediocre QB who won a Super Bowl.
Enthroned Into The Good Old Boys Club - 2024
You've got me with Foles...Here's the question...Is Minkah Fitzpatrick worth possibly drafting a franchise QB? And is he the next Troy or Ed Reed? For me, it's a hard no, but I also see this season as a wash. Between 7-9 and 5-11.
How does this trade make them worse before better? Have you seen the D. That’s what lost the first 2 games. Miami is getting the only QB in draft instantly better than Rudolph, and it’s not even a given. I said a year and a half ago Rudolph next best in draft behind Darnold, he can be as good or better than mayfield, Allen , Rosen for sure and maybe lamar if he comes back to earth. It’s a crapshoot for sure drafting QB’s, but what is for sure is Minkah better than any safety and possibly slot CB in future than anyone we have.we are much better than 2 days ago
If Mason Rudolph isn't the answer then it lengthens the rebuilding process. If he is the answer then Tomlin and Colbert are geniuses with this trade. I really see it as a desperation move though.
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The D played well enough to win that game. The offense was non existent in the 1st half
Say the rest of the season goes sideways. Mason is terrible. Steelers likely still manage to eek out a win or two more than the Phins. So they’d get Tua and Steelers get the consolation prize.
That’s assuming they’d even go QB. Unless Ben has all the nerve damage and hangs it up, he gets 2020 and likely 2021 to see if he can recapture previous glory.
Anyone think Davis or Edmunds is the answer at safety? Probably not. So they were staring down the barrel of going FS in 2020 round one.
Or you can just go get a guy you are already in love with. At the most likely 2020 round one draft position.
Why are some determined to twist all this to fit a doom and gloom narrative?
I honestly think the team will be lucky to win 5-6 games this year. But I can’t see a scenario where that leads to a 2020 QB pick unless they decided Bens arm needed amputated.
The offense was non existent in first half, yet they had 3 point lead. The second half D was awful,IMO thats where game was lost. I just don't see it as desperation getting a top 10 pick or whatever he was for a first round pick. Not to mention we move up with 4th and give them a 5th. A lot of people shit on Tomlin and Colbert but the need for secondary help wherever MP plays has been addressed. I give them props for that.Will it work out? Will Rudolph be the QB of future who knows, but atleast they haven't folded like Dolphins have. They are the team that is getting worse before better. Sometimes thats the way it has to be. Thats how Browns got all their talent by picking first every frigging year. I don't see Steelers taking that route. IF Im a Dolphins fan Im going fishing, golfing or to the beach. Steelers fans still have something to be excited about, hopefully the excitement will last the whole season and not just a couple of weeks.
Agreed, didn't the D give up 3 TD's in the last 4 Seattle possessions? That was terrible.
It was indeed. Defense still bleeds between the numbers and the offense struggles to make plays in the same area of the field. It’s a simple recipe for losing games.
Its probably a little early to tell with Edmunds but I agree probably not the answer, Davis definitely not. You look at a guy like Derwin James and he single handedly turned a game or two around last year. I only watched Chargers 3-4 times and saw he was a stud. don't see that with our Safeties. Can they get better, maybe under Belicheck. Thats why I like the trade. MP has a chance to be a game changer, at worst he is still better than what we have. We all have been waiting for Dupree and others to break out. It never happens. They are who they are. TJ stud from get go, Hargrave and Hayward as well. Lets face it Chickollo isn't getting better Artie probably isn't either. Im not saying cut Davis or Edmunds but if you can improve make the move.
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Its probably a little early to tell with Edmunds but I agree probably not the answer, Davis definitely not. You look at a guy like Derwin James and he single handedly turned a game or two around last year. I only watched Chargers 3-4 times and saw he was a stud. don't see that with our Safeties. Can they get better, maybe under Belicheck. Thats why I like the trade. MP has a chance to be a game changer, at worst he is still better than what we have. We all have been waiting for Dupree and others to break out. It never happens. They are who they are. TJ stud from get go, Hargrave and Hayward as well. Lets face it Chickollo isn't getting better Artie probably isn't either. Im not saying cut Davis or Edmunds but if you can improve make the move.
Agreed. Sometimes decisions are linked other times it’s in a vacuum. I suspect they had MF near the top of their board. He’s now available for a doable price. Make the move.
OK, so how does turnover differential figure into that recipe? I thought that if you win the turnover differential, that you win games.
So you want to draft (or take a gamble on) a “franchise QB” that you don’t really know how good they will be vs. the known commodity of Fitzpatrick. Granted Fitzpatrick could fail miserably here in Pittsburgh...but there’s less of a gamble on Fitzpatrick then a QB coming out of college. I’ll answer you this way...would I rather have Fitzpatrick than Kyler Murray or Johnny Manziel? Yes. Yes I would. Would I rather have Fitzpatrick then Baker Mayfield? Probably. Would I rather have Fitzpatrick then a stud prospect such as a Ryan Leaf? Yes. Would I rather have Fitzpatrick then Roethlisberger, Eli or Rivers? Maybe not.
Somewhere between the third preseason game and Week One, the concept of tackling was forgotten...the good news is, from his highlight package, Fitzpatrick tackles well...
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FWIW ESPN currently projects a probability of 28% that the Steelers traded away a top 10 first round pick (current projection #9 based on running 10,000 simulations of the rest of the schedule) and a 1% probability they traded away the #1 pick
https://es.pn/2UbveG9
As has been posted above, the Steelers already were going to be looking for another DB in a high round (although OLB was another possibility) - I assumed Davis was gone once there were apparently no meaningful negotiations to sign him to an extension in preseason
Fitzpatrick could be a bust but so could whoever they drafted. Steelers got a player who was a #11 pick in the first round and have him for 4 years rather than the 5 they would have for their 2020 first round choice (with a lower 5th year option cost since Fitzpatrick was drafted outside the top 10)
So the value of the traded pick and who they got for it seems to be comparable - we are not talking Mike Ditka trading away his entire draft for Ricky Williams
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I’m reading more than a few debates on whether the offense or defense has been worse. Just my 2cents but for me it’s the offense that has put the defense in bad spots. Too many 3&outs makes the 4th qtr tougher on a defense. Turnovers make everything tougher on a defense. Not saying the defense looks great but they have been better overall than the offense through 2 games. I think the defense gets much better before the offense truly gets clicking.
Yes, but when your 2nd year backup QB is pressed into service in the 2nd half and actually engineers drives that result in 2TD and 1FG, you would hope that the defense can support the kid with some stops. Instead they give up 21 points in a half of football.
I get it that a short field was given to them on one drive due to Donte "hands of stone" Moncrief, but the Defense needs to get some stops, not just be a speed bump for opposing offenses.
Usually you do. This time they didn't. One game doesn't change the overwhelming amount of evidence that winning turnover differential is really really important.
If you are specifically trying to call me out on it based on my multiple strongly worded comments on the subject over the past year, then you would do well to remember that I also posted at length that you have to be scoring tons of points on offense. You can't just get a bunch of turnovers on defense and be like "jobs done!". Your own offense has to at least match the output of the other offense. The Steelers did not. They punted, the Seahawks scored touchdowns. The "extra" possessions the defense gave them almost allowed them to close the gap, but not quit.
I'll stand by my statements despite the loss this time.
This is two games in a row where the defense has played like 25-35 more snaps than the offense. That is just too much. I am not a big time of possession guy, but I also don't think it is totally irrelevant. Let alone wearing down, or needing to expose Chickillo and other second-tier guys to more snaps, it is just too many opportunities to hand to guys like Brady and Wilson. You give top flight QBs that many chances to figure you out and expose your weaknesses, they are going to do it.
The offense needs to score more (obviously, Hi John Madden!) but aside from that they need to string some first downs together. They aren't even helping to flip field position. It is either a 3 and out or a score. Need to sometimes just move the ball a bit. Just like last season, this team is shaping up to have to go 80+ yards every time they touch the ball. A tall order.
I agree, I think a lot of it to blame is on Ben's cowboy shit. Yeah it can get you big plays and big yardage, but often puts the defense in a bad spot. 25-35 more snaps than the offense is downright unacceptable, and it's no surprise that when you give that many extra plays to Brady or Wilson, they'll eat you up. The defense actually looked good before they wore down vs Seattle
I realize it is a bit of a ridiculous argument...BUT...say that the defense had played 10 less snaps...does Dupree (a popular whipping boy I know) have a bit more juice on that last Wilson scramble and get him on the ground after a 5 yard gain instead of letting Wilson slip the tackle? Then the Seahawks punt and...who knows...?
Don't know, it's impossible to tell really. But I'm confident they wouldn't have allowed 3 straight scores and allowing them to run out the clock when they got the ball with over 5 minutes left.
I was honestly interested in your viewpoint, since you spent a lot of the offseason posting about turnover differential and the need to get guys to cause turnovers. I didn't really recall posts about putting up tons of points. Maybe because for a few seasons all people do is talk about the offensive skill around Ben and the Steelers should be putting up 30 points a game, but it never really materialized that way.
Can win the turnover battle, but if you cant score or stop the opposition from scoring, then its mainly just a shift in field position.
It actually is a bit ridiculous of an argument.
Seahawks had 3 TD drive in succession in the 2nd half. 6 Plays for 40 yds TD, 7 Plays for 75 yds TD and 6 plays for 75 yds and TD. Its on the Defense to get off the field on 3rd down and not give up 190 yds and 21 points in succession.
In between those 3 TD's, the Steelers had drives of 7 plays for 60 yds and a FG and 12 plays for 75 yds and TD. Plenty of time for highly trained professional athletes to not get tired like a 5 yr old at nap time. Both teams has 19 plays and the Steelers gave up 21 points, while Seattle gave up 10 in the same amount of plays.
Steelers defense appeared to be employing nickel, dime and dividend defense. A new Keith Butler system where they yield points a regularly scheduled intervals to allow for a steady stream of points to the opposing team. The Steelers offense rallied around their backup QB and put up 16 points, while the Steelers defense played matador and gave up 21 points, 237 yards and a 12 play 5:34 drive to end the football game.
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Fast Wilie Minkah will wear #39
Darren Perry's old #.
Honestly, the more I read and see his interview with Missi Matthews, the more excited I am that he and Edmunds are at Safety. Ball is life for this kid, he chases perfection and is never satisfied with the smallest error. One pre draft comment on him was "not quite on the same level of Jamal Adams when it comes to changing the entire culture of a locker room, but he is just as talented and probably more versatile"
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Lol. That’s funny.
Sure. Or you can score with your own offense at the same rate as the other team and win a shoot-out because you get an extra possession or two. Previous few seasons, the Steelers were converting a high rate of their drives into points. Ranking in the top 5-10 each season. This year they are converting a bottom 1/3 of their drives into points. In the last few seasons, teams helmed by a top tier QB have basically been good for 20-25 points simply by taking the field. Few defenses, if any, have been consistently generating stops/punts against good (let alone great offenses). So, what can you do? You can take the ball away. This prevents a score on your team and gives your own offense an "extra" chance to put up points. Steelers lost a ton of close games last year because their offense had a bunch of turnovers and the defense didn't generate any. So other teams got an extra possession or two to try and match the high end scoring output Ben and the offense were putting up. This year, so far, they can't even convert third downs consistently let alone score oodles of points. So, in 2018 they had the offensive part down. In 2019, they have the defensive part down --- but you have to be able to put the two together.
How is it any more ridiculous than needing to run the ball to control the flow of the game? I figure if you face more snaps than the average team, you have an increased chance for a breakdown or being a step slow to close out a gap. Steelers are facing somewhere between 5-10 more snaps per game on defense than most NFL teams are. In a game where one or two plays are all the difference between winning and losing...that has to matter.
And they are not matching that by some fantastic pace of play on offense. They are running some of the fewest number of plays per game in the league. I haven't totally done the math myself to figure it out, but something I saw online earlier this week said it has been about 2+ dozen plays per week through two weeks MORE that the Steelers defense has faced.
I can not come up with a way that exposing this defense to additional Brady and Wilson snaps has anything but a completely terrible impact.
Thanks, I am here all week....try the veal and don't forget to tip your waitress or waiter. (I'm not sure what is appropriate, so am trying to be server-neutral)
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