Goats thread vs. Seahawks

[86WARD]

Terryl Austin and Tim Bradley. It is their DBs that are constantly out of position and late to read their keys.

It was another week of the actual defensive alignment looking halfway decent and then a CB would blitz and the safety would be 3 days late in filling the open area. Combine that with the safeties and LBs being totally unable to communicate how covers the TE and this is all pretty easy to explain.

I totally understand that the buck stops at the top with Tomlin and then Butler. But Austin and Bradley were specifically brought in to fix the terrible play by the DBs. They ain't fixed anything.

Two gurus that can’t coach a unit up...ugh...

[steelreserve]

I don't think this is a Tomlin thing. I think it is Colbert's new jam post Jarvis Jones. He used to be all about # of starts at a big time program and production. Jarvis broke him. He is no never going to "waste" a 1st round pick on a guy without high end NFL athleticism.

It could be that Colbert is drafting uncoachable players, or that Tomlin can't coach players who need even a little help to be NFL-ready ... or it could be a bit of both. But player development has been abysmal on this team for 10 years and has recently gotten even worse.

I think it goes beyond just Colbert handing bad players to Tomlin. First of all, Tomlin either has a large say in the players being drafted, or if not, something's terribly wrong.

Second, this was a problem well before Jarvis Jones. The offensive line used to really suck. Then we spent four or five R1 and R2 picks on it in a row, and it still sucked. Then we got a position coach who knew what he was doing, and the same guys turned into one of the best lines in football. Same guys. We also seem to consistently have trouble finding depth in the mid to late rounds - except at a handful of positions, the players we take there (if they make the team at all) mostly end up being bad even for backups. With a coach who is decent at player development, you would expect some of those 4th and 6th round project picks to go the other way.

[Edman]

It could be that Colbert is drafting uncoachable players, or that Tomlin can't coach players who need even a little help to be NFL-ready ... or it could be a bit of both. But player development has been abysmal on this team for 10 years and has recently gotten even worse.

I think it goes beyond just Colbert handing bad players to Tomlin. First of all, Tomlin either has a large say in the players being drafted, or if not, something's terribly wrong.

Second, this was a problem well before Jarvis Jones. The offensive line used to really suck. Then we spent four or five R1 and R2 picks on it in a row, and it still sucked. Then we got a position coach who knew what he was doing, and the same guys turned into one of the best lines in football. Same guys. We also seem to consistently have trouble finding depth in the mid to late rounds - except at a handful of positions, the players we take there (if they make the team at all) mostly end up being bad even for backups. With a coach who is decent at player development, you would expect some of those 4th and 6th round project picks to go the other way.

The Offensive Line woes also disappeared when Ben was weaned away from backyard ball under Todd Haley's offense. Haley and Munchak ironically proceeded to find work after they left Pittsburgh.

Who, on this current coaching staff do you see going elsewhere and being a commodity?

[Mojouw]

It could be that Colbert is drafting uncoachable players, or that Tomlin can't coach players who need even a little help to be NFL-ready ... or it could be a bit of both. But player development has been abysmal on this team for 10 years and has recently gotten even worse.

I think it goes beyond just Colbert handing bad players to Tomlin. First of all, Tomlin either has a large say in the players being drafted, or if not, something's terribly wrong.

Second, this was a problem well before Jarvis Jones. The offensive line used to really suck. Then we spent four or five R1 and R2 picks on it in a row, and it still sucked. Then we got a position coach who knew what he was doing, and the same guys turned into one of the best lines in football. Same guys. We also seem to consistently have trouble finding depth in the mid to late rounds - except at a handful of positions, the players we take there (if they make the team at all) mostly end up being bad even for backups. With a coach who is decent at player development, you would expect some of those 4th and 6th round project picks to go the other way.

I don’t know if I can agree with all of that. Most NFL teams are struggling with offensive lineman. NCAA lines just don’t play like the pros do anymore. Munchack coached up Gilbert, Fieler, and AV - but Foster, Pouncey, and DeCastro were already in place and playing pretty darn well. Let’s not forget Beachum and how well he played for the Steelers and how bad he played elsewhere.

I think Steelers hit on more of their post 4th round picks than most teams. Not all teams, but most.

It would be interesting to see who is and isn’t doing well at player development across the league. Wonder how best to define and measure it? Percent of snaps might be a good start...

[Hawkman]

The Offensive Line woes also disappeared when Ben was weaned away from backyard ball under Todd Haley's offense. Haley and Munchak ironically proceeded to find work after they left Pittsburgh.

Who, on this current coaching staff do you see going elsewhere and being a commodity?

.....and Haley is working where now? How soon after he was hired by Cleveland was he fired? Fine example to prove your point.

[Mojouw]

The Offensive Line woes also disappeared when Ben was weaned away from backyard ball under Todd Haley's offense. Haley and Munchak ironically proceeded to find work after they left Pittsburgh.

Who, on this current coaching staff do you see going elsewhere and being a commodity?

.....and Haley is working where now? How soon after he was hired by Cleveland was he fired? Fine example to prove your point.

Tomlin has been in the league a long time and winning a good percentage of games, but he has no NFL coaching tree. He hires old coaches who no one wants to invest in. Plus they don’t seem to be that good.

Honestly is enyone besides Tomlin and the new o-line guy under 60 years old on this staff?

NEW IDEAS ARE NOT BAD THINGS.

[Shoes]

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/09/st...inners-losers/

[Hawkman]

Tomlin has been in the league a long time and winning a good percentage of games, but he has no NFL coaching tree. He hires old coaches who no one wants to invest in. Plus they don’t seem to be that good.

Honestly is enyone besides Tomlin and the new o-line guy under 60 years old on this staff?

NEW IDEAS ARE NOT BAD THINGS.

I’m all in favor of fresh blood if it makes sense. But getting sick of the “scorched earth” mentality around here when it comes to every one from ownership to the water boy. It leaches in to almost every thread. Makes it hard to decide which threads are worth reading.

[Mojouw]

I’m all in favor of fresh blood if it makes sense. But getting sick of the “scorched earth” mentality around here when it comes to every one from ownership to the water boy. It leaches in to almost every thread. Makes it hard to decide which threads are worth reading.

Agreed. I just get frustrated that when they do replace a coach it is with some retread from somewhere or other.

[Hawkman]

Agreed. I just get frustrated that when they do replace a coach it is with some retread from somewhere or other.

I think the Oline replacement was a good call because he is young and a disciple on Munch, but yeah, Butler and Fichtner may have a comfort factor thing. I would like to have seen more of an open interview. Still have 14 games. A lot of football to go. No coach is fired until after the season.

[DesertSteel]

0-2.... I've been a Rudolph fan since they drafted him. His play didn't surprise me. I'm not dreading Ben's last game at all. This is not based just on today, but just what I see in him. Wilson is a tough quarterback to come back against. One of the best. But the defense sucked in the second half.

On to SF... Here's to 1-2

[86WARD]

Tomlin has been in the league a long time and winning a good percentage of games, but he has no NFL coaching tree. He hires old coaches who no one wants to invest in. Plus they don’t seem to be that good.

Honestly is enyone besides Tomlin and the new o-line guy under 60 years old on this staff?

NEW IDEAS ARE NOT BAD THINGS.

Yes, yes, yes!!! All of Tomlins coordinators are holdover or “next in line” type guys. This team needs all new coaches. Fine..,keep Tomlin, but the rest has to change. Danny Smith should’ve been gone before LeBeau. Butler should’ve been gone two years ago and Fichtner...lol...he’s not an OC...he should’ve never been promoted to that job. So now you have three stale pieces of garbage and it’s too much to change all at one time so they’ll all be here for 2 more seasons at the very least. Worst coaching group of coordinators in the league.

[86WARD]

0-2.... I've been a Rudolph fan since they drafted him. His play didn't surprise me. I'm not dreading Ben's last game at all. This is not based just on today, but just what I see in him. Wilson is a tough quarterback to come back against. One of the best. But the defense sucked in the second half.

On to SF... Here's to 1-2

That’ll be 0-3...

[steelreserve]

I don’t know if I can agree with all of that. Most NFL teams are struggling with offensive lineman. NCAA lines just don’t play like the pros do anymore. Munchack coached up Gilbert, Fieler, and AV - but Foster, Pouncey, and DeCastro were already in place and playing pretty darn well. Let’s not forget Beachum and how well he played for the Steelers and how bad he played elsewhere.

I think Steelers hit on more of their post 4th round picks than most teams. Not all teams, but most.

It would be interesting to see who is and isn’t doing well at player development across the league. Wonder how best to define and measure it? Percent of snaps might be a good start...

It would be hard to say. I don't really know what a good metric is to define success ... on the other hand, "we have a lot of late-round backups who are shitty players" is a start. I don't honestly know whether that means we are drafting badly, or keeping players like Chickillo and McCullers around way too long when it's clear they're not going to develop, but something feels kind of dumb about it.

And Munchak makes comparisons tough, because he probably made a lot of players who really WERE sub-par into serviceable ones, when almost no other coach could have.

Didn't Beachum also have a serious knee injury in the offseason when he left Pittsburgh? That might at least explain that one.

[DesertSteel]

That’ll be 0-3...

I’m not rolling that way. I’m still holding to a 2-2 start. The only thing Tomlin is good for is rallying the troops in adversity.

[86WARD]

I’m not rolling that way. I’m still holding to a 2-2 start. The only thing Tomlin is good for is rallying the troops in adversity.

All that goes out the window when he travels west...that losing on the west coast may be the only thing he is consistent with.

[stillers4me]

The refs:

[Mojouw]

It would be hard to say. I don't really know what a good metric is to define success ... on the other hand, "we have a lot of late-round backups who are shitty players" is a start. I don't honestly know whether that means we are drafting badly, or keeping players like Chickillo and McCullers around way too long when it's clear they're not going to develop, but something feels kind of dumb about it.

And Munchak makes comparisons tough, because he probably made a lot of players who really WERE sub-par into serviceable ones, when almost no other coach could have.

Didn't Beachum also have a serious knee injury in the offseason when he left Pittsburgh? That might at least explain that one.

You might be right on Beachum. Hard to say with Munchak. On keeping guys around too long, I'm split. Chickillo is an example of too long. McCullers is an example of hanging on another year and it bears a bit of fruit. Big Dan is no great shakes, but he is a servicable depth NT at this point. It took forever, but he now is a credible back-up DL.

[steel striker]

Mason came and, did a great job and, TJ Watt is awesome. Please cut Moncreif! The defense needs to tackle better!

[86WARD]

Rudolph gets a game ball for coming in and playing like a backup QB is supposed to. Ready with the entire playbook open to him. Good job.

The defense played well enough to keep us in the game just not well enough to win it for us. Game ball to the defense.

Goats to dropped passes, penalties, blown assignments, and crying fans.

League wide, penalties are up 46% over last year. 46%...That is ASTRONOMICAL. 46%!