No Hargrave Extension?

[Mojouw]

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/08/re...avon-hargrave/

Honestly, this is about the dumbest thing I have heard of the Steelers doing in a long time.

You have a DT entering his prime that is the blueprint for what you want a DT to be in a pass wacky league. If you sign him NOW, you might get a bit of a hometown discount. But NOOO. We can't sign anyone during the season because some out-dated old man set of reasons. We also have to sign guys in some sort of order. Again, for outdated old man reasons.

Put it this way, if one guy between Haden and Hargrave has to hit the open or franchise tag market in 2020, who is less likely to even think of leaving? Haden isn't going anywhere else unless the Steelers cut him.

Who knows. It might all work out. It is so long until this really all comes to a resolution, but it just strikes me as the exact opposite of smart.

[polamalubeast]

I understand your point of view, but at the same time I think Hargrave believes he can have 15-20 million a year next year ...

[polamalubeast]

I do not want to hear next March that the steelers could sign Hargrave for less than 10 million or something like that, since it's not true .... His price is UP and it's very understandable and if his agent is smart he should wait in March unless the steelers offer something like 17 million a year right now.

[Mojouw]

I understand your point of view, but at the same time I think Hargrave believes he can have 15-20 million a year next year ...

No doubt. I suspect you can get Hargrave for 12-15 per year NOW and more like 20-25 LATER.

I see no reason that Hargrave shouldn't be offered basically Tuitt's contract as a starting point.

I mean, maybe they have. Who knows.

[polamalubeast]

No doubt. I suspect you can get Hargrave for 12-15 per year NOW and more like 20-25 LATER.

I see no reason that Hargrave shouldn't be offered basically Tuitt's contract as a starting point.

I mean, maybe they have. Who knows.

12-15 million will never be enough for Hargrave ... They would not even close to an agreement if the steelers offer that .... As in the first tweet in the post 3 of this thread, the asking price from Hargrave should be minimum at 17 million per year right now if we look at the market...Not next year,but Right now

[Mojouw]

12-15 million will never be enough for Hargrave ... They would not even close to an agreement if the steelers offer that .... As in the first tweet in the post 3 of this thread, the asking price from Hargrave should be minimum at 17 million per year right now if we look at the market...Not next year,but Right now

Set the price where ever you believe appropriate. Now is less than later.

How the Steelers do contracts is going to increasingly start biting them in the ass. The lack of guarantees, the lack of in season extensions, and the adherence to some sort of check-list on what order to do them is an increasingly out-dated model for doing front office $$$ stuff.

But then, I don't think Joe Haden is worth $11 million+ per year...so what do I know?

[BlackAndGold]

This was my worry. Any contract Hargrave signs with the Steelers he's likely to be losing $5-7 million(or more?) than what he would receive on the free agent market.

Also he would get more playing time else where.

[Fire Goodell]

good thing we got big dan mcclure

[polamalubeast]

Set the price where ever you believe appropriate. Now is less than later.

How the Steelers do contracts is going to increasingly start biting them in the ass. The lack of guarantees, the lack of in season extensions, and the adherence to some sort of check-list on what order to do them is an increasingly out-dated model for doing front office $$$ stuff.

But then, I don't think Joe Haden is worth $11 million+ per year...so what do I know?

Sometimes it's the player who decides to wait ... Possible that Hargrave thinks he can have at least 20 million per year..I am convinced that the steelers have tried, but they surely are not close

To not make contract extensions in the season, I do not think it's a problem .... The regular season lasts 4 months and your season lasts 5 months if you go in the Super Bowl .... After that you have like 7 months to negotiate with your player ... It's not like in Hockey where the season lasts 7-9 months if we include the playoffs and you have less time to negotiate..

For lack of guarantee, do not overreact because of Bell's situation .... Bell's price was way too high and we saw in the open market when he did not beat Gurley's contract ... It was not a financial win for Bell ... Just to look at this article

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/a...jets-contract/


It was Joel Corry who is a former agent, so he knows that more than me and you .... The offer should not be that bad, even in 2017 when the Bell agent had accepted the offer before that Bell refuses the offer according to Ed Bouchette

If it's a problem next year with JuJu or others, it's going to be time to panic, but for now, too early to panic!

[AtlantaDan]

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/08/re...avon-hargrave/

Honestly, this is about the dumbest thing I have heard of the Steelers doing in a long time.

You have a DT entering his prime that is the blueprint for what you want a DT to be in a pass wacky league. If you sign him NOW, you might get a bit of a hometown discount. But NOOO. We can't sign anyone during the season because some out-dated old man set of reasons. We also have to sign guys in some sort of order. Again, for outdated old man reasons.

Put it this way, if one guy between Haden and Hargrave has to hit the open or franchise tag market in 2020, who is less likely to even think of leaving? Haden isn't going anywhere else unless the Steelers cut him.

Who knows. It might all work out. It is so long until this really all comes to a resolution, but it just strikes me as the exact opposite of smart.

Takes two parties to agree to a contract. The price the Steelers are willing to pay now might be constrained not just by what Hargrave and Sean Davis want but also by the $21 million in dead money tied up under the 2019 cap in writing off the AB contract along with another $3 million in dead money for Burnett

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/cap/

[86WARD]

Set the price where ever you believe appropriate. Now is less than later.

How the Steelers do contracts is going to increasingly start biting them in the ass. The lack of guarantees, the lack of in season extensions, and the adherence to some sort of check-list on what order to do them is an increasingly out-dated model for doing front office $$$ stuff.

But then, I don't think Joe Haden is worth $11 million+ per year...so what do I know?

I think you’re 100% correct about the way they do their contracts. Times are changing and if players like Hargrave, Watt, JuJu, etc. start exiting...it’s gonna get ugly...

[polamalubeast]

I think you’re 100% correct about the way they do their contracts. Times are changing and if players like Hargrave, Watt, JuJu, etc. start exiting...it’s gonna get ugly...

The steelers are not dumb ... Not because it happen just once with Bell, it will happen another time ... And the reason why it had happened with Bell is that his salary demands were way too high .. Guaranteed money is just an excuse for him, since his agent accepted the offer of the steelers in 2017 before Bell rejected it according to Ed Bouchette.

[DesertSteel]

No doubt. I suspect you can get Hargrave for 12-15 per year NOW and more like 20-25 LATER.

I see no reason that Hargrave shouldn't be offered basically Tuitt's contract as a starting point.

I mean, maybe they have. Who knows.

Wow! Do you really think Hargrave is that good? $20-25M a year?!

[Mojouw]

Wow! Do you really think Hargrave is that good? $20-25M a year?!

I have no idea. Just arguing that it is almost always cheaper to sign a guy prior to that guy being able to field open market offers.

[hawaiiansteeler]

No doubt. I suspect you can get Hargrave for 12-15 per year NOW and more like 20-25 LATER.

there's no way Hargrave ever sniffs $20+ million/year.

[Mojouw]

Don't focus on the specific numbers. When has it not cost a team more to sign a guy after his contract runs out?

Now = X
Later = X+Y

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Wow! Do you really think Hargrave is that good? $20-25M a year?!

I have a hard time seeing them tie up $15 million a year in the NT. Buggs is the next man up in 2020 possibly.

Cant give a big contract to everybody, right.

[polamalubeast]

I have no idea. Just arguing that it is almost always cheaper to sign a guy prior to that guy being able to field open market offers.

What would you do if you were Hargrave's agent?

Sign a cheaper contract now where to wait in March where you could have much more?

The agents are not dumb ... He knows that his player could have much more if he waits ... It takes 2 parties if you want a contract to be done, but unfortunately we will hear in March that the steelers could have signed Hargrave cheaper when it's not true since Hargrave wanted to wait since he knows he can have much more in March ...

- - - Updated - - -

Don't focus on the specific numbers. When has it not cost a team more to sign a guy after his contract runs out?

Now = X
Later = X+Y

That's why Hargrave is smart to wait...Focus not just on the team in this situation

[Born2Steel]

I have a hard time seeing them tie up $15 million a year in the NT. Buggs is the next man up in 2020 possibly.

Cant give a big contract to everybody, right.

This is the future. Hargrave is most likely going to get his ‘payday’ somewhere else, barring some unexpected injury or retirement by one of the guys starting ahead of him. Buggs is the cheaper version of the same role. Not going to 100% rule out a later signing but gotta think the plan is to keep the backup role cheap.

[86WARD]

What would you do if you were Hargrave's agent?

Sign a cheaper contract now where to wait in March where you could have much more?

The agents are not dumb ... He knows that his player could have much more if he waits ... It takes 2 parties if you want a contract to be done, but unfortunately we will hear in March that the steelers could have signed Hargrave cheaper when it's not true since Hargrave wanted to wait since he knows he can have much more in March ...

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That's why Hargrave is smart to wait...Focus not just on the team in this situation

Or don’t sign one now and then get injured and sign a lesser one in March.

[polamalubeast]

Or don’t sign one now and then get injured and sign a lesser one in March.

I've seen a lot of players in the past in the NFL waiting that its value is at its best before signing their contract.

[steelreserve]

Why is Hargrave not signed? Antonio Brown's $21 million in dead cap space, that's why.

I see the numbers being thrown around in this thread and have to ask if we're talking about the same guy. $17M-$20M a year, are you kidding me? Tuitt's contract as a starting point? Was there some big crack party that everyone went to and I was the only one who wasn't invited?

Like - the guy has been pretty good, but that's it. They don't even have him on the field most of the time. (No, really, it's like 40%, Mike Hilton and James Washington were on the field more often.) He is clearly our third-most valuable defensive lineman.

It doesn't really matter what The Market gave to some other random DT, we can't afford that. Can't afford to pay a part-time player like one of the top 2 DTs in the league. So we'd have to let him walk if that's where it's headed. Sucks, but there just isn't room to spend $40 million on a three-person defensive line.

[Rotorhead]

Unfortunately for Hargrave and the Steelers is we have Heyward and Tuitt. If we didn’t have one of those two, Hargrave would get signed. Just bad timing honestly. We will draft Hargraves replacement (and ultimately Heywards replacement). I would be surprised if we sign Hargrave, as unfortunate as that is.

[polamalubeast]

Why is Hargrave not signed? Antonio Brown's $21 million in dead cap space, that's why.

I see the numbers being thrown around in this thread and have to ask if we're talking about the same guy. $17M-$20M a year, are you kidding me? Tuitt's contract as a starting point? Was there some big crack party that everyone went to and I was the only one who wasn't invited?

Like - the guy has been pretty good, but that's it. They don't even have him on the field most of the time. (No, really, it's like 40%, Mike Hilton and James Washington were on the field more often.) He is clearly our third-most valuable defensive lineman.

It doesn't really matter what The Market gave to some other random DT, we can't afford that. Can't afford to pay a part-time player like one of the top 2 DTs in the league. So we'd have to let him walk if that's where it's headed. Sucks, but there just isn't room to spend $40 million on a three-person defensive line.

The market changes every year to almost every position(except for the RB market)

I agree that steelers can not afford to pay Hargrave unfortunately, but it's almost a lock that Hargrave is going to have a bigger deal than Tuitt if his agent is smart ... unless the play of Hargraves regress a lot in 2019 but it's unlikely ... The market is getting higher at every position every year.

[steelreserve]

The market changes every year to almost every position(except for the RB market)

I agree that steelers can not afford to pay Hargrave unfortunately, but it's almost a lock that Hargrave is going to have a bigger deal than Tuitt if his agent is smart ... unless the play of Hargraves regress a lot in 2019 but it's unlikely ... The market is getting higher at every position every year.

I just don't quite understand why people think he is in that ballpark. His play has been pretty good in spots, never dominant, and only in sporadic use. On the whole he's just been ok. Competent, in a limited role.

Yes, that's better than the other useless players who took part in the Steelers DT Shit Festival for several years prior, but I have not ever seen him be outstanding. Or even GOOD for a sustained period of time. Honestly, I feel like he showed some flashes of greatness in his first season and it's been disappointing that it never went anywhere - all you get are still a couple occasional flashes here and there.

That is completely different from the dominant, game-changing player that commands that kind of contract. $15M-$17M a year? That had better be the best defensive player on your team by far. Hargrave is not even close. If someone really wants to pay him that, then good for him, but in that case we'd be fools to do anything but step aside and wish him luck.

[polamalubeast]

I just don't quite understand why people think he is in that ballpark. His play has been pretty good in spots, never dominant, and only in sporadic use. On the whole he's just been ok. Competent, in a limited role.

Yes, that's better than the other useless players who took part in the Steelers DT Shit Festival for several years prior, but I have not ever seen him be outstanding. Or even GOOD for a sustained period of time. Honestly, I feel like he showed some flashes of greatness in his first season and it's been disappointing that it never went anywhere - all you get are still a couple occasional flashes here and there.

That is completely different from the dominant, game-changing player that commands that kind of contract. $15M-$17M a year? That had better be the best defensive player on your team by far. Hargrave is not even close. If someone really wants to pay him that, then good for him, but in that case we'd be fools to do anything but step aside and wish him luck.

Look at a player like Grady Jarrett of the Atlanta Falcons

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-...ats-valuation/

Jarrett had a lot more playing time than Javon Hargrave, but Hargrave had 10 sacks after 3 seasons (9 for Jarrett) and last year in his 4th season, Jarrett had 6 sacks (same for Hargrave at his 3rd season) and Jarrett was on the franchise TAG and he signed a contract of 17 millions per year with the Falcons

And he plays in a position where it's easier to have sacks (4-3 DT vs 3-4 NT for Hargrave) so it's easy to understand why it's realistic for Hargrave to have 15-18 million a year on the open market ... It only takes one team and it's smart for Hargrave to be patient and wait in March

I do not know if it's smart for a team to give a lot of money to a player like that, but it's easy to understand why Hargrave think it's realistic to have a contract like that if he's waiting in March ... we can not blame him and we can not say that steelers are stupid to not pay Hargrave now, since we can not pay everyone and it's understandable why his price is very HIGH even now and Hargrave knows that his price could be higher if he has a very good season and he wait in march.

[DesertSteel]

I have a hard time seeing them tie up $15 million a year in the NT. Buggs is the next man up in 2020 possibly.

Cant give a big contract to everybody, right.

I’m with you. Next man up. Can’t pay big money to guys who come off the field.