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Thread: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    I really want to know what Tomlin/Colbert/Rooney, could have realistically done with the "Bell" situation...They made him an offer....a good offer...he said no. They tagged him....he said no. What else would you critics have done? Held him prisoner? Boy that would probably work.
    Realistically, the only thing they could've done was try to get some value back by using the tranny tag this year and got a deal in place with some other team while he inevitably refused to sign it (or matching whatever lower offer came in). There were no "good" options there. Guy was just a malfunctioning jerkoff.

    BUT, I also do not think Tomlin deserves any praise for how it turned out. It turned out shitty. Whatever Tomlin did or didn't do, it didn't help at all. Bell was a jerk, Tomlin watched him be a jerk for a few years, and then the jerk cycle ran its full course and we ended up no better off than we were.

    Like ... "Tomlin has had a lot of assholes on the team" does not mean the same thing as "Tomlin is great at dealing with asshole players and got the most out of them." Really, he got the average out of them. They just happened to be very good players independently of that. But only lasted the asshole-standard 3 or 4 years, while causing problems and missing games the whole time. Masterful indeed.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Ok. Cool. We are back to the same arguments that have been made on here a million times before. Shift the goalposts to whatever suits your predetermined conclusion, cherry pick comparisons, and ignore any data that doesn't fit. Good gracious. I think I'm gonna just have to give in and admit that Tomlin is a terrible coach who barely belongs in the NFL, AB needs discipline but also was a toxic jerk from day one, Haley was a terrible offensive coordinator who prevented the Steelers from gaining 10K yards and scoring 35+ points a game, Benny Snail is good, making the playoffs only counts if you make it in a way that makes the fans rigid with arousal and shoot black and gold rainbows out of their ass, and running the ball is the cure to almost every football ailment.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Know what the Clark and Ford situations have in common? They happened AFTER Bell didn't play for a year. Prior to that no one had done that ever. In the entire history of the franchise tag. The Steelers, quite reasonably, thought they would get one more 300-400 touch season out of Bell and then dump him on the market. A RB version of Cousins.
    In 2018, the Dolphins had put Jarvis Landry on the franchise TAG and they traded him after to the Browns ... I'm sure it happened other times before...I think it happen with Matt Cassel back in 2009 too.

    For Tomlin, I'm not saying it's just his fault, but I do not agree with how he handled the situation with his players was great like Brown or Bell ... Maybe not awful, but it was far from great ... Maybe it would have taken a miracle for that our locker room be not toxic with his players, this is possible, but he has not done a miracle

    The killer B's era was the most disappointing era in Steelers history ... It does not matter who is the fault on that, it does not matter,this era was a failure not matter what.

    For Benny Snell, WTF, yes I was wrong about him when I predicted that Snell was going to be good before the preseason game against Tampa Bay and he was a big disappointment, but everyone can be wrong about players, that's is not the first time I'm wrong on a player and it's not the last time I'm going to be wrong

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    In 2018, when it was obvious that Bell wanted to leave (remember his comments before our playoff game against the Jaguars) and that his salary demands were way too high, I would try to trade Bell in March after putting the franchise TAG on him as the Chiefs did with Dee Ford and the seahawks did with Frank Clark in this offseason

    I would have given permission at Bell talking with other teams and after I made a trade with one of the interressed teams like the Seahawks and the Chiefs did with one of their player.
    When it was obvious the market was going to crash, I would have sold all my stocks in 2005, then bought a bunch more in 2008 while also buying real estate at historic lows. I also would have bought into Bitcoin when it was a dollar/coin then sold it at $19k/coin. Man, it sure is a lot easier investing when I already know the outcome
    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Tomlin is that good.



    PATRIOTS**

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by smokin3000gt View Post
    When it was obvious the market was going to crash, I would have sold all my stocks in 2005, then bought a bunch more in 2008 while also buying real estate at historic lows. I also would have bought into Bitcoin when it was a dollar/coin then sold it at $19k/coin. Man, it sure is a lot easier investing when I already know the outcome
    Things you can not predict....Other things are easier to predict than others....The year before (2017) the steelers and Bell had 5 months to be able to agree on a long term contract ... It does not work

    In 2018, when there was evidence that Bell wanted a very big contract (Bell had already already sung in his rap that he wanted 15 million per year few years before and his price had risen by 17 million after) and that his price were too big for the Steelers, it would have been the time to move on and try to trade him after, instead of making false hope, especially when the steelers were not close again before the steelers put the franchise TAG on Bell in 2018...I also had enough of his attitude, even at this time, so that would have been the time to move on even at this time.

    For Antonio Brown after the 2016 season, I agree that it's easier to say after and that's why I always say the words with hindsight, but in the case of Bell, there was so many evidence that his price was far too big for the Steelers and that he had even spoken before the playoffs game before the Jaguars to not play the 2018 season, so I hope the steelers were not surprised at this decision to sit the season, since I was not .. Fortunately,James Conner was much better in 2018(it was obvious in the preseason) than he was at his rookie year and Samuels was a competant Backup (even if the steelers just started to trust Samuels more often in mid season, because he was only a rookie 5th round draft pick).

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    I really want to know what Tomlin/Colbert/Rooney, could have realistically done with the "Bell" situation...They made him an offer....a good offer...he said no. They tagged him....he said no. What else would you critics have done? Held him prisoner? Boy that would probably work.
    I would’ve turned it really ugly taking him to arbitration over whether that season should count or not and I would’ve tagged him every time until he was free and he could sit. But then I’m an asshole...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    I would’ve turned it really ugly taking him to arbitration over whether that season should count or not and I would’ve tagged him every time until he was free and he could sit. But then I’m an asshole...
    Well there is that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Realistically, the only thing they could've done was try to get some value back by using the tranny tag this year and got a deal in place with some other team while he inevitably refused to sign it (or matching whatever lower offer came in). There were no "good" options there. Guy was just a malfunctioning jerkoff.

    BUT, I also do not think Tomlin deserves any praise for how it turned out. It turned out shitty. Whatever Tomlin did or didn't do, it didn't help at all. Bell was a jerk, Tomlin watched him be a jerk for a few years, and then the jerk cycle ran its full course and we ended up no better off than we were.

    Like ... "Tomlin has had a lot of assholes on the team" does not mean the same thing as "Tomlin is great at dealing with asshole players and got the most out of them." Really, he got the average out of them. They just happened to be very good players independently of that. But only lasted the asshole-standard 3 or 4 years, while causing problems and missing games the whole time. Masterful indeed.
    I wasn’t giving Tomlin any praise.

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland


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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    They were right for the character concern and things like that and this is a big deal since it can kill a locker room!

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Yep... a R3 & a R5 for AB was about all we were going to get. (No other team wanted this headache.)

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Yep... a R3 & a R5 for AB was about all we were going to get. (No other team wanted this headache.)
    And without this trade, the Steelers would not have had Devin Bush and the Steelers would probably probably be weak and slow in that position, although with the addition of Barron would have made this team better than last year at this position, but Barron is not a 3 down LB.


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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    And without this trade, the Steelers would not have had Devin Bush and the Steelers would probably probably be weak and slow in that position, although with the addition of Barron would have made this team better than last year at this position, but Barron is not a 3 down LB.

    For the first time ever, Andrew Fillipponi may be correct about something.

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    For the first time ever, Andrew Fillipponi may be correct about something.



    Man....this guy is getting a lot of run!

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    For the first time ever, Andrew Fillipponi may be correct about something.
    Andrew Fillipponi is correct sometimes,but just not often...

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    About the only thing correct in that analysis is the character concerns...lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    And without this trade, the Steelers would not have had Devin Bush and the Steelers would probably probably be weak and slow in that position, although with the addition of Barron would have made this team better than last year at this position, but Barron is not a 3 down LB.

    Can someone explain to me how the crappy Brown draft picks got us Bush? We didn't use either of them in the trade.

    Is it just "omg we wouldn't have ever made a move if we didn't have more draft picks in general" or "omg we wouldn't have ever made a move if we didn't draft a receiver in round 3, which we wouldn't have done without an extra pick?" Because either of those is a pretty big reach.

    Plenty of ways to get yourself more draft picks. Plenty of ways to get replacement receivers, too, and in fact, we were overflowing with them.

    People are just so desperate to find a silver lining that they'll go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to ignore the simple truth - we weren't playing some kind of 4D chess with the Brown trade, we got taken to the cleaners. Maybe we made a separate move that helped us, for very, very loosely related reasons, but any connection between the two is tenuous AT BEST.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Can someone explain to me how the crappy Brown draft picks got us Bush? We didn't use either of them in the trade.

    Is it just "omg we wouldn't have ever made a move if we didn't have more draft picks in general" or "omg we wouldn't have ever made a move if we didn't draft a receiver in round 3, which we wouldn't have done without an extra pick?" Because either of those is a pretty big reach.

    Plenty of ways to get yourself more draft picks. Plenty of ways to get replacement receivers, too, and in fact, we were overflowing with them.

    People are just so desperate to find a silver lining that they'll go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to ignore the simple truth - we weren't playing some kind of 4D chess with the Brown trade, we got taken to the cleaners. Maybe we made a separate move that helped us, for very, very loosely related reasons, but any connection between the two is tenuous AT BEST.
    At this point, 1:00 EST on 9/5/19, you really think the Steelers got “taken to the cleaners” when discussing Antonio Brown and that trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Can someone explain to me how the crappy Brown draft picks got us Bush? We didn't use either of them in the trade.

    Is it just "omg we wouldn't have ever made a move if we didn't have more draft picks in general" or "omg we wouldn't have ever made a move if we didn't draft a receiver in round 3, which we wouldn't have done without an extra pick?" Because either of those is a pretty big reach.

    Plenty of ways to get yourself more draft picks. Plenty of ways to get replacement receivers, too, and in fact, we were overflowing with them.

    People are just so desperate to find a silver lining that they'll go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to ignore the simple truth - we weren't playing some kind of 4D chess with the Brown trade, we got taken to the cleaners. Maybe we made a separate move that helped us, for very, very loosely related reasons, but any connection between the two is tenuous AT BEST.
    You’re right that it wasn’t some master plan formulated at the time of the AB trade, but this connection is based on Colbert’s comments after the draft that they never would have given up a day 2 pick to move up in the draft if they didn’t have another day 2 pick. And it turns out they only had an extra day 2 pick because of the AB trade.

    So if you take Colbert at his word, then technically it’s true that we wouldn’t have acquired Bush if not for the AB trade.

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    At this point, 1:00 EST on 9/5/19, you really think the Steelers got “taken to the cleaners” when discussing Antonio Brown and that trade?

    It all depends on what you mean. Yes AB is still acting nutty but he is going to play for the Raiders, and given how talented he is, you can still say that the Raiders got the best of the deal if you look at trades for comparable WRs (Cooper, ODB).

    But on the other hand, I don’t know that you can really claim the Steelers made a BAD deal because they probably had no other option. At the time I thought the Steelers held the cards with AB because he was under contract and they could have forced him to stay. But looking at it now I truly believe AB would have retired rather than play for the Steelers.

    So I can’t criticize the Steelers for the deal they made. It was the best deal they were gonna make.

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    AB probably getting suspended LOL

    gee, and here I thought I had to wait until a few games before a meltdown

    https://steelersdepot.com/2019/09/sc...ument-with-gm/

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    AB probably getting suspended LOL

    gee, and here I thought I had to wait until a few games before a meltdown

    https://steelersdepot.com/2019/09/sc...ument-with-gm/
    Holy shit did that get out of control in a hurry.



    Now there's chatter about trying to void his contract entirely:

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Again...how many productive and relatively calm years did the Steelers get out of him? Let's talk more about how terrible at managing things this organization is. I can't wait.

    There is now definite talk about cutting AB out of Oakland. Not clear if it will happen, but they are thinking about it.

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Again...how many productive and relatively calm years did the Steelers get out of him? Let's talk more about how terrible at managing things this organization is. I can't wait.

    There is now definite talk about cutting AB out of Oakland. Not clear if it will happen, but they are thinking about it.
    Same is true with Martavis Bryant. Pittsburgh has a knack for jettisoning their high profile receivers to Oakland at the end of their shelf life.

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeegee Thompson View Post
    Holy shit did that get out of control in a hurry.

    Lol.

    I was thinking of the exact same meme.

    I was just saying that as nutty as AB is, he’ll still produce for the Raiders on the field. Now I might have to admit being way wrong on that.

    I’m actually a little surprised that the Raiders are willing to shoot themselves in the foot... but you have to respect them for laying down the law. If they really decide to play hard with AB they can still void his guarantees for conduct detrimental to the team.

    AB’s agent needs to get ahold of him and tell him that he has to start playing by everyone else’s rules or his career could be in jeopardy.

    I have to admit, the AB drama still fascinates me.

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    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Again...how many productive and relatively calm years did the Steelers get out of him? Let's talk more about how terrible at managing things this organization is. I can't wait.

    There is now definite talk about cutting AB out of Oakland. Not clear if it will happen, but they are thinking about it.
    If they simply release him he will be in New England within a matter of weeks.

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    You know after that KC playoff game where AB live streamed the lock room footage I really thought who does that? Now the Steelers look real good not have him on the team he is now the Raiders problem. AB is NUTS!

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    If they simply release him he will be in New England within a matter of weeks.
    Will he though? They aren’t going to pay him $30M guaranteed. BB isn’t going to put up with his BS.

    He had the chance to have a fresh start, good coach, a ton of money and he couldn’t even be bothered to show up to practice.

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    If they simply release him he will be in New England within a matter of weeks.
    Belichick won't put up with any of MC Hammer Jr's nonsense. I doubt they'd even give him a sniff. They certainly won't put up the kind of cash Brown would be looking for.

    AB doesn't care about winning championships. He only cares about his stats and the money those stats would bring him.

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeegee Thompson View Post
    Belichick won't put up with any of MC Hammer Jr's nonsense. I doubt they'd even give him a sniff. They certainly won't put up the kind of cash Brown would be looking for.

    AB doesn't care about winning championships. He only cares about his stats and the money those stats would bring him.
    Agree Belichick will not put up with his crap and would cut him loose once AB was of no further use to him

    But Randy Moss was comparably toxic when he left the Raiders for the Pats. If AB is cut loose by the Raiders no team is going to give him a big $ contract for now. Going to New England would allow him to be in a good passing offense while trying to rehab his image.

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    Re: The Steelers' decision is looking even better in wake of AB's new helmet saga and offseason in Oakland

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Agree Belichick will not put up with his crap and would cut him loose once AB was of no further use to him

    But Randy Moss was comparably toxic when he left the Raiders for the Pats. If AB is cut loose by the Raiders no team is going to give him a big $ contract for now. Going to New England would allow him to be in a good passing offense while trying to rehab his image.
    Reminds me of Albert Haynesworth when he bitched and moaned his way out of Washington to New England.



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