Ward says you ‘can’t compare’ his stats to AB’s

[polamalubeast]

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Hines Ward retired from football after the 2011 season as the Steelers' all-time leader in receptions, yards and touchdowns. He still holds those records.

And just as Ward's records live on in the Steel City, so does his appreciation for the city that gave him his start as a pro. Drafted in 1998 out of the University of Georgia, Ward quickly became a fan favorite for his tenacious style and gritty attitude — always, somehow, delivered with a smile.

What we do need to address, however, is a comment Ward made regarding this dynamic. Even though Brown had the numbers, focusing solely on stats misses the point in his eyes.

"Yes, we were a running team, I played with Jerome Bettis, we ran the ball 40-50 times a game," Ward said. "You can’t compare my stats to what Antonio Brown is doing right now. It’s not even comparable. But in the big games, when it mattered the most, I took great pride in being the go-to guy, being someone the team can lean on. I played like that, I learned that from [Lynn Swann] and [John Stallworth]."

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https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2...n-steelers-hh/


https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh...ld--123189258/

[Fire Goodell]

Give me Hines over AB any day

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

2 completely different WR's. Brown a vertical threat, with big play ability, but also to get big yards after the catch. Ward a possession type WR that made his living with route running, contested catches and toughness. Yes the runass ratios of the 2 eras are different as well.

The entire career of Ward the Steelers were looking to draft WR's that were downfield threats (Plaxico, Smoketonio Holmes, Mike Wallace) as he was never going to stretch the field. But his blocking was highly regarded in that era of running the football.

[86WARD]

For the record, Ward had roughly 8 TDs over 45 yards. Brown had roughly 9 TDs during his time in Pittsburgh...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

For the record, Ward had roughly 8 TDs over 45 yards. Brown had roughly 9 TDs during his time in Pittsburgh...

cool. So by roughly 8TD, do you mean higher or lower than 8TD's in 14 seasons for Ward? Or do you mean 8TD in roughly 14 seasons for Ward and 9TD for roughly 9 seasons in Pittsburgh for Brown?

[86WARD]

Steelers tenure. Basically Brown isn’t that much of a vertical threat...lol. Better one than Ward but not really a “vertical threat”. Somewhere in between Ward and Randy Moss but closer to Wards half.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Steelers tenure. Basically Brown isn’t that much of a vertical threat...lol. Better one than Ward but not really a “vertical threat”. Somewhere in between Ward and Randy Moss but closer to Wards half.

How can you compare the 14 year tenure of Hines Ward to the 9 year tenure of Antonio Brown as equal? If we extrapolate Brown over a similar 14 year career, then he would have 14 long TD's.

I think if we look at receptions of 40+ yards and compare Ward to Brown, we will see what we all know. That Ward wasn't known for the long ball or running away from a lot of defenders, where Brown had the speed and elusiveness to generate plays of 40+ yards more frequently.

[Butch]

Give me Hines over AB any day

yep me too.

Keep in mind that Hines got a lot of his receptions from HOF QBs such as Maddox, Stewart and Tomczak for the first 1/2 of his career. If AB thinks Ben is bad now just imagine how he would have been with those guys to start his career or how much better Hines would have been with Ben his entire career.

[Fire Goodell]

For the record, Ward had roughly 8 TDs over 45 yards. Brown had roughly 9 TDs during his time in Pittsburgh...

Ward has a big time lead in number of souls destroyed. AB = not one.

I woulda loved to see Hines and Juju in their prime playing in the mid 2000's when crackbacks were legal lol. DB's would fear that offense. Juju might have even been more nasty. That hit he laid on Burfict, I'm not sure Ward could have pulled that off as well. Juju does have like 20 lbs on Ward.

[vasteeler]

I'm glad Ward has all the recieving records and not AB

[Butch]

Ward has a big time lead in number of souls destroyed. AB = not one.

I woulda loved to see Hines and Juju in their prime playing in the mid 2000's when crackbacks were legal lol. DB's would fear that offense. Juju might have even been more nasty. That hit he laid on Burfict, I'm not sure Ward could have pulled that off as well. Juju does have like 20 lbs on Ward.

LOL Love it.

[86WARD]

How can you compare the 14 year tenure of Hines Ward to the 9 year tenure of Antonio Brown as equal? If we extrapolate Brown over a similar 14 year career, then he would have 14 long TD's.

I think if we look at receptions of 40+ yards and compare Ward to Brown, we will see what we all know. That Ward wasn't known for the long ball or running away from a lot of defenders, where Brown had the speed and elusiveness to generate plays of 40+ yards more frequently.

Great so give Brown 14...lol. Point is...Brown isn’t the “vertical threat” that you are claiming. Only 6 more than Hines Ward. No one is saying Ward was a speedster or more talented than Brown. In fact Ward was one of the slower receivers in the league...however, every now and again he was able to pull away from defenders. Brown is one of the more dynamic players in the league can score at anytime he has the ball and at any point on the field. Not the fastest, but he plays fast but he’s not the big bad vertical threat that you say.

[86WARD]

Ward has a big time lead in number of souls destroyed. AB = not one.

I woulda loved to see Hines and Juju in their prime playing in the mid 2000's when crackbacks were legal lol. DB's would fear that offense. Juju might have even been more nasty. That hit he laid on Burfict, I'm not sure Ward could have pulled that off as well. Juju does have like 20 lbs on Ward.

That would’ve been delicious!!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Maybe I used a poor choice of words in referring to AB as a vertical threat in an earlier post. Here is PFF referring to "elite deep threats" in the NFL. Ranks only behind Desean Jackson, TY Hilton and AJ Green.

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https://twitter.com/PFF/status/971819607194513411

[st33lersguy]

Give me Hines anyday:
Tough
Team player
Never quit on his team
Productive with guys like Kordell and Turnover Tommy Maddox

[steelreserve]

What is this nonsense about Brown not being a better "deep threat" than Ward? It's impossible to deny that. But they were two completely different players, so that's a stupid comparison anyway. The reasons why each one was great are pretty much the exact opposite of each other.

I do think Brown's 9 years vs. Ward's 14 years is a valid point, though. Brown cut his career in Pittsburgh short by 5 years by being a dickless idiot. I don't care what he does for the Raiders or the Patriots or any of the other 2-3 teams he'll inevitably be on in those 5 seasons, it doesn't do shit for us. So in that sense, it absolutely matters.

[hawaiiansteeler]

What is this nonsense about Brown not being a better "deep threat" than Ward? It's impossible to deny that.

agreed.

despite playing 5 fewer seasons than Hines AB had 39 receptions of over 40 yards while Ward had only 22.

[teegre]

They were entirely different.

Ward cared about winning games.

AB cared about his stats.

/thread

[86WARD]

What is this nonsense about Brown not being a better "deep threat" than Ward? It's impossible to deny that. But they were two completely different players, so that's a stupid comparison anyway. The reasons why each one was great are pretty much the exact opposite of each other.

I do think Brown's 9 years vs. Ward's 14 years is a valid point, though. Brown cut his career in Pittsburgh short by 5 years by being a dickless idiot. I don't care what he does for the Raiders or the Patriots or any of the other 2-3 teams he'll inevitably be on in those 5 seasons, it doesn't do shit for us. So in that sense, it absolutely matters.

There is no comparison. The point was that Ward for as little a deep threat that he was wasn’t that far off from what Brown was. Brown isn’t the huge vertical threat that people claim he is. I mean compare him to Julio Jones and Jones is more of a threat.

Theres no comparison between the two. One is a football player. One is an over emotional baby diva.

[86WARD]

Give me Hines anyday:
Tough
Team player
Never quit on his team
Productive with guys like Kordell and Turnover Tommy Maddox

Don’t forget Kent Graham.

[steelreserve]

There is no comparison. The point was that Ward for as little a deep threat that he was wasn’t that far off from what Brown was. Brown isn’t the huge vertical threat that people claim he is. I mean compare him to Julio Jones and Jones is more of a threat.

Theres no comparison between the two. One is a football player. One is an over emotional baby diva.

No, Brown is not what I would call a premier "vertical" or "stretch the field" deep threat or whatever cliche is used to describe that. I think he was a lot more elusive than Ward, and more of a danger to turn a small opening into a big 27-yard play or 35-yard play or whatever, and also more liable to come down with circus catches in that kind of range.

He also caught a fair number of bullshit passes that went nowhere. "Throw the ball to Brown immediately at the line of scrimmage and let him make a play by making people miss." That probably worked like 1 time out of every 50 that they tried it. He was not that kind of elusive, he was much better in the middle of a play, when people were already in motion and committed to a direction (probably why he was so good at punt returns, as well as taking those intermediate plays and turning them into big ones).

In the end, I guess their career YPC is only like 1 yard apart, so they got to the same place for different reasons.

[Butch]

No, Brown is not what I would call a premier "vertical" or "stretch the field" deep threat or whatever cliche is used to describe that. I think he was a lot more elusive than Ward, and more of a danger to turn a small opening into a big 27-yard play or 35-yard play or whatever, and also more liable to come down with circus catches in that kind of range.

He also caught a fair number of bullshit passes that went nowhere. "Throw the ball to Brown immediately at the line of scrimmage and let him make a play by making people miss." That probably worked like 1 time out of every 50 that they tried it. He was not that kind of elusive, he was much better in the middle of a play, when people were already in motion and committed to a direction (probably why he was so good at punt returns, as well as taking those intermediate plays and turning them into big ones).

In the end, I guess their career YPC is only like 1 yard apart, so they got to the same place for different reasons.

Bubble Screens!!!

Oh how I hate them.

[HollywoodSteel]

Give me Hines over AB any day

It’s hard to argue with that sentiment today, but in all honesty, would ANY of us have said that this time last year?

Don’t get me wrong, Ward was something special. Great leader... tough... clutch... best blocking WR in the history of the game and brought such JOY to the physicalaliity of it, he was absolutely one of a kind and totally deserves to be in the HOF for all those reasons that soar above mere statistics.

However... Brown was LEGITIMATELY on pace to be perhaps be the greatest WR to ever play the game. Yes, it’s true offensive football has changed, especially for the Steelers, since Ward’s time with us, but you could have put Ward on any other team in the NFL and I still doubt he’d have been overwhelmingly considered the very best there is at the position.

Brown was pretty much universally considered to be the very best, and without Brady, Manning, Brees or Rodgers throwing to him.

Had we won the game in New Orleans last year (a game where Brown was awesome btw) and had no missing of practice, and we’d gone on to a nice play off run... I have to be believe Brown and Ben would have made nice behind the scenes, and we wouldn’t even be discussing the notion of ANYONE EVER being a more valuable receiver than AB.

But like I said, circumstances having unfolded as they did... sure, I can understand the sentiment.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Hines wasn't a saint either, yes AB was worse but there was some diva in Ward also.

Hines got a DUI, had a contract holdout, and publicly threw Ben under the bus for not playing with a concussion without knowing that Ben wasn't cleared by the team doctors to play.

[Hawkman]

Hines wasn't a saint either, yes AB was worse but there was some diva in Ward also.

Hines got a DUI, had a contract holdout, and publicly threw Ben under the bus for not playing with a concussion without knowing that Ben wasn't cleared by the team doctors to play.

.....but Hines never wanted to be anything but a Steeler......he even thought about trying the open market after the team let him go, and quickly retired.

- - - Updated - - -

A wager, AB will never be a SB MVP.

[Butch]

It’s hard to argue with that sentiment today, but in all honesty, would ANY of us have said that this time last year?

Don’t get me wrong, Ward was something special. Great leader... tough... clutch... best blocking WR in the history of the game and brought such JOY to the physicalaliity of it, he was absolutely one of a kind and totally deserves to be in the HOF for all those reasons that soar above mere statistics.

However... Brown was LEGITIMATELY on pace to be perhaps be the greatest WR to ever play the game. Yes, it’s true offensive football has changed, especially for the Steelers, since Ward’s time with us, but you could have put Ward on any other team in the NFL and I still doubt he’d have been overwhelmingly considered the very best there is at the position.

Brown was pretty much universally considered to be the very best, and without Brady, Manning, Brees or Rodgers throwing to him.

Had we won the game in New Orleans last year (a game where Brown was awesome btw) and had no missing of practice, and we’d gone on to a nice play off run... I have to be believe Brown and Ben would have made nice behind the scenes, and we wouldn’t even be discussing the notion of ANYONE EVER being a more valuable receiver than AB.

But like I said, circumstances having unfolded as they did... sure, I can understand the sentiment.

Maybe you didn't see this earlier but...Ward had success's early in his career with guys like Stewart, Tomczak and Maddox throwing him the ball. AB had Ben his entire career. Just imagine if the tables had been turned and it was Ward who had Ben his entire career and Brown had to deal with the other guys. Not sure how Great Brown would or would not have been. It helps AB that he had a HOF QB throwing him the ball his entire career. How did he do when Ben was not in the game? I know it wasn't so good with him and Jones. It kinda tells me he would not have been so good with those other guys either.

[Butch]

.....but Hines never wanted to be anything but a Steeler......he even thought about trying the open market after the team let him go, and quickly retired.

- - - Updated - - -

A wager, AB will never be a SB MVP.

Exactly this...and he even admitted that he felt bad about the holdout later on. https://steelersdepot.com/2017/04/hi...always-regret/
BTW that holdout was a grand total of 15 days if I am not mistaken.

We won 2 SBs with Hines and as stated by Hawkman he was the MVP of 40. He was mostly humble, but do not confuse that with being perfect. He had some flaws but if that's you point it's really not much of a point. The difference between him and AB are much wider than you seem to be making it.

[Hawkman]

My friends who are Ravens fans, (and yes they are good people), still say that Hines was a dirty player, and I ask why.....because he liked blocking as much as he liked catching. “THE HINES WARD RULE”. He did it until someone said he couldn’t.

[HollywoodSteel]

Maybe you didn't see this earlier but...Ward had success's early in his career with guys like Stewart, Tomczak and Maddox throwing him the ball. AB had Ben his entire career. Just imagine if the tables had been turned and it was Ward who had Ben his entire career and Brown had to deal with the other guys. Not sure how Great Brown would or would not have been. It helps AB that he had a HOF QB throwing him the ball his entire career. How did he do when Ben was not in the game? I know it wasn't so good with him and Jones. It kinda tells me he would not have been so good with those other guys either.

I read all of that.

AB was still a better receiver, and I honestly believe you would have said the same thing this time last year. I don’t think you’d be taking into consideration all these factors in Ward’s favor then. It wouldn’t even be thought.

If none Steelers fans would be watching us say Ward was better than AB they’d call us crazy.

And I’m not trying to insult anyone. I don’t blame you one bit for liking Ward more than AB. We probably all pretty much do now. But such is the way of fandom.

Was Hines Ward better than say Cris Carter? I think Carter comes out better.

Was AB better than Chris Carter? I say AB was more talented with more production through 8 years of their careers?

I’ll take AB every time

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Can we please get real about the "Hines Ward was productive with Tomczak, Graham, Kordell, etc".

1999 Tomczak and Stewart are QB and Ward has 638 receiving yards
2000 Graham and Stewart are QB and Ward has 672 yards
2001 Kordell Stewart has a pro bowl season and Ward has 1,003 yards
2002 Stewart and Maddox combine for 4000 yards and Ward has 1300 yards

So when Kevin Gilbride gets the boot after 2000 and Mularkey throws the football more starting in 2001....the Steelers put up more passing numbers and Ward gets more receiving yardage. Nothing that shocking if you remember being a fan back then.

Two different types of WR's. Two different time periods. One known for big plays, the other known for being reliable receiver and knocking out Keith Rivers, Ed Reed, etc.