Top 25 quarterbacks of all time(Ben is number 19,Bradshaw is 17th)

[polamalubeast]

I never really followed the Dolphins closely so I ask the rest of you, why the hell was that the case? I mean, historically Marino had one of the best head coaches ever with a clearly brilliant football mind. You’d think they could have been the Brady/Billichick of their era. They were the team that straight up out coached an objectively better ‘85 Bears.

So why couldn’t they assemble talent? Was it the fault of the coach? The Dolphins organization? Or just oddly bad luck?

I do not know if it was the front office or that Don Shula who was not the same coach as he was in the 1970s who was the biggest problem for the Dolphins during the Marino era, but Miami had 2 major problem ... Unable to run the football and not able to stop the run, especially in the times that Miami was in the playoffs.

The most extreme example was against the Chargers in the playoffs in 1994.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...9501080sdg.htm

They lose the game by one point!

[HollywoodSteel]

I don't think it was so much they were out-coached as much as it was that Marino's quick release was the kryptonite for da' Bears. Singletarry could blitz with the best of them but was a liability in coverage. The key to da' Bears defense was how quickly they could get to the QB and rattle him early and often. By the end of the game most QB's were happy to get off the field with everything still intact. They couldn't do that with Dan, he was just a beat quicker.

Oh, no doubt that Marino was the key to success. His skillset was 100% necessary to carry out the game plan that could pick apart that defense. It was just an example of a great QB/coach combination defeating an overall superior team, and I’m just wondering why it didn’t happen more often and when it counted.

Somehow the Dolphins managed to let the Patriots into the Super Bowl that year. What a travesty that was.

I did find a couple of vastly contradicting opinions on why the Marino years weren’t more fruitful. The more interesting, and controversial, take mostly blamed Marino. The upshot being that he had 17 years, enough of those years with good enough weapons to get it done if he had been more accurate, a smarter decision maker, and mostly come through when he absolutely had to.

I’m not knowledgeable enough to form a take of my own, but the arguments sounded compelling if the facts behind them were accurate.

[polamalubeast]

For the Bears in the 1980s, their biggest problem at the QB position was that Jim McMahon was unable to stay healthy..He had like 21 straight wins from 1984 to 1987 I think but he was rarely healthy.

I do not know if the Bears would have won the super bowl in 1984 or 1986 with him as QB, but the QB situation at the end of the 1986 season and in the playoffs was a huge mess

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...8701030chi.htm

The game against the 49ers in 1984 was also awful

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...8501060sfo.htm

[Butch]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that I thought you were calling Aikman Dilfer-like. I was just using Dilfer as an extreme example of someone who benefited from a stacked team while not being part of the actual stacking... if that makes sense. I’m just saying that Aikman, by contrast was part of the reason the Cowboys won multiple championships rather than be a one year wonder team like some of the stacked teams who never had that franchise QB.

I realize there’s usually more than one reason a stacked team might not win multiple championships (like the points you correctly make about the Bears) but I think that a guy like Aikman on one of those teams might have prolonged the success.

Your Steelers example speaks to my point. They didn’t even win one championship between the Bradshaw and Ben years. However with a guy at QB as good as Aikman, I’m speculating they might have.

But like you say, I’m just having fun quibbling the point. I’m not really saying that Aikman should be regarded more highly than he generally is. Perhaps you’re right that he’s slightly overrated. But when you go through a QB drought like we want through for a long time, a guy of Aikman’s caliber, and proven ability to win consistently, does look kind of attractive.

I’d still rather have Ben or Bradshaw over Aikman. No dispute there.

Oh how quickly we forget...or maybe want to, but we did win 1 championship between them. Who can forget the infamous Kneel O'Dollar???

I don't remember watching to many Aikman games, but I do distinctly remember ONE. I was here in San Antonio completely surrounded by cowboys fans. I was the only non-cowboy fan, and I had a GREAT time. It was the playoff game they played against the Lions. Let's just say the beer tasted better for me that day than it did anyone else. LOL

[Butch]

For the Bears in the 1980s, their biggest problem at the QB position was that Jim McMahon was unable to stay healthy..He had like 21 straight wins from 1984 to 1987 I think but he was rarely healthy.

I do not know if the Bears would have won the super bowl in 1984 or 1986 with him as QB, but the QB situation at the end of the 1986 season and in the playoffs was a huge mess

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...8701030chi.htm

The game against the 49ers in 1984 was also awful

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...8501060sfo.htm

While McMahon was an issue I would still argue their biggest issue was they had 2 head coach's. The only team to carry off 2 coach's after a win. Ryan was a great defensive mind but a head case everywhere he went. Ditka didn't have what it took to get that team over the hump after Ryan left. The most divided team I know of to win a SB. They were fun to watch, but they had plenty of issues.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I never really followed the Dolphins closely so I ask the rest of you, why the hell was that the case? I mean, historically Marino had one of the best head coaches ever with a clearly brilliant football mind. You’d think they could have been the Brady/Billichick of their era. They were the team that straight up out coached an objectively better ‘85 Bears.

So why couldn’t they assemble talent? Was it the fault of the coach? The Dolphins organization? Or just oddly bad luck?

IMO, the Dolphins built that team on the arm of Marino and the lack of run game and good but not great defenses definitely hurt in December and January. Who would be the top 3 RB's that played for the Dolphins with Marino? I cant really name one.

Difficult to go on the road in the playoffs and difficult weather, then expect the passing game to do it all.

[HollywoodSteel]

For the Bears in the 1980s, their biggest problem at the QB position was that Jim McMahon was unable to stay healthy..He had like 21 straight wins from 1984 to 1987 I think but he was rarely healthy.

I do not know if the Bears would have won the super bowl in 1984 or 1986 with him as QB, but the QB situation at the end of the 1986 season and in the playoffs was a huge mess

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...8701030chi.htm

The game against the 49ers in 1984 was also awful

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...8501060sfo.htm

Yeah. When I talk about a team like the Bears of the mid 80s failing to win multiple titles due to the lack of a consistent franchise QB, I definitely also mean a consistently healthy QB.

Like you say, McMahon (when healthy) was one of those guys that was good enough to win with if you had a stacked team. But I’m not sure I’d count him as one of the actual stackers... if that makes sense.

That’s why I put a guy like Aikman above a McMahon in terms of value to an already good team. Aikman helps them be great and stay great... which historically seems really hard to do without a HOF level QB.

Although Butch’s points about the Bears coaching situation turning to shit is also an important factor in the team’s downfall.

I sometimes wonder if Buddy Ryan ever really had the personality to be just a defensive coordinator without causing some kind of discord in the organization. Did he ever really play nice with other coaches?

I mean contrast him with a guy like Dick LaBeau who also had the undivided loyalty of his defensive players, yet could also happily accept his role without ever stepping on the toes of the HC or dividing a locker room.

Can you imagine Buddy Ryan having to work opposite Todd Haley? He would have probably thrown a lot more than one punch, and made Gregg Williams look like Todd’s BFF.

Now THAT’S a Hard Knocks I’d pay to see.

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IMO, the Dolphins built that team on the arm of Marino and the lack of run game and good but not great defenses definitely hurt in December and January. Who would be the top 3 RB's that played for the Dolphins with Marino? I cant really name one.

Difficult to go on the road in the playoffs and difficult weather, then expect the passing game to do it all.

https://youtu.be/ArHNrCvwq4c

Or maybe it was the other one...

[Butch]

The teams that seemed to compete at the similar times the Aikman and Bradshaw lead teams are below as I can recall. I really think Miami was on the downward slide, by the time the 70's Steelers were peaking. I know some may talk the Oilers, but they were like the Adrian Petersen Vikings. Were they really going to win with Pastorini at QB, just like the Browns with Brian Sipe.

90's teams- 49ers, Cowboys, Bills, Giants, (maybe Redskins)

70's teams- Steelers, Cowboys, Raiders, Miami

IMO, you put Ken Stabler on the Steelers instead of Bradshaw and they still have 3 Super Bowl wins, with all those HOF players and Steeler Curtain. You put Phil Simms on those Cowboy teams instead of Aikman and they still win 3 SB.

yeah the Dolphins were about done at that time. We still had to play the Cowboys at the end and those were the 1st really Great super bowls. Maybe the '79 game was the closest to a blow out but even then it came down to recovering an onside kick to secure the game.

The Raiders were never easy and you always knew it would be a slugfest until the very end. Those games were just as heart throbbing as the super bowl and losing was a crushing blow.

I also have to agree that the oilers, browns and even colts back then were the next tier. never really able to get past the Steelers to get to the next level, but they gave us everything they had, even beat us a few times, but never when it counted. Is it me or did we always seemed to play the Raiders, Oilers and/or Colts back then on the way to the Super Bowl?

The Bills were completely outmatched in the SBs most games were over before they even started. I would argue we were the only real threat they ever faced in s SB. No way we should have lost the way we did.

Not real sure about the G-men back then, to my recollection they were the next tier but I could be wrong. I guess they never really impressed me one way or the other.

[polamalubeast]

Buddyy Ryan with Todd Haley would have been a must see TV!

I mean, some people think that the reason Haley was so bad as OC with the Browns is that Haley wanted Hue Jackson to be fired for to have the chance to be their head coach in mid season. But Haley also was fired at the same time that Jackson.

Also remember Buddy Ryan in 1993 with the Oilers and Kevin Gilbride




and this



- - - Updated - - -

yeah the Dolphins were about done at that time. We still had to play the Cowboys at the end and those were the 1st really Great super bowls. Maybe the '79 game was the closest to a blow out but even then it came down to recovering an onside kick to secure the game.

The Raiders were never easy and you always knew it would be a slugfest until the very end. Those games were just as heart throbbing as the super bowl and losing was a crushing blow.

I also have to agree that the oilers, browns and even colts back then were the next tier. never really able to get past the Steelers to get to the next level, but they gave us everything they had, even beat us a few times, but never when it counted. Is it me or did we always seemed to play the Raiders, Oilers and/or Colts back then on the way to the Super Bowl?

The Bills were completely outmatched in the SBs most games were over before they even started. I would argue we were the only real threat they ever faced in s SB. No way we should have lost the way we did.

Not real sure about the G-men back then, to my recollection they were the next tier but I could be wrong. I guess they never really impressed me one way or the other.

The Bills had 9 turnovers in the super bowl in 1992!...Also,yeah the Giants was no longer a SB contender after 1990 when Bill Parcells left the Giants

[Butch]

Yeah. When I talk about a team like the Bears of the mid 80s failing to win multiple titles due to the lack of a consistent franchise QB, I definitely also mean a consistently healthy QB.

Like you say, McMahon (when healthy) was one of those guys that was good enough to win with if you had a stacked team. But I’m not sure I’d count him as one of the actual stackers... if that makes sense.

That’s why I put a guy like Aikman above a McMahon in terms of value to an already good team. Aikman helps them be great and stay great... which historically seems really hard to do without a HOF level QB.

Although Butch’s points about the Bears coaching situation turning to shit is also an important factor in the team’s downfall.

I sometimes wonder if Buddy Ryan ever really had the personality to be just a defensive coordinator without causing some kind of discord in the organization. Did he ever really play nice with other coaches?

I mean contrast him with a guy like Dick LaBeau who also had the undivided loyalty of his defensive players, yet could also happily accept his role without ever stepping on the toes of the HC or dividing a locker room.

Can you imagine Buddy Ryan having to work opposite Todd Haley? He would have probably thrown a lot more than one punch, and made Gregg Williams look like Todd’s BFF.

Now THAT’S a Hard Knocks I’d pay to see.

- - - Updated - - -



https://youtu.be/ArHNrCvwq4c

Or maybe it was the other one...

I can answer that for you - No. He was a total jackass everywhere he went.

[SteelersNorth]

Rodgers defenses have been average at best, utter trash at worst for most of his career. The last 8 years, the defense has never been in the top 10 and placed higher than 15th once. And they've crumbled in the playoffs. The Packers defense surrendered an average of 36.3 points per game in all his playoff losses, compare that to the Pack offense which scored an average of 25.6 points per game in those playoff losses. The Packers defense almost single-handedly helped Colin Kaepernick get his payday a few years back. With Rodgers, the Packers once went 15-1 with the 32nd ranked defense in the league. Then there is the fact that Rodgers has been saddled with Mike McCarthy as head coach his entire career and is probably the only reason McCarthy lasted as long as he did. Over a 4:1 TD:INT ratio (338 TDs to only 80 INTs), (next closest comes in at slightly over a 3:1 TD:INT ratio), surpassed 300 TDs and moved into top 10 all time in TD passes in roughly 9 seasons as a starting QB. Also all-time leader in QB rating. You think he may be too high, but I think he is too low at 10

that's just disgusting reading that saying Rodgers is too low.
It's funny how every media person and 'smart' fans know that QB is the most important position in any sport; yet magically there seems to be one exception/excuse based list for one guy and one guy only, and it's 'Mr. Overrated' Aaron Rodgers
oh he has no defense (he's had one and choked in 2014 when HIS defense gifted him 5 turnovers and a 16-0 half time lead) that's on him no matter how you want to slice it.
oh he has no running game...pfftttt Ben went 12-4 with Mewelde Moore Carey Davis and a broken down willie parker
oh he has no receivers...yeah whatever...
stats are fantastic but don't cloud your judgement just because your fantasy football team does amazing.
in this current ERA (as each one is different) WINS and CHAMPIONSHIPS as in multiple are what count
you don't go 15-1 and lose your first playoff game
don't get too excited either on those FLUKE hail marys either because that's like saying Tiger Woods has perfected the hole in one...just not true
too high and wwwaaaaayyyyy too grossly overrated and that's just putting it mildly
they hype around Rogers is unjustified really and that's my biggest issue because he's good no argument but he's not THAT good

[polamalubeast]

that's just disgusting reading that saying Rodgers is too low.
It's funny how every media person and 'smart' fans know that QB is the most important position in any sport; yet magically there seems to be one exception/excuse based list for one guy and one guy only, and it's 'Mr. Overrated' Aaron Rodgers
oh he has no defense (he's had one and choked in 2014 when HIS defense gifted him 5 turnovers and a 16-0 half time lead) that's on him no matter how you want to slice it.
oh he has no running game...pfftttt Ben went 12-4 with Mewelde Moore Carey Davis and a broken down willie parker
oh he has no receivers...yeah whatever...
stats are fantastic but don't cloud your judgement just because your fantasy football team does amazing.
in this current ERA (as each one is different) WINS and CHAMPIONSHIPS as in multiple are what count
you don't go 15-1 and lose your first playoff game
don't get too excited either on those FLUKE hail marys either because that's like saying Tiger Woods has perfected the hole in one...just not true
too high and wwwaaaaayyyyy too grossly overrated and that's just putting it mildly
they hype around Rogers is unjustified really and that's my biggest issue because he's good no argument but he's not THAT good

Rodgers had not played well against the Seahawks in 2014, but Mike McCarthy was way too much conservative with the lead, it was ridiculous ... Just thinking when Todd Haley was at his worst.

Outside of that, the defense was garbage ... just in 2011, the packers were a one man team ... it was an amazing achievement to finish the season at 15-1, since his defense was last in yards given. ... The Packers had no running game

In 2012, it was worse because I think Rodgers was the leader for the rushings yards of the Packers! ... Of course in the playoffs Colin Kaepernick had his game of his life

2016, the defense of the packers were as bad against Atlanta that the defense of the steelers was in the same day against the Patriots ..... Why Dom Capers kept his job after this game was ridiculous.Same thing for Keith Butler, but This is an other story.

It is true that Rodgers has not been good in 2015 and 2018, but it takes a team effort to win a super bowl .... I mean Brady has already won games in the past in the playoffs even if he has not played at a high level in the entire game ... Just at the last super bowl against the Rams ... It's very hard for a QB, when you know you have no margin for error ... One of the big reasons why after 2010 many thought the Packers had a potential to be a dynasty were Rodgers, but also many thought their defense would be very good too, but their defense has been a big disaster since, since the packers defense was not once in the top 10 in PPG or yards per game since 2011 and in the playoffs, it was often a big laughing stock under Dom Capers.

[Born2Steel]

32 QBs every year over a 52 year span.....top25 is pretty damn good.

[silver & black]

Too many QB'S that were pretty damn good.... in the time they played. No mention of Unitas? The 25 greatest of all time is very subjective.

For the record... Bradshaw and Stabler have very similar stats, other than Terry has 3 more SB's to his credit. The Snake was a great clutch QB. I'm a huge fan of Bradshaw.... probably more than most Steelers fans. I'd take Terry and Kenny in a clutch situation any day!

[SteelersNorth]

Rodgers had not played well against the Seahawks in 2014, but Mike McCarthy was way too much conservative with the lead, it was ridiculous ... Just thinking when Todd Haley was at his worst.

Outside of that, the defense was garbage ... just in 2011, the packers were a one man team ... it was an amazing achievement to finish the season at 15-1, since his defense was last in yards given. ... The Packers had no running game

In 2012, it was worse because I think Rodgers was the leader for the rushings yards of the Packers! ... Of course in the playoffs Colin Kaepernick had his game of his life

2016, the defense of the packers were as bad against Atlanta that the defense of the steelers was in the same day against the Patriots ..... Why Dom Capers kept his job after this game was ridiculous.Same thing for Keith Butler, but This is an other story.

It is true that Rodgers has not been good in 2015 and 2018, but it takes a team effort to win a super bowl .... I mean Brady has already won games in the past in the playoffs even if he has not played at a high level in the entire game ... Just at the last super bowl against the Rams ... It's very hard for a QB, when you know you have no margin for error ... One of the big reasons why after 2010 many thought the Packers had a potential to be a dynasty were Rodgers, but also many thought their defense would be very good too, but their defense has been a big disaster since, since the packers defense was not once in the top 10 in PPG or yards per game since 2011 and in the playoffs, it was often a big laughing stock under Dom Capers.

sounds like a list of excuses if you ask me...

[tube517]

Too many QB'S that were pretty damn good.... in the time they played. No mention of Unitas? The 25 greatest of all time is very subjective.

For the record... Bradshaw and Stabler have very similar stats, other than Terry has 3 more SB's to his credit. The Snake was a great clutch QB. I'm a huge fan of Bradshaw.... probably more than most Steelers fans. I'd take Terry and Kenny in a clutch situation any day!

Stabler is the Raiders for me. Real 1970s football. Perfect guy to lead them. Also Biletnikoff defined "posession" receiver. Branch/Biletnikoff/Casper are very underrated as far as WR/WR/TE trios in NFL history.

[polamalubeast]

At least,the ranking of Harrison is not bad(outside to put Russell Wilson in the top 25,who is way too early)like this rankings of the current QB!

Roethlisberger 19th?
Mariota 7th
and so many other thing!

[teegre]

At least,the ranking of Harrison is not bad(outside to put Russell Wilson in the top 25,who is way too early)like this rankings of the current QB!

Roethlisberger 19th?
Mariota 7th
and so many other thing!

Someone on Twitter referenced that list, and asked for “your best GIF” as a response.

It was actually “laugh out loud” funny.