Originally Posted by fansince'76
Agreed.
LC Greenwood had something to do w/that.
Staubach faced the Steelers twice in the Super Bowl as well as some regular season games, one of which LC pretty much ended his career in the 79 reg season game.
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Agreed.
LC Greenwood had something to do w/that.
Staubach faced the Steelers twice in the Super Bowl as well as some regular season games, one of which LC pretty much ended his career in the 79 reg season game.
I like this list but would definitely have to put Dan Fouts on it and up near the top. The guy was always playing through some sort of injury.
nah he isnt the most over rated .....
see Joe Namath for that distinction .....
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
Lefty showed some true grit occasionally
https://youtu.be/U-jzYMSiNHQ
No one thinks that Namath is one of the best QB ever and many think he's in the HOF because of one game!
I agree -
"Namath led the underdog NY Jets to a Super Bowl victory upset against the Baltimore Colts in 1969, but in all honesty, the defense won that game for the Jets. The score was 16-7 and Namath didn’t have a single passing touchdown. He has a career win-loss record of 62-63, led the league in interceptions on four occasions, and completed just 50.1% of his passes. Despite having just a 65.5 QB rating and throwing 220 interceptions to his 173 touchdowns."
https://thegruelingtruth.com/footbal...s-nfl-history/
I was watching some youtube of Marino awhile ago. I'd forgotten just how quick his release was. Freakish. One second the ball is in his hand, the next second it's 30 yards downfield.
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Fixed.
Okay. Second most...lol.
Ugh... If only.Fixed.
"Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead." - Butch
The quickest ever.
There was this video highlight of someone sacking Marino, getting up, celebrating... only to realize that Dan had actually gotten rid of the ball right before being hit.
The defender looked at Marino, in awe, and asked, “I had you!! How the eff did you get that throw off???”
Could you have imagined the Steelers with Marino...ugh...
Even if it was for one game: Super Bowl XXX.
Because, Dan would NOT have taken Jerrah’s pay-off to throw that game (like a certain “unnamed QB obviously did).
Really though. We win Super Bowls in 1984, 1995, & 1997, and possibly 1994 (although, the Niners were insane that season).
I was thinking the same exact thing and was also thinking that ‘94 Super Bowl matchup would’ve been epic.
LOL @ Peyton Manning being #3.
The guy was a proverbial choke artist and only won two Superbowls because of a rain storm and a great defense. If I needed points in a Superbowl I would take Bradshaw over choke artist Manning every time.
Then you put Drew Brees in the top ten over Bradshaw? Really? Brees has ONE Superbowl and has had loaded teams like Manning but yet failed. Same can be said for Aaron Rodgers.
How Bradshaw with 4 rings can't be in the top 5/10 is laughable.
Honesty, I am a big fan of Bradshaw, but we have to remember there were 52 other guys on those teams that won Super Bowls and coaching staffs that organized the gamplans. TB was one of the best deep passers in NFL history and had 2 great Super Bowl performances, but all those great defenses definitely helped out.
I have no problem where Bradshaw is ranked, but also think Manning is ranked too high. At the end of the day its all peoples opinions, so really not that important of a list, but its tough to try and minimize Manning's SB win in Denver because of that great defense....but credit Bradshaw for 4 rings and not mention those Steeler defenses.
Since when was Brees in a loaded team?
I mean, his defense was in the bottom 3 in the league 4 times in 5 years and in the playoffs his defense was often unable to make a huge stop when it was the time, like in 2011 against the 49ers and 2017 against the Vikings
Same thing for Aaron Rodgers ..... The defense of Dom Capers in Green Bay was a laughing stock for so many years ... 36 points per game that this defense gave up in average in each of the defeats with Rodgers and they were so bad in the clutch
If you think Bradshaw was better, that's fine, but Brees and Rodgers were not in a loaded teams.
Don’t forget how much of a choke artist Marino was...
This is the whole you can't compare different era's. Just as Bradshaw had a stacked team (all teams that competed back then did), he stood up to much tougher defense's, took his lumps and most of the time threw the game winner just before getting knocked out. He wasn't afraid to take a hit.
IMHO the greatest was and is Dan Marino. He is the exception to the whole gotta win a SB to make the hall of fame, and for good reason. I truly believe if he had been drafted by the Steelers when he came in he would be hands down the Greatest QB of all time and yes better than Montana but in fact we will never know.
IMO, the whole "gotta win the SB to make the HOF " argument is irrelevant. Some great QB's ended up with average teams/organizations and average talent surrounding them and never won, while some average QB's had great teams, coaches, talent surrounding them and did win Super Bowls.
I agree, Marino was definitely one of the greatest. I cant help but think that if Scott Norwood makes that FG, does Jim Kelly get ranked higher because he has a ring? None of his play changed, just a kicker puts the ball 4 yards to the left and fans suddenly talk of Kelly better than they do now.
You definitely have to factor in SB wins. Yes shitty QB's like Difer won them but winning 4 is not lucky. My biggest problem with Marino was when he did have good teams they didn't win, but he's still top 10 to me.
Yes if the Steelers drafted him then I can easily see us having another 3-6 rings.
Good question and going to 4 in-a-row sure does help his cause, and by the same token if Elway never wins one is he talked about any less? I am very biased against him so I don't think my opinion counts. Never liked the guy after he turned his back on the Colts when they drafted him.
Hmmm I wonder where everyone would put Troy Aikman? This is a guy who had a VERY talented team (thanks to getting 13 players for the price of 1). A ton of talent like no other team at that time. About the only real team that competed with them was the 9'ers. Most games they played were decided by the 4th quarter and then they would just let Smith run out the clock. How great do you have to be to win when the odds are so overwhelmingly in your favor? They also lost in the playoffs once to a much inferior Lions team, so shouldn't that count against him? I'll be honest I don't give that team a whole lot of credit when it comes to Greatest players of all time. They were just a stacked team.
Before anyone throws my comments about Bradshaw playing on a stacked team back at me, the difference with Bradshaw is that there were a number of other teams with just about as much talent competing. Where was that same level of competition in the 90's?
Marino has almost never been in a contender ...
Very few opportunities for him ... In 1984, the Dolphins were a one-man team or almost ... In the super bowl against the 15-1 49ers, it was not a fair fight between him and Montana .. .25 rushing yards only for Miami vs over 200 rushing yards for the 49ers...In fact very often in the career of Marino, his teams were so bad to run the football and to stop the run, especially in the playoffs .... How many times the opponents had over 200 rushing yards against the Dolphins and that Miami was unable to run the football to save their live? ... it happens too often!
We must not judge a QB only on super bowl, it's not always fair ... For Bradshaw, I give credit to be huge in the super bowl against the cowboys in 1978 and against the rams in 1979 ... He was huge ... But QB as Aikman, he was at the right place at the right time .... Young and Brett Favre were 2 QB much better than Aikman in the 1990s.
The teams that seemed to compete at the similar times the Aikman and Bradshaw lead teams are below as I can recall. I really think Miami was on the downward slide, by the time the 70's Steelers were peaking. I know some may talk the Oilers, but they were like the Adrian Petersen Vikings. Were they really going to win with Pastorini at QB, just like the Browns with Brian Sipe.
90's teams- 49ers, Cowboys, Bills, Giants, (maybe Redskins)
70's teams- Steelers, Cowboys, Raiders, Miami
IMO, you put Ken Stabler on the Steelers instead of Bradshaw and they still have 3 Super Bowl wins, with all those HOF players and Steeler Curtain. You put Phil Simms on those Cowboy teams instead of Aikman and they still win 3 SB.
These conversations are always interesting but frustrating because football has SO many nuances and moving parts that it’s really difficult at times to make objectively “correct” arguments.
I notice a lot of people put strikes against QBs with stacked teams, and that’s fine when it comes to guys like Dilfer who were basically lucky to be along for the ride.
But the problem with applying that to Aikman is that he being on that team was PART of the stacking. He wasn’t just a game manager who tried not to turn it over. He was part of the reason the team had those big 4th quarter leads.
You could argue that his stacked teams kept him from having bigger numbers. Yes, they fed the ball to Emmit in the 4th quarter a lot. Because they could. Perhaps if Dallas had a worse defense, or faced better in season competition, Aikman would have had a bunch of 4th quarter comebacks with gaudy numbers.
Again, it isn’t easy to objectively place Aikman in his perfect spot on the list, but he was far from a free rider. Generally if a team gets multiple championships, the quarterback HAS to be pretty damn good. Even the ‘85 Bears with arguably the best defense ever, and a top five RB of all time couldn’t win more than one championship. Now imagine that same Bears team with Aikman (if he played in that era). Do they still only get to the Super Bowl once?
I never really followed the Dolphins closely so I ask the rest of you, why the hell was that the case? I mean, historically Marino had one of the best head coaches ever with a clearly brilliant football mind. You’d think they could have been the Brady/Billichick of their era. They were the team that straight up out coached an objectively better ‘85 Bears.
So why couldn’t they assemble talent? Was it the fault of the coach? The Dolphins organization? Or just oddly bad luck?
I don't think it was so much they were out-coached as much as it was that Marino's quick release was the kryptonite for da' Bears. Singletarry could blitz with the best of them but was a liability in coverage. The key to da' Bears defense was how quickly they could get to the QB and rattle him early and often. By the end of the game most QB's were happy to get off the field with everything still intact. They couldn't do that with Dan, he was just a beat quicker.
Yep as has been said by those before us this is all opinions of someone else's opinion. I think most commenting on here are simply having fun with the topic. I know I am.
I don't think you took what I said the way I meant it. I am not implying that Troy was a game manager ie...Dilfer (who is the most extreme example of managers). I am simply saying I don't think he had to face as much adversity as most. The only team I remember even giving them any fight at all was the 9'ers. Yes they faced the bills 2ce in the SB but the Bills had no chance in those games so still not what I would call a real competition for them. IMHO it's hard for me to put him that high up on the list when that team was so much better than all the teams they faced.
As for da' Bears of '85 they lost a HUGE piece of their team when Ryan left and were never the same. That team was so divided they carried off 2 coach's after they won the SB, so not that surprising they never repeated. But all that being said I get your point and yes you need a QB more than you need any other position in the NFL if you want to repeat as champs. The Steelers themselves have had many Great defense's that were missing a QB.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that I thought you were calling Aikman Dilfer-like. I was just using Dilfer as an extreme example of someone who benefited from a stacked team while not being part of the actual stacking... if that makes sense. I’m just saying that Aikman, by contrast was part of the reason the Cowboys won multiple championships rather than be a one year wonder team like some of the stacked teams who never had that franchise QB.
I realize there’s usually more than one reason a stacked team might not win multiple championships (like the points you correctly make about the Bears) but I think that a guy like Aikman on one of those teams might have prolonged the success.
Your Steelers example speaks to my point. They didn’t even win one championship between the Bradshaw and Ben years. However with a guy at QB as good as Aikman, I’m speculating they might have.
But like you say, I’m just having fun quibbling the point. I’m not really saying that Aikman should be regarded more highly than he generally is. Perhaps you’re right that he’s slightly overrated. But when you go through a QB drought like we want through for a long time, a guy of Aikman’s caliber, and proven ability to win consistently, does look kind of attractive.
I’d still rather have Ben or Bradshaw over Aikman. No dispute there.
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