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Thread: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Or on the other hand perhaps we recognize Carr as just another self-aggrandizing media jackwad and don't care what he has to say. That's a possibility too.
    In fact... That seems much more likely to me.
    Maybe that is the other 50% of Steeler fans, as I mentioned.

    I mean, there is a 2 page thread on Mike Florio's opinion of the Steelers. Primarily because its an optimistic opinion of how the Steelers season will go. Imagine if it wasn't an optimistic view by Florio on the Steelers season? How many posts would there be on how Florio got something wrong in reporting, as opposed to the actual topic of his opinion?

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Maybe that is the other 50% of Steeler fans, as I mentioned.

    I mean, there is a 2 page thread on Mike Florio's opinion of the Steelers. Primarily because its an optimistic opinion of how the Steelers season will go. Imagine if it wasn't an optimistic view by Florio on the Steelers season? How many posts would there be on how Florio got something wrong in reporting, as opposed to the actual topic of his opinion?
    If you are defending Carr, why not talk about and support his viewpoint, instead of going after other posters for theirs’. I haven’t read anything from you mentioning the content of the article. I personally have little respect for Carr and therefore don’t care what he writes, positive or negative. Frankly I don’t really understand what a “Routine Play” is.
    Ben is Ben and has played pretty much the same style his entire career, maybe gets rid of the ball sooner than he used to. I will live and die by his style of play until he is no longer a Steeler.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Maybe that is the other 50% of Steeler fans, as I mentioned.

    I mean, there is a 2 page thread on Mike Florio's opinion of the Steelers. Primarily because its an optimistic opinion of how the Steelers season will go. Imagine if it wasn't an optimistic view by Florio on the Steelers season? How many posts would there be on how Florio got something wrong in reporting, as opposed to the actual topic of his opinion?
    I went over to that thread to see what you're talking about. All I saw was a few attacks on Florio, like 1 comment on the actual article (also couched in an attack on Florio), and 2 pages of discussion about whether or not Antonio Brown is a hard worker. I see nothing to support the notion that the Florio thread went to 2 pages because his article was "optimistic".
    I should also point out that this thread is on it's second page as well.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    I dont see anywhere in this thread where I actually defended Carr as Hawkman suggests. I merely pointed out the rather predictable attacks that would be hurled at Carr, without anybody actually caring to read the substance of the SteelersDepot article, or Carr's comments.

    As for Ben improving on making routine plays. I think any objective fan that watched the season, saw several instances of Ben not completing passes to open receivers and yes, he definately can improve upon that. According to this article from after the KC game, Ben overthrew open WR's approx 10% of attempts that game. I dont attack Jacob Klingler for writing those stats and observations and they seem congruent with what Carr seems to suggest.

    "...Roethlisberger was significantly less accurate than Patrick Mahomes. On at least 6 occasions, Roethlisberger overthrew open receivers. That's once per 10 throws and one more overthrow of an open receiver than Mahomes had incompletions the entire game." https://www.pennlive.com/steelers/2018/09/steelers_chiefs_grades.html

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    The fact that he stated that his brother Derek is better than Ben, lost any credibility for me.
    better then Ben was not even the biggest joke .it was that his brother was like top 7 , thats just
    we must never forget tell everyone you know New England cheated and might be back at it Edit 1-21-15 there back Edit #2__12-8-19 here we go again Edit #3__ 5-25-23 it never ends

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by T&B fan View Post
    better then Ben was not even the biggest joke .it was that his brother was like top 7 , thats just
    his brother is undoubtedly better than Joe Montana

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by T&B fan View Post
    better then Ben was not even the biggest joke .it was that his brother was like top 7 , thats just
    I remember, he was 4!

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    his brother is undoubtedly better than Joe Montana


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    I remember, he was 4!
    again...

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I find it amusing that by looking at the title of the thread, the majority of the posts would not be about the actual article from SteelersDepot
    As amusing as the fact that 6 of your 7 posts in this thread have nothing to do with the article either???

    Note: That last “on topic” post only came about after you had been called out repeatedly.

    QUESTION:
    Which “50%” does that make you?

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    I mean is Carr really that wrong? The basic read the defense make the correct throw and have a successful play...isn’t that what everyone would like to see? Ben has mastered the “back-yard game”...he could use some work on the routine simple plays...no? People blame AB for Ben forcing the ball to him...so if AB is gone and Ben “doesn’t have to” force the balm to AB...would we all not want Ben to now make the routine play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Ben had a 67% completion percentage last year

    I know that it does not say everything and that yes sometimes he misses some easy throw, but you can not miss too many easy pass to be at 67%.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    I mean is Carr really that wrong? The basic read the defense make the correct throw and have a successful play...isn’t that what everyone would like to see? Ben has mastered the “back-yard game”...he could use some work on the routine simple plays...no? People blame AB for Ben forcing the ball to him...so if AB is gone and Ben “doesn’t have to” force the balm to AB...would we all not want Ben to now make the routine play?
    Maybe. This topic was broached last season, when Ben would routinely “go for broke” on easily-convertible downs-&-distances... because, he often convert those for long gains.

    3rd-&-1 Everyone is screaming for Ben to dump off. Ben throws a 20 yard completion... and everyone cheers.

    3rd-&-1 Repeat.

    3rd-&-1 Repeat.

    3rd-&-1
    Everyone is screaming for Ben to dump off. Ben throws an incompletion 20 yards down field... and everyone suddenly forgets what Ben did on the previous three third-downs.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I dont see anywhere in this thread where I actually defended Carr as Hawkman suggests. I merely pointed out the rather predictable attacks that would be hurled at Carr, without anybody actually caring to read the substance of the SteelersDepot article, or Carr's comments.

    As for Ben improving on making routine plays. I think any objective fan that watched the season, saw several instances of Ben not completing passes to open receivers and yes, he definately can improve upon that. According to this article from after the KC game, Ben overthrew open WR's approx 10% of attempts that game. I dont attack Jacob Klingler for writing those stats and observations and they seem congruent with what Carr seems to suggest.

    "...Roethlisberger was significantly less accurate than Patrick Mahomes. On at least 6 occasions, Roethlisberger overthrew open receivers. That's once per 10 throws and one more overthrow of an open receiver than Mahomes had incompletions the entire game." https://www.pennlive.com/steelers/2018/09/steelers_chiefs_grades.html
    READ MY POST....If you are......... I really have no idea why you felt the need to go after everyone just because they don’t like or agree with Carr.......and I would say I don’t care.....but maybe I do. Why do you care?

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    I mean is Carr really that wrong? The basic read the defense make the correct throw and have a successful play...isn’t that what everyone would like to see? Ben has mastered the “back-yard game”...he could use some work on the routine simple plays...no? People blame AB for Ben forcing the ball to him...so if AB is gone and Ben “doesn’t have to” force the balm to AB...would we all not want Ben to now make the routine play?
    Yes he is that wrong. Ben makes plenty of those "routine" plays but people simply remember the ones that are not routine. The times where he scrambles around, maybe holds the ball a little to long, the pump fakes and all that, because that is what Ben is good at. Sometimes when Ben does that it makes for a spectacular play and sometimes it makes for a horrible play, but if you ask me I would much rather have Ben play his style of football than to simply make the safe play every time we have the ball. I would much rather live and die with Ben's play making ability than to have the ho-hum play that Carr is suggesting. It would be like asking Bell to simply duck his head and run rather than his patient style of running.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    OK, nice thread for posters to just criticize David Carr and avoid the actual topic. Just classic.
    David Carr the QB and the sports analyst suck, so does his opinion on this subject.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Yes he is that wrong. Ben makes plenty of those "routine" plays but people simply remember the ones that are not routine. The times where he scrambles around, maybe holds the ball a little to long, the pump fakes and all that, because that is what Ben is good at. Sometimes when Ben does that it makes for a spectacular play and sometimes it makes for a horrible play, but if you ask me I would much rather have Ben play his style of football than to simply make the safe play every time we have the ball. I would much rather live and die with Ben's play making ability than to have the ho-hum play that Carr is suggesting. It would be like asking Bell to simply duck his head and run rather than his patient style of running.
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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Live by the lightsaber, die by the lightsaber.

    **(but, mostly live)
    Are you making fun of me?

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    READ MY POST....If you are......... I really have no idea why you felt the need to go after everyone just because they don’t like or agree with Carr.......and I would say I don’t care.....but maybe I do. Why do you care?
    It has nothing to do with Carr IMO. Anybody who doesn't write something glowing about the Steelers is hated on. It could be Peter King, Ed Bouchette, Mike Florio, Gerry Dulac, etc. If they say something great, they are reputable, but if they say something less than complimentary, they are hacks.

    I would like to see Ben do better at making the routine plays, but that would be admitting that he doesn't routinely make the easy play....and that is sadly blasphemous to a certain segment of the fanbase.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    It has nothing to do with Carr IMO.
    not true, this thread is about what David Carr said about Ben.

    and David Carr has lost a lot of his credibility with previous comments about his own brother Derek being the 4th best QB in the NFL and Joe Montana not being a top-10 all time QB.

    so yes, I choose to take with a serious grain of salt whatever comments David Carr now makes and imo rightfully so...

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    It has nothing to do with Carr IMO. Anybody who doesn't write something glowing about the Steelers is hated on. It could be Peter King, Ed Bouchette, Mike Florio, Gerry Dulac, etc. If they say something great, they are reputable, but if they say something less than complimentary, they are hacks.

    I would like to see Ben do better at making the routine plays, but that would be admitting that he doesn't routinely make the easy play....and that is sadly blasphemous to a certain segment of the fanbase.
    I can't think of to many sports analysts that I do agree with on many things not just Steelers stuff. Carr is nothing but a shock jock just as many are these days. Others have a way of reporting the news without even verifying the source, or the ones who claim un-named sources. These types don't care about the facts they simply want a story that generates clicks. It has nothing to do what-so-ever with what they say about Ben it has everything to do with their style of reporting their so called facts. But don't let that stop you go ahead and eat up everything these "Hacks" sell you as long as it goes with your beliefs.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    It has nothing to do with Carr IMO. Anybody who doesn't write something glowing about the Steelers is hated on. It could be Peter King, Ed Bouchette, Mike Florio, Gerry Dulac, etc. If they say something great, they are reputable, but if they say something less than complimentary, they are hacks.

    Again, why do you care? And why do you think that you're so much more enlightened about football? Just because you coach some low level football doesn't make you the second coming of Chuck Noll, so stop acting like it.


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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    That is a funny little hill to die on.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Yes he is that wrong. Ben makes plenty of those "routine" plays but people simply remember the ones that are not routine. The times where he scrambles around, maybe holds the ball a little to long, the pump fakes and all that, because that is what Ben is good at. Sometimes when Ben does that it makes for a spectacular play and sometimes it makes for a horrible play, but if you ask me I would much rather have Ben play his style of football than to simply make the safe play every time we have the ball. I would much rather live and die with Ben's play making ability than to have the ho-hum play that Carr is suggesting. It would be like asking Bell to simply duck his head and run rather than his patient style of running.
    Fair enough and I would agree with that, however, it’s not really an either/or situation. If Ben plays “Ben Ball” and improves the routine/other part of his game, he’s an all,around better QB...no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Fair enough and I would agree with that, however, it’s not really an either/or situation. If Ben plays “Ben Ball” and improves the routine/other part of his game, he’s an all,around better QB...no?
    Same could be said of any player who improves at any facet of their game would make them a better all around player. I simply don't have a problem with the way Ben handles routine plays. David Carr is simply trying to sell you some snake oil in the hope that he can make a quick buck, and trust me there will be plenty who will buy what he is selling. Ben has 3 - 500 yard passing games, I would bet my sweet bippy there were a lot of "Routine" plays that lead to those results. If Ben wasn't any good at making routine plays he would be David Carr.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Same could be said of any player who improves at any facet of their game would make them a better all around player. I simply don't have a problem with the way Ben handles routine plays. David Carr is simply trying to sell you some snake oil in the hope that he can make a quick buck, and trust me there will be plenty who will buy what he is selling. Ben has 3 - 500 yard passing games, I would bet my sweet bippy there were a lot of "Routine" plays that lead to those results. If Ben wasn't any good at making routine plays he would be David Carr.
    Mic drop.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    If Ben wasn't any good at making routine plays he would be David Carr.
    Ben would still be better...

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by 43Hitman View Post
    Again, why do you care? And why do you think that you're so much more enlightened about football? Just because you coach some low level football doesn't make you the second coming of Chuck Noll, so stop acting like it.
    Did I say anything about being more enlightened about football? I don't recall that at all in this post.

    Just another example that if somebody doesn't agree with a point of view, its easier to attack the person rather than discuss the point of view. Very similar to the reaction to what David Carr apparently said. Thanks, I appreciate the input.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    I don't think anyone is trying to destroy Ben Roethlisberger here. My criticisms are about David Carr and some of the batshit crazy or irresponsible stuff he says to draw attention to himself.

    Ben led the NFL in interceptions last year. Clearly, there are some things he needs to do a little better. I love Big Ben as a player. I have always been a defender of him and a huge fan, but that doesn't mean he should be above any criticism. I think that's all that Gonzo is trying to say.

    I just don't think that David Carr deserves to have a voice in that criticism and that he shouldn't be taken seriously due to numerous idiotic takes.

    It is the sarcastic derogatory pot shots people take at Ben all the time that piss me off. People here will literally criticize anything and everything he says. They will find ways to bitch about him no matter what. Instead of looking at others and claiming worship, they should look at what they are actually writing about a HOF quarterback and step back to evaluate how ridiculous they look and sound at times.

    Is he perfect? Of course not. He deserves to be evaluated and criticized. He just shouldn't be persecuted based on a personal dislike.

    I also don't think that the people at this message board that consistently rag on Ben and criticize him all the time have a clue of how great he has been or how great he still is when you consider what he has been able to do on his own and create on the field.


    Last edited by pczach; 06-23-2019 at 09:34 AM.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    David Carr - "Joe Montana is NOT a top 10 QB of the SuperBowl era."

    Why? I don't care why. That's a dumbass opinion and statement to make. He even tries to back it up with reasons he thinks that. Why he thinks that is irrelevant.

    David Carr - "Ben Roethlisberger needs to be better at routine plays."

    Why? I don't care why. His opinion on BigBen is irrelevant. Carr has already discredited himself with his opinion of QBs. Not giving this opinion even a glance now.

    But the argument in this thread is entertaining.

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    Re: David Carr Wants To See Big Ben Do Better Making The Routine Plays In 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    I don't think anyone is trying to destroy Ben Roethlisberger here. My criticisms are about David Carr and some of the batshit crazy or irresponsible stuff he says to draw attention to himself.

    Ben led the NFL in interceptions last year. Clearly, there are some things he needs to do a little better. I love Big Ben as a player. I have always been a defender of him and a huge fan, but that doesn't mean he should be above any criticism. I think that's all that Gonzo is trying to say.

    I just don't think that David Carr deserves to have a voice in that criticism and that he shouldn't be taken seriously due to numerous idiotic takes.

    It is the sarcastic derogatory pot shots people take at him all the time that piss me off. People here will literally criticize anything and everything he says. They will find ways to bitch about him no matter what. Instead of looking at others and claiming worship, they should look at what they are actually writing about a HOF quarterback and step back to evaluate how ridiculous they look and sound at times.

    Is he perfect? Of course not. He deserves to be evaluated and criticized. He just shouldn't be persecuted based on a personal dislike.

    I also don't think that the people at this message board that consistently rag on Ben and criticize him all the time have a clue of how great he has been or how great he still is when you consider what he has been able to do on his own and create on the field.


    I agree that any player can do better. While he lead the league in Int's that is only a part of the picture. He also lead in Yards, Attempts, was 5th best in TD's, 3rd best QBR. Not to shabby for a guy who is not able to make the routine play.

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