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Thread: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    Very few blowout wins any year. Take a look back. Particularly years when we’re built on defense. We just don’t blowout other teams very often.
    I know, but it's not always easy when you have no room for error in the fourth quarter.And yes in 2008 the steelers had a lot of close game and close win, but for the most part it was against very good teams, especially in the second half of the season.If we just look at the points differential, it was still better in 2008 and 2010 than it was in 2017.

    As another said, a 13-3 team finished without a problem with a points differential over 100.It was not the case for the steelers in 2017.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    So what no one wants to admit is that despite all the players we see as super awesome, every metric pegs the Steelers as a 9-10 win team.

    Until they generate about a dozen more turnovers on defense, have a few less on offense, and get a functional kicking game that's all they are going to be.

    The defense can bleed yards all day and even allow points but they must generate turnovers and about 4 punts a game. The offense needs to score around 28 per week. And have an effective 4 minute offense.

    Do all that and you can find those extra 2-3 wins to be a SB contender.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    So what no one wants to admit is that despite all the players we see as super awesome, every metric pegs the Steelers as a 9-10 win team.

    Until they generate about a dozen more turnovers on defense, have a few less on offense, and get a functional kicking game that's all they are going to be.

    The defense can bleed yards all day and even allow points but they must generate turnovers and about 4 punts a game. The offense needs to score around 28 per week. And have an effective 4 minute offense.

    Do all that and you can find those extra 2-3 wins to be a SB contender.
    If we look in the yards, the steelers are easily a super bowl contender .... But they have never been in the top for the turnovers differencial or for the field position for a very long time, which is the problem ....

    It's not the talent the problem...I mean, a team normally does not finish at 9-6-1 when you have a differential of -11 in the turnovers .... Normally it's 4-5 wins max.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    The difference was the dropped ints, several questionable calls that went the wrong way, and several missed kicks and a handful of critical fumbles.. Seriously you could easily make the case the only two 'clean losses' last season were the Chiefs game and the first game against the Ravens. In the other 13 games (subtracting the Jags win) the Steelers straight up outplayed their opponent or played them to equal terms outside the outlier plays that have been noted time and time again. In a normal year of the 7 games the Steelers failed to win at least 3 or 4 would have gone their way. Of the games they won the Jacksonville game stands out as the one they lucked into the win and didn't play well enough to expect to win. So to me they should have been a minimum +2 on wins based on the usual norms. An 11-5 season gets them a first round bye. \

    Conversely you could make the same argument about the 17 season. They could have easily gone anywhere from 10-6 to 14-2 dependent on random luck.

    End of the day it was probably the best thing that could happen missing out last season. The way things broke down gave them the chance to get Devin Bush, the one position that was most lacking on this team. Also the personal breakdown of AB will give them the locker room cleansing that will hopefully result in a more focused team. One that puts team before self for a change. Last thing the luckiest break the Steelers have gotten over the past couple seasons was when Leveon Bell turned his dumb nose away from the ridiculous contract's they offered him the past two summers. He in a sense saved them from themselves. Yes he's a top tier back, and a valuable receiver. But you look around the league at the teams that have had the most success they past half dozen years or so and you see running back by committee with a minimal cap investment in the position. The 3 primary backs the Steelers will put on the field this season (Conners, Samuels, and Snell) will outpace Bell's production with the Jets at 1/5 the price.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    The difference is Boz, 2017 he made those game winning kicks, 2018 he did not. He makes those kicks like 2017 and we have a first round bye.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    The difference was the dropped ints, several questionable calls that went the wrong way, and several missed kicks and a handful of critical fumbles.. Seriously you could easily make the case the only two 'clean losses' last season were the Chiefs game and the first game against the Ravens. In the other 13 games (subtracting the Jags win) the Steelers straight up outplayed their opponent or played them to equal terms outside the outlier plays that have been noted time and time again. In a normal year of the 7 games the Steelers failed to win at least 3 or 4 would have gone their way. Of the games they won the Jacksonville game stands out as the one they lucked into the win and didn't play well enough to expect to win. So to me they should have been a minimum +2 on wins based on the usual norms. An 11-5 season gets them a first round bye. \

    Conversely you could make the same argument about the 17 season. They could have easily gone anywhere from 10-6 to 14-2 dependent on random luck.

    End of the day it was probably the best thing that could happen missing out last season. The way things broke down gave them the chance to get Devin Bush, the one position that was most lacking on this team. Also the personal breakdown of AB will give them the locker room cleansing that will hopefully result in a more focused team. One that puts team before self for a change. Last thing the luckiest break the Steelers have gotten over the past couple seasons was when Leveon Bell turned his dumb nose away from the ridiculous contract's they offered him the past two summers. He in a sense saved them from themselves. Yes he's a top tier back, and a valuable receiver. But you look around the league at the teams that have had the most success they past half dozen years or so and you see running back by committee with a minimal cap investment in the position. The 3 primary backs the Steelers will put on the field this season (Conners, Samuels, and Snell) will outpace Bell's production with the Jets at 1/5 the price.
    Many good points, especially on Bell, that the steelers were lucky and that it is a good thing that the steelers miss the playoffs since the steelers would have never won the super bowl with a locker room way too loose and it was time for a change.

    Also, very often the steelers seem to dominate a game (especially for the yards) but it was not the case for the scoreboard because often our field position was awful and the turnovers have rarely been in favor of the steelers ... it needs to change.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    I think most of us knew that if somethings break the right way they win 2-3 more games last season...

    Ie) Turnovers, bad calls, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Ok. So spread across several threads, I have seen the following (paraphrasing so I could be getting it wrong):

    1. Winning regular season games is meaningless and pointless.
    2. Winning regular season games just allows a badly coached team to fail in the playoffs.
    3. No point in making the playoffs because the locker room has been too toxic for several seasons to win anything meaningful.
    4. Anything short of a serious SB run that ends in a victory is a failed season and should lead to consequences for players and coaches.

    This causes me to wonder two things:

    1. Why do some of you even watch prior to the AFC Championship game? Everything before that is just pointless.
    2. Why even try to win games? The Steelers should just do "the Process (Sam Hinkie died for our Sins!)" for a few seasons and restock the roster with enough cheap talent to win a few SBs.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    That's when the team underachieve,this is the most frustrating thing!

    It's not so like the steelers had often lost against the Pats in the playoffs or in the AFC title game in this decade It's not also like the steelers had been dominant in the killer B's era.

    Only one season between 2014 to 2018, the steelers have made the playoffs easily ... One playoffs bye and they almost missed the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 ..... It was so frustrating that I am happy that this era is over.... This team may have had more talent than the steelers in the 2000s (2004 to 2010), but the performance on the field was much better in the 2000s

    For the process ... No, I would only agree to that if the team was mediocre (like a team as the Buffalo Bills,Miami Dolphins for several years, or yes the Philadelphia 76ers in the NBA before their rebuilding in 2013).

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Underachieving is the problem. There’s probably much less expectation going into this season than any of the last 3...and this roster may turn out to be better than any of the last three.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Or blown defensive coverages.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    I know, but it's not always easy when you have no room for error in the fourth quarter.And yes in 2008 the steelers had a lot of close game and close win, but for the most part it was against very good teams, especially in the second half of the season.If we just look at the points differential, it was still better in 2008 and 2010 than it was in 2017.

    As another said, a 13-3 team finished without a problem with a points differential over 100.It was not the case for the steelers in 2017.
    2008 and 2010 steelers both had better point differential, more double digit wins, and fewer 1 possession wins against teams that missed the playoffs than 2017. Also the 2008 and 2010 steelers did not lose to a team that missed the playoffs, 2017 steelers lost to a 5-11 team.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    People forget how close the 2018 team was to a losing season as well. First of all, they still had a winning record in one possession games, despite missing the playoffs. Then there is the fact that the 2018 Steelers won 4 close games against teams that not only missed the playoffs but finished with double digit losses. One less Fitzception INT away from losing to the 5-11 Bucs. One less 1 in 100 comeback and they lose to a 5-11 circus show in Jacksonville. They were also dangerously close to losing twice to a 6-10 Bengals team. AB bailed them out the first time with an amazing run in the final seconds out of field goal range and then the last week of the season, at home, season on the line, with basically half the Bengals starting line up injured, they fall behind by 10 and are basically Matt McCrane of all people bail them out.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Last season, the Taperiots won the Super Bowl. But, they also lost to...

    ...a 5-11 team
    ...a 6-10 team
    ...a 7-9 team
    ...a 9-6-1 team
    ...a 9-7 team

    None of those five teams made the playoffs.

    QUESTION:
    I’m not sure if that means that the Taperiots “actually” sucked... and/or, if their Lombardi somehow “doesn’t count” because regular season wasn’t “dominant” enough. By what subjective means do they get measured?

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Last season, the Taperiots won the Super Bowl. But, they also lost to...

    ...a 5-11 team
    ...a 6-10 team
    ...a 7-9 team
    ...a 9-6-1 team
    ...a 9-7 team

    None of those five teams made the playoffs.

    QUESTION:
    I’m not sure if that means that the Taperiots “actually” sucked... and/or, if their Lombardi somehow “doesn’t count” because regular season wasn’t “dominant” enough. By what subjective means do they get measured?
    The Patriots had their worst regular season since 2009 ... Still pretty good for an 11-5 season!

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    The Patriots had their worst regular season since 2009 ... Still pretty good for an 11-5 season!
    But... is it “good”???

    I really don’t know any more.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    But... is it “good”???

    I really don’t know any more.
    It's not like that happens to the patriots in every year, losing several times against bad teams

    We can not compare our situation to the patriots .... Never the pats would have lost against a weak Raiders team at the worst possible time.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    It's not like that happens to the patriots in every year, losing several times against bad teams

    We can not compare our situation to the patriots .... Never the pats would have lost against a weak Raiders team at the worst possible time.
    Oh... okay. Got it. Raiders games are the only losses that count. Whew!!!... thank you for clarifying.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Defense makes the INTs instead of dropping them the season ends with a 13-3 record for the 2nd straight year. You can point to a thousand other grievances with the Steelers but that statement still holds true. This over here could have helped win games, that over there could have helped win games. Maybe all true. But the statement DC Butler said about dropped INTs is a true statement. What is the point other than just being negative and argumentative?

    Can we expect to improve the turnover differential this season and why?

    I believe we can and should expect it to get better. I believe this is exactly why players like Bush, Layne, and Gilbert were drafted. This is why the secondary now has 2 coordinators to work directly with players. The fact that the DC and HC have both addressed this as a main point of focus for the upcoming season is exactly why we can expect the Steelers to improve in this area DC Butler is talking about.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Oh... okay. Got it. Raiders games are the only losses that count. Whew!!!... thank you for clarifying.

    No, but it does not happen to the patriots every year(losing to bad team often).

    But yes the Pats had not been a dominant team in the regular season in 2018 ... The Chiefs, Saints, Rams and even the Bears and Chargers were for the most part been better than the pats in the regular season.

    But yes I would have been happy if the steelers would have won a super bowl in this way

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    But yes I would have been happy if the steelers would have won a super bowl in this way
    I call “bullshit”.

    Sorry. I do not believe you.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I call “bullshit”.

    Sorry. I do not believe you.
    I do not understand why you say that .... I mean I was proud of the steelers even after the super bowl loss of the steelers in 2010 .....

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Don't the Patriots annualy lose to lesser teams? I mean I know the entire internet has the usual October freakout that "this is the year the dynasty ends". Then they go 11-5 and no one cares.


    Meanwhile...Steelers fans are analyzing the dominance level of individual plays to assess if a playoff appearing team was actually worthy.

    Good to know that style points are important. Guess this is like gymnastics or something.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    It's not like that happens to the patriots in every year, losing several times against bad teams

    We can not compare our situation to the patriots .... Never the pats would have lost against a weak Raiders team at the worst possible time.
    but it does not happen to the patriots every year(losing to bad team often)
    This linked article was written before the Pats lost again to a chronically underperforming Dolphins team in Miami last season

    Brady is 7-9 vs. the Dolphins in Miami.

    https://www.espn.com/blog/miami-dolp...-and-tom-brady

    Now 7-10

    The Pats almost always get the first round bye to set up playoffs success but there have been recurring head scratching regular season losses during their run

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    This linked article was written before the Pats lost again to a chronically underperforming Dolphins team in Miami last season

    Brady is 7-9 vs. the Dolphins in Miami.

    https://www.espn.com/blog/miami-dolp...-and-tom-brady

    Now 7-10

    The Pats almost always get the first round bye to set up playoffs success but there have been recurring head scratching regular season losses during their run
    Losses to the Dolphins don’t count.

    Only losses to the Raiders count.


    C’mon, pay attention.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    This linked article was written before the Pats lost again to a chronically underperforming Dolphins team in Miami last season

    Brady is 7-9 vs. the Dolphins in Miami.

    https://www.espn.com/blog/miami-dolp...-and-tom-brady

    Now 7-10

    The Pats almost always get the first round bye to set up playoffs success but there have been recurring head scratching regular season losses during their run
    I knew that the pats were bad in Miami ...... But outside at Miami, it does not happen often that the pats lose against horrible teams.

    Don't the Patriots annualy lose to lesser teams? I mean I know the entire internet has the usual October freakout that "this is the year the dynasty ends". Then they go 11-5 and no one cares.


    Meanwhile...Steelers fans are analyzing the dominance level of individual plays to assess if a playoff appearing team was actually worthy.

    Good to know that style points are important. Guess this is like gymnastics or something.
    I just do not think the steelers were good like the 13-3 record in 2017 ... I was still happy after every win that year .... I can not believe a few think I would not have been happy if they would have won the super bowl.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    I knew that the pats were bad in Miami ...... But outside at Miami, it does not happen often that the pats lose against horrible teams.



    I just do not think the steelers were good like the 13-3 record in 2017 ... I was still happy after every win that year .... I can not believe a few think I would not have been happy if they would have won the super bowl.
    Fair enough. But you paint yourself into a corner a bit. I mean we all do, but you are posting in multiple threads about how this or that win was not dominating enough. Or this playoff appearance doesn’t really count because the team only made it after barely winning against some lesser team or whatever. It gives off the impression that anything other than 14 win season with the only two loses being last second heart-breakers to whatever team you deem worthy to beat the Steelers and all the victories being by 3+ touchdowns is a failure. On top of that, only SB victories matter and other outcomes are the disappointing results of poorly coached under archiving rosters.

    I do not think this is your intention, just as it is not often my intention to come off like a jerk — but it happens! No big deal, but there just seems to be a line of argument around here that anything less than a SB victory is a meaningless waste of a season. Then after that gets established, people start in on qualifying playoff seasons and appearances as not really that good because this or that should have happened that didn’t.

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but that is just a hard argument to take because it starts from a false premise. We see and hear this premise all over sports that such and such team is a “championship team” and they “should win multiple titles”. But this is just a doomed argument from the start. Sports is incredibly unpredictable. Championships are almost impossible to win. Injuries and random events happen every game. No team is destined or just ordained to win a championship. But each season several fan bases in every sport talk about how anything less than a trophy is a failure and a letdown. I can’t and don’t get it.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    I would have liked to see the steelers won a super bowl in the killer b's era, but what who has disappointed me the most in this era, it is that the steelers would have to accomplish more than that .... too much Drama, lack of focus, injuries at the worst possible time, lack of leadership were problems.

    For the blowout win,the steelers need to have more, especially against weak teams .... it's always dangerous when it's a close game especially against his teams .... I understand that you can not always won by 10 points or more and when you play against very good teams, I understand that the games are close, but it's also true that steelers rarely win by 10 points or more ..... That's true also that steelers rarely lose by 10 points or more (it only happens twice in the last 2 years)

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    And if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle.

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    Re: Keith Butler: ‘The Difference Between 13-3 And 9-6-1 Were Those Dropped Interceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra Tank View Post
    And if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle.
    In this day and age...not necessarily true...lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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