Buy Or Sell: AB’s Absence Will Lead To Fewer Interceptions From Roethlisberger

[86WARD]

It did if Ben wanted to keep him happy and not have his diva wr throw a hissy fit on the sidelines.

Ben forced the ball before AB and he will force the ball after AB. AB is the most talented receiver the Steelers have ever had so of course, Ben forced the ball to AB more than some of the others, but it falls on Ben as he’s the one forcing the ball and making the ill advised throws. If he’s doing it to make a teammate “happy”, then Ben is the one hurting the team more than anyone as he’s putting individuals in front of the team.

Ben forcing the ball isn’t a terrible thing, he’s made a pretty damned good career out of it, but it’s not ABs fault...lol. It wasn’t “ABs fault” ever up until this point. It’s just funny how the color of the glasses change...

[Butch]

Ben forced the ball before AB and he will force the ball after AB. AB is the most talented receiver the Steelers have ever had so of course, Ben forced the ball to AB more than some of the others, but it falls on Ben as he’s the one forcing the ball and making the ill advised throws. If he’s doing it to make a teammate “happy”, then Ben is the one hurting the team more than anyone as he’s putting individuals in front of the team.

Ben forcing the ball isn’t a terrible thing, he’s made a pretty damned good career out of it, but it’s not ABs fault...lol. It wasn’t “ABs fault” ever up until this point. It’s just funny how the color of the glasses change...

Never once did I see Ben throwing a fit on the sideline, but I have AB. Ben had to keep him appeased in order to avoid the inevitable melt downs. AB has proven by his own comments that he is only concerned for his own stats and was jealous of his former teammate getting the recognition he so insanely coveted. I honestly believe this all stems from the hit by burfect, it was after that hit when he started to act out. As for the glasses yours are a little tainted as well. Guess maybe we should just agree to disagree and move on.

[Six Rings]

I'm buying. Brown sometimes plays volleyball, which leads to interceptions, and Ben at times forced the ball to Brown. Brown is a smaller guy, not the type to win many jump balls or break up passes that are going to be intercepted.

[polamalubeast]

Remember when Ben had 45-50 sacks per year and many said it was his fault and not the o-line and that Ben would always give sacks regardless of the quality of his o-line because of his style and he was never going to change!

If he was able to change his style a bit, he can probably least forcing passes now that Ben will not hear Brown in his ear every time he had no target in a drive for him.I would be very surprised if JuJu acted like that.

[Mojouw]

I hope you guys are right. But it certainly does seem like we are already rewriting history here. All WRs want the ball. There are no WRs in the NFL who are not certain they are not open on every play and that the QB was dumb to not just cut it loose and get them the ball. But not Hines!. Yes, Hines and Jujubee.

Also, AB is small but he was one of the best contested catch WRs I’ve seen in a long time.

[polamalubeast]

I hope you guys are right. But it certainly does seem like we are already rewriting history here. All WRs want the ball. There are no WRs in the NFL who are not certain they are not open on every play and that the QB was dumb to not just cut it loose and get them the ball. But not Hines!. Yes, Hines and Jujubee.

Also, AB is small but he was one of the best contested catch WRs I’ve seen in a long time.

Yes, every WR wants the ball, but some are worse than others.

Like when Larry Fitzgerald did not have the ball in some game, the Cards had very little drama despite that ... but when Terrell Owens did not have the ball, it was a circus, even in the sidelines!

[pczach]

Yep, Antonio Brown is a real quality dude.

Ben is clearly the problem. I know that because I heard it here.

The front office and Tomlin were also the problem because they didn't know his family or his kids' names.





:j erkit::jer kit::jerki t:


If only Brown knew or cared about his own children. What a fraud.

AB lies about everything because that's what AB does. To think that so many want to buy into anything he claims is beyond ridiculous. Even if you dislike Ben and think he is a horrible human.....Holding AB in higher esteem than Big Ben is so intellectually dishonest that it's hard to know where to begin.

Does this explain why Big Ben throws interceptions? Of course not. But let's not sit here and point fingers at the quarterback in that relationship. Everything that happened on that field on game day is there for anyone to see. Anyone with sight can see who showed up the other nearly every week. Those who don't see it don't want to see it.

[AtlantaDan]

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...R/RoetBe00.htm

Ben tends to toss about 11-15 INTs per year at about a tick under 3% as a rate.

That link above to Ben throwing 23 picks in 2006 is a reminder what a total cluster the 2006 season was, peaking with the Raiders loss in which Ben threw 4 picks (2 pick sixes) and probably would not have been allowed to play under current standards after being concussed the previous week in Atlanta

For everyone who gets misty eyed about how great it was under Cowher, that team had one of the worst Super Bowl hangovers ever. Season was effectively over in early November as Cowher checked out with his family already moved to North Carolina while his contract extension discussions cratered that summer

FWIW I agree Ben has been careless with the INTs most of his career. That pattern returned after Ben had arguably his best season in 2014, which included only 9 INTs. I doubt 2019 will see a return to the disciplined play of 2014 and expect the usual number of boneheaded picks along with great plays from Ben this coming season - it is what it is.

[polamalubeast]

That link above to Ben throwing 23 picks in 2006 is a reminder what a total cluster the 2006 season was, peaking with the Raiders loss in which Ben threw 4 picks (2 pick sixes) and probably would not have been allowed to play under current standards after being concussed the previous week in Atlanta

For everyone who gets misty eyed about how great it was under Cowher, that team had one of the worst Super Bowl hangovers ever. Season was effectively over in early November as Cowher checked out with his family already moved to North Carolina while his contract extension discussions cratered that summer

.

One of the most painful seasons as a fan!

It was obvious that before the season it was Cowher's last season and it was his worst coaching job of his career and of course Ben's accident did not help, but he was so bad (especially in the first half of the season with 14 interceptions in 7 games) some thought the steelers needed a new QB for the future!

[Butch]

I hope you guys are right. But it certainly does seem like we are already rewriting history here. All WRs want the ball. There are no WRs in the NFL who are not certain they are not open on every play and that the QB was dumb to not just cut it loose and get them the ball. But not Hines!. Yes, Hines and Jujubee.

Also, AB is small but he was one of the best contested catch WRs I’ve seen in a long time.

polamalubeast beat me to it, but it's not rewriting football history. Yes every WR want's the ball, but the difference is how they go about it when they don't get it.

Swan and Stallworth both wanted the ball too. Swan once designed a play for Bradshaw to get him the ball and Terry ended up running that play in the Super Bowl but...to Stallworth for a TD. Swan didn't throw the Gatorade jug onto the field or storm off to the sideline in a huff. He shrugged his shoulder and moved on. With AB's recent activities I am convinced if that had that same thing happened to him he it would have been the end of the world for AB.

Last year AB walked out on his team in the last game of the season. I honestly think he believed the team would lose without him, but they didn't.

When he video taped from the locker room I was lead to believe from others on this board it's what people do today and not to worry about it and I thought maybe they are right. No it was definitely a sign of things to come.

[86WARD]

Never once did I see Ben throwing a fit on the sideline, but I have AB. Ben had to keep him appeased in order to avoid the inevitable melt downs. AB has proven by his own comments that he is only concerned for his own stats and was jealous of his former teammate getting the recognition he so insanely coveted. I honestly believe this all stems from the hit by burfect, it was after that hit when he started to act out. As for the glasses yours are a little tainted as well. Guess maybe we should just agree to disagree and move on.

I don’t think anyone said Ben was throwing fits. All of what you mention has nothing to do with Ben forcing the ball. Ben doesn’t have to force a ball to a WR...whether it be Hines, Holmes, Burris’s, Miller or AB. Ben chooses to throw the ball and that’s on Ben. NOTHING says he has to force the ball into a covered WR. NOTHING. If he’s throwing the ball in fear of some all of a sudden low character WR throwing a water cooler on the sidelines, that again, is a problem.

No ones saying Ben sucks...history just shows, on occasion he forces the ball where he shouldn’t...sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t.

[86WARD]

Yep, Antonio Brown is a real quality dude.

Ben is clearly the problem. I know that because I heard it here.

The front office and Tomlin were also the problem because they didn't know his family or his kids' names.





:j erkit::jer kit::jerki t:


If only Brown knew or cared about his own children. What a fraud.

AB lies about everything because that's what AB does. To think that so many want to buy into anything he claims is beyond ridiculous. Even if you dislike Ben and think he is a horrible human.....Holding AB in higher esteem than Big Ben is so intellectually dishonest that it's hard to know where to begin.

Does this explain why Big Ben throws interceptions? Of course not. But let's not sit here and point fingers at the quarterback in that relationship. Everything that happened on that field on game day is there for anyone to see. Anyone with sight can see who showed up the other nearly every week. Those who don't see it don't want to see it.

NONE of that has anything to do with where Ben decides to throw a football. Who is trying to say AB is a good character guy? Lol. What’s next? Ben threw the ball to JuJu because he wanted to make him feel good about losing his bike?

I get the hate for AB...it’s typical of this board to turn the hate switch on like that but to say It’s ABs fault Ben forces throws? Lol. Come on. What about the balls he forces to Washington? JuJu? McDonald? All ABs fault too?

[polamalubeast]

NONE of that has anything to do with where Ben decides to throw a football. Who is trying to say AB is a good character guy? Lol. What’s next? Ben threw the ball to JuJu because he wanted to make him feel good about losing his bike?

I get the hate for AB...it’s typical of this board to turn the hate switch on like that but to say It’s ABs fault Ben forces throws? Lol. Come on. What about the balls he forces to Washington? JuJu? McDonald? All ABs fault too?

Ben had only 6 interceptions in the other targets last year.

Yes Ben has often forced throw in the past, but it's rarely been out of control ... Sometimes if Ben had 2-3 drives in a row and that Brown had not a lot of target, AB would say it in the ear to Ben!

[pczach]

NONE of that has anything to do with where Ben decides to throw a football. Who is trying to say AB is a good character guy? Lol. What’s next? Ben threw the ball to JuJu because he wanted to make him feel good about losing his bike?

I get the hate for AB...it’s typical of this board to turn the hate switch on like that but to say It’s ABs fault Ben forces throws? Lol. Come on. What about the balls he forces to Washington? JuJu? McDonald? All ABs fault too?

That's why I stated in my post that you quoted: "Does this explain why Ben throws interceptions? Of course not."

It's right there in my post.

I was commenting on the situation and comments by people about who is to blame in the relationship and AB's sideline blowups. I am stating who puts pressure on the other, and why.

[86WARD]

That's why I stated in my post that you quoted: "Does this explain why Ben throws interceptions? Of course not."

It's right there in my post.

I was commenting on the situation and comments by people about who is to blame in the relationship and AB's sideline blowups. I am stating who puts pressure on the other, and why.

I get that. I wasn’t trying to single you out. Probably shouldn’t have quoted it. It’s just a general thing around here that once a guy leaves Pittsburgh he’s a four alarm asshole and all of a sudden all of Ben’s interceptions that went ABs way were ABs fault and the decision to “force” the ball was also ABs fault.

Is Ben that weak that he can’t make decisions without the ultra persuasive AB in his ear? Lol. Come on...

[86WARD]

Ben had only 6 interceptions in the other targets last year.

Yes Ben has often forced throw in the past, but it's rarely been out of control ... Sometimes if Ben had 2-3 drives in a row and that Brown had not a lot of target, AB would say it in the ear to Ben!

So Ben had to do what AB asked or did Ben make the decision to do what AB asked?

[43Hitman]

So Ben had to do what AB asked or did Ben make the decision to do what AB asked?

You're making some damn good points. At first I thought you were bagging on him. Actually though you're just trying to keep us intellectually honest.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[86WARD]

You're making some damn good points. At first I thought you were bagging on him. Actually though you're just trying to keep us intellectually honest.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I'm not bagging on Ben at all. I love the guy, probably more than the next fan does and wouldn't take many others in his place in Pittsburgh. The guy makes some questionable throws at times and forces the ball on his own. Brett Favre did the same thing and with that "forced interception", you get 2-3 plays that are brilliant. I'll take that trade off any day of the week. But people ayaing the interceptions are ABs fault alone...or that he's in Ben's ear and that's what caused the problems...it's fueled by hate on AB IMO. And can you blame Ben for trying to force the ball to the best WR in the league? Not really...

[HollywoodSteel]

I’m gonna go out on a real controversial limb here... and kind of agree with everyone.

I totally agree with Mojouw in the big picture sense. But did Ben have more interceptions LAST YEAR specifically because he tried to feed it to AB too often? Probably.

Is that the most important question in the grand scheme of things? Probably not.

For all of AB’s faults, was he a net positive for this team while he was here? That can’t really be a question in anyone’s mind. He was one of the best ever. That’s simply a fact.

Will the team as a whole be better this year now that he’s gone? I like to think so. But it’s a real stretch to say that our offense will be objectively better BECAUSE he is gone, regardless of the exact number of ints.

[polamalubeast]

AB was a great player for us on the field, but last year it was his worst season in his peak ..... It looks like the chemistry between Ben and Brown was not as good as in the other years before.

It's not only for the interceptions but also on its efficiency like the yards by target or its % of catch per target.

For the 10 interceptions of Ben with Brown as target .... It may not be Brown's fault,but it can be tiring for a QB to often hear a player that he was open, even if sometimes it was true.

[hawaiiansteeler]

AB scores 21 TDs and leads the Raiders to a Super Bowl Championship and is named the Walter Payton Man of Year winner for his charitable contributions in Oakland. meanwhile, Ben struggles without a go to WR and the Steelers win only 8 games (Tomlin never has a losing season).

[86WARD]

AB scores 21 TDs and leads the Raiders to a Super Bowl Championship and is named the Walter Payton Man of Year winner for his charitable contributions in Oakland. meanwhile, Ben struggles without a go to WR and the Steelers win only 8 games (Tomlin never has a losing season).

This board would explode...lol

[AtlantaDan]

It’s just a general thing around here that once a guy leaves Pittsburgh he’s a four alarm asshole

You mean like this?

Warning - NSFW audio

[Butch]

Originally Posted by 86WARD
It’s just a general thing around here that once a guy leaves Pittsburgh he’s a four alarm asshole

Yeah because it's not like ab did anything to warrant being referred to as an asshole. It's one thing to leave a team it's another to force your way off the roster the way he did. ab had some good moments with us and they won't be forgotten, but they will be tarnished.

[86WARD]

Jeff Graham, Mike Vrabel, Plaxico Burress, Jeff Reed, Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, LeVeon Bell, AB...the list goes on and on. All considered assholes because they left Pittsburgh. No one said he isn’t an asshole but the objectivity is thrown out the window once a player leaves Pittsburgh...they’re just considered assholes...no questions asked...lol

[Mojouw]

Jeff Graham, Mike Vrabel, Plaxico Burress, Jeff Reed, Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, LeVeon Bell, AB...the list goes on and on. All considered assholes because they left Pittsburgh. No one said he isn’t an asshole but the objectivity is thrown out the window once a player leaves Pittsburgh...they’re just considered assholes...no questions asked...lol

You're not wrong.

[AtlantaDan]

Jeff Graham, Mike Vrabel, Plaxico Burress, Jeff Reed, Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, LeVeon Bell, AB...the list goes on and on. All considered assholes because they left Pittsburgh. No one said he isn’t an asshole but the objectivity is thrown out the window once a player leaves Pittsburgh...they’re just considered assholes...no questions asked...lol

I do not recall much venom directed at Graham (a mediocrity not worth getting worked up about) or Vrabel (who Cowher could never figure out how to use)

As far as the rest there is empirical evidence to support each of them being jackasses - Steelers fan base is no different than any other in turning on former players who were tolerated for acting out until they leave.

I have posted this before, but Jerry Seinfeld said it best - most fans root for the uniform

[Butch]

I do not recall much venom directed at Graham (a mediocrity not worth getting worked up about) or Vrabel (who Cowher could never figure out how to use)]

If I am not mistaken Cowher actually suggested to hoody to take Vrabel.

[polamalubeast]

Jeff Graham, Mike Vrabel, Plaxico Burress, Jeff Reed, Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, LeVeon Bell, AB...the list goes on and on. All considered assholes because they left Pittsburgh. No one said he isn’t an asshole but the objectivity is thrown out the window once a player leaves Pittsburgh...they’re just considered assholes...no questions asked...lol

Pittsburgh is no different than several cities.

[86WARD]

I do not recall much venom directed at Graham (a mediocrity not worth getting worked up about) or Vrabel (who Cowher could never figure out how to use)

As far as the rest there is empirical evidence to support each of them being jackasses - Steelers fan base is no different than any other in turning on former players who were tolerated for acting out until they leave.

I have posted this before, but Jerry Seinfeld said it best - most fans root for the uniform

There was hate for Graham. Same way there was for Randle El. It wasn’t that Cowher didn’t know how to use Vrabel, there was no room for Vrabel. But that really has nothing to do with the hate people had for him after he left.

Point is...there’s no objectivity whether they are assholes when they leave or leave on good terms. Once gone, they suck, what they did in Pittsburgh wasn’t that great and nothing they do from here on out is any good...lol.


A couple years ago, people around here were all over ABs junk about how he’s going to be better than Jerry Rice. He could do no wrong. Best receiver in the league. He was saying all the right things and then all of a sudden his ego stepped in and people thought he was just being funny and then it went all sideways...but people still defended him up until this past off-season. Now the guy all of a sudden isn’t a Top-5 talent...was never that good to start with, won’t be missed...blah, blah, blah. Same love JuJu is getting right now is the exact same love that AB got when Sanders left and what was Sanders? He sucked all of a sudden...lol.