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Thread: Big Ben is better than...

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    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Big Ben is better than...

    Which ones of these great Quarterbacks would you rate Big Ben's career as better?

    A. Aikman
    B. Bradshaw
    C. Fouts
    D. Moon
    E. Staubach
    F. Elway
    G Young
    H. Marino
    I. Favre

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    Senior Member Array title="HollywoodSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> HollywoodSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    I think you might want to be more specific with the question. Is his career better than anyone with less rings, since that’s what players play for? Does that make his career is better than Marino’s? Yes. Is he a better QB than Marino ever was? Probably not.

    Are you asking us to judge him and compare him using the criteria we might use for HOF selection, taking everything into account? Or just career numbers?

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    I’m asking you to rank them using any criteria you choose, but with the attempt to be unbiased. I think most of these guys are in his category in the list of all-time greats. Personally, rings carry a lot of weight but at the same time I wouldn’t rank him above Marino.

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    At least,A and D

    Maybe B,C and F

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    I’d rank him better than four guys on that list, with the possibility to be better than five.

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    Big Ben is better than...

    I’d rank him high on that list. Probably below Young, Marino and Favre...maybe below Bradshawbut probably not. MYbe higher than Yoong.. Based on numbers, Super Bowls and on field play...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Maybe E too.

    Only Favre and Marino are no doubt ahead of Ben.

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    He's a better QB than Aikman or Bradshaw but has had a worse career. He's a worse QB than Young or Marino but has had a more successful career. Elway, Staubach, and Favre are in the same ballpark overall, but I'd give the ability edge to Elway and Favre over Ben, and Ben the edge over Staubach. The others are no contest.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    I would say Ben is better than Aikman (played behind one of the all time great O-lines along while having Emmitt Smith & Michael Irvin) + Warren Moon

    Early career Ben better than early career Bradshaw - but once the light went on for Bradshaw late in the 1974 season his skill set would have shredded modern defenses

    Those are the only ones for me where Ben is better

    Fouts has no rings but Air Coryell was a breakout offense and Fouts had to play with Chargers defenses after 1979 (IMO that 79 Chargers team would have beaten the Steelers in the playoffs if they had not choked in the playoffs against the Oilers) that make Keith Butler's crews look like the 85 Bears

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    I would say Ben is better than Aikman (played behind one of the all time great O-lines along while having Emmitt Smith & Michael Irvin) + Warren Moon

    Early career Ben better than early career Bradshaw - but once the light went on for Bradshaw late in the 1974 season his skill set would have shredded modern defenses

    Those are the only ones for me where Ben is better

    Fouts has no rings but Air Coryell was a breakout offense and Fouts had to play with Chargers defenses after 1979 (IMO that 79 Chargers team would have beaten the Steelers in the playoffs if they had not choked in the playoffs against the Oilers) that make Keith Butler's crews look like the 85 Bears
    Maybe for 1979, but at the same time, Fouts was the reason why the chargers had lost!

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...7912290sdg.htm

    He was pathetic at the worst possible time!..One of the worst performances by a HOF QB in a close playoffs loss since 1978 in the NFL .... Maybe even the worst especially with the context!

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Ben could have been on the top of that list if he had only studied more film and been a better leader like Peyton...

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    Ben could have been on the top of that list if he had only studied more film and been a better leader like Peyton...
    Seriously, I would have loved to see Ben with a great offensive coach.

    His best offensive coach that Ben had was Ken Whisenhunt in his first 3 years .... Very good OC, but he's not Sean Payton.

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Which ones of these great Quarterbacks would you rate Big Ben's career as better?

    A. Aikman
    B. Bradshaw
    C. Fouts
    D. Moon
    E. Staubach
    F. Elway
    G Young
    H. Marino
    I. Favre
    Moon, Elway, Young, Marino, and Favre were better. Not maybe by a great deal, but better. Bradshaw, Fouts, and Staubach are too hard for me to compare, because I have really only seen highlights and heard the tales.

    Ben is better than Aikman. Not by a lot, but his improvisation ekes out a lead.

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Seriously, I would have loved to see Ben with a great offensive coach.

    His best offensive coach that Ben had was Ken Whisenhunt in his first 3 years .... Very good OC, but he's not Sean Payton.
    But QB whisperer Bruce Arians made Peyton and Ben

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    But QB whisperer Bruce Arians made Peyton and Ben
    I had no problem with Arians, but he was far to be perfect

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    I had no problem with Arians, but he was far to be perfect
    Arians was a great developer of qbs, as a playcaller, he failed

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Which ones of these great Quarterbacks would you rate Big Ben's career as better?

    A. Aikman
    B. Bradshaw
    C. Fouts
    D. Moon
    E. Staubach
    F. Elway
    G Young
    H. Marino
    I. Favre
    Elway
    Marino
    Favre
    Young
    Bradshaw
    Staubach
    Roethlisberger
    Aikman
    Moon
    Fouts

    That's what I got. Fouts, great numbers, product of Air Coryell, no rings and not a guy I say that I want over any of those other guys in the clutch drive at the end of a game. Aikman, good QB, but again behind a great O line and all time RB and good defense put up some OK passing numbers. Moon is close as he had performance, resolve, longevity and did well at several stops, but was saddled by that lousy Mouse Davis offense and dysfunctional team that could never be a championship team.

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Well, Ben was better than Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, and Tommy Maddox

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Elway
    Marino
    Favre
    Young
    Bradshaw
    Staubach
    Roethlisberger
    Aikman
    Moon
    Fouts

    That's what I got. Fouts, great numbers, product of Air Coryell, no rings and not a guy I say that I want over any of those other guys in the clutch drive at the end of a game. Aikman, good QB, but again behind a great O line and all time RB and good defense put up some OK passing numbers. Moon is close as he had performance, resolve, longevity and did well at several stops, but was saddled by that lousy Mouse Davis offense and dysfunctional team that could never be a championship team.
    The one year Moon had the team to win it all, they choked away a 35-3 lead at Buffalo. I mean ffs really? Though that Houston team was as strong as one I've ever seen. I thought they'd win the Super Bowl that year.

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    Well, Ben was better than Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, and Tommy Maddox

    - - - Updated - - -



    The one year Moon had the team to win it all, they choked away a 35-3 lead at Buffalo. I mean ffs really? Though that Houston team was as strong as one I've ever seen. I thought they'd win the Super Bowl that year.
    That game brings back a vivid memory of mine from my twenties. I lived in Louisiana at the time and a friend of mine was a huge Oilers fan, I watched that game with him and then watched him put his foot through the TV. He looked at me and said "F@#& THE STEELERS" GET OUT! I said, but we weren't even playing with a smirk on my face. Best day ever as a rival fan hanging with a bud.


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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    Well, Ben was better than Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, and Tommy Maddox

    - - - Updated - - -



    The one year Moon had the team to win it all, they choked away a 35-3 lead at Buffalo. I mean ffs really? Though that Houston team was as strong as one I've ever seen. I thought they'd win the Super Bowl that year.
    The Bills had like scored 4 TD in 6 minutes during the 3rd quarter to put the game 35-31 .... It was a crazy comeback and a crazy choke for the Houston Oilers....The only reason this is not the biggest choke in NFL history is because of the Atlanta Falcons in 2016....

    The Oilers had 4 TDs in 4 drives in the first half in offense and after a pick 6 it was 35-3, but when it was 35-24, the oilers only had one punt with 0 turnover in 5 drives in this game, so the Oilers had been almost perfect in their first 5 drive and it was only 35-24 and then the team continued to collapse ... The blame goes mainly to the defense and after the special team to not recover the onside kick.

    The oilers with Moon had a major problem to protect their lead .... in 1992, in the first year of Bill Cowher,the steelers made 2 huge comebacks against them and they had some others collapse, but of course against the Bills were the icing on the cake but in their playoffs game in Denver the year before, the oilers also had a huge lead before their collapse (21-6 I think) and in 1993 it was obvious that against Joe Montana and the Chiefs, the Oilers were still going to lose the lead once again in a playoff game and that was still the case

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Better than Fouts and Moon for sure. Definitely behind Favre, Marino and Elway. I'd put Bradshaw above Ben too considering Bradshaw not just won but was clutch in 4 Super Bowls. That leaves Aikman, Staubach, and Young (tremendous company to be comparable to). I'd put Ben above Aikman but not by a lot, though I can't help Aikman has more Super Bowls because of Neil O Donnell. I'd put Staubach above Ben, super clutch and was the driving force behind those Cowboys teams. I'd also put Young above Ben too, insane offensive numbers, multiple time MVP, would have won multiple SBs as a starter were it not for Montana starting in front of him and buzzsaws in the Cowboys and Packers in the 90s.

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Moon, Elway, Young, Marino, and Favre were better. Not maybe by a great deal, but better. Bradshaw, Fouts, and Staubach are too hard for me to compare, because I have really only seen highlights and heard the tales.

    Ben is better than Aikman. Not by a lot, but his improvisation ekes out a lead.
    Moon was very underrated, especially since several years were wasted in the CFL because he was black.

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    Well, Ben was better than Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, and Tommy Maddox

    - - - Updated - - -



    The one year Moon had the team to win it all, they choked away a 35-3 lead at Buffalo. I mean ffs really? Though that Houston team was as strong as one I've ever seen. I thought they'd win the Super Bowl that year.
    Man, there was this one CB on the Oilers named Jackson who was in the picture on like EVERY big play for Buffalo with some kind of coverage fail. I was watching the game with my dad, and to this day, whenever someone really fucks up in a televised sporting event, he'll say "Jackson - fired!" and I know exactly what he is talking about.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    Well, Ben was better than Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, and Tommy Maddox

    - - - Updated - - -



    The one year Moon had the team to win it all, they choked away a 35-3 lead at Buffalo. I mean ffs really? Though that Houston team was as strong as one I've ever seen. I thought they'd win the Super Bowl that year.
    The Run N' Shoot offense :
    -was great outside of the 2 yard line
    -wasn't designed to be able to run the football and close out games
    -was succeptable to tough games in poor weather due to being a passing oriented offense.

    The Steelers comeback from 17 points down vs the Browns in the 2002 Wildcard round was similar in that Cleveland had no running game and kept giving the football back in the same way the Oilers did to the Bills. Being a 1 dimensional offense never is a good thing.

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    The Steelers comeback from 17 points down vs the Browns in the 2002 Wildcard round was similar in that Cleveland had no running game and kept giving the football back in the same way the Oilers did to the Bills. Being a 1 dimensional offense never is a good thing.

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    Ben could have been on the top of that list if he had only studied more film and been a better leader like Peyton...
    Ben would be on the top of that list if tomlin weren't an average coach...


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    Big Ben is better than...

    Elway may be the most overrated QB of All-Time...lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    I suppose Moon and possibly Fouts.

    Definite no's are Marino, Staubach, Bradshaw, Favre, Young
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Elway may be the most overrated QB of All-Time...lol
    Tom Brady begs to differ
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Big Ben is better than...

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Which ones of these great Quarterbacks would you rate Big Ben's career as better?

    A. Aikman
    B. Bradshaw
    C. Fouts
    D. Moon
    E. Staubach
    F. Elway
    G Young
    H. Marino
    I. Favre

    Aikman was a very good QB, but hardly great. See his stats, you'll see.

    Bradshaw was a great big game QB, but overall too inconsistent.

    Fouts was a pure passer type but he team didn't go anywhere. You could say the same for Moon.

    I'd say Ben is better than those four. If he can throw another 50 TD's and win a championship vs anyone on the list.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm


    ^^^ Any questions?

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