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    What has happened to the Democratic party?

    According to polls, they prefer socialism over capitalism?
    This can't be correct, I doubt most in the poll understand what socialism really is.


    Then we have the angry Islamic tyyes, one of which recently said she was at five with the Nazi holocaust. A racist statment, which was not even called out by Democrat leaders.


    What's going on here?

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?


    TimCast spells it out with charts and graphs.
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?



    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    According to polls, they prefer socialism over capitalism?
    This can't be correct, I doubt most in the poll understand what socialism really is.


    Then we have the angry Islamic tyyes, one of which recently said she was at five with the Nazi holocaust. A racist statment, which was not even called out by Democrat leaders.


    What's going on here?
    They're basically communists.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    They're basically communists.
    Sounds like Trump...lol.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Sounds like Trump...lol.

    Nah, Trump isn't a liberal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra Tank View Post
    If Trump doesn't win again I'm actually frightened what could happen with the clown this "party" puts up.

    Every single one of them is just pandering to "brown" people with something each week. They are the party of big government that wants to make decisions for you because apparently you are too stupid to.

    Reparations, free college, free healthcare, no borders, amnesty to illegals ... it's nonstop and disgusting. And if you question any of their new "policies" you're a RACIST.
    That's what Dems do. The gullible liberals eat it up.
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    Nah, Trump isn't a liberal.
    LMAO. Sure, he's not.

    Let's see,


    • First president to get a permanent measure of gun control passed since 1986. (Clinton's was time-limited except for instant background checks). And, he did it by executive fiat.
    • He has never spoke out against Obamacare as a concept. Only that it costs too much. He was for single-payer and has never spoken against the idea (only the cost of single-payer systems already in place).
    • He is protectionist. Something that has long been against Republican ideals.
    • He raised taxes. I know, I know, it was called a "tax cut." However, he actually raised taxes on over 10 million families due to eliminating exemptions, capping SALT deductions, and other such things.


    Perhaps the one thing he has done that is "Conservative" while in office is installing conservative judges in the Ninth Circuit court and in the Supreme court.


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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    They have been taken over by the fringe movement.

    Seriously, when Nancy Pelosi of all people is at odds with another member of congress (specifically AOC) in her own party because that member of congress is crazy and an extremist, you know you have gone too far

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    If Trump doesn't win again I'm actually frightened what could happen with the clown this "party" puts up.

    Every single one of them is just pandering to "brown" people with something each week. They are the party of big government that wants to make decisions for you because apparently you are too stupid to.

    Reparations, free college, free healthcare, no borders, amnesty to illegals ... it's nonstop and disgusting. And if you question any of their new "policies" you're a RACIST.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    [QUOTE=Ezra Tank;696093]If Trump doesn't win again I'm actually frightened what could happen with the clown this "party" puts up.

    Every single one of them is just pandering to "brown" people with something each week. They are the party of big government that wants to make decisions for you because apparently you are too stupid to.

    Reparations, free college, free healthcare, no borders, amnesty to illegals ... it's nonstop and disgusting. And if you question any of their new "policies" you're a RACIST.[/QUOT]

    Doesn't matter what they say, they are doing just that: pandering. If they get into office they will forget all promises until re-election time.

    But Dems and Reps (aside from Trump) seemingly don't truly care about the country, just lining their own pockets by keeping the fires stoked on issues they claim to want to resolve but never do .. even when given the chance. Like a super majority etc.

    They only vote for stuff that would solve issues when they know there are enough votes against it to keep it alive and well.

    I hate the government, they are just a bunch of worthless pukes. Especially Congress, they literally don't do anything and get buku vacation days + salary. It's sickening.
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?


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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    These hearing are a farce. Backup manufactured B.S. after the Russian Collusion scandal the Dems have been trying to push for 2 years backfired with Adam Schiff as the director. The whole way the Dems have gone about this is pure B.S

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?


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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    What happened to the Republican Party or politics in general. They’re all a bunch of equal dirtbags that are ruining the country.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Democrats lust for power exceeds their greed for $. The party of open borders and big government, KKK, slavery and high taxes should implode.
    All Defense!

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Before this thread derails into what-aboutism can we just agree that both parties have been playing us against each other for over 60 years?


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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by 43Hitman View Post
    Before this thread derails into what-aboutism can we just agree that both parties have been playing us against each other for over 60 years?
    I can agree that big government sucks and that all news is fake news.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by 43Hitman View Post
    Before this thread derails into what-aboutism can we just agree that both parties have been playing us against each other for over 60 years?
    Absolutely. And both parties rig the system so that they are the only viable options. They also conspire behind the scenes for cash and influence.

    Having said that, both parties are not equally unhinged these days. The Democratic Party has wandered off into the weeds like a drunk on a bicycle, leaving their core constituency without representation. The Republicans have all the problems they've had previously, but at least they're stable.
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    The impeachment hoax is all but over. What's next on the liberals' anti-Trump agenda?
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    The impeachment hoax is all but over. What's next on the liberals' anti-Trump agenda?
    My guess is that they'll come up with a victim from 35 years ago that was #metoo'd with no evidence, only vague accusations
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    The whole 'impeachment' thing is hilarious. The Dems shot themselves in the foot and then proceeded to hobble around on a "victory" lap.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    What ever party he truly belongs to.... no matter what I, you or anyone else thinks of him.... he gets things done. I'll be voting for him again.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Trump isn't conservative *or* liberal. He's a populist nationalist. If he had run as an independent, I think conservatives wouldn't like him as much and liberals would hate him less.
    Interesting how partisanship skews people's perceptions...
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Trump isn't conservative *or* liberal. He's a populist nationalist. If he had run as an independent, I think conservatives wouldn't like him as much and liberals would hate him less.
    Interesting how partisanship skews people's perceptions...
    I think that's accurate. I don't like the man..... I never did, even before his political aspirations. I don't care about his personal life or anything he has done in the past . I only care what he does as POTUS of my country. I'm satisfied with the results so far. I'll vote for him again.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    I think that's accurate. I don't like the man..... I never did, even before his political aspirations. I don't care about his personal life or anything he has done in the past . I only care what he does as POTUS of my country. I'm satisfied with the results so far. I'll vote for him again.
    Indeed. I voted third party last time, but this time I will definitely be voting for him.


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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    I think that's accurate. I don't like the man..... I never did, even before his political aspirations. I don't care about his personal life or anything he has done in the past . I only care what he does as POTUS of my country. I'm satisfied with the results so far. I'll vote for him again.
    I think there are a lot of people who think the same as you. A lot of people who didn't vote for him last time will this time.
    When the early results started coming in in 2016, It became apparent that all of the polls were wrong and they were going to lose. Bill Clinton was said to remark "I guess Brexit was real after all". Well... just a week ago, the Brits held an election and the Tories absolutely curb- stomped Labor. The biggest landslide for the Conservatives since 1935... Now they have a clear mandate to pull out of the EU in less than a month.
    The left,the Dems, the media, the pundits... They still don't get it: This 'national populism' thing is real, and it's bigger than ever.
    Donald Trump has never been my cup of tea, but even I've considered voting for him this time... if only to spite the a-holes who make him out to be the next Hitler. Dude's actually done quite well in his first term; better than I ever expected him to. Credit where it's due.
    Not to say that I will vote for him this time, but... As Chris Rock would say: "I understand".

    And back on the subject at hand, who do the Dems have that can hope to compete with Trump? That entire field is a freakin' clown show! The only one there I'd even remotely consider voting for is Tulsi Gabbard, and the Party doesn't even want her near the debate stage, let alone the nomination. The only viable candidates they have are Joe Biden (creepy gaffe factory with a mountain of dirt), Bernie Sanders (ancient socialist with health problems), and Elizabeth Warren (lefty opportunist with major credibility issues). None of these people is even a light workout for Trump in a general election. If something doesn't change in a hurry, he's gonna nuke 'em from orbit in 2020.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    I think there are a lot of people who think the same as you. A lot of people who didn't vote for him last time will this time.
    When the early results started coming in in 2016, It became apparent that all of the polls were wrong and they were going to lose. Bill Clinton was said to remark "I guess Brexit was real after all". Well... just a week ago, the Brits held an election and the Tories absolutely curb- stomped Labor. The biggest landslide for the Conservatives since 1935... Now they have a clear mandate to pull out of the EU in less than a month.
    The left,the Dems, the media, the pundits... They still don't get it: This 'national populism' thing is real, and it's bigger than ever.
    Donald Trump has never been my cup of tea, but even I've considered voting for him this time... if only to spite the a-holes who make him out to be the next Hitler. Dude's actually done quite well in his first term; better than I ever expected him to. Credit where it's due.
    Not to say that I will vote for him this time, but... As Chris Rock would say: "I understand".

    And back on the subject at hand, who do the Dems have that can hope to compete with Trump? That entire field is a freakin' clown show! The only one there I'd even remotely consider voting for is Tulsi Gabbard, and the Party doesn't even want her near the debate stage, let alone the nomination. The only viable candidates they have are Joe Biden (creepy gaffe factory with a mountain of dirt), Bernie Sanders (ancient socialist with health problems), and Elizabeth Warren (lefty opportunist with major credibility issues). None of these people is even a light workout for Trump in a general election. If something doesn't change in a hurry, he's gonna nuke 'em from orbit in 2020.

    I think Hillary is going to run for POTUS. She'll wait until it's down to 2 or 3 and announce her candidacy once most of the debates are over. Something something 'I can't just stand by and watch us lose to DT, I love this country to much to let him win again'. It will spark up the Dems and she'll try to ride that momentum into the White House.
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by smokin3000gt View Post
    I think Hillary is going to run for POTUS. She'll wait until it's down to 2 or 3 and announce her candidacy once most of the debates are over. Something something 'I can't just stand by and watch us lose to DT, I love this country to much to let him win again'. It will spark up the Dems and she'll try to ride that momentum into the White House.
    It'd be hilarious (no pun intended) if she did. She lost last time before he had every advantage, the powers- that- be were backing her, and her dirt was (mostly) under wraps. Nobody wants her around now, least of all the Dems. She'd get slaughtered.
    But perhaps that's the best outcome for the Dems in the short term; they can blame the loss on her instead of themselves...
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The intriguing thing is that EVERYONE that talks about this in the context of US politics is wrong. As the article correctly points out, almost no one on the American left is talking about nationalizing industries and many of the core elements of actual socialism. Government control over the means of production and all that. Yet both the American Left and Right continue to bang on about socialism or democratic socialism or what not.

    To me, it seems that the author of the article nailed it. It is all still capitalism. It is just different flavors of capitalism. But since we are not ever, nor have we ever been, able to have honest, reasoned, and fact based debates about economic priorities in our political system -- we end up with the nonsense that passes for "analysis" and "debate" currently.

    Maybe we should all just go back to dueling. Get some more Hamilton-Burr style economic dispute settling.
    Yes and no. When they start banging on about single-payer health care, they are talking about a true socialist system that is in government control. They may not know that's what they're talking about, that's the only way single-payer systems can work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The funny part is that the healthcare issue in the states is a self-inflicted wound that is all wrapped up in the second world war, taxes, labor shortages, and a whole mess of other stuff -- https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...224-story.html

    Without some unintended consequences of (possibly) short-sighted war-time laws, we would probably have a European style national healthcare system.

    I have heard from a few friends living in "nordic socialism" that one of the main drawbacks is how much the the tax man is into your pocket each check and how stagnant the labor market can be. But I have not really read up on or pursued the issue to see if this is broadly true or a "your experience may vary" kind of thing. I would also be very interested to know that once we back out all the stuff that we pay for as individuals in the States if it balances out the up-front taxation of wages that takes place (healthcare, education, insert variety of other social benefits here)?
    I would doubt we'd end up with a European style system. That's because there are too many variables here that European nations do not have to deal with. Population size is one of them. The overload on a single-payer system would crush it. A second one is land mass. What we see in Canada is that you must have regional hospitals to make it viable. However, regional hospitals might be hundreds of miles away or more. That could mean you can't get your thumb set after it was broken until you drive a few hundred miles to a larger city all because the system has designated that your smaller area doesn't need an anesthesiologist (Yeah, that's a bit specific. It's what happened to me in Canada when I was a kid).

    I can't tell you how many times I've from someone in my family they're having to fly to Vancouver BC for medical reasons. Sad thing is, they're flying there from other small cities that in the US, the same sized cities would have multiple facilities for handling the situation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Sad thing is Bernie, the 79 year old socialist probably stands the best chance because he has a base and a legion of supporters. However, socialism is a losing platform and that needs to defeat it is effective messaging
    Be careful of getting what you wish for. Jimmy Carter, in the 1980 election cycle was rooting for Ronald Reagan to get the nomination because he thought Reagan was too conservative and it would make the elections easier for Carter.


  30. #30
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Yes and no. When they start banging on about single-payer health care, they are talking about a true socialist system that is in government control. They may not know that's what they're talking about, that's the only way single-payer systems can work.



    I would doubt we'd end up with a European style system. That's because there are too many variables here that European nations do not have to deal with. Population size is one of them. The overload on a single-payer system would crush it. A second one is land mass. What we see in Canada is that you must have regional hospitals to make it viable. However, regional hospitals might be hundreds of miles away or more. That could mean you can't get your thumb set after it was broken until you drive a few hundred miles to a larger city all because the system has designated that your smaller area doesn't need an anesthesiologist (Yeah, that's a bit specific. It's what happened to me in Canada when I was a kid).

    I can't tell you how many times I've from someone in my family they're having to fly to Vancouver BC for medical reasons. Sad thing is, they're flying there from other small cities that in the US, the same sized cities would have multiple facilities for handling the situation.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Be careful of getting what you wish for. Jimmy Carter, in the 1980 election cycle was rooting for Ronald Reagan to get the nomination because he thought Reagan was too conservative and it would make the elections easier for Carter.
    I dunno. States are the size of countries that make it work. So string together a series of systems into a network or whatever. I'm sure their are pros and cons of it all.

    I'm kinda confused about your definition of the world "socialism". Is any country that has national healthcare a socialist country? This is literally the first list I pulled up and I have not really considered it deeply (https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/all-...are-2017-03-07) but I struggle to call many, if not all, of the countries on that list "socialist". I get that the "nationalization" of an industry is kind of a hallmark of socialism, but we aren't talking about oil, natural gas, or durable goods manufacture here. My background on all this stuff is fuzzy because it has been so long since I studied it, but wouldn't shifting healthcare to a single payer system administered by the government not preclude a give country from being considered a capitalist enterprise?

    Or is it that you are isolating things and any system where the government runs it is a socialist one? Because, yeah, I can see that. But currently the US Government runs/regulates/administers all kinds of stuff and nobody cries into their beer about the creeping socialist takeover or whatever (by no means is that what I think your post was doing). And that was kinda what my original thoughts were aimed at. Setting up a single payer national healthcare system is not really a trojan horse to overthrow capitalism or anything. Heck, it already exists for old people and veterans; and that hasn't ushered in a socialist hellscape. I realize you have not attempted to take up that line of thought, but it was a bit of a straw man that I was responding to. In general, American politics likes to set up binary debates between massive extremes with absolutely no room for context or nuance. I believe that there are plenty of points along the spectrum between "unrestrained capitalism" and "Venezuela style socialism"; but we tend to skip over all the stops along the way and contrast those two by yelling at one another instead of discussing actually useful points.

    For instance, your thoughts on the scalar issues related to sheer geographic distance associated with a national healthcare system are really good ones and important to consider. Yet whenever I see the national not national health system debated on TV, the internet, podcasts, whatever -- no one talks about these actual issues it is all just random emotional buzzwords from both sides. I literally have no idea if single payer would be better or not, but I do know that the current system sucks for a staggering number of people and I truly believe having continued national conversations about how to improve it would be a great idea. Sad that never really takes place.

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