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Thread: What has happened to the Democratic party?

  1. #61
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Be careful of getting what you wish for. Jimmy Carter, in the 1980 election cycle was rooting for Ronald Reagan to get the nomination because he thought Reagan was too conservative and it would make the elections easier for Carter.
    For what it's worth, I do think Bernie has the best chance in 2020 amongst the GOD AWFUL Democratic field. He has the most fervent base of supporters. Guys like Bloomberg (who doesn't even have any delegates) and Biden don't inspire anybody and will just piss off the Bernie supporters who will feel their man was cheated by the Democratic establishment again (which may be true and probably would be if Bloomberg somehow gets it). However, I am just not sure socialism is a winning platform and I don't see one Democratic candidate that is worth anything or one who will match Trump's ability to excite his base

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    So the choices are the old out of touch delusional rich guy or the old out of touch delusional rich guy? Cool. Can't wait to vote.

  3. #63
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    What happened? They went far left.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Different situation. The economy was trash, Carter was never known for his political acumen, and he grossly underestimated Reagan's oratory skills and stage presence. Plus that whole Iran hostage crisis thing...
    I'm not losing any sleep over the idea of "President Sanders". Aside from him being too far left and Trump having the incumbent advantage, there's a whole laundry list of problems with him:
    -His base is a tiny minority who make a lot of noise but don't vote.
    -He's an economic change candidate during a good economy.
    -He can't explain how he'd actually fulfill his promises.
    -He's old.
    -He has health problems.
    -His own supporters keep making him look weak onstage.
    -His own supporters keep making him look like a Marxist revolutionary offstage.
    -His spokesperson is Alexandria Occasio Cortez.
    -His spokesperson keeps going off script and saying loopy shit on his behalf.
    Funny thing... I heard a list twice as long four years ago about why Trump wouldn't be elected. I'm still hearing lists about why Trump won't be re-elected. All I'm saying is, be careful what one wishes for.

    Now, do I think Trump will win? Yes? Because he's a great president? Absolutely not. He'll win because incumbents win the second term if the preceding president wasn't from the same party. The only time that didn't happen was Carter, and that was a perfect storm that caused him to lose. The electorate was his right up until the last week or so. Also hard to forget that Anderson took about 6 percent of the votes.


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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Looks like the only viable candidate who could've actually won dropped out yesterday. Now it's down to the wild- eyed socialist with a heart condition, the senile creepy uncle gaffe factory, the billionaire authoritarian that Democrats hate, and a few also- rans.
    Tomorrow is Super Tuesday, so I'll be over here like
    Fun fact: If Bill Clinton were to announce his candidacy today, he'd be the youngest candidate on the debate stage.
    Another fun fact: If Pete Buttigeig runs for President in 2060, he will still be *younger* than Bernie or Joe Biden are right now. 2060! Mind = blown...
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Craic,
    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Funny thing... I heard a list twice as long four years ago about why Trump wouldn't be elected.
    Not from me, ya didn't. I'm the annoying dude who makes predictions that everyone hates, but they wind up being correct. If I'm wrong this time, it'll be the first.
    Difference between Trump and Bernie is that Trump was up against the least- electable Democrat since Carter, while Bernie (assuming he gets the nod) will be up against the strongest incumbent republican since Reagan. I mean... it's not completely impossible for a pomeranian to defeat a pit bull, but I'm not losing any sleep over the likelihood of it happening.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  7. #67

    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Craic,

    Not from me, ya didn't. I'm the annoying dude who makes predictions that everyone hates, but they wind up being correct. If I'm wrong this time, it'll be the first.
    Difference between Trump and Bernie is that Trump was up against the least- electable Democrat since Carter, while Bernie (assuming he gets the nod) will be up against the strongest incumbent republican since Reagan. I mean... it's not completely impossible for a pomeranian to defeat a pit bull, but I'm not losing any sleep over the likelihood of it happening.
    Well, historically, Bush (the son) was more electable by one percent at this point in his career, and he had a higher rating coming into the election year as well, so I wouldn't go that far with Trump. Again, I'm not saying Trump will lose. I'm just saying be careful what you wish for. It may come true.


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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Well, the Democratic establishment is really pushing for Biden now. If he's the nominee, he's a sure fire loser. The Sanders people won't go for him and he would offer less than even Hillary did. Of course the Dems won't learn their lesson. It harkens back to 2012 when the republicans didn't learn their lesson from McCain 08 and pushed a McCain clone in Romney and turned what should have been a clear victory into a clear defeat in 2012

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Until the dems realize that Trump winning the Oval was a message, not a fluke they will continue to dig their heels in and step on their dicks.
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  10. #70

    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by smokin3000gt View Post
    Until the dems realize that Trump winning the Oval was a message, not a fluke they will continue to dig their heels in and step on their dicks.
    The problem with claiming it was a message is that under half votes that were cast chose him. That's not a very loud or powerful message since almost any GOP candidate would get almost as many votes every year. What should resonate is that Trump broke the Democratic stronghold in the rust belt and sucked the delegates away from Clinton. But, that had nothing to do with his bluster or anything like that and everything to do with his promise to reduce free trade and move back into a protective mode in certain areas.

    Claiming the last election was a message is like the Dems claiming a mandate when Obama won in 2012, although it was a narrower election than 2008 (for which he also claimed a mandate).


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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    The problem with claiming it was a message is that under half votes that were cast chose him. That's not a very loud or powerful message since almost any GOP candidate would get almost as many votes every year. What should resonate is that Trump broke the Democratic stronghold in the rust belt and sucked the delegates away from Clinton. But, that had nothing to do with his bluster or anything like that and everything to do with his promise to reduce free trade and move back into a protective mode in certain areas.

    Claiming the last election was a message is like the Dems claiming a mandate when Obama won in 2012, although it was a narrower election than 2008 (for which he also claimed a mandate).
    Very true. If the young voters go big for the Dems, they likely win. If they stay home and people over 55 vote for Trump, he wins.

    At least that’s all the models I’ve seen.

    All the leading candidates are flawed and problematic. It’s gonna go to the party that turns out the vote. Right now, that’s the incumbent.

    If the economy slides and the public stays upset over the response to corona, it could shift. I suspect that won’t occur.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?


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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?



    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Joe Biden- He puts the Dem in dementia


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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Very true. If the young voters go big for the Dems, they likely win. If they stay home and people over 55 vote for Trump, he wins.

    At least that’s all the models I’ve seen.

    All the leading candidates are flawed and problematic. It’s gonna go to the party that turns out the vote. Right now, that’s the incumbent.

    If the economy slides and the public stays upset over the response to corona, it could shift. I suspect that won’t occur.
    The young voters didn't show up for Bernie on Super Tuesday. I don't picture them showing up for Joe Biden in November.
    Besides, every election is about the middle, not the fringes. Trump has solidified his base from last cycle and is digging even further into the supply of traditionally Dem voters.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    The young voters didn't show up for Bernie on Super Tuesday. I don't picture them showing up for Joe Biden in November.
    Besides, every election is about the middle, not the fringes. Trump has solidified his base from last cycle and is digging even further into the supply of traditionally Dem voters.
    That’s basically what I was saying. Obama rode record young voter turnout to the White House twice. It does happen, but none of these clowns looks able to replicate that.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Mojo,
    My point is that with all the inroads Trump has made into the traditional Dem base, a high youth turnout wouldn't be enough. Obama did capitalize on the youth turnout, but he also had minorities, union voters, the rust belt, blue collar labor, and registered independents on his side. Trump has taken a big chunk of those and solidified his standing with them. The Dems are going to have trouble winning any races unless they get those voters back.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  18. #78
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Mojo,
    My point is that with all the inroads Trump has made into the traditional Dem base, a high youth turnout wouldn't be enough. Obama did capitalize on the youth turnout, but he also had minorities, union voters, the rust belt, blue collar labor, and registered independents on his side. Trump has taken a big chunk of those and solidified his standing with them. The Dems are going to have trouble winning any races unless they get those voters back.
    Shmaybe?

    Potential voters that approve of Trump is still polling as the minority. However that 35-45% represents the vast majority of people who actually show up and vote.

    Any challenger has to meld together a coalition of incredible unlikely political bedfellows AND turn them out in historically large numbers. The sheer number of votes are on the table for a challenger to gather up and ride into office. But, almost certainly, not one of the current flawed challengers.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    What has happened to the democratic party ? That is the question ? Wow where to start . Their message seems to be to tear apart our country and our history and rewrite our history like it never even happened. But !!!!!!! only the history that they deem agreeable to there cause . How can they accomplish that ? Well they can start by tearing down statues (except certain ones) of course. They can also supply the necessary funding from various Global corporations to what amounts in (most) part to domestic terrorist entities of which i will not mention due to the fact most can not differentiate between legitimate and the non . But that doesn't matter if its legit or not because by they're design it is debilitating to the country as a whole and helps to separate a portion of the nation and try to draw in more votes for their cause , which in my opinion is to further reduce our liberties by creating more ways for them to accomplish their agenda . Including rewriting our constitution by diminishing our rights as citizens protected from the exact same thing they are trying to do .
    We all know to fix a problem we have to create even more complex ones right ? Their party seems to be fueled by hatred centered on one individual . I mean searing , nation splitting contempt for a single person . I never thought i would see such horrific and un-unifying acts like i have been witnessing . I think i'm beginning to see the light though . They will be exposed as to what they are up to very soon . I mean exposed to those who do not already know , there are some who already see .
    Would you buy a car or maybe a house without first seeing it up close and personal ? I know i ain't that @#$%&%$ dumb . That would be as stupid as voting for someone i can't even see or hear . But lucky we have (history) on O'Biden's past performances for the the last 47 years he's been living in the swamp . Lets see how they try to tear down that history . They have lived off the votes of the people they are seeking to help .Most damaging has been at the local and state level . Hows that working out for the ones who voted for their party .
    That is my view on the question of (What has happened to the democratic party) I could go on and on but i won't .
    Two bags are guarenteed to fit all sizes ,or your money back. If you are not completely satisfied call 1-800-GOO-DHELL We show 5 bags to choose from,most problems only need 2 bags .

  20. #80
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by cold-hard-steel View Post
    What has happened to the democratic party ? That is the question ? Wow where to start . Their message seems to be to tear apart our country and our history and rewrite our history like it never even happened. But !!!!!!! only the history that they deem agreeable to there cause . How can they accomplish that ? Well they can start by tearing down statues (except certain ones) of course. They can also supply the necessary funding from various Global corporations to what amounts in (most) part to domestic terrorist entities of which i will not mention due to the fact most can not differentiate between legitimate and the non . But that doesn't matter if its legit or not because by they're design it is debilitating to the country as a whole and helps to separate a portion of the nation and try to draw in more votes for their cause , which in my opinion is to further reduce our liberties by creating more ways for them to accomplish their agenda . Including rewriting our constitution by diminishing our rights as citizens protected from the exact same thing they are trying to do .
    We all know to fix a problem we have to create even more complex ones right ? Their party seems to be fueled by hatred centered on one individual . I mean searing , nation splitting contempt for a single person . I never thought i would see such horrific and un-unifying acts like i have been witnessing . I think i'm beginning to see the light though . They will be exposed as to what they are up to very soon . I mean exposed to those who do not already know , there are some who already see .
    Would you buy a car or maybe a house without first seeing it up close and personal ? I know i ain't that @#$%&%$ dumb . That would be as stupid as voting for someone i can't even see or hear . But lucky we have (history) on O'Biden's past performances for the the last 47 years he's been living in the swamp . Lets see how they try to tear down that history . They have lived off the votes of the people they are seeking to help .Most damaging has been at the local and state level . Hows that working out for the ones who voted for their party .
    That is my view on the question of (What has happened to the democratic party) I could go on and on but i won't .
    This is a good post. It truly is disgusting what the left has degenerated into. Cancel Culture idiots in particular are probably simultaneously the stupidest and the most repugnant group of people in history. They don't care what they're cancelling or what they're tearing down and the meaning behind it, they just want to shut things down because that's the only way these people will ever feel important and accomplished in life. It's quite sad. These people tore down a statue of Ulysses S Grant who helped defeat the confederates. Why? Probably because they are too committed to destroying things to care that Grant helped defeat the Confederates. Truly unsettling times indeed. And then the Democratic political party is only focused on defeating Trump and yet they saw fit to nominate a dementia sufferer who can't even string together a coherent sentence anymore and who probably doesn't even know what he is running for half the time

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    This is a good post. It truly is disgusting what the left has degenerated into. Cancel Culture idiots in particular are probably simultaneously the stupidest and the most repugnant group of people in history. They don't care what they're cancelling or what they're tearing down and the meaning behind it, they just want to shut things down because that's the only way these people will ever feel important and accomplished in life. It's quite sad.
    It is pretty clear what cancel culture is all about, although the ones doing it don't see it, and are so oblivious to how they look that they actually loudly accuse their opponents of doing it instead:

    "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."
    If your ideas are so popular that you have to force people into following them, and shout down your opponents or silence them through fear, then they aren't very good ideas.

    But I don't think that matters to the people running this effort, because they want one thing - power - and they don't care how. Add to that the fact that their vehicle for attempting to gain power is by playing on their adherents' desire for revenge, and now you have created a dangerous and incredibly destructive atmosphere. I can only hope they get pummeled into oblivion for it in November.

    As for Biden, he clearly is not the candidate and will not be running the show if he somehow wins, and neither will the vice president. He might as well just be a D with a blank name - vote blindly for The Party to let them do whatever they want. The country would be run by Party bosses and bureaucrats and political consultants. You know how, when they shut down the country and wanted to vote on a relief program, and suddenly the Democrats just magically had a 1,200-page bill ready overnight, jam-packed with leftist agenda items? Those people. Best case, you would get a shadow government run by a pissed off and vengeance-minded Obama. No thanks to all of that.

    I think they have shown their hand too early and a bit too eagerly, because many are activists at heart and they can't help themselves - and in doing so, they have alienated a large cross-section of the public who are aware of it to varying degrees. If the past three months haven't been a wake-up call to the great majority of people, that is truly frightening.

    But for the first time in my lifetime, there also appears to be a legitimate chance of widespread cheating in the election, which would be the worst possible outcome. A legitimate change of ideas, people handle one way or another. But a stolen or contested election would be an open invitation to chaos and possibly armed confrontation. But that may actually be the last-ditch plan. Go all-in on one last throw of the dice for socialism, and hope the unpredictability plays out in your favor. Would have sounded crazy six months or a year ago, but now sounds more like one far-fetched option in a sea of far-fetched options. I sure hope that isn't the one.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    The"concrete cobbler" Array title="cold-hard-steel has a brilliant future"> cold-hard-steel's Avatar

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    I found this very interesting in light of everything . I think it is something everyone should see if they have not already done so .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHfCubOa_BU
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    What has happened to the presidency?

    It’s got to be more than name calling, bullying, not tolerating dissent within your administration, childish behavior, snarky comments, promoting division, alienating allies, belittling those that disagree with you...just to name a few.

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    I only can pray that the truth can reach more people . I think it was George Armistead said or either quoted that "Falsehood will travel the length and breadth of the nation while truth is still putting on it's boots".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FrancoLambert View Post
    What has happened to the presidency?

    It’s got to be more than name calling, bullying, not tolerating dissent within your administration, childish behavior, snarky comments, promoting division, alienating allies, belittling those that disagree with you...just to name a few.
    Oh you mean like "Pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon " Just to name one .
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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    I have not nor will i ever bow to political correctness . I t does not exist . Nothing is correct in politics . That is from the leftest movement so they can create more laws to force citizens to conform to their marxist ambitions.
    Two bags are guarenteed to fit all sizes ,or your money back. If you are not completely satisfied call 1-800-GOO-DHELL We show 5 bags to choose from,most problems only need 2 bags .

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrancoLambert View Post
    What has happened to the presidency?

    It’s got to be more than name calling, bullying, not tolerating dissent within your administration, childish behavior, snarky comments, promoting division, alienating allies, belittling those that disagree with you...just to name a few.
    What has happened to the presidency is that liberals constantly throw emotional temper tantrums over superficial nonsense, and hope that others will confuse that with some actual failure of policy or results.

    At this time four years ago, I was undecided about who or what was going to be the best for the country, but the Democrats have been outright disgusting since then and have never let up. The smug liberal on the internet is the most effective pro-Trump campaign message in the world. Yuck.

    You are literally campaigning for the guy every time you do that, without even realizing it.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    What has happened to the presidency is that liberals constantly throw emotional temper tantrums over superficial nonsense, and hope that others will confuse that with some actual failure of policy or results.

    At this time four years ago, I was undecided about who or what was going to be the best for the country, but the Democrats have been outright disgusting since then and have never let up. The smug liberal on the internet is the most effective pro-Trump campaign message in the world. Yuck.

    You are literally campaigning for the guy every time you do that, without even realizing it.
    I am one to buy into what your pointing out.If you ever talk to me you are talking to someone who never exercised their right to vote . For that reason i've never engaged in political discussions. I believe if you don't vote you should shut the @#$% up .There was never anyone i thought would do much anyway other than spew bullshit like all politicians seem to do and then not do anything they said they would .
    However after what i have witnessed in the last few weeks and the destruction of my "country" too,i registered to vote and will be proud to negate at least one of the culprits who want to diminish this great country and reduce it to rubble in the name of hatred centered around one individual because they couldn't win against someone like the Trump . They have done nothing but hamper his administration at every turn. In words the commander and chief might like "those whiney little son of a bitches". So yes they did add one more vote against their little "CHOP" based tyrant headquarters . And not to mention you can't contract kung flu when you are peacefully protesting, and not socially distancing, but you can if you have a rally. What a disgusting display to put on for all the world to see . Oh and i forgot to ask if anyone could tell me where all the millions of dollars from Chinese owned companies like NIKE are going to. And who is following the trail of said millions?
    Two bags are guarenteed to fit all sizes ,or your money back. If you are not completely satisfied call 1-800-GOO-DHELL We show 5 bags to choose from,most problems only need 2 bags .

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    What has happened to the presidency is that liberals constantly throw emotional temper tantrums over superficial nonsense, and hope that others will confuse that with some actual failure of policy or results.
    What has happened to the presidency is that Trump throws emotional temper tantrums over superficial nonsense and hopes that will take the publics mind off our ragging unemployment, COVID 19, Boltons book, and his own colossal inadequacies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    What has happened to the presidency is that liberals constantly throw emotional temper tantrums over superficial nonsense, and hope that others will confuse that with some actual failure of policy or results.

    At this time four years ago, I was undecided about who or what was going to be the best for the country, but the Democrats have been outright disgusting since then and have never let up. The smug liberal on the internet is the most effective pro-Trump campaign message in the world. Yuck.

    You are literally campaigning for the guy every time you do that, without even realizing it.
    Gee, I wonder who you are most effectively campaigning for?

  29. #89
    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    What happened to the Democratic Party? It has become a hybrid socialist party. There have been 2 extremes that we have witnessed in OUR limited lifetimes on this Earth. The extreme far right Nazis and the extreme far left socialists/communists. Neither is where any of us want this country to go. I do not believe either side of the aisle wants either extreme but both point across and scream the other wants this extreme. I live in a 'RED' state and no matter how I vote this state and it's electoral college votes will go to the right. And I honestly believe that is the correct way for it to work. The majority voice decides the overall direction. But this election seems to invite division however it plays out. If Trump wins we get a continuation of the current state of divisiveness. If Biden wins we get the same divisiveness but from a different angle, and still nothing "REAL" actually gets done to move the country forward. Good luck to whichever 'side' wins and maybe you will use some of your new found electoral power to do some good and not further divide the American people. But for those of you arguing for one side or the other, please just stop, we already know you are all full of shit.

  30. #90
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: What has happened to the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    What happened to the Democratic Party? It has become a hybrid socialist party. There have been 2 extremes that we have witnessed in OUR limited lifetimes on this Earth. The extreme far right Nazis and the extreme far left socialists/communists. Neither is where any of us want this country to go. I do not believe either side of the aisle wants either extreme but both point across and scream the other wants this extreme. I live in a 'RED' state and no matter how I vote this state and it's electoral college votes will go to the right. And I honestly believe that is the correct way for it to work. The majority voice decides the overall direction. But this election seems to invite division however it plays out. If Trump wins we get a continuation of the current state of divisiveness. If Biden wins we get the same divisiveness but from a different angle, and still nothing "REAL" actually gets done to move the country forward. Good luck to whichever 'side' wins and maybe you will use some of your new found electoral power to do some good and not further divide the American people. But for those of you arguing for one side or the other, please just stop, we already know you are all full of shit.
    I don't think most "normal" people want extremism, and a big problem is that the current state of affairs does not offer any very good place for those in the center to go.

    However, another unfortunate thing that has happened is that what was considered a "centrist" or "moderate" position not long ago is now labeled as "right-wing," or even "alt-right" or "white nationalist," simply because the hard-left activist class has screamed it loudly enough and often enough, supported by like-minded figures in the media. It is another attempt at a forced culture shift, that has largely been successful. So that is a big reason behind the enormous polarization.

    Having said all that, I have never, ever seen anything even remotely approaching the level of pure undisguised hatred currently coming from the Democratic left. It has gone past mere disagreement into malicious, revenge-minded hostility. Not long ago, I used to think what everybody thought: "I'm sure if we hear each other out and are willing to compromise, we can work out most of our differences, both sides could learn something from the other," etc.

    Not anymore, though. These people have lost it. Gone completely off the deep end. What they want is dangerous, toxic, spiteful, and worthless to humanity. They let everyone see their true face, and it is ugly beyond comprehension.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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