Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
So the Steelers lost an elite/diva WR and a potential rushing champion from their roster... My question is when was the last time a team with an elite/diva WR won the Super Bowl? As far as rushing champions, I think the last one was TD for the Broncos over 20 years ago.
Honestly, what does the past history have to do with present day football team? Human beings shape their attitudes based upon their past experiences, but the past actually is no predictor of the future.
The question is really ....does losing the best WR in the NFL and a top 3 RB in the NFL make your talent level better or worse? Then, is it possible that less talented teams with better teamwork and attitudes can perform better, than those with more talent but not as good teamwork/strategy/effort?
Its possible the Steelers can be better than last season, but something tells me that not all the divas are gone from the current team, so who knows.
Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
I believe that recent past is a strong indicator of the near future. The NFL has been and will continue to be a QB driven league.
QB and Defense. No team has won a Super Bowl without these. We have always had the former, hopefully we can get back the latter this year.
Even Michael Irvin and Emmit Smith were a supporting cast to Aikman and a stout defense.
Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute">
Julio Jones SHOULD have a SB win. Marvin Harrison got one. Is Gronk considered elite? I understand the point of the question but those great Steelers teams ended with a bunch of gold jackets too. No, an elite level WR is not a must have to win and have success. But it doesn’t always hurt either. That’s why the process is so important.
Well FWIW, the year after we traded Santonio we went to the Super Bowl.
The season after we traded Wallace, we went 8-8. But the previous season with him was also an 8-8 season (at the time Wallace was the man)
So IDK, predicting our demise because we lost AB is overblown. I'm not going to say we 'lost' Bell because we didn't have him last year.
If you mean "the #1 receiver in the league who also happened to be throwing a bitch fit at the same time," that's only happened twice before, and both of the teams they ended up on went to the Super Bowl, although they both lost.
Recent history is a little difficult since there are so many seasons with no champion, but in the years when somebody DID win the Super Bowl, quite often they had an "elite" receiver, or at the very least someone who was having a career season.
If you're trying to talk yourself into thinking AB was what was holding us back, that's just nonsense.
I would say if you want to gauge whether having a top receiver helps or hurts your chances of winning a title, start at Jerry Rice and go down the list of career receiving yards:
https://www.pro-football-reference.c...yds_career.htm
Every one of the top 10 has at least BEEN to a Super Bowl and played a large part in getting there, along with probably 15 of the top 20. The further you go down the list, the more sporadic it gets. Pretty solid evidence there, I think.
See you Space Cowboy ...
I agree. We can look for isolated incidences of rushing champions like Zeke Elliot, Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, Chris Johnson, DeMarco Murray, Shady McCoy and say that they didn't have a decent enough QB, or decent enough team around them to compete for a Super Bowl. We can similarly look at top 3 WR's and say they didn't have a good enough run game or defense to get to a Super Bowl.Originally Posted by Born2Steel
Truth is that losing a top 3 WR and a top 3 RB doesn't make your talent level of the team better. Talent + Willingness + Opportunity = Performance.
If you have less talent, then you need more willingness to be better and work better as a team. I think the Steelers had more talent last year, but obviously several were not willing to work as part of the team and at times not given the opportunity to produce results.
2000 Ravens. Defense. No QB at all.
2002 Buccaneers. Defense. Barely a QB.
1987 Redskins. Defense. No QB
Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
A great coach like Gibbs, Parcells or Belichick helps too... Putting people in position to succeed.
Holmes and especially Wallace just aren’t on the same level as Brown. You’re losing a Top-2 WR in the NFL and possibly one of the best receivers in the history of the NFL. A guy that’s been compared to Jerry Rice on numerous occasions. Jerry Rice went to the Raiders and they wound up eventually in the Super Bowl...Jerry Rice went to the Seahawks. They didn’t make the Super Bowl.
You get to the Super Bowl with a combination of talent and production. It doesn’t matter what position that talent comes from as long as the production and result is the same. Bell and AB, personalities and fan biases aside, their talent is never a good thing to lose.
Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
Two positives: 1) their me-first attitudes were detrimental, and 2) I believe that in both cases, we got the best parts of their careers. I'd expect a decline in both over the next 1-2 years.
there are always a couple outliers, such as Trent Dilfer playing mistake free. And you could argue that Doug Williams was a great QB that year.
No team is doing what the Ravens and Bucs did back in the day.
1985 Da Bears. Jim McMahon (lol)
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I thought the Jagoffs were a real possibility in 2017, if they pulled it off vs the Pats they were my pick to win the SB. But yeah winning in this era on defense is much more difficult, with the rules catering to high scoring offenses.
I agree it takes a QB and at least a solid defense. Problem is, the Steelers insistence on staying with Keith Butler is preventing them from getting the latter
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2015 Broncos were all defense and no QB (unless you count about 5% of Peyton Manning as a QB based on name brand)
Even handing the football off from 1st and goal at the 3 yard line instead of running a slant to a WR that gets intercepted by a D lineman is putting people in a better position to succeed. Or not covering AJ Green and Keenan Allen with an ILB. Doesn't have to be at the Parcells, or Gibbs level. Its the OC and DC making lousy calls too that rob others of the opportunity to perform.
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
I agree.
There shouldn't be any more excuses for that this year. Get running back depth and have those big, physical receivers block so that they are a more balanced team. That will protect the defense by keeping them off the field, and toughen the defense up even more with more physical practices.
The 4 a year allowed will be great. Seriously, I think there are only 14 of padded practice sessions allowed by the CBA after camp.
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
AB leaving obviously has a lot more downside than upside.
But FWIW they lost Bell last year. While it impacted the offense that adjustment, for better or worse, has been made.
And the performance on the field was not a diva issue (spoiler alert - it was mostly a CB and ILB issue) except to the extent Ben forcing the ball to AB was an effort to keep Mount AB from erupting more frequently.
^^^^^
This
Throwing the ball inside the 5 on first down was more than an AB issue - whether it was Ben or his poodle Fichtner that was calling that, AB leaving town is not going to change that mindset
I completely agree. We can say its no big deal that Bell and Brown are gone, or say its a big talent loss...but when its 1st and goal from the 3 yard line and there is not consideration to run the ball behind a O line with 3 pro bowlers, you could have had Walter Peyton in the backfield and Jerry Rice running the shallow cross that got intercepted by a D lineman.
Not quite. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Doug Williams were relatively mistake-free and made plays for those teams.
To go far in the playoffs and win a Super Bowl, you need good coaching, a solid quarterback who is mistake-free, and a stout Defense. The Steelers have had one or none of those things recently, or at the moment.
I’m not so sure that you can say the leading rusher of all time was a part of the supporting cast for Aikman.
Those Cowboys teams made their living running the ball.
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