Obviously, you do not understand me. It’s okay. I can spot you, Tee Tee, (or is it Crash) from a mile away. It was worth a try. Oh well.Originally Posted by munchy
Time for me to go enjoy the sunshine & the beach.
Obviously, you do not understand me. It’s okay. I can spot you, Tee Tee, (or is it Crash) from a mile away. It was worth a try. Oh well.
Time for me to go enjoy the sunshine & the beach.
Cowher and Tomlin both in the HOF?
I don’t see it. Both are good coaches, but neither deserve to make it IMO.
But the current habit of generously voting people into any of the HOF’s...players, coaches, football, baseball...maybe they will.
I can’t think of another team that has done so little with the amount of talent at hand.
who else can you blame besides the coach and his coordinators? I don’t think it’s the distractions caused by brown and bells holdout. Seem like excuses to me. Anyway we’ll find out this upcoming season.
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Noll’s Last super bowl was in 79 and he was forced out 10 years later. Tomlin’s last super bowl was likewise in 09.
Manning Era Colts were loaded. What did they win?
1970's Era Raiders were pretty loaded. Even into the 80's.
Warren Moon Oilers were stacked some years.
Kelly and Levy Bills was an embarassingly talented roster
1980's Browns.
Chargers at almost any point in their history - at least in the Rivers era.
Rodgers era Packers have had some very talented rosters.
Tony Dungy Bucs
Marino era Dolphins
Rex Ryan Jets teams were stacked on defense and were not too shabby on offense
Sam Wyche Boomer Esiason Bungles were really darn good
Purple People Eaters Vikings
All the Buddy Ryan Eagles teams were so ludicrously loaded up and down the roster that I don't think anyone understands how they didn't win, well anything. That might have been the most talented defense I've ever seen.
Point is there are a litany of staggeringly talent laden NFL rosters that didn't win snot. It is not a new phenomenon. Is it coaching? Bad Luck? Other dominant teams blocking the path? For instance, how many 1970's era teams do we NOT talk about as NFL fans because the Steelers blocked them from success? How many 1990s teams have we forgotten about because of the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys? How many teams in the Packers run with Lombardi do we forget about because all we remember is the Pack? Bill Walsh 49ers? Etc. Etc. Etc.
I forgot the entire Ray Lewis/Ed Reed era with the Ravens. They one two SBs with one of the greatest defensive rosters of all time. I mean Billick did suck as a coach....but still...IT IS HARD AS BALLS TO WIN IN THE NFL. This is the not the 1960's and 1970's. The line between the best team in the league and the worst squad is almost impossible to measure. The yawning gaps between "good" and "not good" that existed when most of us started watching football have essentially been completely erased.
Might not happen. i was basing it off the fact that both compare favorably with Tony Dungy's achievements and he got in.Cowher and Tomlin both in the HOF?
I don’t see it. Both are good coaches, but neither deserve to make it IMO.
But the current habit of generously voting people into any of the HOF’s...players, coaches, football, baseball...maybe they will.
Pretty much all those teams you mentioned have shown more than the Steelers have in the last 9 - 10 years.
70’s Raiders? The Bills (4 super bowl appearances)? Vikings as well. How many of those others have been to the AFC or NFC conference championships?
Steelers are trying to clean house regarding the locker room which is logical, but at some point, the issue will come back to coaching. Tomlin has had 9-10 years with this team since 09, he’s had just as long to get somewhere as Noll did, post 79, with far more talent.
Up until 2000 there really wasn’t a QB that Cowher could have drafted to make a difference. It would’ve had to be a trade. He definitely need a QB and while he drafted some and tried to address it through free agency, a trade would’ve been best. Upon a quick glance:
1993 he could’ve taken Mark Brunnell over Kevin Henry in the second round and until 2000, the QB market in the draft was pretty much trash.
1994 they took Jim Miller, possibly the most productive QB of that class?
1995 they took Kordell, possibly the most productive QB of that class?
1997 they could’ve taken Jake Plummer over Chad Scott in round one...meh.
1998 they could’ve taken Chuck Batch over Faneca in round one or Brian Griese over Hines Ward in round 3...no on both accounts.
2000 Chad Pennington over Plaxico Burress or Tom Brady (winner) at any point...but then 32 teams passes over Brady around a minimum of “5 times”.
Again, I just glanced quickly and unless I missed something, there really wasn’t much to draft from for a good chunk of Cowher’s early career...
They needed to trade for one...
That was probably all that was on the free agent heap at the time...lol.
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You guys having a pissing contest over Cowher & Tomlin can have them both.
You played me before???
Take morons that cut Johnny Unitas to keep Butch Marchibroda...
Take Chuck Noll as well. Idiot passed on Marino...
You have a valid point, especially if you define "showing something" as less than a SB championship. Either a championship game appearance or super bowl berth. Many of the most vocal critiques of Tomlin era Steelers only use a SB victory as a "success". By that benchmark, there are a slew of teams in every era that were highly talented, well coached, and still didn't "win".
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My goodness. Who the hell was playing QB across the NFL from 1995-2004? Here are all the QBs drafted -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1995&year_max=2004&d raft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&pick_type=overa ll&pos%5B%5D=qb&conference=any&show=all&order_by=d efault
That is a ton of really really really bad QBs.
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"The reason the Steelers didn’t pick Marino had little to do with Marino and more to do with what they believed they had in Bradshaw, or at least what they thought they had in Bradshaw before March 3.
"According to a story by United Press International that appeared on March 23, 1983 and carried the dateline, Shreveport, La., 'Pittsburgh Steelers' star quarterback Terry Bradshaw underwent surgery on his throwing arm under an alias, officials said Tuesday. Charles Boyd, Doctor's Hospital administrator, said the four-time Super Bowl quarterback was admitted March 3 under the name Thomas Brady.'
"The irony of Bradshaw choosing that particular pseudonym notwithstanding, his decision to have a Shreveport orthopedist perform surgery on a 35-year-old man’s elbow, a 35-year-old man whose livelihood is totally dependent on said elbow, shows a frightening lack of judgment.
"If Bradshaw wanted to have the surgery, if he believed the surgery was necessary, either for him to continue playing or for him to have a certain quality of life moving forward, that’s OK. But getting it done in Shreveport under an assumed name, instead of having the best elbow man in America do it – say, Dr. James Andrews, or maybe Dr. Frank Jobe, the guy who invented what is known today as “Tommy John surgery” makes no sense. And did this choice of hospital/surgeon accelerate the arrival of the end of Bradshaw's career
"But nevertheless, 'Thomas Brady' chose to have the procedure done in Shreveport, and he was released from Doctor’s Hospital two days after the surgery with the prognosis that he could start throwing a football in late June."
more here
https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh...ino-117300049/
exactly.
yup, all you have to do is a little research to 'put to rest' that cowher ignored all the good/great qbs during that span. add in the next few years before we drafted ben and there was drew brees............thats it
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that we agree on. i dont understand you.Obviously, you do not understand me. It’s okay. I can spot you, Tee Tee, (or is it Crash) from a mile away. It was worth a try. Oh well.
Time for me to go enjoy the sunshine & the beach.
maybe if i am the guy you are claiming to know i am(from a mile away) you might make sense to me................i guess
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Montana wanted to play for Pittsburgh but Cowher was fine w/O'Donnell and said no.
I would have taken Montana on those 93-94 teams any damn day.
Some people are acting like the only problem with this team was AB and Bell believe that they will be competing for a Super Bowl now that AB is traded and Bell is gone. I think those people will end up disappointed when coaching (which has actually gotten worse), catches up to them again. They are likely to be disappointed when they either miss the playoffs again or if they make the playoffs lose their first playoff game after Keith Butler's defense surrenders 40+ points again
When I was looking, I thought the same...it was pretty bad...lol. Looking through that list, Miller and Stewart weren’t such bad selections considering what the Steelers had the opportunity to draft. Tom Brady really was the only “franchise QB” they had an opportunity to draft besides Ben. Or they could’ve signed Kurt Warner...but that wouldn’t have turned out the same...
And that’s where the problem lies. There were opportunities to get quality free agents and he opted to stick with O’Donnell, Tomczak, Stewart, Miller, etc.
I think the interesting counter-factual is what an aggressive move by Cowher in the middle to late 90's to get a QB could have or would have looked like? In total hindsight a persuasive argument could be made for pursuing a back-up like Maddox or even a guy like Rich Gannon. Additionally, on of my favorite things to kick around is to try and decide if a failed QB prospect was just bad, or if he was in a bad situation. So some of those putrid looking draft picks, if the Steelers of that era would've traded up for them, put them behind a solid o-line and insulated them with good weapons and a high end defense - -who knows, they might have been okay or even good.
We will never know, but Cowher's repeated decision to ignore or devalue the QB position is a totally valid and important critique. Just as Tomlin's decision to stubbornly stick with LB heavy coverage schemes is.
I agree 100%!
so i already established there werent any good qbs for cowher to draft
no now it changes to cowher should have traded for one.......wasnt it already establishes that coaches dont make trades?
so cowher didnt ignore or devalue the qb position.
if anybody did, it was the owner and gm
and while we are at it, can you tell me when was the last time the steelers made a trade for a player the caliber of montana?..............the answer is never
finally, to compare cowhers having the ability to trade for montana(which he didnt have )_to tomlins decision to play lbs in coverage(which he has total control) is foolish
if thats the case, tomlin should have traded for earl thomas, eric berry, charles woodson and richard sherman if he truly valued the secondary psoitions
You are either not very smart or are being willfully ignorant. Everyone else is managing to have a pleasant discussion, even if we disagree. You’re arguing in absolutes and about the meaning of words like a 15 year old who just discovered Reddit and misunderstood the one book on logic they read while high late at night.
His philosophy almost worked, too. Let’s use a salary cap of $100 million (for easier numbers with which to work). Your franchise QB takes up 20% of that. One player... $20 million. Cowher went with Scrub McDecent (for $5 million) and used that extra money to keep FOUR top-tier defenders.
It’s sort of like today, where teams hit on a franchise QB in the draft, and then, surround him with talent while he is on his rookie contract (see: Seahawks from 2013-2017).
If a certain “QB who shall remain nameless” (because, he’s dead to me) hadn’t messed up Super Bowl XXX, it would have worked. Likewise, the 1997 AFCCG and the 2001 AFCCG saw Kordell have a meltdown at the absolute worst time.
The problem is: if you add Montana fir 1993 & 1994, you probably lose Rod Woodson and/or Greg Lloyd. A few years later, I’d you trade for Rich Gannon, you likely do not have Levon Kirkland and/or Joel Steed. If you draft Drew Brees, you absolutely do not have Casey Hampton. Now... those decisions look simple in hindsight, but it truly was a bunch of very tough choices.
SUMMATION:
There is a reason that QB is the most important player on your team.
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