Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

[Shoes]

I take comfort in it because having lived in Atlanta since the 80s and followed the Falcons I know what life is like for a typical middle of the pack franchise - occasional peaks and 2 Super Bowl appearances since the franchise was founded featuring the starting safety getting arrested for soliciting an undercover cop for sex the night before the game in the first one and blowing a 28-3 lead in the second half of the second appearance

Sone posters here seem to take having one of the best franchises in the league as a fundamental right and want to burn it down because they experienced to a lesser degree the disappointment that has existed for fans of every team in the league other than the Patriots this century. If they were fans of one of what is regarded as the better run franchises like the Chiefs (last Super Bowl appearance 49 years ago in Joe Greene’s rookie season) they probably would want Arrowhead razed and the earth on which it was built salted before building a new stadium at another location to exorcise the evil spirits.

Sorry for the sermon but former players like Bettis and particularly Ward (who has as much standing to criticize players for discussing locker room disputes with the media as he would to criticize someone else for being arrested for drunk driving) bemoaning the state of the team during the glorious days when they allegedly were guardians of higher standards have set me off with regard to the narrative on the alleged awfulness of the current Steelers compared to the rest of the league and former Steelers teams (check out stories on the 1977 Steelers sometime to see how even the greatest group of Steelrrs of them all had major problems)

Go Rams!

I think the real beef people have with former Steeler players speaking out is their criticism of Tomlin.

I think DeCastro said it best. "We can beat anybody. We can also lose to anybody." -- Steelers guard David DeCastro. That's about where we are.

Go Rams!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Respectfully contend that overstates the extent of the Steelers problems compared to the true train wrecks in the league. But after a fairly consistent run of competitiveness since 1972 other than the late Noll years, late 90s, and 2012-13 (ponder that compared to the rest of the NFL) it can seem that way to a fan base that assumes success is simply what happens

The team went 9-6-1 after making the playoffs 4 seasons straight but with no Super Bowl appearances and a mediocre 3-4 playoff record

The board of directors (aka AJRII) might fire the CEO (Tomlin) under those circumstances for the equivalent of an underperforming stock price

The equivalent of needing to file for bankruptcy is the option when you are the Bengals with a cheap owner & no playoff wins since 1991, the Raiders moving to Vegas, LA or any place that will take them after bad ownership & coaching have dragged down the franchise for years, the Jax Jags rumored for years to be heading to London since tarps covering empty seating are a feature at the stadium, the Danny Snyder Redskins, or the Browns until this past mid season with their toxic combination of bad ownership in Jimmy Haslam combined with awful coaching under Hue Jackson

Just noting what a truly dysfunctional franchise that needs to be blown up is like for anyone discouraged by how the Steelers have rolled since January 2018

Sure, the Steelers are far from bankruptcy or surrender....but they are also far from performing at a consistent level where they are competitive against anybody in the NFL and challenging for championships.

Pick any company that you want that turned things around from underperforming to being a global success and you will see that a change in mindset, sometimes a complete culture change or a change in business model (Nokia went from Industrial to Technology sector) was necessary to achieve greatness. Whether its Apple, Motorola, GE, or the Steelers....the talented people in the organization cant benefit the organization if their efforts aren't coordinated towards the goal/objectives.

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I think the real beef people have with former Steeler players speaking out is their criticism of Tomlin.

I think DeCastro said it best. "We can beat anybody. We can also lose to anybody." -- Steelers guard David DeCastro. That's about where we are.

Go Rams!

I have no beef with any former Steeler player for speaking out about anybody. I just find it amusing how so many current Steeler fans don't want to listen to the comments, if they say something bad about a current Steelers that they like, but fully support the guy if its something bad about a current Steeler that they don't like.

I like to listen to the comments and when there are a lot of sources saying similar things, in a rational and concise manner, as opposed to spewing vitriol and anger...... then it generally indicates that is the closest to the true version of what is happening.

[Shoes]

I think that is where you and I differ. I do not look at this team and see a SB winning team. I just don't. The defense has far too many holes. If Shazier was healthy, and Burns had panned out to be better than Sensabaugh, then I do see a team that could compete for the AFC Championship and perhaps win a SB. That would be assuming someone on offense figured out how to be a viable deep threat/3rd WR. Switzer is a fun guy to root for, but he isn't a consistent option. Washington, TBD. The offense just looked different with Rogers out there and he isn't exactly superstar material. But those things did not happen, so I see a divisional round team until they get another 1-2 playmakers on defense OR have current guys on the roster elevate their game (Davis, Edmunds, Dupree, Hargrave, etc.). They have ONE guy on defense that would scare me as an OC for the other team, TJ Watt. The rest of the guys, I would just run my stuff and live with what happened.

It is just too easy for an offense to isolate and expose Sensabaugh, VW, Bostic/Fort/Hole in Zone, or Edmunds and get that key 3rd down conversion. Teams like the Rams, Chiefs, or Patriots would have embarrassed the Steelers coverages. Just as I fully expect the Rams to decimate the Patriots LB corps and safeties tomorrow.

I hope you are right, but I heard a lot of people saying similar stuff about KC. Mahomes picked the Pats.

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Sure, the Steelers are far from bankruptcy or surrender....but they are also far from performing at a consistent level where they are competitive against anybody in the NFL and challenging for championships.

Pick any company that you want that turned things around from underperforming to being a global success and you will see that a change in mindset, sometimes a complete culture change or a change in business model (Nokia went from Industrial to Technology sector) was necessary to achieve greatness. Whether its Apple, Motorola, GE, or the Steelers....the talented people in the organization cant benefit the organization if their efforts aren't coordinated towards the goal/objectives.

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I have no beef with any former Steeler player for speaking out about anybody. I just find it amusing how so many current Steeler fans don't want to listen to the comments, if they say something bad about a current Steelers that they like, but fully support the guy if its something bad about a current Steeler that they don't like.

I like to listen to the comments and when there are a lot of sources saying similar things, in a rational and concise manner, as opposed to spewing vitriol and anger...... then it generally indicates that is the closest to the true version of what is happening.

I resemble that remark!

[86WARD]

I think that is where you and I differ. I do not look at this team and see a SB winning team. I just don't. The defense has far too many holes. If Shazier was healthy, and Burns had panned out to be better than Sensabaugh, then I do see a team that could compete for the AFC Championship and perhaps win a SB. That would be assuming someone on offense figured out how to be a viable deep threat/3rd WR. Switzer is a fun guy to root for, but he isn't a consistent option. Washington, TBD. The offense just looked different with Rogers out there and he isn't exactly superstar material. But those things did not happen, so I see a divisional round team until they get another 1-2 playmakers on defense OR have current guys on the roster elevate their game (Davis, Edmunds, Dupree, Hargrave, etc.). They have ONE guy on defense that would scare me as an OC for the other team, TJ Watt. The rest of the guys, I would just run my stuff and live with what happened.

It is just too easy for an offense to isolate and expose Sensabaugh, VW, Bostic/Fort/Hole in Zone, or Edmunds and get that key 3rd down conversion. Teams like the Rams, Chiefs, or Patriots would have embarrassed the Steelers coverages. Just as I fully expect the Rams to decimate the Patriots LB corps and safeties tomorrow.

But the Steelers hung with the Chiefs and beat the Patriots. I’ll agree this team has many holes, too many IMO on offense and defense but this season a lot of teams did. The only team that has a strong offense and defense on paper are the Rams. So maybe the Steelers don’t beat the Rams but talent-wise, they are as talented as the Chiefs and as talented as the Patriots IMO. Offensive-wise, the Steelers should be able to hang with any other offense in the league, Rams included.

[AtlantaDan]

I have no beef with any former Steeler player for speaking out about anybody. I just find it amusing how so many current Steeler fans don't want to listen to the comments, if they say something bad about a current Steelers that they like, but fully support the guy if its something bad about a current Steeler that they don't like..

Former players obviously can say whatever they want but I consider the credibility of the source.

Harrison obviously misses the spotlight and appears to have talked himself into believing Tomlin did a terrible wrong to him in 2017. Ward’s issues with Roethlisberger go back to when they played together and FWIW him lecturing anyone on the need to keep team disputes in the locker room is laughable coming from someone who agreed to an interview on national TV while the 2009 season was starting to spiral out of control to question Roethlisberger not playing after a concussion and claiming the team was split 50/50 on whether he should play. That is about as bad as it gets for disclosing an internal issue to the media.

Given my posts here about the QB I gave the name Radio Ben it is not a matter of me being upset about former players going after players I adore. It is just applying the same standard I did in my former day job when assessing and impeaching the credibility of witnesses. By those standards Harrison and Ward are carrying a lot of baggage that undermines their credibility.

OTOH if anyone has any links to what Farrior, Aaron Smith, Hampton or Faneca have to say about the Ben/AB/Tomlin issues that have dominated the postseason so far I would value those observations from someone without an apparent ax to grind or seeming need to get quoted after a failed career in sports media.

[Mojouw]

But the Steelers hung with the Chiefs and beat the Patriots. I’ll agree this team has many holes, too many IMO on offense and defense but this season a lot of teams did. The only team that has a strong offense and defense on paper are the Rams. So maybe the Steelers don’t beat the Rams but talent-wise, they are as talented as the Chiefs and as talented as the Patriots IMO. Offensive-wise, the Steelers should be able to hang with any other offense in the league, Rams included.

You may be right. I just don't see it that way. Chiefs beat the Pats early in the season and then the Pats had their # in the playoffs, kinda see the same thing happening with Steelers/Pats.

I don't think that a team needs all-stars at every position or anything, but I really don't think that the Steelers are among the 4-5 most overall talented teams in the league right now. They are right below that line and could easily break into that, but not the past 2 seasons.

Offense is really good, but so were all those Payton-Brees Saints teams with bad defenses. Sam with the Manning-Dungy era Colts. That is the Steelers right now. Too unbalanced between offense/defense to be really considered one of the upper tier squads. But if they get hot, they can beat anyone and "steal" a SB.

[DesertSteel]

Patriots have had lots of holes, big enough to drive trucks through the past 3-4 years but they keep going to the Super Bowl. No team in this era is ever going to be strong both sides at every position. Game planning and putting your players in best position to win will always be the answer. I don’t see Tomlin as having that skill set.

[Shoes]

Former players obviously can say whatever they want but I consider the credibility of the source.

Harrison obviously misses the spotlight and appears to have talked himself into believing Tomlin did a terrible wrong to him in 2017. Ward’s issues with Roethlisberger go back to when they played together and FWIW him lecturing anyone on the need to keep team disputes in the locker room is laughable coming from someone who agreed to an interview on national TV while the 2009 season was starting to spiral out of control to question Roethlisberger not playing after a concussion and claiming the team was split 50/50 on whether he should play. That is about as bad as it gets for disclosing an internal issue to the media.

Given my posts here about the QB I gave the name Radio Ben it is not a matter of me being upset about former players going after players I adore. It is just applying the same standard I did in my former day job when assessing and impeaching the credibility of witnesses. By those standards Harrison and Ward are carrying a lot of baggage that undermines their credibility.

OTOH if anyone has any links to what Farrior, Aaron Smith, Hampton or Faneca have to say about the Ben/AB/Tomlin issues that have dominated the postseason so far I would value those observations from someone without an apparent ax to grind or seeming need to get quoted after a failed career in sports media.

Do Polamalu & Keisel count on Tomlin?

https://steelcityblitz.com/source-po...issues-tomlin/

[Mojouw]

Do Polamalu & Keisel count on Tomlin?

https://steelcityblitz.com/source-po...issues-tomlin/

I've heard this before. Likely fairly close to the truth.

I think that Tomlin and everyone else has never really mixed any bones about the fact that he does not treat every player on the roster the same. So if that is the starting point, I would have the following questions that no reporter or blogger seems to bother to attempt to answer:

1. Is different rules for different players rare or strange across the NFL?
2. Has this always happened or are different rules something more recent related to current generation of NFL players?
3. If it is rare, what in Tomlin's background or philosophy accounts for his approach? If it is not rare (comments about Russell Wilson and Carson Wentz make me believe it may not be...) then what is not working in the Steelers case that makes everyone react like it is an unheard of thing?

My personal belief is that it is not rare BUT Tomlin or someone on the staff has a serious communication problem where decisions are being made and not being heard by the players. This leads to different interpretations of the same message. An example is how did Harrison have one interpretation of his time in Pittsburgh and the coaching staff have entirely another...but since the Steelers basically practice "omerta" on these kinds of issues, I suspect no one will ever get to the root of it.

[Shoes]

I've heard this before. Likely fairly close to the truth.

I think that Tomlin and everyone else has never really mixed any bones about the fact that he does not treat every player on the roster the same. So if that is the starting point, I would have the following questions that no reporter or blogger seems to bother to attempt to answer:

1. Is different rules for different players rare or strange across the NFL?
2. Has this always happened or are different rules something more recent related to current generation of NFL players?
3. If it is rare, what in Tomlin's background or philosophy accounts for his approach? If it is not rare (comments about Russell Wilson and Carson Wentz make me believe it may not be...) then what is not working in the Steelers case that makes everyone react like it is an unheard of thing?

My personal belief is that it is not rare BUT Tomlin or someone on the staff has a serious communication problem where decisions are being made and not being heard by the players. This leads to different interpretations of the same message. An example is how did Harrison have one interpretation of his time in Pittsburgh and the coaching staff have entirely another...but since the Steelers basically practice "omerta" on these kinds of issues, I suspect no one will ever get to the root of it.

It should matter what the rules of other teams are. If this is my team I'm going to run it as I see fit. It's a sad story when you see players like Troy and others divided and choosing sides because the HC has blinders on. I don't think much has changed for the better since.

[Mojouw]

It should matter what other teams are doing. If this is my team I'm going to run it as I see fit, unfortunately, Tomlin has chosen another way. It's a sad story when you see players like Troy and others divide because the HC has blinders on.

Okay. But that means that you have decided there is one right way to run a football team. Based on what? Your impression that no other locker room has different rules? That was the whole point of my post. Not that you are wrong, but that it would be really interesting and illuminating to have any of the articles that focus on these issues surrounding the Steelers to provide ANY context or background. They don't. I have no idea why. Like James Harrison is sitting right there pissing and moaning about Tomlin's approach. So just ask him..."What was different about how Mike Tomlin led a team than your college coach did? Or the staff in Cincy?" But instead these guys essentially file cut and paste quotes with no actual information.

I think that the story isn't as cut and dried as things are being made out to be because basically no one will go on record with actual details or no reporter will pursue it to its logical conclusion. Something seems missing. I think that Dulac and Heyward's recent comments hit pretty close to the truth. Social media age players just don't adhere to the same "team" ideals we have all had drilled into us and some of them just can't be reached. I believe this ranges from dramatic episodes like AB to simpler things like Justin Gilbert. That dude burnt through 2-3 NFL teams because he simply couldn't be motivated to put in the work it took to be a professional. Heyward basically said that Tomlin treats grown men like grown men and a few guys can't handle that. Not sure that there is a problem that can be fixed other than trying to figure out which of the guys on a roster a wired to not function without extreme adult supervision.

[Shoes]

Okay. But that means that you have decided there is one right way to run a football team. Based on what? Your impression that no other locker room has different rules? That was the whole point of my post. Not that you are wrong, but that it would be really interesting and illuminating to have any of the articles that focus on these issues surrounding the Steelers to provide ANY context or background. They don't. I have no idea why. Like James Harrison is sitting right there pissing and moaning about Tomlin's approach. So just ask him..."What was different about how Mike Tomlin led a team than your college coach did? Or the staff in Cincy?" But instead these guys essentially file cut and paste quotes with no actual information.

I think that the story isn't as cut and dried as things are being made out to be because basically no one will go on record with actual details or no reporter will pursue it to its logical conclusion. Something seems missing. I think that Dulac and Heyward's recent comments hit pretty close to the truth. Social media age players just don't adhere to the same "team" ideals we have all had drilled into us and some of them just can't be reached. I believe this ranges from dramatic episodes like AB to simpler things like Justin Gilbert. That dude burnt through 2-3 NFL teams because he simply couldn't be motivated to put in the work it took to be a professional. Heyward basically said that Tomlin treats grown men like grown men and a few guys can't handle that. Not sure that there is a problem that can be fixed other than trying to figure out which of the guys on a roster a wired to not function without extreme adult supervision.

I really don't see any strong leadership in the locker room. Tomlin may treat them like grown men but many/some of them have a mans body and 15-year-old brain. Without strong leadership, you have a shitshow and added to that Tomlin having a variety of "standards" results in a compounded shitshow.

[AtlantaDan]

Do Polamalu & Keisel count on Tomlin?

https://steelcityblitz.com/source-po...issues-tomlin/

I was referring to a public statement from any of those men, such as when Farrior went on the record last September that the OL should shut up about anything to do with Bell attempting to negotiate his contract with this tweet

“Never speak about another man’s contract. Wish the man good luck and hope he gets back soon. That’s it.” (FWIW that tweet appears to have been taken down from Farrior's twitter feed)

https://triblive.com/sports/columnis...rphed-into-bad

Troy obviously remains distressed about something, given his estrangement from the franchise, which might be due to, as "Steeldad" contends based upon "a source familiar" with Polamalu's thoughts, LeBeau getting canned (he deserved to be fired) or Troy being fed up with the young money crew along with Mitchell. Might also be because Troy wanted to cash another year of paychecks and the Steelers told him he would be released if he did not retire since he was done.

Since Troy has not been quoted directly, as far as I know, I do not regard an anonymous source as a credible read on what "counts."

I clicked on the link in the article you posted that supposedly was going to specify how "Polamalu was not alone in his feelings and you can refer to comments made by guys like Ryan Clark, James Harrison and Brett Keisel for proof."

The link took me to an article on how Keisel thinks the world of LeBeau.

[Shoes]

I was referring to a public statement from any of those men, such as when Farrior went on the record last September that the OL should shut up about anything to do with Bell attempting to negotiate his contract with this tweet

“Never speak about another man’s contract. Wish the man good luck and hope he gets back soon. That’s it.” (FWIW that tweet appears to have been taken down from Farrior's twitter feed)

https://triblive.com/sports/columnis...rphed-into-bad

Troy obviously remains distressed about something, given his estrangement from the franchise, which might be due to, as "Steeldad" contends based upon "a source familiar" with Polamalu's thoughts, LeBeau getting canned (he deserved to be fired) or Troy being fed up with the young money crew along with Mitchell. Might also be because Troy wanted to cash another year of paychecks and the Steelers told him he would be released if he did not retire since he was done.

Since Troy has not been quoted directly, as far as I know, I do not regard an anonymous source as a credible read on what "counts."

I clicked on the link in the article you posted that supposedly was going to specify how "Polamalu was not alone in his feelings and you can refer to comments made by guys like Ryan Clark, James Harrison and Brett Keisel for proof."

The link took me to an article on how Keisel thinks the world of LeBeau.

10-4

Troy would never speak against Tomlin or anyone else, but the unfortunate part is Tomlins slack and the LeBeau issue seems to have caused some sort of division with players like Troy, Keisel, and others. I suppose there are other players who wouldn't speak out publicly.

[Mojouw]

I really don't see any strong leadership in the locker room. Tomlin may treat them like grown men but many/some of them have a mans body and 15-year-old brain. Without strong leadership, you have a shitshow and added to that Tomlin having a variety of "standards" results in a compounded shitshow.

OK. But how does "leadership" impact:

1. Ben's INT rate or #?
2. The inability of linebackers or safeties to make any plays in pass coverage?
3. The almost total absence of turnovers on defense?

The only disappointing part of the Steelers 2018 season that I can believe leadership could have turned around are the boneheaded penalties on special teams. Maybe guys needed to work harder or be more aware in that role? I don't know. I would be willing to even extend that leadership might have salvaged Artie Burns. But maybe thats more on players like Haden and Sensabaugh than coaches? Again, I don't know because everyone just throws leadership out as the answer to any and every problem but never bothers to explain how it translates to correcting or creating the problems that were glaring evident on the field in 2018.

Additionally, if the leadership is so bad, how are guys like Okafor and Fieler able to step in and excel? Did Munch just operate in separate bubble?

[Shoes]

OK. But how does "leadership" impact:

1. Ben's INT rate or #?
2. The inability of linebackers or safeties to make any plays in pass coverage?
3. The almost total absence of turnovers on defense?

The only disappointing part of the Steelers 2018 season that I can believe leadership could have turned around are the boneheaded penalties on special teams. Maybe guys needed to work harder or be more aware in that role? I don't know. I would be willing to even extend that leadership might have salvaged Artie Burns. But maybe thats more on players like Haden and Sensabaugh than coaches? Again, I don't know because everyone just throws leadership out as the answer to any and every problem but never bothers to explain how it translates to correcting or creating the problems that were glaring evident on the field in 2018.

Additionally, if the leadership is so bad, how are guys like Okafor and Fieler able to step in and excel? Did Munch just operate in separate bubble?

1. Ben doesn't have any structure, he slings it and he isn't going to change how he plays. He has said so himself. He has a caddy in Fitch and no one else.

2. You have Tomlin and Butler running the defense with no one knowing who is doing what

3. Same as #2 plus how are they developing these young players? The beef with LeBeau was he let players rot on the bench for 2-3 years, now it seems they just throw rookies in.

Not saying there are not needs, there are but if you are not developing players the only ones who will make a difference are the TJ Watt type who are smart enough, talented enough and have JJ as a brother.

Munch probably did have his little bubble going, it will be interesting to see if it continues with Starrett.

[Mojouw]

1. Ben doesn't have any structure, he slings it and he isn't going to change how he plays. He has said so himself. He has a caddy in Fitch and no one else.

2. You have Tomlin and Butler running the defense with no one knowing who is doing what

3. Same as #2 plus how are they developing these young players? The beef with LeBeau was he let players rot on the bench for 2-3 years, now it seems they just throw rookies in.

Not saying there are not needs, there are but if you are not developing players the only ones who will make a difference are the TJ Watt type who are smart enough, talented enough and have JJ as a brother.

Munch probably did have his little bubble going, it will be interesting to see if it continues with Starrett.

Ok. Fair enough. But we are back to the idea that everything bad is due to piss poor leadership from the coaches and everything good is due to exceptional players being able to avoid being ruined by said leadership. Pretty weak thesis and chain of logic there. But, who knows, it might be right!

Hargrave, Heyward, Tuitt, Davis, VW, AB, JuJu, James, Edmunds, and Conner have all gotten better over their years on the team than they were when they were drafted. I haven't even included the offensive line since I sorta agree that until it gets done w/out Munch can't really count it.

You have prominent (say first 3 rounds) young players that failed to launch in Jarvis Jones, Dupree, and Burns. Add in Sweed, Dri Archer, and Curtis Brown since 2010. Not exactly a litany of failure.

For the rookie thing -- everyone is forced to do it now. That is how you make the cap math work. Edmunds got better over the season - so that says to me there was/is a plan and the player is progressing through it.

[AtlantaDan]

10-4

Troy would never speak against Tomlin or anyone else, but the unfortunate part is Tomlins slack and the LeBeau issue seems to have caused some sort of division with players like Troy, Keisel, and others. I suppose there are other players who wouldn't speak out publicly.

My bet is everyone on that defense during its 2004-2011 peak was vexed about LeBeau not getting to decide on his terms when he would leave. But unless you own the team you are subject to being fired if you are not getting the job done any longer.

Now that we have hit the offseason until free agency in March hopefully everyone will assume radio silence (Harrison can devote his energies to hyping his appearance on whatever TV cop show I saw during the Super Bowl he will be on) while the Steelers try to trade or reconcile with AB

[Shoes]

My bet is everyone on that defense during its 2004-2011 peak was vexed about LeBeau not getting to decide on his terms when he would leave. But unless you own the team you are subject to being fired if you are not getting the job done any longer.

Now that we have hit the offseason until free agency in March hopefully everyone will assume radio silence (Harrison can devote his energies to hyping his appearance on whatever TV cop show I saw during the Super Bowl he will be on) while the Steelers try to trade or reconcile with AB

Harrison should talk with Faneca about a good healthy diet because he's about to explode.