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Thread: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Did you listen to the audio of the Stephen A Smith show from the 1:08.00 mark that was posted above?

    What are your thoughts on the insight and opinions of how things currently are in the Steelers organization and how this likely could get resolved?
    Listened to it and did not hear anything that has not been said before. His observations were what has been posted here by many posters, including me, about Ben's radio show being a problem, Tomlin should have done something about AB acting out along with other players going public with their grievances years ago, and at some point the Steelers may have no choice but to get the aggrieved parties in the AB unpleasantness together for a sit down.

    Of course as far as Ward saying on the one hand everyone needs to sit down and hash out their grievances (no kidding - that is how adults presumably would handle it) while on the other hand acknowledging AB was out of line by not responding to AJRII, not certain how you have a sit down if AB apparently is not even responding to teammates, Tomlin or the owner but using Drew Rosenhaus as his messenger boy while giving dazed mini-interviews in Atlanta.

    But the credibility of anything Ward says about keeping it in the locker room (including Ben said I will not throw you the ball - that was new - only quote I have seen that comes close to that is Radio Ben saying after the Denver cluster he would have preferred on first & goal to try four passes to JuJu) is undermined by Ward unloading on Ben on NBC before the Ravens game in 2009.

    If Stephen A. wanted to really engage Ward he could/should have asked if keeping it in the locker room was so sacred when Ward was on the team and how the 2004-2010 Steelers rolled why did you go public with the locker room allegedly being split 50/50 on Ben not playing in the Ravens game.

    But it it is pretty clear Stephen A. is among those who wants Ben to take a greater share of the blame for the current State of the Steelers (I have posted Ben is a major contributor) so no chance Ward was going to be asked about his NBC comments by Stephen A. Given his history with Ben no surprise Ward was glad to help advance that agenda.

    What are your thoughts on the apparent hypocrisy of Ward being a champion this week of what happens in the locker room staying in the locker room while disclosing in the Football Night in America interview his version of locker room discussions about Ben playing in the 2009 game at Baltimore that ran immediately before that game?

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Hines is absolutely right. The Steelers are a shitshow, and worst of all, Art has set the standard so low, he is pretending as if nothing is wrong because "they had a winning season and ALMOST won the division". It's not just the constant drama, devolving into a weekly soap opera, it's also the idea that after such a failure of a season wrought with constant drama, the team still feels as if they did well enough to warrant only minor changes

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Listened to it and did not hear anything that has not been said before. His observations were what has been posted here by many posters, including me, about Ben's radio show being a problem, Tomlin should have done something about AB acting out along with other players going public with their grievances years ago, and at some point the Steelers may have no choice but to get the aggrieved parties in the AB unpleasantness together for a sit down.

    Of course as far as Ward saying on the one hand everyone needs to sit down and hash out their grievances (no kidding - that is how adults presumably would handle it) while on the other hand acknowledging AB was out of line by not responding to AJRII, not certain how you have a sit down if AB apparently is not even responding to teammates, Tomlin or the owner but using Drew Rosenhaus as his messenger boy while giving dazed mini-interviews in Atlanta.

    But the credibility of anything Ward says about keeping it in the locker room (including Ben said I will not throw you the ball - that was new - only quote I have seen that comes close to that is Radio Ben saying after the Denver cluster he would have preferred on first & goal to try four passes to JuJu) is undermined by Ward unloading on Ben on NBC before the Ravens game in 2009.

    If Stephen A. wanted to really engage Ward he could/should have asked if keeping it in the locker room was so sacred when Ward was on the team and how the 2004-2010 Steelers rolled why did you go public with the locker room allegedly being split 50/50 on Ben not playing in the Ravens game.

    But it it is pretty clear Stephen A. is among those who wants Ben to take a greater share of the blame for the current State of the Steelers (I have posted Ben is a major contributor) so no chance Ward was going to be asked about his NBC comments by Stephen A. Given his history with Ben no surprise Ward was glad to help advance that agenda.

    What are your thoughts on the apparent hypocrisy of Ward being a champion this week of what happens in the locker room staying in the locker room while disclosing in the Football Night in America interview his version of locker room discussions about Ben playing in the 2009 game at Baltimore that ran immediately before that game?
    From what I recall, Ward thought Ben should cowboy up and go to battle with his teammates in a big game that had implications for playoffs. Ben was dealing with some after effects of a head shot. Its a time and era where there was a transition from the culture of NFL tough guys playing thru head injuries to the now hypersensitivity to head injuries.

    IMO, Ward was an old school thinker that wanted their franchise QB to play thru the head injury because it was a big game. I thought he later changed his point of view and don't think it was in the same vein of much of the "blame game" after the fact that goes on in Ben's radio show broadcasts.

    As for discrediting anything Hines Ward said, because he made a mistake once and spoke to NBC in a way that wasn't complimentary of his QB in 2009. A QB that in the offseason after that was involved in the incident in Milledgeville, GA, suspended by the NFL and later admittedly said he and his "big Ben" alter ego was at times larger than him?? Ward should have kept his comments in the locker room, but maybe he was frustrated because Big Ben at that point in his career was bigger than Ben Roethilisberger and might not have responded rationally to comments from veteran teammates.

    Teegre was once a big proponent of the Steelers needing to Draft Matt Elam. I don't discredit every opinion of his because he made a big mistake pimping Matt Elam. Nor do I discredit everything Hines Ward has to say about being a teammate, what goes on in unified and productive locker rooms, compared to dysfunctional and fractured locker rooms. I just don't think its prudent to avoid a persons opinion based on one mistake.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    And somehow orchestrating his own trade out of the Burgh to the 49ers (4-12 in 2018) will fix that?


    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    Because the 49ers have done exactly what since 1998?

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../sfo/index.htm

    The link is the history of the 49ers franchise and a compilation of every season. What is it in that history that tells you that AB would have a better chance to win with the 49ers than staying with the Steelers?
    Fans here complain about what the Steelers have done since 2010!

    Take a look at the franchise history of the Steelers and compare: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/

    People are getting too emotional about things and not thinking clearly. They just want heads to roll because......because......because they just want it OK!! I know it's frustrating because I feel the frustration too. I just think that some are overreacting. If there's another bad year then maybe it's time to think about going in a different direction, but just read what you said above and look at both of those links I posted. I don't understand how anyone can come to that conclusion. There is literally no evidence to support that.

    Come on Shoes....get a hold of yourself!



    You guys need to get a hold of yourselves. I didn't say a word about the 49ers. I think there will be more teams than the 49ers in play for AB. AB knows if he returns to the team this is all going to repeat itself. I'm sure AB didn't want to say what he feels in public, but its possible a win for him would be getting out of Pittsburgh. Sometimes a change of scenery is needed for everyone involved when it gets to a certain point.
    Last edited by Shoes; 02-01-2019 at 12:22 PM.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Hines is absolutely right. The Steelers are a shitshow, and worst of all, Art has set the standard so low, he is pretending as if nothing is wrong because "they had a winning season and ALMOST won the division". It's not just the constant drama, devolving into a weekly soap opera, it's also the idea that after such a failure of a season wrought with constant drama, the team still feels as if they did well enough to warrant only minor changes
    As Ward said, Mr Rooney is rather hands off. He pays the Head Coach to take care of the football team and Mike Tomlin has to have some sense of accountability for the team, locker room culture, performance, etc. Tomlin treats players like grown men, but at times these players are not acting like grown men, so he in turn needed and now needs to keep them accountable and responsible to the organization, teammates, themselves.

    I think Ward is correct, as you do. I don't think there is a quick fix, but rather something that grown men need to sit down and talk. Going forward, Tomlin needs to be up front and transparent of how he is going to handle things and if he continues to give the few stars a long leash and hold the rest of the team to a different standard, then the problems will remain.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    The bottom line is you can’t fix a bad culture simply by getting rid of a couple players who are products of that culture. That’s like treating a dog for fleas but ignoring the flea infested environment it lives in. Sooner rather than later the dog will be flea ridden again.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    The bottom line is you can’t fix a bad culture simply by getting rid of a couple players who are products of that culture. That’s like treating a dog for fleas but ignoring the flea infested environment it lives in. Sooner rather than later the dog will be flea ridden again.
    Ok. So there are what the active roster (53), the PS (10), and some guys hanging around injured (say another 5) on an NFL team? That is just under 70 guys. So there are 6 dozen players in an average NFL locker room.

    For the Steelers the visible problems have been a WR with mental health and substance abuse issues, a RB who was fine until he decided he was worth the moon and the stars, a veteran LB who wildly misjudged his on-field worth, and an egomaniac WR who clearly has issues that extend beyond the Pittsburgh Steelers. And that has been over say 3 seasons...so 68x3=204 guys have cycled through the locker room (I realize this triple counts some guys) and 4 appear to be a problem. Or go more conservative and say between 2016-2018 there have been 90 players that have appeared on a roster. There have been 4 visible problems. If the culture was so toxic, wouldn't there be issues up and down the roster?

    I do not discount that those 4 have caused an issue. And I bet there are a few other issues simmering below the surface that fans never saw in the same time period. But that just isn't enough for me to say "That is the key problem with this team! Solve that and you have an annual SB participant!". Certainly not while the defense still doesn't cause any turnovers. For instance, Steelers Depot had a post awhile back that documented somewhere between 10-12 missed INTs this past season (plays where the ball clanked off a guys hands/body). That is a far bigger reason, for me, for the 2018 standing of the team than anything AB did.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Like this?

    In a taped interview with Bob Costas aired beforehand on NBC's "Football Night in America," the Steelers' all-time leading receiver talked about the locker room being "like a 50-50 toss-up" over whether quarterback Ben Roethlisberger should have played last night despite a concussion from seven days earlier. Ward talked about lying to team doctors on occasions when he suffered from concussion symptoms and how many NFL players overlook them, statements that league officials won't relish reading and hearing amid an increased effort to protect players from such life-altering injuries. And he talked in such a way that his predecessor as the player voted the league's dirtiest, NBC analyst Rodney Harrison, criticized Ward for questioning his team leader's toughness...

    "It's almost like a 50-50 toss-up in the locker room: Should he play? Shouldn't he play? It's really hard to say. I've been out there dinged up; the following week, got right back out there. Ben practiced all week. He split time with Dennis Dixon. And then to find out that he's still having some headaches and not playing and it came down to the doctors didn't feel that they were going to clear him or not -- it's hard to say. Unless you're the person [himself]. ... I've lied to a couple of doctors saying I'm straight, I feel good when I know that I'm not really straight."

    https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...s/200911300141

    Or this SI article when the team was the defending Super Bowl champ and Cowher was still the HC?

    And while it would seem that the hard-nosed Ward would be the ideal Bill Cowher guy--tough, physical,intense--the wideout says he's never had a warm relationship with him. "I don't have anything to say to him," he says. "After what he did to me, after how he treated me, no. The numbers I put up? The seasons I had, for them to keep on bringing in guys...?"

    https://www.si.com/vault/2006/05/15/...-long-way-home

    Too bad for these former Steelers who prattle on about the good old days of the brotherhood that their former statements and conduct are just a cut and paste away online

    Good memory! Ward always fancied himself the underdog and used every perceived slight to further motivate himself. I think he always had issue with Ben because of Ben's stated preference to keep Plaxico Burress. The sort of big receiver he liked.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Ok. So there are what the active roster (53), the PS (10), and some guys hanging around injured (say another 5) on an NFL team? That is just under 70 guys. So there are 6 dozen players in an average NFL locker room.

    For the Steelers the visible problems have been a WR with mental health and substance abuse issues, a RB who was fine until he decided he was worth the moon and the stars, a veteran LB who wildly misjudged his on-field worth, and an egomaniac WR who clearly has issues that extend beyond the Pittsburgh Steelers. And that has been over say 3 seasons...so 68x3=204 guys have cycled through the locker room (I realize this triple counts some guys) and 4 appear to be a problem. Or go more conservative and say between 2016-2018 there have been 90 players that have appeared on a roster. There have been 4 visible problems. If the culture was so toxic, wouldn't there be issues up and down the roster?

    I do not discount that those 4 have caused an issue. And I bet there are a few other issues simmering below the surface that fans never saw in the same time period. But that just isn't enough for me to say "That is the key problem with this team! Solve that and you have an annual SB participant!". Certainly not while the defense still doesn't cause any turnovers. For instance, Steelers Depot had a post awhile back that documented somewhere between 10-12 missed INTs this past season (plays where the ball clanked off a guys hands/body). That is a far bigger reason, for me, for the 2018 standing of the team than anything AB did.
    All I know is that two current players in that locker room have come out and called the current Steelers the Kardashians. Were they being complimentary? I further know that two players in the past two years (JH and AB) have walked out on the team and left the stadium during the game. Refresh me on what other teams had that happen the past two years. It'd all be great if the team was making progress on the field. They have ZERO playoff wins the past two years. So yeah, I think it's a culture problem and many ex-Steeler greats who are around the facility agree.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    All I know is that two current players in that locker room have come out and called the current Steelers the Kardashians. Were they being complimentary? I further know that two players in the past two years (JH and AB) have walked out on the team and left the stadium during the game. Refresh me on what other teams had that happen the past two years. It'd all be great if the team was making progress on the field. They have ZERO playoff wins the past two years. So yeah, I think it's a culture problem and many ex-Steeler greats who are around the facility agree.
    Again, you are arguing like I'm making it a stark choice between "problem" and "no problem". That is a false choice and not what I have been attempting to express across multiple threads.

    Put it this way -

    Is the lack of turnovers on defense the past 2-3 seasons a more significant factor in losing football games than "leadership"?

    Is the inability of the Steelers to defend 4-5 WR sets for 3+ seasons now a more significant factor in losing football games than James Harrison getting butt-hurt about DNP-Coaches Decision/Old?

    Is the tendency of the 2018 Steelers offense to commit turnovers in the red zone a bigger factor in losing football games than AB being an ego maniacal moron?

    The focus on culture and whatever is like looking at a broken down car that is missing a functioning transmission, only has 75% of its cylinders working, and a bent axle but figuring that if you put a fresh coat of paint on it, functioning headlights, and some new wiper blades it'll run fine. Those things are important to a high functioning car, but I'm fixing those last.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    he will probably be a no show
    ftfy
    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Tomlin is that good.



    PATRIOTS**

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Again, you are arguing like I'm making it a stark choice between "problem" and "no problem". That is a false choice and not what I have been attempting to express across multiple threads.

    Put it this way -

    Is the lack of turnovers on defense the past 2-3 seasons a more significant factor in losing football games than "leadership"?

    Is the inability of the Steelers to defend 4-5 WR sets for 3+ seasons now a more significant factor in losing football games than James Harrison getting butt-hurt about DNP-Coaches Decision/Old?

    Is the tendency of the 2018 Steelers offense to commit turnovers in the red zone a bigger factor in losing football games than AB being an ego maniacal moron?

    The focus on culture and whatever is like looking at a broken down car that is missing a functioning transmission, only has 75% of its cylinders working, and a bent axle but figuring that if you put a fresh coat of paint on it, functioning headlights, and some new wiper blades it'll run fine. Those things are important to a high functioning car, but I'm fixing those last.
    Well for so long you contended that there wasn’t a problem so I’ve just not noticed that you’ve shifted, if you have.

    As for what’s more important, it depends. I’d say that as long as Tomlin is coach that leadership will be more important because IMO he sucks at Xs and Os. I believe Bradshaw to be correct that Tomlin is a cheerleader. At this stage, he’s a bad one.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Well for so long you contended that there wasn’t a problem so I’ve just not noticed that you’ve shifted, if you have.

    As for what’s more important, it depends. I’d say that as long as Tomlin is coach that leadership will be more important because IMO he sucks at Xs and Os. I believe Bradshaw to be correct that Tomlin is a cheerleader. At this stage, he’s a bad one.
    I never contended that there aren't problems. Just that roster talent and scheme are far bigger problems.


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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I never contended that there aren't problems. Just that roster talent and scheme are far bigger problems.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That’s certainly the biggest problem and why Tomlin needs to go.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    I don't think Tomlin is a bad coach because he chooses to treat players like they are adult men. The problem is that this within this current group of players, there are some that can't handle that responsibility. One in particular appears to need professional help. I don't think anything that Tomlin could have done differently would make him any different that what he is today.



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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    [/B]

    You guys need to get a hold of yourselves. I didn't say a word about the 49ers. I think there will be more teams than the 49ers in play for AB. AB knows if he returns to the team this is all going to repeat itself. I'm sure AB didn't want to say what he feels in public, but its possible a win for him would be getting out of Pittsburgh. Sometimes a change of scenery is needed for everyone involved when it gets to a certain point.

    Shoes, that's where AB has been saying he wants to go. I'm showing the hypocrisy of his statement of wanting to win by pushing for a trade to a team that has sucked for a long time.

    I'm messing with you with the get ahold of yourself comment.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    What Jimmy G has proven in the league so far = 0

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    As for discrediting anything Hines Ward said, because he made a mistake once and spoke to NBC in a way that wasn't complimentary of his QB in 2009. A QB that in the offseason after that was involved in the incident in Milledgeville, GA, suspended by the NFL and later admittedly said he and his "big Ben" alter ego was at times larger than him?? Ward should have kept his comments in the locker room, but maybe he was frustrated because Big Ben at that point in his career was bigger than Ben Roethilisberger and might not have responded rationally to comments from veteran teammates.
    So, Ward talking out of turn to the media was somehow Roethlisberger's fault? OK...

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Ok. So there are what the active roster (53), the PS (10), and some guys hanging around injured (say another 5) on an NFL team? That is just under 70 guys. So there are 6 dozen players in an average NFL locker room.

    For the Steelers the visible problems have been a WR with mental health and substance abuse issues, a RB who was fine until he decided he was worth the moon and the stars, a veteran LB who wildly misjudged his on-field worth, and an egomaniac WR who clearly has issues that extend beyond the Pittsburgh Steelers. And that has been over say 3 seasons...so 68x3=204 guys have cycled through the locker room (I realize this triple counts some guys) and 4 appear to be a problem. Or go more conservative and say between 2016-2018 there have been 90 players that have appeared on a roster. There have been 4 visible problems. If the culture was so toxic, wouldn't there be issues up and down the roster?

    I do not discount that those 4 have caused an issue. And I bet there are a few other issues simmering below the surface that fans never saw in the same time period. But that just isn't enough for me to say "That is the key problem with this team! Solve that and you have an annual SB participant!". Certainly not while the defense still doesn't cause any turnovers. For instance, Steelers Depot had a post awhile back that documented somewhere between 10-12 missed INTs this past season (plays where the ball clanked off a guys hands/body). That is a far bigger reason, for me, for the 2018 standing of the team than anything AB did.
    Blount to Bell to Bryant to Harrison to AV to Bell to Ben to James to Brown to Fort. I’d pretty much say there are issues up and down the roster in some form or fashion over time. Some more severe than others. Even JuJu made a Kardashian comment...was that necessary? Not really. Was it hurtful? Not really. Could the media have taken that and spun it? Probably.

    Your argument about numbers and percentages doesn’t matter. It’s still much more than any other team and the severity of some of them is extreme. You can throw all the numbers you want out there but how many other teams have drama with the QB every week? How many have an All Pro RB disappear? All Pro LB go rogue? Best WR in the world Flake out? Fill that in with the little drama of AV, Fort, Bryant being a basket case...and what have you? Name another team with those issues... that players of that stature. Is there another?

    But let’s say you are right about everything and it’s the players only...then there’s a problem with the player evaluation system and who does that fall on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    So, Ward talking out of turn to the media was somehow Roethlisberger's fault? OK...
    Lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    Bleier hasn't said a ton on this , his social media ( twitter ) account has barely mentioned a thing ... but what he has said has been consistent with pretty much everyone else
    IMO, Bleier’s comments are way different. Bleier’s heart was broken during that Raiders game, and his words were those of someone who was emotionally drained. I get that... I respect that... and, not just because Bleier is considered a Saint in my household, but because he has no ulterior motive.

    Conversely, what do Cowher, Ward, Bettis, & Harrison all have in common?

    (hint: NBC, CBS, FOX)

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    So, Ward talking out of turn to the media was somehow Roethlisberger's fault? OK...
    Why does everything have to be about placing fault/blame on somebody?

    Is it conceivable that 2 different individuals, or groups of individuals have a different viewpoint on the same situation? What if those people or groups first tried to understand the other's point of view and then discussed.....rather than trying to push their own point of view on the other?

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Blount to Bell to Bryant to Harrison to AV to Bell to Ben to James to Brown to Fort. I’d pretty much say there are issues up and down the roster in some form or fashion over time. Some more severe than others. Even JuJu made a Kardashian comment...was that necessary? Not really. Was it hurtful? Not really. Could the media have taken that and spun it? Probably.

    Your argument about numbers and percentages doesn’t matter. It’s still much more than any other team and the severity of some of them is extreme. You can throw all the numbers you want out there but how many other teams have drama with the QB every week? How many have an All Pro RB disappear? All Pro LB go rogue? Best WR in the world Flake out? Fill that in with the little drama of AV, Fort, Bryant being a basket case...and what have you? Name another team with those issues... that players of that stature. Is there another?

    But let’s say you are right about everything and it’s the players only...then there’s a problem with the player evaluation system and who does that fall on?
    I don’t know - maybe Colbert for buying the wrong groceries or maybe Tomlin for not using them right?

    But you are still not addressing my main point - this stuff is so far down the list of reasons on why this team is losing football games and yet everyone is talking and reacting to it like it is the top 3 reasons.

    Lets say we could wave a magic wand and fix these issues and you would NEVER hear another thing about any of this nonsense again BUT nothing else about the roster and approach really changed. This team would still be 9-7 or 10-6.

    They have no playmakers down the middle of the defense. You know the spot on the field that offenses make the majority of their plays on. They cant generate turnovers. One of their outside corners is basically a traffic cone strapped to a rascal scooter. They have no consistent downfield passing attack. They have 1.5 viable TEs. Their defensive approach to multiple receiver motion based offenses sucks. Since that is almost every offense these days, that is kind of a big problem.

    But yeah, lets talk all about how players social media accounts make us feel sad and not proud of them. That’s the key to championship football. Lets hammer a coaching staff for assuming that grown men could and should act like grown men and not petulant man children. And lets just make the assumption that discipline is what wins games. Not things like talent and game plan.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I don’t know - maybe Colbert for buying the wrong groceries or maybe Tomlin for not using them right?

    But you are still not addressing my main point - this stuff is so far down the list of reasons on why this team is losing football games and yet everyone is talking and reacting to it like it is the top 3 reasons.

    Lets say we could wave a magic wand and fix these issues and you would NEVER hear another thing about any of this nonsense again BUT nothing else about the roster and approach really changed. This team would still be 9-7 or 10-6.

    They have no playmakers down the middle of the defense. You know the spot on the field that offenses make the majority of their plays on. They cant generate turnovers. One of their outside corners is basically a traffic cone strapped to a rascal scooter. They have no consistent downfield passing attack. They have 1.5 viable TEs. Their defensive approach to multiple receiver motion based offenses sucks. Since that is almost every offense these days, that is kind of a big problem.

    But yeah, lets talk all about how players social media accounts make us feel sad and not proud of them. That’s the key to championship football. Lets hammer a coaching staff for assuming that grown men could and should act like grown men and not petulant man children. And lets just make the assumption that discipline is what wins games. Not things like talent and game plan.
    I think your point is VERY valid. I also think the narrative that people take in regards to a locker room issue is valid as well. I tend to think your point, if fixed, would in turn fix some, SOME of the "locker room" issues. The common denominator between your on-field point and the off-field drama is the coaching staff and upper management. IMO, I feel that is the group failing most in all of this...from the Rooney's to Colbert (picking wrong players) to Tomlin (not managing players/calling bad plays/gameplan) to Butler (screwing up on weekly basis more times than not) to Smith (screwing up on a weekly basis period). I'm not sure at this stage, they have a grasp on it. I'm not disagreeing with you...I'm just not discounting the fact that there are major issues/distractions that are happening at levels that are unacceptable and no matter what talent this team has, which by the way is one of the more talented teams in the league (on paper), it has an impact on the roster and on the game play. This team should have been in the Super Bowl last season and they had a better shot than most at it this season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    You can have all the talent in the world, but if they don't work together then the team will not achieve. Difficult to work together on a team if there is no unity. There are countless examples in Business, Sports, Military of how this works to coordinate people in strategic fashion to achieve a specific goal(s).

    If the Steelers were a corporation or military unit, the current state of the franchise would have them filing for bankruptcy protection or waving a white flag.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    You can have all the talent in the world, but if they don't work together then the team will not achieve. Difficult to work together on a team if there is no unity. There are countless examples in Business, Sports, Military of how this works to coordinate people in strategic fashion to achieve a specific goal(s).

    If the Steelers were a corporation or military unit, the current state of the franchise would have them filing for bankruptcy protection or waving a white flag.

    Agreed, I think it's easy to remove the human element in football because we tend to look at these people as objects of winning. We look at their talent as the key to winning but the unity that El mentioned above is the glue that holds it all together. Winning teams of every occupation are made up of people of all levels of talent working together with one mind to reach a common goal. Trust in your workmates and leadership is a must to reach the goal.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    If the Steelers were a corporation or military unit, the current state of the franchise would have them filing for bankruptcy protection or waving a white flag.
    Respectfully contend that overstates the extent of the Steelers problems compared to the true train wrecks in the league. But after a fairly consistent run of competitiveness since 1972 other than the late Noll years, late 90s, and 2012-13 (ponder that compared to the rest of the NFL) it can seem that way to a fan base that assumes success is simply what happens

    The team went 9-6-1 after making the playoffs 4 seasons straight but with no Super Bowl appearances and a mediocre 3-4 playoff record

    The board of directors (aka AJRII) might fire the CEO (Tomlin) under those circumstances for the equivalent of an underperforming stock price

    The equivalent of needing to file for bankruptcy is the option when you are the Bengals with a cheap owner & no playoff wins since 1991, the Raiders moving to Vegas, LA or any place that will take them after bad ownership & coaching have dragged down the franchise for years, the Jax Jags rumored for years to be heading to London since tarps covering empty seating are a feature at the stadium, the Danny Snyder Redskins, or the Browns until this past mid season with their toxic combination of bad ownership in Jimmy Haslam combined with awful coaching under Hue Jackson

    Just noting what a truly dysfunctional franchise that needs to be blown up is like for anyone discouraged by how the Steelers have rolled since January 2018


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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    We always seem to take comfort in our position when looking at teams worse than us, yet scoff and call the Pats cheats who are better than us. That's about where we are.

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    We always seem to take comfort in our position when looking at teams worse than us, yet scoff and call the Pats cheats who are better than us. That's about where we are.
    I take comfort in it because having lived in Atlanta since the 80s and followed the Falcons I know what life is like for a typical middle of the pack franchise - occasional peaks and 2 Super Bowl appearances since the franchise was founded featuring the starting safety getting arrested for soliciting an undercover cop for sex the night before the game in the first one and blowing a 28-3 lead in the second half of the second appearance

    Sone posters here seem to take having one of the best franchises in the league as a fundamental right and want to burn it down because they experienced to a lesser degree the disappointment that has existed for fans of every team in the league other than the Patriots this century. If they were fans of one of what is regarded as the better run franchises like the Chiefs (last Super Bowl appearance 49 years ago in Joe Greene’s rookie season) they probably would want Arrowhead razed and the earth on which it was built salted before building a new stadium at another location to exorcise the evil spirits.

    Sorry for the sermon but former players like Bettis and particularly Ward (who has as much standing to criticize players for discussing locker room disputes with the media as he would to criticize someone else for being arrested for drunk driving) bemoaning the state of the team during the glorious days when they allegedly were guardians of higher standards have set me off with regard to the narrative on the alleged awfulness of the current Steelers compared to the rest of the league and former Steelers teams (check out stories on the 1977 Steelers sometime to see how even the greatest group of Steelrrs of them all had major problems)

    Go Rams!

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    Re: Hines Ward Embarrassed By State Of The Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    I think your point is VERY valid. I also think the narrative that people take in regards to a locker room issue is valid as well. I tend to think your point, if fixed, would in turn fix some, SOME of the "locker room" issues. The common denominator between your on-field point and the off-field drama is the coaching staff and upper management. IMO, I feel that is the group failing most in all of this...from the Rooney's to Colbert (picking wrong players) to Tomlin (not managing players/calling bad plays/gameplan) to Butler (screwing up on weekly basis more times than not) to Smith (screwing up on a weekly basis period). I'm not sure at this stage, they have a grasp on it. I'm not disagreeing with you...I'm just not discounting the fact that there are major issues/distractions that are happening at levels that are unacceptable and no matter what talent this team has, which by the way is one of the more talented teams in the league (on paper), it has an impact on the roster and on the game play. This team should have been in the Super Bowl last season and they had a better shot than most at it this season.
    I think that is where you and I differ. I do not look at this team and see a SB winning team. I just don't. The defense has far too many holes. If Shazier was healthy, and Burns had panned out to be better than Sensabaugh, then I do see a team that could compete for the AFC Championship and perhaps win a SB. That would be assuming someone on offense figured out how to be a viable deep threat/3rd WR. Switzer is a fun guy to root for, but he isn't a consistent option. Washington, TBD. The offense just looked different with Rogers out there and he isn't exactly superstar material. But those things did not happen, so I see a divisional round team until they get another 1-2 playmakers on defense OR have current guys on the roster elevate their game (Davis, Edmunds, Dupree, Hargrave, etc.). They have ONE guy on defense that would scare me as an OC for the other team, TJ Watt. The rest of the guys, I would just run my stuff and live with what happened.

    It is just too easy for an offense to isolate and expose Sensabaugh, VW, Bostic/Fort/Hole in Zone, or Edmunds and get that key 3rd down conversion. Teams like the Rams, Chiefs, or Patriots would have embarrassed the Steelers coverages. Just as I fully expect the Rams to decimate the Patriots LB corps and safeties tomorrow.

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