Most comprehensive overview of the ongoing AB situation I've seen

[zulater]

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-...-probably-over

I know I know! Another AB thread. Couldn't you just link this with an existing thread? But I think this one is different. Gives a fair oversight to things.
Well worth reading to the end. We've seen bits of pieces of this already but this fleshes things out to a better understanding of where things are,and how they got there.

Anyway sometimes things get lost in the shuffle when you link to an existing thread, and I think this thread gives a chance for a fresh look and fresh follow up discussion so I went this way.

[FrancoLambert]

After reading this, it’s apparent that different standards were applied to AB and his behavior.

This approach usually works for a while then ultimately blows up.

Here we are.

[86WARD]

So basically, Tomlin has different rules for different players, extended Browns “leash” to the point where he was able to do pretty much anything he wanted. That’s the kind of thing that doesn’t happen under Belichick. Everyone on the Patriots is on the same level as far as I can tell. Maybe I’m not seeing it.

This is a problem that has resulted from Colbert’s and Tomlin’s “leadership”.

How AB could be allowed to go get an AirBnB at camp sounds ridiculous. I don’t know...is that the norm around the NFL?

[DesertSteel]

Good read.

Fowler, once more, reiterates his different take on the cap situation.

Financially, trading Brown is not a daunting task. The move would leave the Steelers with an additional $1.045 million in salary-cap space -- $21.120 million in dead money offset by a $22.165 million cap hit off the books by his departure.

- - - Updated - - -

One hour ago...

Fowler:

Antonio Brown has had contact with the Steelers. Agent Drew Rosenhaus, in response to @FanSided report that Brown and the team have begun discussing possible reconciliation, told ESPN: "(Report) has no idea what our position is. We have not shared it with anyone outside of the Steelers. We have shared our thoughts with the Steelers but will keep those discussions internal."

[Michael]

After reading this, it’s apparent that different standards were applied to AB and his behavior.

This approach usually works for a while then ultimately blows up.

Here we are.

Thank you Zu, it was a comprehensive article.

"This approach usually works for a while then ultimately blows up.

" Mike Tomlin does not have effective applied disciplinary skills. In fairness to Tomlin it is a tight rope endeavor. I saw & heard Tomlin's mild frustrations with A B when he was interviewed on Dancing with the Stars.

None of us really knows what is going on in the locker room or on the practice field. If Brown's career has any chance to continue the leaders of the Steelers are going to have am open and definitive meeting . I would suggest, Rooney & Tomlin & AB. Brown can't continue his egoic behavior. He has to reach a point where he realizes that his individual EFFORTS & achievements do not give him the right to behave as he does. He is not a Picasso , or a brilliant writer. He is on a TEAM and he must commit to being a mature TEAM MATE. The leaders of this team have a responsibility to present their leadership expectations. I think its worth the effort and it probably will have to start with Rooney and Tomlin in that order. Deep down I do not think A B wants to leave the Steelers. I live in the Northern California and I do not think the 49ers are a play off team with the Rams & Sea Hawks in their division and Brown likes being a winner.

[vader29]

[zulater]

Seems like the situation, as effed up as it was ,was to everyone's benefit and more or less accepted by all because of AB's otherworldly talents, commitment to fitness, and exceptional work ethic once on the practice field. And it would have likely kept working until the emergence of Ju Ju as a potential 1A.

Ben tried to use Ju Ju as a wake up call to AB is my guess. And it backfired because of AB's ego. Maybe Ben was in the wrong to handle it as he did. But it's obvious that Tomlin had no inclination to ever reign him in. Anyway I think Ben's main problem with AB is that his freelancing of routes, which has worked great at times, is becoming problematic and has led to too many interceptions. Maybe a little closer attention to detail could iron this out some?

As to where we're at? I don't know? You certainly can't bring AB back and allow him to continue abiding by his own set of rules. Can Tomlin with a straight face become more authoritative this late in game and be taken seriously by AB or anyone else? I mean it's one thing to come in as a tough ass and loosen the reigns, ala Tom Coughlin with the Giants. But I don't know if it works the other way?

As to AB. Where the hell does he think he's going to go and get it better than what he got from the Steelers? You think coaches and GM's are going to see what's been put out there and then trade for AB and tell him, just tell us what you need and how to best serve you? Hell no. Before they make a deal they'll want to talk to him and tell him they want him, but only if he can agree to be one of 53. I think he most of all will regret it if things can't be ironed out between he and the Steelers.

[Shoes]

You have to have the same rules for everyone, if you don't this is what you get. This is like letting a two-year-old run the household, ever see one of those disasters?

[Rotorhead]

AB may well get his wish, and unless he goes to a team with a WB that can extend plays like Ben, he will go from being great to just really good. As much as ppl here don’t like Ben, AB needed him to get those stats with all those broken plays they put together. At this point I don’t really care what happens to AB, he won’t be as good in most other places.

[Born2Steel]

This is hilarious. AB is having fun fishing in fans. This is professional trolling to see what reactions he can get. Like I said, hilarious!

[Born2Steel]

You have to have the same rules for everyone, if you don't this is what you get. This is like letting a two-year-old run the household, ever see one of those disasters?

I get what you’re saying but it’s impossible. You remember the story of when Jeff Fisher cut a player for letting a girl in his room on a Hard Knocks episode? Do you honestly think Aaron Donald gets cut for that same offense? Not even if the Hard Knocks film crew catches both and calls the coach out on his double standard. All players are not equal and therefore some get a lot more leash than others. Those guys dancing in the endzone typically get the longest of leashes.

[Mojouw]

I got no problem with different rules for different people. No amount of fines, benchings, or yelling can force a grown-man with millions of dollars and HOF caliber on field production to act like a mature adult. That desire has to come from within.

As soon as AB signed his first big deal, fines became meaningless. Benchings - maybe. But I'm guessing those were not handed out because of production and to attempt to side-step "drama" and keep things in-house. It appears that almost no NFL veteran that Fowler talked to had much of a problem with things either. The piece reads like everyone knew the score and was in the neighborhood of okay with it.

I also think dramatic and public punishment of AB would've resulted in an estrangement from the team just like now, but at an earlier date. AB's personality seems (and I could be WAY off) pretty easy to piece together. Low round draft pick with average at best scouting reports. Shows up to an NFL team and works his way onto the roster and forces his way onto the field. Then absolutely dominates. Continues to work harder than almost anyone else in the league. Continues to perform on the field, often saving his biggest plays for the biggest moments. AB likely keeps this all up by running on "disrespect" both real and imagined. His draft status. How much he gets paid. The media attention on OBJ, Hopkins, and Julio Jones. The recent media love for Juju. Clamping down on guys like that results in what Randy Moss, Keyshawn Johnson, T.O., and a host of others have already blazed the trail for. He would've started the process of forcing his way off the team. The twisted logic of "I've earned respect by working harder and performing better than anyone in the league at my position. If you don't want to give me that respect and the privileges that I believe go along with it, then I don't want to be here anymore." would have started.

Previous players that had this attitude were always changing teams every 2-3 years. Their act wears thin and then their ego writes checks that no one can cash. Usually, it only changes when their career starts to close out and they decide they need to change their attitude to ensure being on a winning team as their skills erode.

AB has a choice, and their is nothing that Tomlin, Colbert, or Rooney can do to influence it or ensure any outcome. Does he want the rest of his career to be defined as all about "AB" the persona and brand or does he want it to be about Antonio Brown the HOF WR that defined a generation of greatness for the Pittsburgh Steelers? I would hope it is the latter, but honestly believe it is the former. AB wants to be somewhere where there are even less rules, he runs the show (no QB or other star players that interfere with whatever he wants), and will be viewed as the ENTIRE reason an offense is successful.

[zulater]

I get what you’re saying but it’s impossible. You remember the story of when Jeff Fisher cut a player for letting a girl in his room on a Hard Knocks episode? Do you honestly think Aaron Donald gets cut for that same offense? Not even if the Hard Knocks film crew catches both and calls the coach out on his double standard. All players are not equal and therefore some get a lot more leash than others. Those guys dancing in the endzone typically get the longest of leashes.

Jimmy Johnson when he was the Cowboys coach once cut a player for sleeping in a meeting. When it was pointed out that Micheal Irvin did that sort of thing routinely Johnson pointed out the guy he cut was no Micheal Irvin!

So yeah you're right. But I guess in this case it went to the extreme.

[Shoes]

I get what you’re saying but it’s impossible. You remember the story of when Jeff Fisher cut a player for letting a girl in his room on a Hard Knocks episode? Do you honestly think Aaron Donald gets cut for that same offense? Not even if the Hard Knocks film crew catches both and calls the coach out on his double standard. All players are not equal and therefore some get a lot more leash than others. Those guys dancing in the endzone typically get the longest of leashes.

I disagree. And I suppose another reason why I'll stop watching football.

[Mojouw]

Jimmy Johnson when he was the Cowboys coach once cut a player for sleeping in a meeting. When it was pointed out that Micheal Irvin did that sort of thing routinely Johnson pointed out the guy he cut was no Micheal Irvin!

So yeah you're right. But I guess in this case it went to the extreme.

The stories that have come out after the fact from that era Cowboy's locker room are beyond bonkers. Guys stabbed guys, Charles Haley exposed and entertained himself regularly all while cycling on and off serious mental health medications. Drugs...women..etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Boys-Will-Be-.../dp/0061256803

I can't find the references now, but there are broadly similar discussions regarding the Parcell's era Giants - primarily that Lawrence Taylor's massive cocaine habit and lifestyle was over-looked because...LT wrecked offenses every week.

I haven't found anything specific, but how much does anyone really want to bet me that Jim McMahon had totally different rules and expectations during his salad days with the Bears? I mean the dude showed up to his initial public event as a Bear with a beer in hand.

And that is from two infamous disciplinarians and old-school coaches like Parcells and Ditka.

[steelreserve]

Good read.

Fowler, once more, reiterates his different take on the cap situation.

"Financially, trading Brown is not a daunting task. The move would leave the Steelers with an additional $1.045 million in salary-cap space -- $21.120 million in dead money offset by a $22.165 million cap hit off the books by his departure. "

I hate how people keep saying that.

One option is $22 million for an All-Pro player, the other is $21 million for no player and a roster spot that needs to be filled. They make it sound like it's the same thing, no biggie! I guess it could be kind of the same thing if you have an IQ of like 40.

[Mojouw]

I hate how people keep saying that.

One option is $22 million for an All-Pro player, the other is $21 million for no player and a roster spot that needs to be filled. They make it sound like it's the same thing, no biggie! I guess it could be kind of the same thing if you have an IQ of like 40.

Fowler is just lazy in his analysis and wording. The actual information is readily available for basically no effort. Honestly, it makes it hard for me to put a ton of credence in anything this so called "insiders" write. If you can not be bothered to get the details correct, what else have you not fact-checked, verified, and otherwise put effort into?

https://overthecap.com/the-steelers-...antonio-brown/

[steelreserve]

The stories that have come out after the fact from that era Cowboy's locker room are beyond bonkers. Guys stabbed guys, Charles Haley exposed and entertained himself regularly all while cycling on and off serious mental health medications. Drugs...women..etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Boys-Will-Be-.../dp/0061256803

I can't find the references now, but there are broadly similar discussions regarding the Parcell's era Giants - primarily that Lawrence Taylor's massive cocaine habit and lifestyle was over-looked because...LT wrecked offenses every week.

I haven't found anything specific, but how much does anyone really want to bet me that Jim McMahon had totally different rules and expectations during his salad days with the Bears? I mean the dude showed up to his initial public event as a Bear with a beer in hand.

And that is from two infamous disciplinarians and old-school coaches like Parcells and Ditka.

This is right on. At some point, coaches have to realize that this is not high school, and "rah-rah, teamwork!" is not the sacred inviolable rule it is at lower levels. You have to make decisions about the balance of how much you will put up with a player being a dickhead, versus how much he helps the team win. Your only job is to win by whatever means possible, not get the nice-guy model citizen award.

As far as I'm concerned, you can go ahead smoke crack in the locker room and take a shit in the therapy tub every day, as long as it's not negatively affecting you or your teammates' ability to focus on winning the game. I mean, that level of behavior will pretty likely have the effect you don't want, but if not, then who even cares.

[Mojouw]

This is right on. At some point, coaches have to realize that this is not high school, and "rah-rah, teamwork!" is not the sacred inviolable rule it is at lower levels. You have to make decisions about the balance of how much you will put up with a player being a dickhead, versus how much he helps the team win. Your only job is to win by whatever means possible, not get the nice-guy model citizen award.

As far as I'm concerned, you can go ahead smoke crack in the locker room and take a shit in the therapy tub every day, as long as it's not negatively affecting you or your teammates' ability to focus on winning the game. I mean, that level of behavior will pretty likely have the effect you don't want, but if not, then who even cares.

Yup. I mean the model for what Tomlin is trying to do was right in the originally posted story. AB does what he does and basically it gets overlooked. Eli Rogers tried to pull the same stuff and he gets fined and otherwise punished. That makes total sense to me. AB works harder than almost anyone in the game and is one of the 10 most dominant offensive players of his era. Eli Rogers, not so much on either score.

When people's moms are still bringing orange slices and juice to the games then fairness and equity have a big role to play in team. But once someone starts cutting checks to the players, that crap goes out the window. I think players and coaches know that and accept it. Fans just don't seem to.

[Shoes]

Yup. I mean the model for what Tomlin is trying to do was right in the originally posted story. AB does what he does and basically it gets overlooked. Eli Rogers tried to pull the same stuff and he gets fined and otherwise punished. That makes total sense to me. AB works harder than almost anyone in the game and is one of the 10 most dominant offensive players of his era. Eli Rogers, not so much on either score.

When people's moms are still bringing orange slices and juice to the games then fairness and equity have a big role to play in team. But once someone starts cutting checks to the players, that crap goes out the window. I think players and coaches know that and accept it. Fans just don't seem to.

These guys are paid and paid very well to play football, not to be an asshole. There must be rules and they must be followed or this shit will only get worse, which I fully expect to happen. But by that time though, I will be spending my time doing something much more constructive and useful.

[steelreserve]

Yup. I mean the model for what Tomlin is trying to do was right in the originally posted story. AB does what he does and basically it gets overlooked. Eli Rogers tried to pull the same stuff and he gets fined and otherwise punished. That makes total sense to me. AB works harder than almost anyone in the game and is one of the 10 most dominant offensive players of his era. Eli Rogers, not so much on either score.

When people's moms are still bringing orange slices and juice to the games then fairness and equity have a big role to play in team. But once someone starts cutting checks to the players, that crap goes out the window. I think players and coaches know that and accept it. Fans just don't seem to.

The one thing I don't think acceptable is behavior that affects the player's availability. Like for example - I'm all in favor of people being allowed to smoke as much weed as they want, but if doing that is going to get you suspended by the league, and you aware of it ahead of time, then you are a real fuckin' dipshit in my book if you do it anyway because you have no self-control. Same with whatever else.

It's unfortunate that what will earn you a suspension from the league has grown to be much more restrictive than the list of things that I, personally, would have a problem with ... but since they are trying to appeal to everyone including the most easily offended, I guess the lowest common denominator is what you get. You ask me, the only suspension (other than for cheating and PEDs) you should get is if you do something so bad that you are in jail, and thereby the police take care of handing out the "suspension" for you. But since it's not that way, really these guys ought to know better and have a little awareness in those situations.

[Mojouw]

These guys are paid and paid very well to play football, not to be an asshole. There must be rules and they must be followed or this shit will only get worse, which I fully expect to happen. But by that time though, I will be spending my time doing something much more constructive and useful.

Guys have been getting paid well to play sports and have been being assholes while doing it since paying people to play sports was invented. Fans just didn't notice it as much because much of it was not reported on by the local reporters, because why would anyone need to know that Mickey Mantle partied with hookers and booze in his hotel room on the road?

Based on what I have read and seen, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that Joe Namath was not the first guy to the facility each day. But maybe that is different because those guys didn't play in the days of stupid money salaries. Fair enough...

I think David Cone wrote a book about the 1980's Royals and perhaps the Mets as well and the rampant partying, drug use, and general wildness. No way guys were rocking major cocaine habits AND coming to meetings on time AND not getting into fights during practice. That isn't how cocaine works - it doesn't make you punctual and pleasant.

The Seahawks brawled days before one of their recent SBs. I think it was the one they won too.

You and I don't have to like these and other examples, but I believe it is the reality of pro sports. The money, egos, and scrutiny has gotten so large that it is not realistic to treat every idiot that can play ball the same way. Many of these guys are fundamentally broken and mentally unstable individuals that if it wasn't for their talent at a sport would most likely NOT be high-functioning members of society.

I find it really fascinating that outside of former players that are paid to talk and make controversial statements on national media programs, all other former and current players appear to totally understand and accept that some guys don't have to play by the rules. That leads me to believe that it happens all the time in D1 college programs and is likely a daily event in pro sports.

- - - Updated - - -

The one thing I don't think acceptable is behavior that affects the player's availability. Like for example - I'm all in favor of people being allowed to smoke as much weed as they want, but if doing that is going to get you suspended by the league, and you aware of it ahead of time, then you are a real fuckin' dipshit in my book if you do it anyway because you have no self-control. Same with whatever else.

It's unfortunate that what will earn you a suspension from the league has grown to be much more restrictive than the list of things that I, personally, would have a problem with ... but since they are trying to appeal to everyone including the most easily offended, I guess the lowest common denominator is what you get. You ask me, the only suspension (other than for cheating and PEDs) you should get is if you do something so bad that you are in jail, and thereby the police take care of handing out the "suspension" for you. But since it's not that way, really these guys ought to know better and have a little awareness in those situations.

I agree with that. Like I've said before, I don't get why these dudes can't do heroin on their off time and replace their blood with octopus plasma or whatever other quackery they think will be helpful. Not the league's business in my opinion. I personally think it is hypocritical that rampant alcoholics as long as they avoid DUI issues are fine and dandy but watch out if you don't pee clean for smoking a joint or four. Nonesense.

But you hit the nail on the head -- lowest common denominator PR thinking drives everything the league does.

[Michael]

These guys are paid and paid very well to play football, not to be an asshole. There must be rules and they must be followed or this shit will only get worse, which I fully expect to happen. But by that time though, I will be spending my time doing something much more constructive and useful.

Let me know when you when you make your withdrawal. I don't know if I can but part of me thinks about it. I think when the new NFL CBA is due for renewal it could get real ugly. I might be ready to drop this game as it is now.

[BnG_Hevn]

So basically, Tomlin has different rules for different players, extended Browns “leash” to the point where he was able to do pretty much anything he wanted. That’s the kind of thing that doesn’t happen under Belichick. Everyone on the Patriots is on the same level as far as I can tell. Maybe I’m not seeing it.

This is a problem that has resulted from Colbert’s and Tomlin’s “leadership”.

How AB could be allowed to go get an AirBnB at camp sounds ridiculous. I don’t know...is that the norm around the NFL?

Are you people kidding me? Of course talent gets special treatment. Jimmy Jones said one time how if Troy Aikman fell asleep in a meeting, he gently wake him up. If a backup LB fell asleep, he'd cut him.

That's just the way it is.

[FrancoLambert]

The stories that have come out after the fact from that era Cowboy's locker room are beyond bonkers. Guys stabbed guys, Charles Haley exposed and entertained himself regularly all while cycling on and off serious mental health medications. Drugs...women..etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Boys-Will-Be-.../dp/0061256803

I can't find the references now, but there are broadly similar discussions regarding the Parcell's era Giants - primarily that Lawrence Taylor's massive cocaine habit and lifestyle was over-looked because...LT wrecked offenses every week.

I haven't found anything specific, but how much does anyone really want to bet me that Jim McMahon had totally different rules and expectations during his salad days with the Bears? I mean the dude showed up to his initial public event as a Bear with a beer in hand.

And that is from two infamous disciplinarians and old-school coaches like Parcells and Ditka.

All of these accommodations, by Johnson, Parcells, and Ditka accompanied winning championships.

We’re not winning championships, so the accommodations for AB has bred resentment in some players and that’s why we’re talking about trading him because it’s hurting the team.

[steelreserve]

I agree with that. Like I've said before, I don't get why these dudes can't do heroin on their off time and replace their blood with octopus plasma or whatever other quackery they think will be helpful. Not the league's business in my opinion. I personally think it is hypocritical that rampant alcoholics as long as they avoid DUI issues are fine and dandy but watch out if you don't pee clean for smoking a joint or four. Nonesense.

But you hit the nail on the head -- lowest common denominator PR thinking drives everything the league does.

Funny thing, once again here's another example of the NBA kicking the NFL's ass at something ... if 90% of the NBA doesn't smoke weed, I will eat nothing but dogshit for a week - but they don't test for it. And how many people talk about that league having a drug problem or an image problem? You don't go out of your way to bust people for it, it's not in the news, and nobody goes around screaming that you have a problem, omg think of the example you're setting for the children, and so on. Just some vague idea that who knows, there MIGHT be some pot use but you can't really say much for sure, and you know what, on-the-court shit is a lot more entertaining that off-the-court drama, and the formula works.

I really really have a hard time understanding how the league can, over and over, run into issues like this, and despite examples everywhere of other leagues doing the opposite and having great success that way, still insist on doing things the stupid way. But I have gotten the conversation far enough off-topic by now.

[Shoes]

Guys have been getting paid well to play sports and have been being assholes while doing it since paying people to play sports was invented. Fans just didn't notice it as much because much of it was not reported on by the local reporters, because why would anyone need to know that Mickey Mantle partied with hookers and booze in his hotel room on the road?

Based on what I have read and seen, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that Joe Namath was not the first guy to the facility each day. But maybe that is different because those guys didn't play in the days of stupid money salaries. Fair enough...

I think David Cone wrote a book about the 1980's Royals and perhaps the Mets as well and the rampant partying, drug use, and general wildness. No way guys were rocking major cocaine habits AND coming to meetings on time AND not getting into fights during practice. That isn't how cocaine works - it doesn't make you punctual and pleasant.

The Seahawks brawled days before one of their recent SBs. I think it was the one they won too.

You and I don't have to like these and other examples, but I believe it is the reality of pro sports. The money, egos, and scrutiny has gotten so large that it is not realistic to treat every idiot that can play ball the same way. Many of these guys are fundamentally broken and mentally unstable individuals that if it wasn't for their talent at a sport would most likely NOT be high-functioning members of society.

I find it really fascinating that outside of former players that are paid to talk and make controversial statements on national media programs, all other former and current players appear to totally understand and accept that some guys don't have to play by the rules. That leads me to believe that it happens all the time in D1 college programs and is likely a daily event in pro sports.

- - - Updated - - -



I agree with that. Like I've said before, I don't get why these dudes can't do heroin on their off time and replace their blood with octopus plasma or whatever other quackery they think will be helpful. Not the league's business in my opinion. I personally think it is hypocritical that rampant alcoholics as long as they avoid DUI issues are fine and dandy but watch out if you don't pee clean for smoking a joint or four. Nonesense.

But you hit the nail on the head -- lowest common denominator PR thinking drives everything the league does.

Well, I noticed. Money is the issue, well at least money that goes to the head of idiots. You can't compare the money gap between the average fan and the pro football player of the '60s & '70s to today. Football players then were making 4 times as much as the average American, today it's more than 50 times the average American. If I remember correctly, Bradshaw had to supplement his income and worked as a used car salesman in the off-season. You don't have practice squad guys doing that today. With this kind of money, a diva and a long Tomlin leash, you are shooting your own toes off one by one.

This asshole issue seems to be more football related maybe a bit of basketball. Maybe its time for the owners....never mind they are all sold out, Rooney included.


From 2013 https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/pr...y-45-years-ago

[86WARD]

This is hilarious. AB is having fun fishing in fans. This is professional trolling to see what reactions he can get. Like I said, hilarious!

This goes above what Ben does...lol

[Shoes]

This goes above what Ben does...lol

Right Ben & AB. Two peas in a pod.

[86WARD]

Yet no one talks about the Instagram post AB put out there encouraging the Steelers players in the Pro Bowl and attached a picture of him celebrating with each one...