Most comprehensive overview of the ongoing AB situation I've seen

[zulater]

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-...-probably-over

I know I know! Another AB thread. Couldn't you just link this with an existing thread? But I think this one is different. Gives a fair oversight to things.
Well worth reading to the end. We've seen bits of pieces of this already but this fleshes things out to a better understanding of where things are,and how they got there.

Anyway sometimes things get lost in the shuffle when you link to an existing thread, and I think this thread gives a chance for a fresh look and fresh follow up discussion so I went this way.

[FrancoLambert]

After reading this, it’s apparent that different standards were applied to AB and his behavior.

This approach usually works for a while then ultimately blows up.

Here we are.

[DesertSteel]

Good read.

Fowler, once more, reiterates his different take on the cap situation.

Financially, trading Brown is not a daunting task. The move would leave the Steelers with an additional $1.045 million in salary-cap space -- $21.120 million in dead money offset by a $22.165 million cap hit off the books by his departure.

- - - Updated - - -

One hour ago...

Fowler:

Antonio Brown has had contact with the Steelers. Agent Drew Rosenhaus, in response to @FanSided report that Brown and the team have begun discussing possible reconciliation, told ESPN: "(Report) has no idea what our position is. We have not shared it with anyone outside of the Steelers. We have shared our thoughts with the Steelers but will keep those discussions internal."

[steelreserve]

Good read.

Fowler, once more, reiterates his different take on the cap situation.

"Financially, trading Brown is not a daunting task. The move would leave the Steelers with an additional $1.045 million in salary-cap space -- $21.120 million in dead money offset by a $22.165 million cap hit off the books by his departure. "

I hate how people keep saying that.

One option is $22 million for an All-Pro player, the other is $21 million for no player and a roster spot that needs to be filled. They make it sound like it's the same thing, no biggie! I guess it could be kind of the same thing if you have an IQ of like 40.

[Mojouw]

I hate how people keep saying that.

One option is $22 million for an All-Pro player, the other is $21 million for no player and a roster spot that needs to be filled. They make it sound like it's the same thing, no biggie! I guess it could be kind of the same thing if you have an IQ of like 40.

Fowler is just lazy in his analysis and wording. The actual information is readily available for basically no effort. Honestly, it makes it hard for me to put a ton of credence in anything this so called "insiders" write. If you can not be bothered to get the details correct, what else have you not fact-checked, verified, and otherwise put effort into?

https://overthecap.com/the-steelers-...antonio-brown/

[Michael]

After reading this, it’s apparent that different standards were applied to AB and his behavior.

This approach usually works for a while then ultimately blows up.

Here we are.

Thank you Zu, it was a comprehensive article.

"This approach usually works for a while then ultimately blows up.

" Mike Tomlin does not have effective applied disciplinary skills. In fairness to Tomlin it is a tight rope endeavor. I saw & heard Tomlin's mild frustrations with A B when he was interviewed on Dancing with the Stars.

None of us really knows what is going on in the locker room or on the practice field. If Brown's career has any chance to continue the leaders of the Steelers are going to have am open and definitive meeting . I would suggest, Rooney & Tomlin & AB. Brown can't continue his egoic behavior. He has to reach a point where he realizes that his individual EFFORTS & achievements do not give him the right to behave as he does. He is not a Picasso , or a brilliant writer. He is on a TEAM and he must commit to being a mature TEAM MATE. The leaders of this team have a responsibility to present their leadership expectations. I think its worth the effort and it probably will have to start with Rooney and Tomlin in that order. Deep down I do not think A B wants to leave the Steelers. I live in the Northern California and I do not think the 49ers are a play off team with the Rams & Sea Hawks in their division and Brown likes being a winner.

[86WARD]

So basically, Tomlin has different rules for different players, extended Browns “leash” to the point where he was able to do pretty much anything he wanted. That’s the kind of thing that doesn’t happen under Belichick. Everyone on the Patriots is on the same level as far as I can tell. Maybe I’m not seeing it.

This is a problem that has resulted from Colbert’s and Tomlin’s “leadership”.

How AB could be allowed to go get an AirBnB at camp sounds ridiculous. I don’t know...is that the norm around the NFL?

[BnG_Hevn]

So basically, Tomlin has different rules for different players, extended Browns “leash” to the point where he was able to do pretty much anything he wanted. That’s the kind of thing that doesn’t happen under Belichick. Everyone on the Patriots is on the same level as far as I can tell. Maybe I’m not seeing it.

This is a problem that has resulted from Colbert’s and Tomlin’s “leadership”.

How AB could be allowed to go get an AirBnB at camp sounds ridiculous. I don’t know...is that the norm around the NFL?

Are you people kidding me? Of course talent gets special treatment. Jimmy Jones said one time how if Troy Aikman fell asleep in a meeting, he gently wake him up. If a backup LB fell asleep, he'd cut him.

That's just the way it is.

[vader29]

[Born2Steel]

This is hilarious. AB is having fun fishing in fans. This is professional trolling to see what reactions he can get. Like I said, hilarious!

[86WARD]

This is hilarious. AB is having fun fishing in fans. This is professional trolling to see what reactions he can get. Like I said, hilarious!

This goes above what Ben does...lol

[Shoes]

This goes above what Ben does...lol

Right Ben & AB. Two peas in a pod.

[zulater]

Seems like the situation, as effed up as it was ,was to everyone's benefit and more or less accepted by all because of AB's otherworldly talents, commitment to fitness, and exceptional work ethic once on the practice field. And it would have likely kept working until the emergence of Ju Ju as a potential 1A.

Ben tried to use Ju Ju as a wake up call to AB is my guess. And it backfired because of AB's ego. Maybe Ben was in the wrong to handle it as he did. But it's obvious that Tomlin had no inclination to ever reign him in. Anyway I think Ben's main problem with AB is that his freelancing of routes, which has worked great at times, is becoming problematic and has led to too many interceptions. Maybe a little closer attention to detail could iron this out some?

As to where we're at? I don't know? You certainly can't bring AB back and allow him to continue abiding by his own set of rules. Can Tomlin with a straight face become more authoritative this late in game and be taken seriously by AB or anyone else? I mean it's one thing to come in as a tough ass and loosen the reigns, ala Tom Coughlin with the Giants. But I don't know if it works the other way?

As to AB. Where the hell does he think he's going to go and get it better than what he got from the Steelers? You think coaches and GM's are going to see what's been put out there and then trade for AB and tell him, just tell us what you need and how to best serve you? Hell no. Before they make a deal they'll want to talk to him and tell him they want him, but only if he can agree to be one of 53. I think he most of all will regret it if things can't be ironed out between he and the Steelers.

[Shoes]

You have to have the same rules for everyone, if you don't this is what you get. This is like letting a two-year-old run the household, ever see one of those disasters?

[Born2Steel]

You have to have the same rules for everyone, if you don't this is what you get. This is like letting a two-year-old run the household, ever see one of those disasters?

I get what you’re saying but it’s impossible. You remember the story of when Jeff Fisher cut a player for letting a girl in his room on a Hard Knocks episode? Do you honestly think Aaron Donald gets cut for that same offense? Not even if the Hard Knocks film crew catches both and calls the coach out on his double standard. All players are not equal and therefore some get a lot more leash than others. Those guys dancing in the endzone typically get the longest of leashes.

[zulater]

I get what you’re saying but it’s impossible. You remember the story of when Jeff Fisher cut a player for letting a girl in his room on a Hard Knocks episode? Do you honestly think Aaron Donald gets cut for that same offense? Not even if the Hard Knocks film crew catches both and calls the coach out on his double standard. All players are not equal and therefore some get a lot more leash than others. Those guys dancing in the endzone typically get the longest of leashes.

Jimmy Johnson when he was the Cowboys coach once cut a player for sleeping in a meeting. When it was pointed out that Micheal Irvin did that sort of thing routinely Johnson pointed out the guy he cut was no Micheal Irvin!

So yeah you're right. But I guess in this case it went to the extreme.

[Mojouw]

Jimmy Johnson when he was the Cowboys coach once cut a player for sleeping in a meeting. When it was pointed out that Micheal Irvin did that sort of thing routinely Johnson pointed out the guy he cut was no Micheal Irvin!

So yeah you're right. But I guess in this case it went to the extreme.

The stories that have come out after the fact from that era Cowboy's locker room are beyond bonkers. Guys stabbed guys, Charles Haley exposed and entertained himself regularly all while cycling on and off serious mental health medications. Drugs...women..etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Boys-Will-Be-.../dp/0061256803

I can't find the references now, but there are broadly similar discussions regarding the Parcell's era Giants - primarily that Lawrence Taylor's massive cocaine habit and lifestyle was over-looked because...LT wrecked offenses every week.

I haven't found anything specific, but how much does anyone really want to bet me that Jim McMahon had totally different rules and expectations during his salad days with the Bears? I mean the dude showed up to his initial public event as a Bear with a beer in hand.

And that is from two infamous disciplinarians and old-school coaches like Parcells and Ditka.

[steelreserve]

The stories that have come out after the fact from that era Cowboy's locker room are beyond bonkers. Guys stabbed guys, Charles Haley exposed and entertained himself regularly all while cycling on and off serious mental health medications. Drugs...women..etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Boys-Will-Be-.../dp/0061256803

I can't find the references now, but there are broadly similar discussions regarding the Parcell's era Giants - primarily that Lawrence Taylor's massive cocaine habit and lifestyle was over-looked because...LT wrecked offenses every week.

I haven't found anything specific, but how much does anyone really want to bet me that Jim McMahon had totally different rules and expectations during his salad days with the Bears? I mean the dude showed up to his initial public event as a Bear with a beer in hand.

And that is from two infamous disciplinarians and old-school coaches like Parcells and Ditka.

This is right on. At some point, coaches have to realize that this is not high school, and "rah-rah, teamwork!" is not the sacred inviolable rule it is at lower levels. You have to make decisions about the balance of how much you will put up with a player being a dickhead, versus how much he helps the team win. Your only job is to win by whatever means possible, not get the nice-guy model citizen award.

As far as I'm concerned, you can go ahead smoke crack in the locker room and take a shit in the therapy tub every day, as long as it's not negatively affecting you or your teammates' ability to focus on winning the game. I mean, that level of behavior will pretty likely have the effect you don't want, but if not, then who even cares.

[FrancoLambert]

The stories that have come out after the fact from that era Cowboy's locker room are beyond bonkers. Guys stabbed guys, Charles Haley exposed and entertained himself regularly all while cycling on and off serious mental health medications. Drugs...women..etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Boys-Will-Be-.../dp/0061256803

I can't find the references now, but there are broadly similar discussions regarding the Parcell's era Giants - primarily that Lawrence Taylor's massive cocaine habit and lifestyle was over-looked because...LT wrecked offenses every week.

I haven't found anything specific, but how much does anyone really want to bet me that Jim McMahon had totally different rules and expectations during his salad days with the Bears? I mean the dude showed up to his initial public event as a Bear with a beer in hand.

And that is from two infamous disciplinarians and old-school coaches like Parcells and Ditka.

All of these accommodations, by Johnson, Parcells, and Ditka accompanied winning championships.

We’re not winning championships, so the accommodations for AB has bred resentment in some players and that’s why we’re talking about trading him because it’s hurting the team.

[teegre]

The stories that have come out after the fact from that era Cowboy's locker room are beyond bonkers. Guys stabbed guys, Charles Haley exposed and entertained himself regularly all while cycling on and off serious mental health medications. Drugs...women..etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Boys-Will-Be-.../dp/0061256803

I can't find the references now, but there are broadly similar discussions regarding the Parcell's era Giants - primarily that Lawrence Taylor's massive cocaine habit and lifestyle was over-looked because...LT wrecked offenses every week.

I haven't found anything specific, but how much does anyone really want to bet me that Jim McMahon had totally different rules and expectations during his salad days with the Bears? I mean the dude showed up to his initial public event as a Bear with a beer in hand.

And that is from two infamous disciplinarians and old-school coaches like Parcells and Ditka.

There are rumors that assistants purchased the cocaine for LT. This is unconfirmed... but... it was the 80’s.

What I do know is this quote from Parcells: “I treat every player equally... but, some are more equal than others.”


Jack Lambert used to sneak out of his hotel room the night before games, and show up hung over. Did Chuck Noll know? Maybe... and, it wouldn’t surprise me if he looked the other way.

Which brings us to Lord Belichick, thee who doth gets his balls washeth by jealous fans of rival teams... Brady has his own trainer, his own cook, and a bunch of other stuff that no one else on the team gets. And, I do not blame Belichick one bit for letting Brady have those perks.

[Shoes]

I get what you’re saying but it’s impossible. You remember the story of when Jeff Fisher cut a player for letting a girl in his room on a Hard Knocks episode? Do you honestly think Aaron Donald gets cut for that same offense? Not even if the Hard Knocks film crew catches both and calls the coach out on his double standard. All players are not equal and therefore some get a lot more leash than others. Those guys dancing in the endzone typically get the longest of leashes.

I disagree. And I suppose another reason why I'll stop watching football.

[Rotorhead]

AB may well get his wish, and unless he goes to a team with a WB that can extend plays like Ben, he will go from being great to just really good. As much as ppl here don’t like Ben, AB needed him to get those stats with all those broken plays they put together. At this point I don’t really care what happens to AB, he won’t be as good in most other places.

[Mojouw]

I got no problem with different rules for different people. No amount of fines, benchings, or yelling can force a grown-man with millions of dollars and HOF caliber on field production to act like a mature adult. That desire has to come from within.

As soon as AB signed his first big deal, fines became meaningless. Benchings - maybe. But I'm guessing those were not handed out because of production and to attempt to side-step "drama" and keep things in-house. It appears that almost no NFL veteran that Fowler talked to had much of a problem with things either. The piece reads like everyone knew the score and was in the neighborhood of okay with it.

I also think dramatic and public punishment of AB would've resulted in an estrangement from the team just like now, but at an earlier date. AB's personality seems (and I could be WAY off) pretty easy to piece together. Low round draft pick with average at best scouting reports. Shows up to an NFL team and works his way onto the roster and forces his way onto the field. Then absolutely dominates. Continues to work harder than almost anyone else in the league. Continues to perform on the field, often saving his biggest plays for the biggest moments. AB likely keeps this all up by running on "disrespect" both real and imagined. His draft status. How much he gets paid. The media attention on OBJ, Hopkins, and Julio Jones. The recent media love for Juju. Clamping down on guys like that results in what Randy Moss, Keyshawn Johnson, T.O., and a host of others have already blazed the trail for. He would've started the process of forcing his way off the team. The twisted logic of "I've earned respect by working harder and performing better than anyone in the league at my position. If you don't want to give me that respect and the privileges that I believe go along with it, then I don't want to be here anymore." would have started.

Previous players that had this attitude were always changing teams every 2-3 years. Their act wears thin and then their ego writes checks that no one can cash. Usually, it only changes when their career starts to close out and they decide they need to change their attitude to ensure being on a winning team as their skills erode.

AB has a choice, and their is nothing that Tomlin, Colbert, or Rooney can do to influence it or ensure any outcome. Does he want the rest of his career to be defined as all about "AB" the persona and brand or does he want it to be about Antonio Brown the HOF WR that defined a generation of greatness for the Pittsburgh Steelers? I would hope it is the latter, but honestly believe it is the former. AB wants to be somewhere where there are even less rules, he runs the show (no QB or other star players that interfere with whatever he wants), and will be viewed as the ENTIRE reason an offense is successful.

[86WARD]

Yet no one talks about the Instagram post AB put out there encouraging the Steelers players in the Pro Bowl and attached a picture of him celebrating with each one...

[GoSlash27]

When Tomlin took the Steelers job in 2007, he was 34 years old with a locker room full of leaders, particularly on defense. In that domain, players could mostly police themselves, McFadden said.

That's the culture change that I think is mostly responsible for the drama.
Back in the day under Cowher, the Steelers were a fraternity/ apprenticeship program. Authority was delegated down through the ranks to teach and groom the new kids. They were not expected to be productive from day 1, but would spend years as understudies learning the trade before advancing to starters.
Tomlin changed all that. Now the mantra is "next man up" and "everyone is a starter-in-waiting". He treats them all like they're veteran NFL players who already know how to play and conduct themselves at a pro level. Not saying I know how to coach a pro team better than Tomlin, but I do suspect he's mistaken on that point. I don't believe that every (or even most) collegiate players are ready to be pro NFL players when they walk in the door.

In AB's case, I think he had the talent, skills and work ethic... but lacked the humility and emotional maturity to accept his proper role on the team. The old Steelers culture would've fostered that, this new model doesn't.

My $0.02,
-Slashy

[Mojouw]

That's the culture change that I think is mostly responsible for the drama.
Back in the day under Cowher, the Steelers were a fraternity/ apprenticeship program. Authority was delegated down through the ranks to teach and groom the new kids. They were not expected to be productive from day 1, but would spend years as understudies learning the trade before advancing to starters.
Tomlin changed all that. Now the mantra is "next man up" and "everyone is a starter-in-waiting". He treats them all like they're veteran NFL players who already know how to play and conduct themselves at a pro level. Not saying I know how to coach a pro team better than Tomlin, but I do suspect he's mistaken on that point. I don't believe that every (or even most) collegiate players are ready to be pro NFL players when they walk in the door.

In AB's case, I think he had the talent, skills and work ethic... but lacked the humility and emotional maturity to accept his proper role on the team. The old Steelers culture would've fostered that, this new model doesn't.

My $0.02,
-Slashy

Problem is the economics of this era are different than Cowher's era. Today, the math of the cap and the star driven NFL mandates that you either spend about 2/3 of your cap space on a core group of 6 star players on second or third contracts and fill out the rest of the roster with low-cost (read on rookie contracts) talent (Patriots, Falcons, Chargers, Steelers, Packers) or you get a cheap but amazing rookie QB and spend on a lot of higher priced veteran talent (Rams, Chiefs, Seahawks, Eagles are recent examples). In either situation you are forced into playing young talent because it is stupid cheap right away. Many many observers (meaning smarter people than me!) have commented on how there no longer is a veteran middle class in the NFL. I think the enforcers/teachers of team rules, culture, and discipline have been forced off many rosters.

Kinda like a military unit with no experienced sergeants but lots of officers and privates.

- - - Updated - - -

Yet no one talks about the Instagram post AB put out there encouraging the Steelers players in the Pro Bowl and attached a picture of him celebrating with each one...

DRAMA!!!

[NCSteeler]

Only thing pisses me off, if this doesn't work out every damn tweet every damn insta post is lowering his value.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[DesertSteel]

Only thing pisses me off, if this doesn't work out every damn tweet every damn insta post is lowering his value.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

Not necessarily. Some teams may think they have to outbid the 49ers, when the 49ers may not even be interested.

[86WARD]

Tomlin has leaders in the locker room to police each other when he first started and there were little to no problems that we know of. now years later those leaders are gone. Could it be that Tomlin never changed or matured himself and now that those leaders are long gone we are seeing that he wasn’t the influence that we thought he was?

[AtlantaDan]

Of all all the crap AB has pulled that should have been the last straw for Tomlin, it sounds like this moment may have been the closest Tomlin came, with good cause, to having it out in front of the team for once and for all.

While Brown is known for his antics on the field, he's also known for his colorful commentary in the team facility. In one team meeting, a then-teammate overheard Brown asking why Tomlin was trying to "Martin Luther King me" over the fine coming his way.

Tomlin sternly asked him to clarify, the ex-teammate said. Someone told Brown to chill, and a small group of players looked at each other, not knowing how to respond.

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-...-probably-over

A lot to unpack with AB invoking Dr King to Tomlin in response to being fined

Despite all the acting out recounted in the articlr, this probably still can be or will need to fixed, for reasons including potential trade partners potentially lowering their offers since they know what a stick of dynamite they are adding to their locker room if an aging receiver likely to decline is brought on board.