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Thread: AFCCG / NFCCG

  1. #301
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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    From what I can tell, the offense has to have 7 guys on the line of scrimmage. Looking at the image below (which I believe is the formation at the snap), the Patriots would need all 5 OL and the WR at the top, and the guy in the slot to be on the LOS.



    By this image, the OT is NOT:



    - - - Updated - - -

    Looking at images around the internet quickly, this just must rarely get called. See OT and some OG lining up in that kinda curved pass set a fair amount. Maybe I am missing something and you are allowed to set-up off the LOS as long as your covered up or something?
    Jason Peters was flagged a couple times this year for it as well...

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    It looks like he doesn't end up anywhere? Have not been paying close attention but are there any OC jobs left?

    But you are correct, if he does go somewhere he is almost certainly going to lobby to get a few of his guys on the roster.
    There are still some vacancies (including Dallas) but apparently there are a lot of former OCs out there with a limited number of jobs where someone used to calling plays like Coach Todd could find work

    If you think there are too many head-coaching changes, just look at how bad the turnover is at offensive coordinator. The firing of Scott Linehan in Dallas leaves Pete Carmichael of the Saints and Ken Whisenhunt of the Chargers as the only offensive coordinators who have held that title with the same team for more than two years. Payton is the Saints’ play caller, however.
    Jason Garrett is considering taking back the offensive play-calling responsibilities for the Cowboys. If Zac Taylor is hired by Cincinnati, there will be 20 offensive head coaches in the NFL, roughly 16 of whom call their own plays.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...rams-patriots/







  3. #303
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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    From what I can tell, the offense has to have 7 guys on the line of scrimmage. Looking at the image below (which I believe is the formation at the snap), the Patriots would need all 5 OL and the WR at the top, and the guy in the slot to be on the LOS.



    By this image, the OT is NOT:



    - - - Updated - - -

    Looking at images around the internet quickly, this just must rarely get called. See OT and some OG lining up in that kinda curved pass set a fair amount. Maybe I am missing something and you are allowed to set-up off the LOS as long as your covered up or something?
    I think I remember something about he guard lining up at half the centers body but IDK about the OT
    Merry Christmas

  4. #304
    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    From what I can tell, the offense has to have 7 guys on the line of scrimmage. Looking at the image below (which I believe is the formation at the snap), the Patriots would need all 5 OL and the WR at the top, and the guy in the slot to be on the LOS.



    By this image, the OT is NOT:



    - - - Updated - - -

    Looking at images around the internet quickly, this just must rarely get called. See OT and some OG lining up in that kinda curved pass set a fair amount. Maybe I am missing something and you are allowed to set-up off the LOS as long as your covered up or something?
    The O lineman has to be within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage. The LOS is approx. the 34 and the head of the LT looks to be approx. the 35 in the image on top. He was likely on. You see it a lot vs speed rushers. AV uses most of the yard a lot vs speed guys.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    The O lineman has to be within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage. The LOS is approx. the 34 and the head of the LT looks to be approx. the 35 in the image on top. He was likely on. You see it a lot vs speed rushers. AV uses most of the yard a lot vs speed guys.
    Man, he looks for all the world more than a yard off in the second image. But I also understand and acknowledge that many OTs often set-up this way.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Was Dee Ford lined up off-sides? Maybe

    Was the OT too far back? Maybe

    The other critical penalty was the phantom “roughing the passer” on third-&-7. Dee Ford’s hand goes in front of Brady’s face, but clearly doesn’t touch his facemask... and his hand hits Brady across the chest/shoulder pad. Automatic first down. Instead of fourth-&-game, the Taperiots get bailed out.

    What makes it worse is that earlier in the game, a very similar play occurred when Mahomes got hit in the throat. Mind you, the Taperiots defender did not hit Mahomes’s facemask; a good non-call. But, if you are not going to call “hands to the throat” (which appeared to be more of a “foul”) then you simply cannot call a “hands to the shoulder pads” later in the game.

    Consistency.
    Call it the same.
    Stop looking like WWE.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    But c’mon! You are an NFL player. Wherever the other team lines up YOU have to be onside. The OT cheats back so you cheat up but you still know there is a line there and not to cross it.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG




  9. #309
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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Man, he looks for all the world more than a yard off in the second image. But I also understand and acknowledge that many OTs often set-up this way.
    I don't know if both those pics are supposed to be of the same play pre snap or not? It might just be the angle of the 2nd one. OT's often push the limits of taking that 1 yard and I have seen it called illegal formation a couple times. Reality is that Dee Ford was in the neutral zone and he has to know where the LOS is and be accountable for it. You can see the official on the sideline of the top picture right on the line and that is what they are there for, so it makes it an easy call if he was over the line.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Was Dee Ford lined up off-sides? Maybe

    Was the OT too far back? Maybe

    The other critical penalty was the phantom “roughing the passer” on third-&-7. Dee Ford’s hand goes in front of Brady’s face, but clearly doesn’t touch his facemask... and his hand hits Brady across the chest/shoulder pad. Automatic first down. Instead of fourth-&-game, the Taperiots get bailed out.

    What makes it worse is that earlier in the game, a very similar play occurred when Mahomes got hit in the throat. Mind you, the Taperiots defender did not hit Mahomes’s facemask; a good non-call. But, if you are not going to call “hands to the throat” (which appeared to be more of a “foul”) then you simply cannot call a “hands to the shoulder pads” later in the game.

    Consistency.
    Call it the same.
    Stop looking like WWE.
    This is where the real outrage should be. This penalty and the none called PI in the Saints game TOTALLY changed the Super Bowl. It put two teams into a championship game that most likely wouldn’t have been there had the correct calls/non-calls been made.

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    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I don't know if both those pics are supposed to be of the same play pre snap or not? It might just be the angle of the 2nd one. OT's often push the limits of taking that 1 yard and I have seen it called illegal formation a couple times. Reality is that Dee Ford was in the neutral zone and he has to know where the LOS is and be accountable for it. You can see the official on the sideline of the top picture right on the line and that is what they are there for, so it makes it an easy call if he was over the line.
    No doubt. As best I can tell those are the same play. I also agree the Ford screwed up. Just thought it was interesting that there is more to the story than the initial idea that Ford screwed up for no fathomable reason.

  12. #312
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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Stop looking like WWE.




  13. #313
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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    No doubt. As best I can tell those are the same play. I also agree the Ford screwed up. Just thought it was interesting that there is more to the story than the initial idea that Ford screwed up for no fathomable reason.
    I don't see that there is anything more to the story than just that Ford got too aggressive or got lost in the moment of trying to get the best possible jump...and he didn't look that he was lined up offside.

    Ford said later in the locker room that "I gotta see the ball" in that situation, but I don't see the obstructed view that he needed to get the extra half yard. Again, its not where his hand is, but any body part. So if Dee Ford has his hand 6 inches over the line, but his head extends another foot, then he is very much offsides.

    A guy forgot to take care of his details in a key moment of a high stakes game. It happens, but mostly to those that are not that big on details and technique.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I don't see that there is anything more to the story than just that Ford got too aggressive or got lost in the moment of trying to get the best possible jump...and he didn't look that he was lined up offside.

    Ford said later in the locker room that "I gotta see the ball" in that situation, but I don't see the obstructed view that he needed to get the extra half yard. Again, its not where his hand is, but any body part. So if Dee Ford has his hand 6 inches over the line, but his head extends another foot, then he is very much offsides.

    A guy forgot to take care of his details in a key moment of a high stakes game. It happens, but mostly to those that are not that big on details and technique.
    Plus he probably got away with stuff like that playing in the SEC.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I don't see that there is anything more to the story than just that Ford got too aggressive or got lost in the moment of trying to get the best possible jump...and he didn't look that he was lined up offside.

    Ford said later in the locker room that "I gotta see the ball" in that situation, but I don't see the obstructed view that he needed to get the extra half yard. Again, its not where his hand is, but any body part. So if Dee Ford has his hand 6 inches over the line, but his head extends another foot, then he is very much offsides.

    A guy forgot to take care of his details in a key moment of a high stakes game. It happens, but mostly to those that are not that big on details and technique.
    I think both the OT and Ford are aligned illegally. I suspect that Ford forget his responsibility to double check his alignment relative to the ball and went off the set-up position of the OT.

    All I am trying to say is that frequently the analysis of a given error in an NFL game is "That guy. That guy screwed up. It is all his fault." and I think this is a potential example of how each play is a complex interplay between 22 different responsibilities, alignments, and actions - meaning that it is clearly Ford who was wrong but the reason is more complicated than "I guess that guy is just a lazy moron.".

    End of the day, it doesn't mean anything. KC lost the game. There were other plays and calls that were far worse and KC had opportunities to make other plays to put the game away.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I think both the OT and Ford are aligned illegally. I suspect that Ford forget his responsibility to double check his alignment relative to the ball and went off the set-up position of the OT.

    .
    Here is the video link to the play. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...e-interception The LOS is the 34, Ford is over the 34 yard line. The LT has his right toe up against the 35, so his head is leaning over and within one yard. The LT is NOT lined up illegally.

    Andy Reid contends that officials would often warn the player lined up in the neutral zone to back up before the snap, but didn't in this crucial game. I have only seen that in youth football, but if Andy says it happens in the NFL, I take his word for it.

    Ford could have looked to his right for reference, or even looked to the official to ensure he was on side (the way WR's sometimes do on the boundary when they wave at the official) and might have gotten a warning from the official that he was over. Ford did not. Fact is that if Dee Ford lines up 12" further back, the INT stands and the Chiefs likely goto the Super Bowl. He has to learn from his carelessness and move forward.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Here is the video link to the play. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...e-interception The LOS is the 34, Ford is over the 34 yard line. The LT has his right toe up against the 35, so his head is leaning over and within one yard. The LT is NOT lined up illegally.

    Andy Reid contends that officials would often warn the player lined up in the neutral zone to back up before the snap, but didn't in this crucial game. I have only seen that in youth football, but if Andy says it happens in the NFL, I take his word for it.

    Ford could have looked to his right for reference, or even looked to the official to ensure he was on side (the way WR's sometimes do on the boundary when they wave at the official) and might have gotten a warning from the official that he was over. Ford did not. Fact is that if Dee Ford lines up 12" further back, the INT stands and the Chiefs likely goto the Super Bowl. He has to learn from his carelessness and move forward.
    From that angle, it looks well within the 1 yard deal. From the still image angle, it looks like his head is at or behind the 35. Anyways, I agree and was never trying to convince anyone that Dee Ford did not make a critical mistake. Just that, as with anything, there is always more to the story.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    This is where the real outrage should be. This penalty and the none called PI in the Saints game TOTALLY changed the Super Bowl. It put two teams into a championship game that most likely wouldn’t have been there had the correct calls/non-calls been made.
    The refs essentially decided who would play in the Super Bowl.

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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Stop looking like WWE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  20. #320
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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Yet ESPN doesn't care about the multiple face masks on the saints never called. Game changers for sure.

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  21. #321
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    Re: AFCCG / NFCCG

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    That was... perfect.

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