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Thread: Government Shutdown

  1. #31
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Not really. First of all, consider how these shutdowns come about: Congress intentionally delays budgetary matters until the last second so they can create a crisis if the President objects to all the pork. They've been playing chicken with shutdowns for decades. Presidents have always buckled under the pressure because they're afraid of the effect on the next midterm, so it kinda surprised everyone when this one stuck to his guns.
    Trump has shown himself to be very reasonable on this matter. He has attempted to negotiate and offered concessions. The Dems have flatly rejected all of it and offered nothing themselves.
    Trump's motivation is simply doing what he campaigned on; building his wall. The Dems' motivation is 100% political; defy Trump, use the shutdown to score political points, and appease the far left fringe of their own base.

    So no... I do not blame both sides equally. The Dems fermented this crisis and are wholly responsible for its continuation. All they have to do to end it is give the man his 5 Billion, but they have no interest in ending it. They want it to carry on as long as possible, since they believe all of the suffering benefits them politically.
    1. I have voted Independent in all four Presidential elections I've been able to take part in. Sadly, not enough people are A: Tired of the two party tyranny and B: Not enough people are "WOKE" enough to stop voting for the lesser of two evils.

    2. Well Said. (See Above)

    3. I'm so tired of people shitting on Trump for trying to actually do something to improve this country while the last President wiped his ass with the constitution for eight years and people praise him. It's ludicrous. I'll give you that Trump needs to shut up online. and that he's personally an idiot. and that's he's an immoral business person. But the man knows how to get things done. I didn't vote for him, I voted Gary Johnson....but I'd much rather he win than Hitlery with her 47 member death toll following her around.

    4. I'm terrified at what the options will be for office in 2020.

  2. #32
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    Re: Government Shutdown


  3. #33
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    looks like we're going back to work monday, which is good news

  4. #34
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    No thanks to the anti-America Dems.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Only for 3 weeks, pending a deal. Those of you who are affected by the shutdowns need to keep the pressure on your representatives to make sure that agreement is reached.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    No thanks to the anti-America Dems.
    and the anti-American Republicans too I'm still waiting for the day people realize politicians are all full of shit regardless of their affiliation. Nothing can ever change if we cant get rid of whataboutism

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    and the anti-American Republicans too I'm still waiting for the day people realize politicians are all full of shit regardless of their affiliation. Nothing can ever change if we cant get rid of whataboutism
    We can't get rid of whataboutism. I've given up on that pipe dream.
    Good governance isn't the priority for the vast majority of politicians, it's acquiring/ maintaining power and profiting from it. But I will not agree with the blanket statement "politicians are all full of shit". The vast majority are, but not all.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    We can't get rid of whataboutism. I've given up on that pipe dream.
    Good governance isn't the priority for the vast majority of politicians, it's acquiring/ maintaining power and profiting from it. But I will not agree with the blanket statement "politicians are all full of shit". The vast majority are, but not all.
    OK - I'll take the bait

    Who is a politician you do not think is full of shit?

  9. #39
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    OK - I'll take the bait

    Who is a politician you do not think is full of shit?
    Is it AOC? I bet it's AOC!

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    OK - I'll take the bait

    Who is a politician you do not think is full of shit?
    Tom Massie.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  11. #41
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Is it AOC? I bet it's AOC!
    AOC... I have to clarify "full of shit". I disagree with the lady almost 100% and she (like Trump) is willing to lie to get her way. But having said that... I do believe that she is guided by her principles, misguided as they are. She's pushing her agenda for all it's worth because she believes in it; that it's the best way forward for America.
    Same deal with Trump for that matter; he's trying to do what he thinks is right. A lot of ego and lying there, but he's not selling the country out for personal gain. He's genuinely trying to do what he thinks is best for the country.

    But AFA 100% honest, cross anybody anywhere (even "allies" ) to keep it real and actually knows what they're talking about, it's the 'Liberty Caucus' folks that everyone hates so much. Justin Amash, Rand Paul, Tom Massie, etc.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    AOC... I have to clarify "full of shit". I disagree with the lady almost 100% and she (like Trump) is willing to lie to get her way. But having said that... I do believe that she is guided by her principles, misguided as they are. She's pushing her agenda for all it's worth because she believes in it; that it's the best way forward for America.
    Same deal with Trump for that matter; he's trying to do what he thinks is right. A lot of ego and lying there, but he's not selling the country out for personal gain. He's genuinely trying to do what he thinks is best for the country.

    But AFA 100% honest, cross anybody anywhere (even "allies" ) to keep it real and actually knows what they're talking about, it's the 'Liberty Caucus' folks that everyone hates so much. Justin Amash, Rand Paul, Tom Massie, etc.
    Don't know much about the Liberty Caucus. But I do agree that I'd rather have a government full of people with ideas I disagree with that they genuinely believe in than a group who only see interested in ensuring the re-election donor checks keep rolling in.

  13. #43
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Don't know much about the Liberty Caucus. But I do agree that I'd rather have a government full of people with ideas I disagree with that they genuinely believe in than a group who only see interested in ensuring the re-election donor checks keep rolling in.
    Mojo,
    Well, that's what we're up against; an entrenched "professional political" class that doesn't really care what happens so long as their gravy train keeps rolling.
    There are people out there who genuinely believe in their ideology and would rather lose an election than sell out their principles... but they are few and far between. They have a very hard road because literally the entire system is aligned against them. And also people believe that all politicians are "full of shit" and some of them are actually dangerous and misguided.

    It's a much more complicated situation than "all politicians are full of shit".
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  14. #44
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Mojo,
    Well, that's what we're up against; an entrenched "professional political" class that doesn't really care what happens so long as their gravy train keeps rolling.
    There are people out there who genuinely believe in their ideology and would rather lose an election than sell out their principles... but they are few and far between. They have a very hard road because literally the entire system is aligned against them. And also people believe that all politicians are "full of shit" and some of them are actually dangerous and misguided.

    It's a much more complicated situation than "all politicians are full of shit".
    All too true. I don’t think anyone intended for this to all become an entrenched political class backed by the upper percent of landed elite. I mean we had a revolution and everything to get away from that.

    I personally cant stand Trump, but I do think it is deliciously entertaining how he has laid the whole rotten system bare to a degree. He said during the campaign that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and 30-40% of the country would still support him. And everything since the election has supported that as a true statement. It has become tribalism and money over action, solutions to problems, and any actual beliefs. Personally, until money is removed from elections, I don’t see how anything changes. And I fail to see how you can ever put the toothpaste back in the tube on money and AMerican politics.

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    All too true. I don’t think anyone intended for this to all become an entrenched political class backed by the upper percent of landed elite. I mean we had a revolution and everything to get away from that.

    I personally cant stand Trump, but I do think it is deliciously entertaining how he has laid the whole rotten system bare to a degree. He said during the campaign that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and 30-40% of the country would still support him. And everything since the election has supported that as a true statement. It has become tribalism and money over action, solutions to problems, and any actual beliefs. Personally, until money is removed from elections, I don’t see how anything changes. And I fail to see how you can ever put the toothpaste back in the tube on money and AMerican politics.
    Mojo,
    There's far too much money and power in the hands of far too few people. That's what makes politics so prone to corruption and greed. The only solution I see is devolving the authority back to the States and People as much as possible.

    As for the rest of it, I agree. I hope that the people who are affected by the next government shutdown keep that in mind.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Tom Massie.
    Thanks

    This Tom Massie or is there another one?

    Last edited by AtlantaDan; 02-02-2019 at 07:44 PM.

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Thanks

    This Tom Massie or is there another one?
    I fail to see your point. Are you suggesting that Massie lied about this? It's common knowledge.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/u...stigation.html
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  18. #48
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Thanks

    This Tom Massie or is there another one?

    Yeah, I don't agree politically with Alexander, but he seems to be worthy of respect and commendation for actually attempting to serve the people.

    As to the other, as soon as I hear "deep state" my brain inserts "bilderbergs", "Illuminati", "Freemason", "lizard people" or whatever and I stop paying attention.

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Mojo,
    The "Deep State" is just another phrase for 'the whole rotten system' you mentioned earlier. Maybe you should try using the terms interchangeably and not tune out.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  20. #50
    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    I fail to see your point. Are you suggesting that Massie lied about this? It's common knowledge.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/u...stigation.html
    Depends how you spin "common knowledge"

    Either he is too ignorant to figure it out, which I doubt since he went to MIT, or is lying about his claim the Trump campaign was being spied on.

    This article ran in the same publication 2 days after the article to which you linked

    F.B.I. Used Informant to Investigate Russia Ties to Campaign, Not to Spy

    President Trump accused the F.B.I. on Friday, without evidence, of sending a spy to secretly infiltrate his 2016 campaign “for political purposes” even before the bureau had any inkling of the “phony Russia hoax.” In fact, F.B.I. agents sent an informant to talk to two campaign advisers only after they received evidence that the pair had suspicious contacts linked to Russia during the campaign.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/u...stigation.html

    I will give someone like Devin Nunes or Mark Meadows, who by all appearances are too dumb to know the difference between a counterintelligence investigation and harassing your opponents for political purposes, a pass on not knowing any better.

    I am pretty confident your guy knew what he was doing when he threw out the buzz words about "spying" as the most disturbing thing he had seen by the "deep state." Unless I was clueless as to what I did as federal prosecutor for a quarter century, legitimate law enforcement activities are not "spying."

    Smart people like Massie are more disappointing than a moronic politician because they know what they are doing when they traffic in misrepresentation and insinuation (aka are full of shit)

    No intent to hassle out our differing views on Trump and the Mueller investigation here.

    If you want to reply go for it - I am not going to further engage like I made the mistake of doing previously

  21. #51
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Ah... So your quibble is a pedantic one over the use of the term "spying" vs. "investigating". I'm pretty sure individual readers can decide that question for themselves at this point.
    So either Massie was absolutely correct, or at worst used a terminology you disagree with on technical grounds but can't disprove. Either way, it's a poor example of 'lying'.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  22. #52
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Mojo,
    The "Deep State" is just another phrase for 'the whole rotten system' you mentioned earlier. Maybe you should try using the terms interchangeably and not tune out.
    Not when people claim the deep state runs a child sex slavery ring out of pizza shop. It's the same old conspiracy stuff repackaged for the internet age.

  23. #53
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Not when people claim the deep state runs a child sex slavery ring out of pizza shop. It's the same old conspiracy stuff repackaged for the internet age.
    Funny thing... People also dismissed PNAC as a conspiracy theory. Turned out to be true. It seems that dismissing accusations as "conspiracy theory" is a pretty good dodge.
    Also last I checked, Massie never said anything about sex slavery rings or pizza shops. Perhaps that brush you're painting with is a bit broad?
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  24. #54
    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Ah... So your quibble is a pedantic one over the use of the term "spying" vs. "investigating". I'm pretty sure individual readers can decide that question for themselves at this point.
    So either Massie was absolutely correct, or at worst used a terminology you disagree with on technical grounds but can't disprove. Either way, it's a poor example of 'lying'.
    Words have meaning although in our post-truth society maybe less and not for long

    If you think everything is pedantic good for you

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    I am not going to further engage like I made the mistake of doing previously
    This is a lie. Far more so than anything Massie ever said.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    This is a lie. Far more so than anything Massie ever said.
    I could contend at the time I posted that I did not have the specific intent to make a further response, which would make it a false statement rather than a lie (I played arguing these sorts of points for pay for a long time)

    But something about your posts almost beg for a response

    Thanks for reminding me why I should stay out of this section of the forum

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Funny thing... People also dismissed PNAC as a conspiracy theory. Turned out to be true. It seems that dismissing accusations as "conspiracy theory" is a pretty good dodge.
    Also last I checked, Massie never said anything about sex slavery rings or pizza shops. Perhaps that brush you're painting with is a bit broad?
    Ok. So which part of the PNAC? The part where they did the 9/11 attacks, the simple existence of a think tank that spawned 2 decades of foreign policy designs, or that they started Iraq?

    You are far too well read and aware for me to believe you don't darn well know that "deep state" truthers are a major ideological force behind pizzagate and qanon.

    I suspect this is about 3 posts from a Youtube rant by some wild eyed zealot about "globalists".

    Can't we just focus on the military industrial complex like Ike wanted us to? I like Ike...

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    I could contend at the time I posted that I did not have the specific intent to make a further response, which would make it a false statement rather than a lie (I played arguing these sorts of points for pay for a long time)

    But something about your posts almost beg for a response

    Thanks for reminding me why I should stay out of this section of the forum
    You should at least hold others to the standards you set for yourself. Massie never made so much as a "false statement" by your definition. I sincerely hope your 25 years of BS never landed any innocent people in prison.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  29. #59
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Ok. So which part of the PNAC? The part where they did the 9/11 attacks, the simple existence of a think tank that spawned 2 decades of foreign policy designs, or that they started Iraq?

    You are far too well read and aware for me to believe you don't darn well know that "deep state" truthers are a major ideological force behind pizzagate and qanon.

    I suspect this is about 3 posts from a Youtube rant by some wild eyed zealot about "globalists".

    Can't we just focus on the military industrial complex like Ike wanted us to? I like Ike...
    You, likewise, are far too well- read to not know what I'm talking about. They attempted to dismiss the existence of PNAC as a "conspiracy theory". Same as Paperclip, the Tuskegee experiments, COINTELPRO, and dozens of other examples.
    If you accept that shady shit is going on and even go so far as to state it as fact, then it doesn't just disappear because somebody happens to put a tinfoil label on it. You know what the so- called "deep state" is and you know it exists. It's not illuminati, lizard people, or anything like that. It's professional government types protecting their own.

    The "military industrial complex", if you prefer. Which is also, by the way, the territory of 'conspiracy theory'.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Government Shutdown

    1 week to go until the return of the shutdown. If yinz don't want that, I recommend contacting your representative and letting them know.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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