View Poll Results: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

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Thread: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array title="smokin3000gt has a reputation beyond repute"> smokin3000gt's Avatar

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    Conner is still the #12 RB in the league for Yards regardless of how many times they have run vs pass .... and seems like many here Bitched Conner was getting the ball to much early on and was gonna wear him out .... cant please nobody might be the better name for the thread !
    That would be a better name for steeler fans as a whole. There is no gray area, only black and white. If a RB is getting the ball we're 'running his wheels off, save him!', if we're throwing the ball we're 'not utilizing him'. If we're running the ball fans are pissed that we're not using our weapons (Ben/AB/JJS). If we're throwing the ball then we're not running it enough. Boz is in a slump and it seemed like everyone wanted to wait it out with him and that he'll pull through it. Now that we might not make post season Tomlin is the fool for keeping him. We were on a 6 game win streak and Tomlin is a great coach finally getting his dues. We lose a few and now we need to gut the entire team/front office/coaching staff. I'm starting to think some fans will never be happy and would find things to bitch about even with a SB win.
    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Tomlin is that good.



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  2. #62
    ® Array title="Steeldude "> Steeldude's Avatar

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    The Steelers could lose their next 20 seasons and fans here will still say keep Tomlin.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    After watching James Harrison give his take on this season and the “why” behind it, he comes across as an objective observer with a strong opinion more than an angry ex-employee with an axe to grind.

    I know he wouldn’t resist an opportunity to throw Tomlin under the bus, but his breakdown of Tomlin’s record rings true.

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    The Steelers could lose their next 20 seasons and fans here will still say keep Tomlin.
    20 seasons?

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    This whole Steelers don’t fire coaches thing has become the proverbial tail wagging the dog.

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    This whole Steelers don’t fire coaches thing has become the proverbial tail wagging the dog.

    Noll was forced out , Lebeau was forced out , Arains was forced out , lots of guys were fired ( coordinators ) some have went on to be HC elsewhere ....
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by smokin3000gt View Post
    That would be a better name for steeler fans as a whole. There is no gray area, only black and GOLD.
    there, fixed that for ya...

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    My biggest complaint on Tomlin this year is him allowing the pass-heavy attack of 67.24%, which lead the NFL. For the record, 9 out of the 12 playoff teams (as it stands now) are in the bottom half of those rankings. As a comparison, New Orleans is 29th at 53.70%. Last year when we were 13-3, we passed 59.70% (11th). It was clear that when they were on the winning streak, they were running the ball, but then he allowed the OC to go right back to throwing it all over the place (including to the other team) and we lose 4 of 5. Amazingly, the one game we won, our rushing attack was strong. It doesn't take a genius...

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    My biggest complaint on Tomlin this year is him allowing the pass-heavy attack of 67.24%, which lead the NFL. For the record, 9 out of the 12 playoff teams (as it stands now) are in the bottom half of those rankings. As a comparison, New Orleans is 29th at 53.70%. Last year when we were 13-3, we passed 59.70% (11th). It was clear that when they were on the winning streak, they were running the ball, but then he allowed the OC to go right back to throwing it all over the place (including to the other team) and we lose 4 of 5. Amazingly, the one game we won, our rushing attack was strong. It doesn't take a genius...
    You realize you have the answer to why those stats are they way they are right in your post. Running attempts do not cause winning, they correlate with it. If you are winning, you get to run the ball. Against the Steelers, because they were not winning, the Saints didn’t rush the ball all that much. So when the Steelers are not winning the game, they are not rushing the ball.

    You pass to get the lead and run to keep it in the NFL. It is something that has been taking place over the last 15 years or so and is turning over the conventional wisdom that running is the key to succcess.

    https://thepowerrank.com/2018/09/24/...ng-in-the-nfl/

    However, the insignificance of rushing in the NFL might surprise you.

    From 1997 through 2017, only 57.5% of playoff teams (145 of 252) had a positive team rush efficiency. The visual of rush efficiency for playoff teams shows a random scatter of points with both positive and negative values. A strong run game or stout rush defense has little effect in helping an NFL team win enough games to make the playoffs.

  10. #70
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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    You realize you have the answer to why those stats are they way they are right in your post. Running attempts do not cause winning, they correlate with it. If you are winning, you get to run the ball. Against the Steelers, because they were not winning, the Saints didn’t rush the ball all that much. So when the Steelers are not winning the game, they are not rushing the ball.

    You pass to get the lead and run to keep it in the NFL. It is something that has been taking place over the last 15 years or so and is turning over the conventional wisdom that running is the key to succcess.

    https://thepowerrank.com/2018/09/24/...ng-in-the-nfl/

    However, the insignificance of rushing in the NFL might surprise you.

    From 1997 through 2017, only 57.5% of playoff teams (145 of 252) had a positive team rush efficiency. The visual of rush efficiency for playoff teams shows a random scatter of points with both positive and negative values. A strong run game or stout rush defense has little effect in helping an NFL team win enough games to make the playoffs.
    I understand the passing because you're playing from behind, but I actually watched the games. They never committed to the run in the beginning and often continued to fling it when they had the lead. So, I'm not buying your one-size-fits-all answer to the arithmetic.

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    So when the Steelers are not winning the game, they are not rushing the ball.
    IMO the focus on the apparent aversion to the run was not just the % but focusing on not rushing when they have first and goal inside the 5. Sometimes that worked out (Oakland) - sometimes not (Denver)

    But damned if you do damned if you don't I suppose


  12. #72
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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    You realize you have the answer to why those stats are they way they are right in your post. Running attempts do not cause winning, they correlate with it. If you are winning, you get to run the ball. Against the Steelers, because they were not winning, the Saints didn’t rush the ball all that much. So when the Steelers are not winning the game, they are not rushing the ball.

    You pass to get the lead and run to keep it in the NFL. It is something that has been taking place over the last 15 years or so and is turning over the conventional wisdom that running is the key to succcess.

    .
    I have to disagree. Just look at the Ravens game last week and they ran it 20 times in the first half and 15 times in the second half. They beat the Chargers teams that the Steelers could not. I think you look at what Seattle has done this year with the run game and it also shows that its an important part of playing winning football games, not just holding onto a lead.

    I don't think any NFL OC goes into the game thinking they are going to pass in the first half until they get a lead and then think of running the football. (Maybe Fichtner does) But, I think they go in with a gameplan of mixing pass and run to best gain yardage and score. Once a pattern or strength has been established, they call the game according to what is working.

    Steelers are one of the most imbalanced teams in the nfl from a pass-run standpoint. They don't try and establish the run that last 6 weeks, they don't let the O linemen be aggressive in run blocking and it has resulted in giving away a sizeable lead and likely the AFC North title and a playoff berth. I think it was week 12 that an NFL commentator pointed to as the time the Steelers stopped trying to run the football and we all know the games they lost during that timeframe.

    I honestly would not be surprised if Ownership gives input on why the Steelers OC should be calling a more balanced game, or even advises it would be best if he moves on.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    I dunno. I watch the games too. I watch several other NFL games over the course of the season and maybe I read too much into the posts around here. But I think folks are describing an offense that just runs the ball to run the ball because reasons/philosophy and other than the Titans and Jaguars, I don’t see anyone doing that in the actual NFL.

    My only requirement for an offense is that it is efficient, converts majority of 3rd downs, and scores TDS in the red zones. For the bulk of the season, the team did that and did that well. Balance or whatever is pretty far down the list for me on the list of things to be concerned about.

    I honestly believe that it wasn’t a lack of running plays that caused the losses. It was not converting 3rd downs, prolonging drives, and scoring points. Combine that with turning the ball over and not stopping the other team — that is the recipe for losses.

    Hey, but I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time or the last time. But it is interesting to talk about and I don’t mean to come across (although I acknowledge that I often do!) that I have it all figured out. I just try to present my line of thinking and why I do or don’t worry about an individual aspect.

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I dunno. I watch the games too. I watch several other NFL games over the course of the season and maybe I read too much into the posts around here. But I think folks are describing an offense that just runs the ball to run the ball because reasons/philosophy and other than the Titans and Jaguars, I don’t see anyone doing that in the actual NFL.

    My only requirement for an offense is that it is efficient, converts majority of 3rd downs, and scores TDS in the red zones. For the bulk of the season, the team did that and did that well. Balance or whatever is pretty far down the list for me on the list of things to be concerned about.

    I honestly believe that it wasn’t a lack of running plays that caused the losses. It was not converting 3rd downs, prolonging drives, and scoring points. Combine that with turning the ball over and not stopping the other team — that is the recipe for losses.

    Hey, but I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time or the last time. But it is interesting to talk about and I don’t mean to come across (although I acknowledge that I often do!) that I have it all figured out. I just try to present my line of thinking and why I do or don’t worry about an individual aspect.
    I can agree with this pretty much to the word. Yet I do have concerns with this offense in the 4th quarter. Other than the Jax game, this offense either 'turtled' or committed TOs or simply did not produce, and the other guys did. To my view this offense lost multiple games for us in the 4th quarter.

    As for the other 3 quarters the offense ran fairly efficiently and looked unstoppable at times. I'm not getting into the run vs pass debate for the same reasons you posted. AND there will ALWAYS be play calls we fans will second guess. But for the most part the offense was what they needed to be.

  15. #75
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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I have to disagree. Just look at the Ravens game last week and they ran it 20 times in the first half and 15 times in the second half. They beat the Chargers teams that the Steelers could not. I think you look at what Seattle has done this year with the run game and it also shows that its an important part of playing winning football games, not just holding onto a lead.

    I don't think any NFL OC goes into the game thinking they are going to pass in the first half until they get a lead and then think of running the football. (Maybe Fichtner does) But, I think they go in with a gameplan of mixing pass and run to best gain yardage and score. Once a pattern or strength has been established, they call the game according to what is working.

    Steelers are one of the most imbalanced teams in the nfl from a pass-run standpoint. They don't try and establish the run that last 6 weeks, they don't let the O linemen be aggressive in run blocking and it has resulted in giving away a sizeable lead and likely the AFC North title and a playoff berth. I think it was week 12 that an NFL commentator pointed to as the time the Steelers stopped trying to run the football and we all know the games they lost during that timeframe.

    I honestly would not be surprised if Ownership gives input on why the Steelers OC should be calling a more balanced game, or even advises it would be best if he moves on.


    I understand what you're saying, but using the Ravens as an example is not apples to apples. They are a team with a running quarterback that is challenged in his ability to throw the football.

    Lamar Jackson had 13 of those carries for 39 yards which means that non-quarterbacks only had 22 rushes. On the season, Lamar Jackson has 127 rushing attempts for 605 yards. He has 146 pass attempts and 85 completions for 1022 yards.

    Also, running out of necessity because you can't throw the ball isn't really a fair comparison. The Raven's defense is also far better than the Steelers defense has been. It fits what they are trying to do based on the talent they have on the team and particularly the quarterback they have on the field.

    I do agree that the Steelers didn't run the ball enough times or effectively enough when Conner started to slow down later in the season. However, I really believe they were making a conscious effort to not wear down Conner because they didn't trust the depth behind him or that he was banged up. That's where the loss of Bell was huge this year. Samuels did prove that he has some ability, but Ridley is a fumble waiting to happen. Again, the dilemma of the Bell hold out reared its ugly head late in the year by exposing the lack of depth at the position. You can say that a guy like Ridley shouldn't be on the roster. If you believe that....that is on Tomlin for keeping one of his pet players that he knows has ball security issues. But it's hard to blame a coach too much when the third and fourth string RB's are carrying the load and what's behind them is NFL debris.

    Again, I agree that they should have committed to the run a little more. However, the Steelers had 18 rushes for 65 yards total. Ben had 2 rushes for 4 yards....so non-quarterbacks had 16 carries for 61 yards.

    The Ravens non-quarterbacks had 22 carries for 120 yards.

    That's a huge difference in production as the Ravens got nearly twice the yards with only 6 more carries.

    I just think a bunch of factors have added up to the team having difficulty running the football.

  16. #76
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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Keeping butler after this year following the eifert comments is itself a fireable offense

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Keeping butler after this year following the eifert comments is itself a fireable offense
    what are you talking about, Butler is 100% correct. I guarantee that the Steelers will not intercept or even break up one pass thrown in Eifert's direction this Sunday!

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Another variable to consider. Many are speculating that 8 coaches could get canned. That means you may end up scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    I mean multiple reports have it that Jim Caldwell is assembling a staff.

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    I understand what you're saying, but using the Ravens as an example is not apples to apples. They are a team with a running quarterback that is challenged in his ability to throw the football.

    Lamar Jackson had 13 of those carries for 39 yards which means that non-quarterbacks only had 22 rushes. On the season, Lamar Jackson has 127 rushing attempts for 605 yards. He has 146 pass attempts and 85 completions for 1022 yards.

    Also, running out of necessity because you can't throw the ball isn't really a fair comparison. The Raven's defense is also far better than the Steelers defense has been. It fits what they are trying to do based on the talent they have on the team and particularly the quarterback they have on the field.

    I do agree that the Steelers didn't run the ball enough times or effectively enough when Conner started to slow down later in the season. However, I really believe they were making a conscious effort to not wear down Conner because they didn't trust the depth behind him or that he was banged up. That's where the loss of Bell was huge this year. Samuels did prove that he has some ability, but Ridley is a fumble waiting to happen. Again, the dilemma of the Bell hold out reared its ugly head late in the year by exposing the lack of depth at the position. You can say that a guy like Ridley shouldn't be on the roster. If you believe that....that is on Tomlin for keeping one of his pet players that he knows has ball security issues. But it's hard to blame a coach too much when the third and fourth string RB's are carrying the load and what's behind them is NFL debris.

    Again, I agree that they should have committed to the run a little more. However, the Steelers had 18 rushes for 65 yards total. Ben had 2 rushes for 4 yards....so non-quarterbacks had 16 carries for 61 yards.

    The Ravens non-quarterbacks had 22 carries for 120 yards.

    That's a huge difference in production as the Ravens got nearly twice the yards with only 6 more carries.

    I just think a bunch of factors have added up to the team having difficulty running the football.
    Yes, I understand that a running QB like Jackson isn't the norm in the NFL and as you point out, the Ravens still gained 120 yards on 22 carries last week from RB's other than Lamar Jackson. Similarly, the Seahawks have managed to run the football effectively and put themselves in a playoff position with good QB play and a solid running game. If you want to compare the Ravens with Flacco, then look at the Steelers game vs them, where the Ravens won by running the football 30 times and the Steelers something like 11 rushes(1 was Ben).

    I can only think of Marshall Yanda and maybe Sweezy as solid O linemen on either the Seahawks or Ravens, yet they manage to run the football effectively with a bunch of RB's that I would not consider marquee players. The Steelers have 3 Pro Bowl Offensive Linemen and yet they manage to have the 3rd worst amount of rushing attempts and the 2nd worse rushing offense in the NFL??? Depth at the RB position means nothing, when you have one of the best Offensive Lines in the NFL. You can plug anybody in there and be productive(Samuels, Ridley, CJ Anderson, etc).

    Fact is that the Steelers Offense is the most imbalanced in the NFL and Randy Fichtner could have playcalled the team to wins vs the Broncos and Chargers by running the football more than he did. I'm not saying a run heavy offense, but I bet Mike Munchak is wishing that his guys got more work in the run game than they have the last 5-6 weeks.

  20. #80
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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    I guess AJRII will have to make another public statement about running the ball more as he did a few years ago.

    https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...s/201001150244


    "I don't think we're in a blow-it-up, start-over mode," Rooney said. wonder if he still feels that way?



    I believe the Steelers are running the ball less now than in 2009 (42.2%) and if I'm correct we are at 32.76% now?


    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-play-pct




    Last edited by Shoes; 12-28-2018 at 06:54 PM.

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    what are you talking about, Butler is 100% correct. I guarantee that the Steelers will not intercept or even break up one pass thrown in Eifert's direction this Sunday!
    LOL

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    for those voting yes, remember that not once has Tomlin ever had a losing season. if we fired him, Tomlin would immediately become the most sought after head coaching candidate for other NFL teams.
    John fox was once fired and the most sought after HC too

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    John fox was once fired and the most sought after HC too
    so was Bill Belicheat...

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    #1 in passing yards of of today - Big Ben

    #4 in receiving yards as of today - JuJu

    #9 in receiving yards as of today -A.B

    #12 rushing as of today James Conner ( and that's with missing several games )

    #4 in total points in the league - Pittsburgh

    #3 team in NFL for TD's - Pittsburgh

    YET
    number 18 defense in points allowed
    given up the 17th most yards via the pass ( middle of the pack )
    given up the 27th most yards via the run ( top 6 in league )

    so as badly as we look at this defense its not been atrocious just not up to our standards

    no reason in the world good enough to have one of the league premier offenses and a middle of the road defense and not have a team in the playoffs NONE ZERO ZILCH
    QFT

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    so was Bill Belicheat...
    I don't remembered people clamoring to get cheater but I could be wrong. All the pundits said fox would be hired in days and it was less than that. Twice I think. And he sucked

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    I don't remembered people clamoring to get cheater but I could be wrong. All the pundits said fox would be hired in days and it was less than that. Twice I think. And he sucked

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    John Fox coached 2 SBs. One for the Panthers and one for the Broncos. His defenses were usually ranked in the top 10, even on his terrible Bears teams. Fox is a very good coach. He just wasn't successful in Chicago. Don't be surprised if you hear his name mentioned again this off season as teams fire and hire coaches.

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    I don't remembered people clamoring to get cheater but I could be wrong. All the pundits said fox would be hired in days and it was less than that. Twice I think. And he sucked
    It is what it is, obviously John Fox lives in his fears above the neck and doesn't utilize teachable moments and learning experiences. Tomlin is not in the business of making excuses, the standard is the standard. Such is life of winning games in the National Football League, that's how we measure success and we're excited about that.

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    John Fox coached 2 SBs. One for the Panthers and one for the Broncos. His defenses were usually ranked in the top 10, even on his terrible Bears teams. Fox is a very good coach. He just wasn't successful in Chicago. Don't be surprised if you hear his name mentioned again this off season as teams fire and hire coaches.
    2 losers one really bad. Manning carried fox in Denver. Fox did decent work with Panthers but he wore out . I don't see Tomlin doing anything after Steelers.

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    It is what it is, obviously John Fox lives in his fears above the neck and doesn't utilize teachable moments and learning experiences. Tomlin is not in the business of making excuses, the standard is the standard. Such is life of winning games in the National Football League, that's how we measure success and we're excited about that.
    This is actually quite correct as I remember it. Fox was famous in the Carolinas for making lousy in game decisions and he carried that to Denver.

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    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Poll: Do you think Mike Tomlin should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    2 losers one really bad. Manning carried fox in Denver. Fox did decent work with Panthers but he wore out . I don't see Tomlin doing anything after Steelers.

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    I guess that depends on how long Tomlin stays with the Steelers.

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