The New Orleans Saints- Send in your game plan

[tube517]

unfortunately for us they are not #1 against the run volumetrically. Theyre right at the top in YPC too.

There is a tomlinism somewhere in there.

[86WARD]

So if you are kicking their ass in the passing game then they are fresh and loading the box waiting to kill the run?

No. They’re taking less of a physical pounding up front of the offense is passing. If the offense is running, the defense is wearing down more and more as the drive/game goes on.

[86WARD]

score first , score last and score every time they score ...

seriously ... pressure and mixed coverage's much like what we did this past week ....

cant let the RBs beat you while trying to stop Brees so some run blitz should be in the mix as well and the front 7 will have to be more mindful of the run this week .....

Saints are a very good run stopping team 2nd in the league in YPC against so screen passes will have to help fill the void of an actual run game provided we can not get one going ( and we might we have a stellar line )

Kamara out of the backfield as a receiver will be a major problem as backs have been this season..,unless they fixed something...lol.

[Mojouw]

No. They’re taking less of a physical pounding up front of the offense is passing. If the offense is running, the defense is wearing down more and more as the drive/game goes on.

Has anyone ever attempted to see if this is true? Are we sure pass rushing isn't tiring? If you rush the passer 35 times and then have to set the edge on a pulling guard, is that somehow easier than after 28 running plays?

I feel like this might just be received football wisdom that no one actually stops to consider.

For years all I heard was running the ball equals winning. But that actually stopped being true decades ago. And for some time now, passing to get the lead and then running was what was taking place and everyone kind of ignored it.

Defending all the motion, receivers, and rushing the passer has to take a toll. Maybe as much as imposing your will and running the ball. Plus pass focused attacks tend to play at a higher pace so less time between snaps and more plays per possession (assuming you convert into first downs).

[HollywoodSteel]

Has anyone ever attempted to see if this is true? Are we sure pass rushing isn't tiring? If you rush the passer 35 times and then have to set the edge on a pulling guard, is that somehow easier than after 28 running plays?

I feel like this might just be received football wisdom that no one actually stops to consider.

For years all I heard was running the ball equals winning. But that actually stopped being true decades ago. And for some time now, passing to get the lead and then running was what was taking place and everyone kind of ignored it.

Defending all the motion, receivers, and rushing the passer has to take a toll. Maybe as much as imposing your will and running the ball. Plus pass focused attacks tend to play at a higher pace so less time between snaps and more plays per possession (assuming you convert into first downs).

Everything you are saying makes sense, but the only intuitive advantage of SUCCESSFUL running over SUCCESSFUL passing I can think of is time of possession. If after 3 quarters their defense has been on the field way more than half the time, that’s certainly going to wear a defense down more than if all of your scoring drives occurred far quicker.

I’m not sure about the actual physical strain on run defense vs. pass defense. Perhaps the interior defensive lineman get crashed into harder and pushed around more when facing a successful running game.

Also maybe it has something to do with CONTINUING to do the same exact thing over and over for four straight quarters that wears a defense down more than defending against one thing and then the other. Since a team with a lead tends to run more towards the end of the game, the fact that they’ve been doing the same thing, and straining the defense in the same way, THAT’S why the defense would be more tired than if the offense had just been doing something different earlier.

But these are just guesses off the top of my head.

[Mojouw]

Everything you are saying makes sense, but the only intuitive advantage of SUCCESSFUL running over SUCCESSFUL passing I can think of is time of possession. If after 3 quarters their defense has been on the field way more than half the time, that’s certainly going to wear a defense down more than if all of your scoring drives occurred far quicker.

I’m not sure about the actual physical strain on run defense vs. pass defense. Perhaps the interior defensive lineman get crashed into harder and pushed around more when facing a successful running game.

Also maybe it has something to do with CONTINUING to do the same exact thing over and over for four straight quarters that wears a defense down more than defending against one thing and then the other. Since a team with a lead tends to run more towards the end of the game, the fact that they’ve been doing the same thing, and straining the defense in the same way, THAT’S why the defense would be more tired than if the offense had just been doing something different earlier.

But these are just guesses off the top of my head.

I think your on to something with time of possession.

I wonder what those rankings look like. Maybe I'll poke around. See what I find.

[fansince'76]

I haven't seen the Saints play at all this year so I honestly have no idea what to expect. Good posts, everyone.

[Dwinsgames]

Has anyone ever attempted to see if this is true? Are we sure pass rushing isn't tiring? If you rush the passer 35 times and then have to set the edge on a pulling guard, is that somehow easier than after 28 running plays?

I feel like this might just be received football wisdom that no one actually stops to consider.

For years all I heard was running the ball equals winning. But that actually stopped being true decades ago. And for some time now, passing to get the lead and then running was what was taking place and everyone kind of ignored it.

Defending all the motion, receivers, and rushing the passer has to take a toll. Maybe as much as imposing your will and running the ball. Plus pass focused attacks tend to play at a higher pace so less time between snaps and more plays per possession (assuming you convert into first downs).

1) pass blocking you are not colliding with the defender with aggression you are dropping back and setting up shop to protect more standing your ground and movement and legs and arm work ....

2) run blocking you are propelling your body into the defender as violently as you can and mauling with them you are wanting to stay on his body he is trying to force you off so he can make a play ....

2 would be far more physically demanding than 1 if for no other reason you are grappling with a 300 pound man play after play and if you do get free now you are trying to run down a guy who should be much faster than you that has the advantage of already being on the move while you are coming off a standstill ....

weigh down a coat to 300 pounds , put it on and walk around for a a little bit see how tiring that is that is run blocking without the violent collisions of two 300 pound men colliding at the LOS

[Mojouw]

1) pass blocking you are not colliding with the defender with aggression you are dropping back and setting up shop to protect more standing your ground and movement and legs and arm work ....

2) run blocking you are propelling your body into the defender as violently as you can and mauling with them you are wanting to stay on his body he is trying to force you off so he can make a play ....

2 would be far more physically demanding than 1 if for no other reason you are grappling with a 300 pound man play after play and if you do get free now you are trying to run down a guy who should be much faster than you that has the advantage of already being on the move while you are coming off a standstill ....

weigh down a coat to 300 pounds , put it on and walk around for a a little bit see how tiring that is that is run blocking without the violent collisions of two 300 pound men colliding at the LOS

I get that. But I am not sure that I buy that is significantly more tiring than defending the pass.

In pass rush, the offensive guy is not crashing into you, but you are crashing into them. So throw yourself into a wall after a small sprint then pick yourself up and sprint 10 yards in a random direction chasing the play - is that really better than having a loaded refrigerator hurled at you? Both sound pretty much like they are going to wear your ass out.

On top of that, what about pace of play. Running teams tend to huddle up and use large swaths of the play clock. In general passing teams play faster. So you have 15-20 seconds between plays instead of 30-35.

Really interesting that there is only a weak correlation between "running teams" and TOP: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...sion-net-of-ot and https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...empts-per-game

Like I said earlier, it may be true that running is just more wearing on a defense. But I can't shake the idea that it could also just be one of those things people say because they have heard it so much from announcers, coaches, etc and does anyone know if it is actually true?

[86WARD]

Has anyone ever attempted to see if this is true? Are we sure pass rushing isn't tiring? If you rush the passer 35 times and then have to set the edge on a pulling guard, is that somehow easier than after 28 running plays?

I feel like this might just be received football wisdom that no one actually stops to consider.

For years all I heard was running the ball equals winning. But that actually stopped being true decades ago. And for some time now, passing to get the lead and then running was what was taking place and everyone kind of ignored it.

Defending all the motion, receivers, and rushing the passer has to take a toll. Maybe as much as imposing your will and running the ball. Plus pass focused attacks tend to play at a higher pace so less time between snaps and more plays per possession (assuming you convert into first downs).

During that Jaguars game when Jacksonville was running that ball time and time, you could see that front seven getting winded and tired. When Jags went away from the run the defense started to come back to life...maybe just a coincidence?

[Mojouw]

During that Jaguars game when Jacksonville was running that ball time and time, you could see that front seven getting winded and tired. When Jags went away from the run the defense started to come back to life...maybe just a coincidence?

Maybe not. Like I said, I don't know and this would probably be far easier to answer and likely not a question if I had played the game.

I think I just have an instinctual reaction to question all the standard cliched bits of "wisdom" because many of them can be demonstrated to no longer apply to how the NFL game is being played currently. It doesn't mean that they were not once true, it just means they are not any longer.

[AtlantaDan]

I think your on to something with time of possession.

I wonder what those rankings look like. Maybe I'll poke around. See what I find.

FYI are some stats

Ravens first in league at time of possession at 32:05 - no surprise since Jackson took over and the Ravens went run heavy

Saints second at 31:59

Steelers 14th at 30:15 (down from 31:55 in 2017 under Coach Todd when Steelers were 4th in TOP)

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...sion-net-of-ot

Ravens also first in yards allowed per game (290.1)

Steelers actually better in yards allowed per game (333.5 - 9th) than Saints (341.6- 11th)

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...yards-per-game

With ball control offense and best yards allowed defense, surprised Ravens 12th in opponents plays per game (61.5 - 12th), which I would regard as tied to defense getting tired since the more plays you have to defend the more physical exertion expended (as seen in defense getting gassed at end of long drive)

Steelers 16th at 62.9 opponent's plays per game

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...plays-per-game