STEELERS NEWS Steelers Bring In Former Giants, Jets, Colts LB Coach To Help Defense Prepare For Patriots

[Dwinsgames]

These problems have plagued the Steelers for the last 5-6 Seasons, the Rooneys finally realized Tomlin and his incompetent staff couldn't get it done so they had to bring in someone who has a clue. I dont see anyone complaining more pointing out obvious flaws that the current coaching staff is incapable of repairing. I think the majority of fans and media has finally recognized that Mike Tomlin is a mediocre coach who inherited a very good team but has failed to rebuild successfully.

to a point perhaps But by the time Tomlin went to his second SB with the steelers there were very few Cowher holdovers ....

that said I think this problem is above Tomlin and his staff ( not that they are not a big part of it )

it all starts with drafting , Colbert has not been able to identify quality talent at the corner pos and quite frankly the jury is still out in terms of safeties as Davis isnt a great measuring stick , Shamarko stunk and really nobody prior was worth his salt either ...

secondary issues have plagued this team since Colbert arrived and have never truly been solved ...

now the question remains is it lack of talent or lack of development by the coaching staff or some combination of both ... I am putting my money on the later ...

many of us here were big fans of Desmond King we let him get past us 4 times and took Sutton in round 3 ... King is making waves Sutton cant cover his own ass ..... so is it Identifying the talent or refining it ??

[pepsyman1]

secondary issues have plagued this team since Colbert arrived and have never truly been solved ...

now the question remains is it lack of talent or lack of development by the coaching staff or some combination of both ... I am putting my money on the later ...

many of us here were big fans of Desmond King we let him get past us 4 times and took Sutton in round 3 ... King is making waves Sutton cant cover his own ass ..... so is it Identifying the talent or refining it ??

I gotta believe the majority of it has to be the coaching at this point. I can't wrap my head around the idea that we are capable of identifying talent at all the other positions but DB's. We've drafted and developed some very good and in some cases exceptional players just about everywhere else on the field over the last 5-6 years. I can't believe all the secondary picks were crap.

[Craic]

Okay,

So, here's a question. Is it that drafting itself is bad or is it that drafting in the lower half of each round is bad? We know the Steelers don't usually trade out of picks and seldom trade up for picks. So, within that method, what was left to draft that made sense in that round for CBs?

Now, I will not state this is the only problem. In fact, I'd say it's coupled with high-risk, high-rewards draft picks in the first and second round. Those have hit in most places, but not for our DBs. So, is it position + philosophy? I mean, you can only coach a player so much if they don't have the ability or the intellect.

[st33lersguy]

There's nothing quite like bringing outside help after many years because you can't fix the problem yourself. Will Tomlin bring in someone to give him advice on managing the clock, challenging, preparing for NFL dregs, firing/benching clearly incompetent people?

[Dwinsgames]

Okay,

So, here's a question. Is it that drafting itself is bad or is it that drafting in the lower half of each round is bad? We know the Steelers don't usually trade out of picks and seldom trade up for picks. So, within that method, what was left to draft that made sense in that round for CBs?

Now, I will not state this is the only problem. In fact, I'd say it's coupled with high-risk, high-rewards draft picks in the first and second round. Those have hit in most places, but not for our DBs. So, is it position + philosophy? I mean, you can only coach a player so much if they don't have the ability or the intellect.

I mean nobody can be certain without being in the war room ...

But we passed on desmond king 4 times ( so did many other teams so there is that ... )

but why are we hear able to see this kid and say you know what he is a second round quality player and he fills a need ... ( double bonus )

he gets drafted and is kicking ass for the Chargers 30 games played 127 tackles 4 sacks 15 passes defensed 4 ints 2 TDs and 165 int return yards AND plays special teams as a kick and punt returner ( as we witnessed first hand ) because he took one to the house vs us ......

( king is 1 example )

[Craic]

There's nothing quite like bringing outside help after many years because you can't fix the problem yourself. Will Tomlin bring in someone to give him advice on managing the clock, challenging, preparing for NFL dregs, firing/benching clearly incompetent people?

Okay, all snarkyness and whatever else aside, I really don't get this attitude. I hear everyone upset that Tomlin doesn't do anything to fix the problem. So, Tomlin brings in the coaches of teams that have beat the Pats* in the past or have seen them as much or more than we have, and he gets ripped on for that as well. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

[pepsyman1]

Okay,

So, here's a question. Is it that drafting itself is bad or is it that drafting in the lower half of each round is bad? We know the Steelers don't usually trade out of picks and seldom trade up for picks. So, within that method, what was left to draft that made sense in that round for CBs?

Now, I will not state this is the only problem. In fact, I'd say it's coupled with high-risk, high-rewards draft picks in the first and second round. Those have hit in most places, but not for our DBs. So, is it position + philosophy? I mean, you can only coach a player so much if they don't have the ability or the intellect.

I don't know that we will ever know for sure but at this point I've got to believe at least a big part of it has to be the coaching. I've got TWO reasons to believe this. 1). We've successfully drafted for EVERYWHERE else on the field. Obviously we've had our Jarvis Jones misses but we've also had our TJ Watt successes. We've had good lineman drafted on both sides of the ball. Good specialty position players... just NO ONE has worked out in the secondary. 2). Just look at the offensive line. We had most of these guys before Munchak got here and they consistently underperformed. Now it's considered to be one of the best lines in the game. Same guys....it's not like we snuck in Dermonti Dawson and Alan Faneca.

[Craic]

I don't know that we will ever know for sure but at this point I've got to believe at least a big part of it has to be the coaching. I've got TWO reasons to believe this. 1). We've successfully drafted for EVERYWHERE else on the field. Obviously we've had our Jarvis Jones misses but we've also had our TJ Watt successes. We've had good lineman drafted on both sides of the ball. Good specialty position players... just NO ONE has worked out in the secondary. 2). Just look at the offensive line. We had most of these guys before Munchak got here and they consistently underperformed. Now it's considered to be one of the best lines in the game. Same guys....it's not like we snuck in Dermonti Dawson and Alan Faneca.

So, what you're saying is we need a DB Whisperer. I can agree with that. The question is, who? I'm not up on DB coaches. Who do you think might work?

[pczach]

Okay, all snarkyness and whatever else aside, I really don't get this attitude. I hear everyone upset that Tomlin doesn't do anything to fix the problem. So, Tomlin brings in the coaches of teams that have beat the Pats* in the past or have seen them as much or more than we have, and he gets ripped on for that as well. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I've always been a pro-Tomlin guy. I support him, and I have believed in him....but this situation feels different to me.

On the surface, bringing in someone to help with an upcoming game doesn't seem to be a bad idea. The problem is, how much are they going to accomplish in a short period of time? The other thing that is really troubling to me is....this is something that should have been done to help the defense out against everyone....not just the Patriots. The film is there if the coaching staff wants to see what the Giants did to the Patriots to beat them. They shouldn't need an emergency visit to figure that out. It just feels like they rushed this whole thing because ownership demanded action. If the coaching staff can't see what is or isn't working...something is seriously wrong.

When outside coaches are brought in, it is usually done in the preseason and it's usually to discuss philosophies, technique, or to teach something completely new. It also is something that is introduced, explained, and then worked on over time.

The whole thing just feels forced, and a little strange.

What happens now if they get the blueprint to attack the Patriots from the guru and they lay another egg or do the same shit they have been doing against them for years?

[Dwinsgames]

if you have to bring in outside coaches to figure out what you can watch and break down in a few hours then what does that say about your current staff ? guys YOU hired , guys you have kept for years .....

that seat must be mighty hot ......

this is a grasping at straws move if there ever was one ...

year in year out ( well not exactly because we do not always play them ) the Pats beat the Steelers for over a decade and almost always with a lessor roster ....

coaching matters and we have been on the short end of it for a long time

[st33lersguy]

Okay, all snarkyness and whatever else aside, I really don't get this attitude. I hear everyone upset that Tomlin doesn't do anything to fix the problem. So, Tomlin brings in the coaches of teams that have beat the Pats* in the past or have seen them as much or more than we have, and he gets ripped on for that as well. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Yep cause clearly figuring it out on his own is clearly not an option or anything

[cold-hard-steel]

I've always stood up and supported Tomlin,and can't remember saying anything really negative about him.Not that i can recall anyway.That being said, i have been scrutinizing his demeanor recently and i seem to detect an air of uncertainty about him as of late.How could he be satisfied with the bed they have made?I believe he realizes that the straights are indeed dire.

[Craic]

To me it says the opposite of what I've been hearing. It says Tomlin isn't arrogant. He realizes he needs help. Don't forget, a very good reason we lost all those games is because we have drafted and fielded teams for years predicated on a type of zone defense, and Brady eats up zone defenses. We've tried shifting to man, but it didn't work because we didn't have the players.

Of course, this week we take someone who might be a decent to good coverage player (and simply sucks at zone or other types of coverage) in Burns and reactivate him, and everyone freaks out. Now, if I see him in zone coverage on more than 10 or 15 percent of plays, then it's a stupid move (unless he somehow has gotten his head screwed on straight). But to bring him in for man coverage? Sure. There's nothing on tape that I know of that says he can't play man coverage.

So now, we have at least three CBs that can play man coverage. We still have a problem covering their TE. We've also gradually moved to faster LBs and have at least one quality OLB. I have no problem bringing people in and asking, "Tell me what I'm not seeing."

Who knows, this may even be tryouts for the next DC.

[Born2Steel]

Was it a Lebeau problem? Is it a Butler problem? OR...Is it an NFL defense problem? Two dominant defenses from just last year look very much pitiful this year. Talking about the Jags and Vikes. How about those Eagles. Know who IS dominating the league this year? Rams and a suspect defense, Chiefs and a suspect defense, Saints and a suspect defense. Not sure the Cowboys even field DBs. The Ravens have a top rated defense and are parting with their HC at the end of the season. Think there may be a big picture here some of you may be missing. When our offense is clicking, the Steelers WIN. Simple as that.

[Fire Goodell]

We need to find the Mike Munchak of DBs

[teegre]

I mean nobody can be certain without being in the war room ...

But we passed on desmond king 4 times ( so did many other teams so there is that ... )

but why are we hear able to see this kid and say you know what he is a second round quality player and he fills a need ... ( double bonus )

he gets drafted and is kicking ass for the Chargers 30 games played 127 tackles 4 sacks 15 passes defensed 4 ints 2 TDs and 165 int return yards AND plays special teams as a kick and punt returner ( as we witnessed first hand ) because he took one to the house vs us ......

( king is 1 example )

I was high on Sutton (still am). But, Yes, maybe King might have been a better choice.

Then again, it is kind of difficult to call that draft a bad draft when they got TJ Watt, JuJu, Conner, and (to a degree) Dobbs. Yeah, after saying it out loud, I’m not going to say it’s a bad draft... although, Yes, it could have been “better”.

[Dwinsgames]

I was high on Sutton (still am). But, Yes, maybe King might have been a better choice.

Then again, it is kind of difficult to call that draft a bad draft when they got TJ Watt, JuJu, Conner, and (to a degree) Dobbs. Yeah, after saying it out loud, I’m not going to say it’s a bad draft... although, Yes, it could have been “better”.

I look at draft picks as commodities .... Great I am Glad you made money on corn , you did well with wheat too awesome .... rice was a home run for you , that is incredible ..... etc etc ...wait you lost your ass on pig bellies and it wiped out your gains everywhere else .... that sucks now you can't afford to go to the convention dang .........

[teegre]

I look at draft picks as commodities .... Great I am Glad you made money on corn , you did well with wheat too awesome .... rice was a home run for you , that is incredible ..... etc etc ...wait you lost your ass on pig bellies and it wiped out your gains everywhere else .... that sucks now you can't afford to go to the convention dang .........

Portfilio... diversified... 4 vs. 1 gained... putting me well into the black.

[Born2Steel]

Football is football. You draft players to make your 'team' better. You don't need or want all stars at every single position. Last draft Quinten Nelson was the "BPA" of the entire draft. He got passed because 'teams' had other needs/wants to make their 'team' better. Bringing in a defensive position coach with 3 games left and fighting for the division and a playoff spot is just football too. This move is to make the 'team' better. Make no mistake these last 3 games are crucial. Steelers are still in this and have a good enough team(there's that word again) to take it all the way. I am all in for this move. What was, was not working. You can get all wrapped up in coaching and drafting philosophies and who's better than who. It comes down to football and team. Execute your assignment, make tackles, play football.

[Dwinsgames]

Portfilio... diversified... 4 vs. 1 gained... putting me well into the black.

but the one you lost on was the one you needed to win on the most ......

[teegre]

but the one you lost on was the one you needed to win on the most ......

It was my third choice of investments. The middle of five. The first two were much bigger, more important... and they both have done far better than that Desmond King stock did. Heck, the JuJu stock alone has set me up for a decade.

[Mojouw]

Who is good at drafting DBs? Where is there an ironclad secondary anywhere in the league?

The 3-4 typically de emphasized CBs because they focused on pass rush and defending the short routes and crossers featured in a Bill Walsh style passing attack by dropping unexpected defenders into zones.

Now offense has evolved and is isolating and defeating those front 7 players placed in coverage.

I'm watching games so far this week and no one has a pass de5ense that looks any good. What impactful defenses have that the Steelers lack are playmakers. Mediocre CBs are not the problem. The lack of an elite level talent is.

[Lady Steel]

To me it says the opposite of what I've been hearing. It says Tomlin isn't arrogant. He realizes he needs help. Don't forget, a very good reason we lost all those games is because we have drafted and fielded teams for years predicated on a type of zone defense, and Brady eats up zone defenses. We've tried shifting to man, but it didn't work because we didn't have the players.

Of course, this week we take someone who might be a decent to good coverage player (and simply sucks at zone or other types of coverage) in Burns and reactivate him, and everyone freaks out. Now, if I see him in zone coverage on more than 10 or 15 percent of plays, then it's a stupid move (unless he somehow has gotten his head screwed on straight). But to bring him in for man coverage? Sure. There's nothing on tape that I know of that says he can't play man coverage.

So now, we have at least three CBs that can play man coverage. We still have a problem covering their TE. We've also gradually moved to faster LBs and have at least one quality OLB. I have no problem bringing people in and asking, "Tell me what I'm not seeing."

Who knows, this may even be tryouts for the next DC.

Wrong! Tomlin is very arrogant. He always has been and always will be. He's also a dumbass.

Who said it was Tomlin who brought in help? It was more than likely the Rooneys who told Tomlin to do so, or did it themselves and told Tomlin they didn't give a crap if he liked it or not, deal with it!

[Mach1]

If your head coach needs to bring in someone to help him coach then there is something very wrong.

[Born2Steel]

If your head coach needs to bring in someone to help him coach then there is something very wrong.

That is exactly what a coaches staff is there to do. Is the negative reaction to this particular hire due to it being so late in the season instead of during the preseason? I don't understand, every move is made to try to win games. That is the goal is it not? This move is no different. I know I am quoting your last post, but my question is directed at ALL of the negativity surrounding this hire. To me a good coach knows when and where he needs help and moves to get that help.

[cubanstogie]

If your head coach needs to bring in someone to help him coach then there is something very wrong.

Tomlin is at least aware that the coaching staff needs a tutor. Still time to pass the class.

[NCSteeler]

Even if that's the case. Tomlin has been around long enough, gotten new contracts and extensions, etc., at this point as a head coach: WHY would you continue to work that way if that was the case? I don't think Tomlin is a great coach, but I think he's a good one. If he got fired tomorrow, another team in need would hire him pretty quickly. Knowing that, if he accepts the situation and the way the coaching staff around him is put together, that's on HIM. Accepting that from ownership I would understand when he first took the job. He was a new, YOUNG head coach. We're not in that time anymore. Grow a set and make the necessary changes. We're not talking about a mid level corporation job where you're worried about making too much noise and losing your job. The HC is the guy who's held accountable. After 11 years, MAN UP!

Oh John fox got scooped quickly twice, now no one will touch him. Still a bad coach

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[fansince'76]

Might be time to look at Jim Herrman as DC on a more permanent basis...

[86WARD]

Might be time to look at Jim Herrman as DC on a more permanent basis...

Lol. Right?

[fansince'76]

Lol. Right?

Cover Gronk? Whoda thunk it?