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Thread: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

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    Senior Member Array title="StillCurtains is a glorious beacon of light">

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    Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Unfortunately this team is going nowhere fast and it will be that way for quite some time.

    Offensively they have lots of talent, but it takes on the personality of our QB. Sloppy, careless and not understanding the importance of situational football.

    Ben doesnít seem to value the importance of taking care of the football. Itís to the point that you expect him to turn it over every game now. The fact that he continues to do this in the redzone is alarming.

    However, this is about the defense. To start this off, Butler should have been let go like yesterday. The fact that you have Bostic, an ILB that is only serviceable at best against the run, on the oppositionís best WR for most of the game is idiotic. Did the Chargers pay him to do this? Enough said there. He needs to go.

    Also their draft philosophy needs to change. We had hits with high defensive draft picks with Heyward, Tuitt, Hargraves, Shazier and Watt. When you have high draft picks, getting a serviceable player is a miss in my opinion.

    At OLB, we picked Worilds, Sylvester, Jones, Dupree and Watt. Worilds was serviceable and so is Dupree to some degree, but I feel that they are all misses besides Watt. We continue to pick these tweener type OLBís that lack strength vs tackles and a nasty attitude to blow up tackles. Being nasty is a big part in playing the OLB position.

    In the secondary we pick Davis, Burns, Sutton, and Edmunds. Davis and Sutton are serviceable at best which counts to me as a miss. Burns has turned out to be a bust and I have to say I never liked the Edmunds pick in that spot.

    Edmunds may prove me wrong, but Iím doubtful. In the secondary, Colbert and Tomlin feel they can pick fast, athletic, less experienced, raw, hybrid type players and coach them up. It hasnít worked yet! The hybrid philosophy needs to go. If you want a safety, pick a seasoned one in college that is good at THAT position. Quit picking guys that are spending half of their college careers playing different positions as an experiment.

    If you want a CB, pick a seasoned one that can play the position. You are drafting high taking raw less experienced guys looking to coach them up. In my opinion, you donít coach up players to make them BECOME a certain position.

    You fine tune the player at that position into the pro level. The player should already know how to play the position you drafted them as. The Steelers try to coach them into the position from scratch. The game has changed and when you also donít draft players with cover and ball skills in the secondary, that will translate the same on the field.

    When we had Harrison, Woodley, Hampton, Troy, Clark, Ike and those guys, our defense got turnovers from an elite, fumble causing pass rush, picks by Troy and hard hitting all around. Now that the league has cracked down on bone jarring hits, the Steelers canít generate the turnovers they used to. They also donít have a talent like Troy to get picks in the secondary.

    This is why the Steelers donít generate turnovers. They donít draft ball skill players. That is what is needed in this league today. When you have guys that can take it away in the secondary like Woodson, it makes QBís hesitate to throw it out there in respect that it will get picked. That split second of hesitation can turn into a sack.

    When you continuosly pick low in the draft, you have to make moves in the draft to go get players like William Jackson lll. Theyíre not going to fall to you. The Steelers like to hold on to having more picks. However, the players they selected with those multiple picks for the secondary has been garbage. The Steelers need to figure it out, or constantly be a one and done playoff team.
    Last edited by StillCurtains; 12-03-2018 at 02:05 PM.

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    Senior Member Array title="Ezra Tank is a splendid one to behold">

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    We need ball hawks. This team has none of them, the problem is it's hard to draft guys like this because they only come along so often. Guys like Troy Polamalu and Rod Woodson are not a dime a dozen.

    That said if the Jags really want to move Ramsey the Steelers should be all over that.

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra Tank View Post
    We need ball hawks. This team has none of them, the problem is it's hard to draft guys like this because they only come along so often. Guys like Troy Polamalu and Rod Woodson are not a dime a dozen.

    That said if the Jags really want to move Ramsey the Steelers should be all over that.

    Getting a player like Ramsey would just transform this team's defense.

    Look how much worse the defense gets every time Haden isn't on the field. Could you imagine having a guy like Ramsey on the other side of Haden? You could have Ramsey following the best WR's all over the field in man coverage, and play the rest of the field with the other players including a very solid veteran like Haden. The defense would take a huge leap forward, and Ramsey would get INT's with the pressure they get on quarterbacks.

    They need more playmakers. What sucks is that Shazier was that guy. What happened is nobody's fault. It's just that it created a huge void from a skillset and turnover perspective. Guys like that just aren't that easy to find. His loss has set the defense back, because they were really building something. They drafted Watt, and the thought of having this year's Watt with a healthy, explosive Shazier is exciting. It's just never going to happen now. When you add this entire Bell situation and taking up all that cap space into the equation, and not being able to use that money on a player or players that fit the description of what we are talking about here.....it starts to explain some of the defensive struggles.

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    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra Tank View Post
    That said if the Jags really want to move Ramsey the Steelers should be all over that.
    You, sir, have piqued my interest!!!

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra Tank View Post
    We need ball hawks. This team has none of them, the problem is it's hard to draft guys like this because they only come along so often. Guys like Troy Polamalu and Rod Woodson are not a dime a dozen.

    That said if the Jags really want to move Ramsey the Steelers should be all over that.
    Theyíd rather take a first round pick and burn it on a shitty CB project...theyíd be better off giving a first and third from 2019 and a first from 2020 and sign Ramsey using the Bell money.




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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    I agree. Ramsey is a young proven talent who wants a shot at a Superbowl. As long as Bortles is starting for the Jags that's never happening. If the Ramsey rumors are true you easily give up next year's #1 for him.

    Plus if they get him it would cut Ben's INT total in half every year.

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    I don't like Ramsey's attitude but that guy is a baller, sign him if he's available. I don't care if he kicks handicapped puppies for fun, if we win it's all good

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    So how much would you guys give up:

    I figure it would take AT Least 2019 #1, 2020#1, and 2019 2nd or 3rd. That is likely the "khalil mack" style deal that the Jags would need to hear to move Ramsey.

    I kinda think I do it. Although it has a chance of leaving the cupboard pretty bare 3 seasons later.

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    A 2019 1 and 2020 2nd and 4th. Anything else is to much IMO.

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue View Post
    A 2019 1 and 2020 2nd and 4th. Anything else is to much IMO.
    That certainly looks better, but I don't think the Jags go for that little of a return. But you never know!

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    That certainly looks better, but I don't think the Jags go for that little of a return. But you never know!
    If they turn it down, that's when you use your ace in a hole and throw in Artie Burns lol.

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    We don't create turnovers cause not enough dong sacks

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    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    So how much would you guys give up:

    I figure it would take AT Least 2019 #1, 2020#1, and 2019 2nd or 3rd. That is likely the "khalil mack" style deal that the Jags would need to hear to move Ramsey.

    I kinda think I do it. Although it has a chance of leaving the cupboard pretty bare 3 seasons later.
    Ramsey wants out. (Whereas, Mack just wanted a new contract.)

    The Jags know that Ramsey is gone if they don’t trade him... which would give them only a R3 come pick. So, they’re more likely to take a little less, in order to get more than that for a disgruntled player.

    I’d say: R1 & R2 in 2019... done deal.

    For those not wanting to give up two picks, remember that the draft is a crapshoot; most players do not pan out. And, trading up into the top ten (where a player of Ramsey’s caliber would be drafted) would cost much, much more than a R1 & a R2 pick.

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    So how much would you guys give up:

    I figure it would take AT Least 2019 #1, 2020#1, and 2019 2nd or 3rd. That is likely the "khalil mack" style deal that the Jags would need to hear to move Ramsey.

    I kinda think I do it. Although it has a chance of leaving the cupboard pretty bare 3 seasons later.
    The guy is only 24 years old. I would do it in a second.

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    We don 't the TO's because are secondary is bad.

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    For those not wanting to give up two picks, remember that the draft is a crapshoot; most players do not pan out. And, trading up into the top ten (where a player of Ramsey’s caliber would be drafted) would cost much, much more than a R1 & a R2 pick.
    I have no problem with it personally because I know that unless we've gotten supremely lucky with Dobbs and/or Rudolph, the SB window slams shut for a while once Roethlisberger retires anyway (despite all the crap he gets from this fanbase).

    Further, this defense could certainly use a guy who effectively takes away half the field from the opposing QB.

    The FO needs to go all-in NOW.

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Ramsey wants out. (Whereas, Mack just wanted a new contract.)

    The Jags know that Ramsey is gone if they don’t trade him... which would give them only a R3 come pick. So, they’re more likely to take a little less, in order to get more than that for a disgruntled player.

    I’d say: R1 & R2 in 2019... done deal.

    For those not wanting to give up two picks, remember that the draft is a crapshoot; most players do not pan out. And, trading up into the top ten (where a player of Ramsey’s caliber would be drafted) would cost much, much more than a R1 & a R2 pick.
    The more I think about this, the more I think it almost has to happen. The Jags are over the cap...I think... for 2019 and they must improve the O-line and sign a QB + draft a guy.

    So the Jags need to shed payroll, sign a guy like Flacco or Dalton, and draft a QB of the future. Pretty big list.

    Trading Ramsey gives you further towards those things than keeping him does and MAYBE it allows you to keep the front 7 together?

    In a perfect world, a third team gets roped into all this. So the Steelers send picks to the Jags. Get Ramsey in return. A third team gets picks from the Jags and takes on a bad contract while sending a higher pick to the Jags that they can use to target a QB of the future. So basically, an NBA style trade.

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    Re: Why does this defense not create turnovers? Here is why!

    Hard pass on Ramsey. This team doesn't need ANOTHER low character loudmouth who likes to make headlines off the field. Plus the price the Steelers would have to pay would make it very hard to fix the depleted LB corp (which as of now is marginally better than it was after the divisional round)

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