Yeah, I think I said he went to take a shit lmaoOriginally Posted by tube517
Ben's stomach earns the right to fart once in a while. BTW, when Ben left the game the other day, someone in our local Steelers group said they thought he went to take a dump.
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Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
"He has a right to say what he wants" doesn't necessarily constitute a positive vibe.
Once more though, the original comments were no big deal. I think the comments that set things off were the "I've earned the right to criticize my teammates" that came afterwards. That's where the reaction is coming from. Ben just isn't media savvy. But he never was and never will be.
And nobody is saying this is affecting wins and losses. Nothing we say on this board is affecting W/L's either. We're just discussing things that are related to the game, but not related to X's and O's.
Cheers!
Things I enjoy watching Ben do:
-lead the 2-minute drill
-lead come-from-behind victories
-scramble around
-make amazing plays
-connect uncannily with AB
-throw completions to JuJu
-make mediocre WRs look great
-win games (lots & lots of games)
Things I do NOT enjoy watching Ben do:
-speak
-make balloon animals
-visit co-ed bars
Array title="tube517 has a reputation beyond repute">
Tiger has earned the right to call shitty WRs "mediocre".....
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
But we need to remember that sometimes gunslingers miss three point shots
Array title="tube517 has a reputation beyond repute">
Steve Nash earned the right to tell Ben to stick w/football
But we need to remember that sometimes gunslingers miss three point shots
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
We have entered the parallel universe of Bizarro Steelers where the calming influence is provided by peacemaker AB
“Ben is my guy, man,” Brown said Friday afternoon following practice. “I love him. There’s a method to his madness. It’s only going to inspire the group, encourage the group to do better. I know the type of guys he is. I know it can be misconstrued and changed in regards to how you guys put it out there. But he means well. He’s here to inspire us all. He’s the only one in this locker room that has a championship under his belt. If you do the little things, it’s only going to encourage us to do something special.”
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...s/201811300481
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
Most people that don't like Big Ben personally are going to take the other side anytime there is something in question.
I truly believe much of this is that simple.
Aaron Rodgers questions everything and every coach, but he's a god of the position. He's not Ben.
It only matters when Ben does it. He's not a real leader and he hurts his team.
Rodgers can stick his face into any camera or microphone and criticize any player, coach, play call, etc.....and he's a tremendous player and leader and it's clearly not detrimental to his team.
Tom Brady can whine like a little bitch, scream at teammates and act like an ass....and he's a fiery competitor.
We have people here that actually claim that he doesn't say anything to other players' faces. I had no idea we had so many members of this board that work for the Steelers and spend so much time with Ben Roethlisberger and other players.
I am seeing a ton of quotes posted from Steelers players commenting on Ben's comments when they are asked a question, and it is put forward as if these guys are running to microphones to comment on Ben on their own without prodding. There is a difference between players commenting on their own, and responding to a question by the media.
Many here are predisposed to not like anything Ben Roethlisberger.
Ben has his faults, but this is a complete non-story.
WORD.
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
The cake was baked for Ben's image when he was a jackass off the field (and that is an understatement considering off the field behavior included multiple allegations of sexual assault) in the first part of his career. If he had not reached a civil settlement with the college student he encountered in the Milledgeville bathroom (remarkable coincidence how her family retained an Atlanta attorney who specializes in representing plaintiffs alleging sexual harassment in civil litigation and she then quit cooperating with the prosecutors) his career very well could have ended in 2010. Unlike Brady and Rodgers his off the field conduct is what established his unfavorable image.
All that matters is that he remains a very productive QB
But if he wants to take shots on his Tuesday morning radio show and then talk about "earning" the right to take them it is fair game for him to be criticized for blaming everyone except himself for not reading the defense (the DL who made the pick was not blocked downfield by Pouncey but dropped into coverage) and throwing a game ending INT that did not even get to the WR he criticized for running a sloppy route. After throwing 5 picks in the past 2 games maybe just STFU and quit talking about gunslingers and 3 point shooters gotta shoot
There was an easy way to avoid this - Radio Ben created this latest dust up and then doubled down with his comments about his "rights"
If Washington runs through the ball (and catches it), he waltzes into the end-zone.
Should Ben have called him out publicly? Probably not
Was it an awful decision by Washington? Absolutely
I have 2 questions for this.
1. Are you a Steelers fan?
2. If yes how do you cheer for a team when you believe the QB is a rapist who simply bought his way out of trouble?
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
No I just post here because I am a Ravens fan
I lived in Pittsburgh until 1980 and have rooted for the Steelers since the 60s when I attended games when they played at Pitt Stadium prior to moving to TRS
I am able to cheer for a team where the QB used his money wisely to hire excellent criminal attorneys (Ed Garland and Don Samuel - they also represented Ray Lewis) as part of assembling a legal team to resolve his liability - he was going to face a civil lawsuit and settling those claims quickly is standard operating procedure that can be can be resolved in a manner that is neither witness tampering or bribery.
As as far as how can I root for the Steelers when their QB quite possibly engaged in sexual assault, it is because I have no illusions NFL players are necessarily admirable people off the field. By way of example, Greg Lloyd by all indications is a rotten person, Ernie Holmes shot at a police helicopter, James Harrison slapped his girlfriend in the face after knocking down a door to go after her, and Santonio Holmes most likely assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I cheered for them too.
Jerry Seinfeld expressed my view
How do you root for for the Steelers given the players involved in such incidents?
Array title="Shoes has a reputation beyond repute">
Man, I remember games at Pitt Stadium and Forbes Field also. I still remember the vendors at FF screaming "Popcorn, Peanuts 15 cents a box" My uncle was the equipment manager for Pitt back in the day and had a really nice piece written about him by a young sportswriter named Myron Kopelman.No I just post here because I am a Ravens fan
I lived in Pittsburgh until 1980 and have rooted for the Steelers since the 60s when I attended games when they played at Pitt Stadium prior to moving to TRS
I am able to cheer for a team where the QB used his money wisely to hire excellent criminal attorneys (Ed Garland and Don Samuel - they also represented Ray Lewis) as part of assembling a legal team to resolve his liability - he was going to face a civil lawsuit and settling those claims quickly is standard operating procedure that can be can be resolved in a manner that is neither witness tampering or bribery.
As as far as how can I root for the Steelers when their QB quite possibly engaged in sexual assault, it is because I have no illusions NFL players are necessarily admirable people off the field. By way of example, Greg Lloyd by all indications is a rotten person, Ernie Holmes shot at a police helicopter, James Harrison slapped his girlfriend in the face after knocking down a door to go after her, and Santonio Holmes most likely assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I cheered for them too.
Jerry Seinfeld expressed my view
How do you root for for the Steelers given the players involved in such incidents?
Last edited by Shoes; 12-02-2018 at 03:05 PM.
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
That's great Dan, but the first paragraph you posted above has nothing to do with football or what he can or cannot say in a football forum. Your commentary is exactly what I'm talking about.
Ray Lewis was the ultimate leader, and there's more than a reasonable chance he was involved in stabbing two men to death. In a football forum, your thoughts on what makes someone a leader is invalid. Apparently, it hasn't stopped Ray Lewis from being on TV and people asking him his takes on everything. Only Ben has to carry the scarlet letter and carry any perceived indiscretions around with him forever. If NFL locker room cred was decided by how each player treated women over their lifetimes, not many men would ever be allowed to speak. Let's be honest and realistic about this.
Now to get back to football. Do you know what Ben is talking about? He's talking about how many of those 5 picks that can be explained away as amazing plays by other players that got it done over certain players that want the ball thrown their way all the time, no-calls by refs, or mistakes by his teammates.
Let me ask you this. Why is Ben on the hook for this whole thing, when he is the guy delivering the balls that turned into fumbles, dropped TD passes, misjudged perfect throws, and multiple plays that HE made that should have easily decided this game way before the last play when he got a bad snap and made a bad split decision? Then everyone is dumping on Ben for the interception when that game should have NEVER come down to that play.....NEVER. Was it a dumb play? Yes, it was. He should have eaten the ball and taken the sack or thrown it out of the end zone. He couldn't see the play develop because of the snap. He couldn't identify anyone dropping into coverage because of the snap. He couldn't identify anything pre-snap because that's how those work. You can only identify a DL dropping into coverage when you see him drop. He just came up with it and let it go. It was a screwup, but it was a screwup that was helped along by a complete broken play from the snap.
As many on this message board have been saying, this team makes entirely too many mistakes...Ben included. But he is the leader of the team and he knows a hell of a lot more about who is running a wrong route, missing an assignment or reading a defense incorrectly than anyone here. He is trying to make a point to his team in a time where some players only seem to give a shit when everyone knows when they fuck up or hear about it on TV or social media.
One of the guys he's criticizing is AB. You know....the guy that put a live feed of his coach speaking privately to the team in the locker room. Who gives a flying squirrel what someone that committed that breach of trust thinks about it? Spare me about him not having the right to speak. Do you want to know why AB and Ben aren't "on the same page" so often this year? AB is fucking up more than he has in years. He's not getting his feet down every time. He's dropping more balls. He's reading defenses incorrectly. He's running wrong routes. AB freelances more than your average WR. Everybody knows this. His chemistry with Ben and Ben being able to adjust to AB have helped make AB what he is. AB runs the wrong route...everything is cool. Ben gets picked when he throws to the best WR in the NFL in man coverage?....It's OK....Ben fucked up. It doesn't matter that the guy that's supposed to be the greatest WR in the NFL shouldn't be allowing interceptions on 50/50 balls in man coverage. He's "Tony Toe Tap", he's "business is boomin' ", but if Ben misses him when he's open or doesn't see him when he's running for his life from the pass rush....It's a shit show on the sideline. Has anyone noticed that JuJu doesn't have many "miscommunications" with his quarterback and is lighting up the league right now? It's because they aren't "miscommunications" as everyone wants to say it. There is only one person screwing up by running the wrong route or misreading the defense. Since JuJu isn't making these mistakes, and Ben isn't making them with JuJu, You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to decide who is most likely screwing things up in the Ben/AB interactions on the field. Is anyone noticing that JuJu was winning on 50/50 balls in man coverage against Jalen Ramsey? I know that having AB on the other side getting more double teams helps JuJu get more opportunities. There is no doubt about that, but Ben is trying to get everyone in line with the litany of mistakes we are seeing every week.
I also believe that he is challenging Washington because encouragement hasn't been working. He's trying to motivate the kid. Sometimes getting someone to play angry helps a player overcome confidence issues. I believe he is trying what he feels may ultimately help Washington push through his issues.
On the best teams, the best players need to be able to take criticism so that everyone further down on the food chain understands that they better get their shit together. I believe Ben is trying to reinforce that point and make everyone understand that there are times when guys think things need to be said. Everyone sits in the film room. Everyone knows the calls that were made, the assignments missed, and what they could have done differently or better. There are no secrets here or in that locker room.
We also have no way of knowing if Ben talked to AB personally before he spoke to let him know what he was going to say. This happens in locker rooms with coaches all the time. They pull a player aside and say look, I need you to take one for the team today. I'm going to come at you hard in front of everyone, so the entire team knows that they will be held accountable. That's how things work sometimes in sports. Putting everything on himself doesn't seem to be working so he's trying different tact. When guys do it right, he lets everyone know about it. He praises Conner and JuJu all the time. There are messages to the individual players and the team as a whole in everything he says....everything.
I also don't want to hear that Ben needs to take blame. He sits in front of a microphone every week and holds himself accountable while many of his teammates that fuck up are posting on social media pimping their brand from the locker room. He does have the right to say things.
Maybe if he went on his radio show and told everyone to "r-e-l-a-x", nobody would have a problem with that....Oh, that's right...he's Big Ben....someone is always going to have a problem when he says something.
With all that said, do I like when Ben runs his mouth publicly? No I don't. I'm more of an old school guy that didn't believe in that, but times are changing. The modern age of football is seeing so much going on in different forums that I believe this is just a reality of the times, and that this is going to continue to happen more often as young players have changing values and means of communicating. I also don't think it matters in the big scheme of things.
I too wish Ben would STFU about a lot of things, but this is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. If you listen to what he said instead of reading what he said, it isn't nearly as bad as it is being portrayed.
If a sure fire HOF player has to explain himself to people every time he says something according to people here, I sure as here better hear these same people burying other players that say or do stupid things. Way too many people love to defend a certain player that throws furniture out of his apartment window, throws tantrums on the field, and has all kinds of social media bizarre comments constantly...but want to crush Ben every time he says literally anything.
Just sayin'
Great post, Zack!
"Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead." - Butch
I guess Im too old and out of touch to accept the fact that the backlash one is subjected to after legitimately criticizing Ben is warranted.
May be oversimplifying a bit but if you have any part (WR or QB) in 5 picks over two games, just STFU, at least in public, its better for all.
Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
I can root for Ben because, while I think he 'may' have been guilty of what he was accused of, there was no real proof presented to the public. I combine that with the fact that I truly believe that Ben has changed for the better. As for continuing to cheer for guys who have been convicted of crimes of violence against women, unlike you I can't and will never do it.
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
Actually it does. You wondered why Aaron Rodgers criticizes others and does not catch hell for it. I gave you my perception why.
The difference is to my knowledge there are no stories of the Green Bay equivalent of Charlie Batch calling out Rodgers for being a bad teammate as Batch did with Ben along with the other incidents involving Ben through 2010. It may be unfair but off the field conduct matters and when you solidify an image as a self-centered jerk through 2010 that is going to carry over to how any comments you make are perceived by many, specifically me. Props to you if you are able to compartmentalize the different aspects of the Ben Roethlisberger experience. That is not a shot at you - I admit I cannot do it.
And because Rodgers is not regarded to be a self-entitled jackass (who knows if he is - those State Farm endorsement deals indicate he is not perceived that way although I have read he is estranged from his immediate family) he gets cut slack Ben does not. That is why I raised it, not just to rehash why I root for Ben but do not regard him as anyone I would suggest anyone follow for any reason other than how to be a good on the field QB.
Ray Lewis is regarded as an immoral fraud by me and I am not alone. If you think Ray Lewis got a lifetime pass for his excellent adventure in Buckhead when attending the 2000 Super Bowl here are links to stories that ran during Ravens-49ers Super Bowl week in 2013. Not exactly a Jerome Bettis returning in glory to Detroit in SB XL storyline. So if Ben makes it to Atlanta in February and we read about Milledgeville again it has happened before.Ray Lewis was the ultimate leader, and there's more than a reasonable chance he was involved in stabbing two men to death. In a football forum, your thoughts on what makes someone a leader is invalid. Apparently, it hasn't stopped Ray Lewis from being on TV and people asking him his takes on everything. Only Ben has to carry the scarlet letter and carry any perceived indiscretions around with him forever. If NFL locker room cred was decided by how each player treated women over their lifetimes, not many men would ever be allowed to speak. Let's be honest and realistic about this.
Slayings not forgotten, Ray Lewis not forgiven
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-2000/1566198/
Ray Lewis’ Atlanta legacy not so storied
Baltimore football star embroiled in 2000 murder case that changed Buckhead
https://www.ajc.com/news/ray-lewis-a...MmkifKK/QUOTE]
I have not said he is on the hook for this whole thing. FWIW I would have brought in Nix to run Conner from first and goal on the three and blame Fichtner for not sending in the personnel to run.Let me ask you this. Why is Ben on the hook for this whole thing, when he is the guy delivering the balls that turned into fumbles, dropped TD passes, misjudged perfect throws, and multiple plays that HE made that should have easily decided this game way before the last play when he got a bad snap and made a bad split decision?
And with regard to holding others accountable I posted earlier this week I would have released Grimble, after reading his claim he could have avoided being tackled but wanted to run over the safety on the fumble, as a low cost means of telling everyone mental errors have consequences.
I have not read anyone post anything to indicate they disagree with you on that.But he is the leader of the team and he knows a hell of a lot more about who is running a wrong route, missing an assignment or reading a defense incorrectly than anyone here.
I posted earlier that the one person he might be justified in calling out in public was AB for running a bad route since AB may not react anymore to private counseling (although AB certainly took the high road in his media comments on Friday in responding to Ben's comments) and Brown has not been putting up numbers to his standards all season.He is trying to make a point to his team in a time where some players only seem to give a shit when everyone knows when they fuck up or hear about it on TV or social media.
One of the guys he's criticizing is AB. You know....the guy that put a live feed of his coach speaking privately to the team in the locker room. Who gives a flying squirrel what someone that committed that breach of trust thinks about it? Spare me about him not having the right to speak....
Do you want to know why AB and Ben aren't "on the same page" so often this year? AB is fucking up more than he has in years.
But how about you do it when the pass actually gets to that line of the defense? Instead we get a combo platter of the DL was not where he was supposed to be because Pouncey blocked him there (wrong), Fichtner sent in a bad play (check out of it), and AB needs to run a better route - thinking Ben was pointing fingers at everyone other than himself (when asked if he should have done something different Ben responds "what should I have done, fallen down?") is to me a reasonable conclusion
Interesting he is doing it with Washington and not Conner. Maybe Washington's body language or responses indicate he is not as receptive to criticism as Conner? It may just be my personal preference that younger players not be called out in public by anyone other than Tomlin unless they are five star screwups like Martavis Bryant.I also believe that he is challenging Washington because encouragement hasn't been working. He's trying to motivate the kid. Sometimes getting someone to play angry helps a player overcome confidence issues. I believe he is trying what he feels may ultimately help Washington push through his issues.
.Way too many people love to defend a certain player that throws furniture out of his apartment window, throws tantrums on the field, and has all kinds of social media bizarre comments constantly
Not me - I started the thread about the furniture tossing and the followup about more $$$ being "stolen" from an AB safe in Pittsburgh
Thanks for the thoughtful response - I only quoted excerpts in my reply in the interest of saving space
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
This literally took 5 seconds to find. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/e...l-born-leader/
Here's the story mentioned in the link above: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...e-packers-need
His brother questions Aaron Rodgers for asking for charity for fire victims in California, but doesn't even try to contact his own family who live in the effected areas to see if they're ok. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/11/nfl...rnia-wildfires
Sometimes people get so microscopic when they are looking at everything players do on their own team, they don't always see a lot of stuff that's going on with other players on other teams. I'm as guilty of it as others at times.
Thanks for the response to my post. We don't agree on everything, but I always enjoy our conversations.
With the way Ben has played these past 2 weeks, I hope he doesn't criticize anyone else for poor play the rest of the season
Array title="Rotorhead has a reputation beyond repute">
I will say, AB played a great game, the rest of the team forgot to play
I won't even mention INT Ben, oops but coaching lost this game.
You can root for a team, since you have been a fan for decades. You can even love what the QB does on the football field and in games, yet not agree with the choices off the field that he makes.No I just post here because I am a Ravens fan
I lived in Pittsburgh until 1980 and have rooted for the Steelers since the 60s when I attended games when they played at Pitt Stadium prior to moving to TRS
I am able to cheer for a team where the QB used his money wisely to hire excellent criminal attorneys (Ed Garland and Don Samuel - they also represented Ray Lewis) as part of assembling a legal team to resolve his liability - he was going to face a civil lawsuit and settling those claims quickly is standard operating procedure that can be can be resolved in a manner that is neither witness tampering or bribery.
As as far as how can I root for the Steelers when their QB quite possibly engaged in sexual assault, it is because I have no illusions NFL players are necessarily admirable people off the field. By way of example, Greg Lloyd by all indications is a rotten person, Ernie Holmes shot at a police helicopter, James Harrison slapped his girlfriend in the face after knocking down a door to go after her, and Santonio Holmes most likely assaulted his girlfriend in 2006. I cheered for them too.
Jerry Seinfeld expressed my view
How do you root for for the Steelers given the players involved in such incidents?
In short, you cheer for the name on the front of the jersey and not the one on the back of the jersey.
Array title="Shoes has a reputation beyond repute">
Well, Ben earned the right to call out Hunter on this weeks radio program for diving to catch his overthrown ball in the EZ.
How many interceptions has he had in the last three weeks ? Love him but wouldn't mind if he retires after this season. Would like to see what we have in Dobbs and Rudolph.
Good to see everyone is out on the ledge tonight.
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Lol.
- - - Updated - - -
I'm not and said they are playoff bound cause of the crap division. Can they do anything with it ?
Array title="Shoes has a reputation beyond repute">
I'm not on the edge, what we saw tonight is a reality.
At this point, Ben has earned the right to STFU...he needs to be called out...these boneheaded picks are atrocious...that pick tonight potentially cost us at least 3 points. My confidence level has dropped to 0 after tonight.
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