Ben - “I’ve earned the right” to criticize teammates

[Mojouw]

I feel like people are reacting based on some mythologized dewy eyed concept of a "locker room". Do you seriously think that when Ben says a thing on the radio, that is the first time other members of the Pittsburgh Steelers have heard it? It may be the first time the Twitterverse and the other media has heard it, but I suspect it isn't news to Washington, AB, Juju, etc.

I feel like I can hear echoes of every youth coach and high school coach I ever had talking about "keeping it in the family" and "what goes on in here stays in here" and whatever other rah-rah team building nonsense they had for us that year in this thread.

Meanwhile, the "pot stirring" "dirty laundry airing" bad leader has a center who may retire when he hangs it up because he cant imagine playing for another QB. Decastro and the other lineman seem ready to decapitate dudes for their QB. Based on the few camera shots we see during games, the entire roster listens when Ben speaks on the sidelines during games. The entire defense seems to truly believe that if they get their QB the ball with at least 2 minutes left and only down one score or less, they will win the game.

I dunno, I see a 53 man roster who is more than ready to ride or die with their QB. I suspect Ben is kind of a jerk and likely not the easiest guy to get along with, but who the hell cares? These dudes don't need to be friends. They just need to work well enough together to make plays on Sundays. This isn't high school.

[fansince'76]

And where did I use the term "insufferable prick"? Keep deflecting the topic and manufacturing words if that is what makes you feel better.

Ben as a leader : Better to leave leadership to somebody else. Self-centered attitude and willingness to air out your thoughts in public, instead of talking to men face to face.

Sure. And I'll completely forget about the innumerable times after a loss that I've watched Roethlisberger look straight into a TV camera and said "this loss is on me."

[Shoes]

I feel like people are reacting based on some mythologized dewy eyed concept of a "locker room". Do you seriously think that when Ben says a thing on the radio, that is the first time other members of the Pittsburgh Steelers have heard it? It may be the first time the Twitterverse and the other media has heard it, but I suspect it isn't news to Washington, AB, Juju, etc.

I feel like I can hear echoes of every youth coach and high school coach I ever had talking about "keeping it in the family" and "what goes on in here stays in here" and whatever other rah-rah team building nonsense they had for us that year in this thread.

Meanwhile, the "pot stirring" "dirty laundry airing" bad leader has a center who may retire when he hangs it up because he cant imagine playing for another QB. Decastro and the other lineman seem ready to decapitate dudes for their QB. Based on the few camera shots we see during games, the entire roster listens when Ben speaks on the sidelines during games. The entire defense seems to truly believe that if they get their QB the ball with at least 2 minutes left and only down one score or less, they will win the game.

I dunno, I see a 53 man roster who is more than ready to ride or die with their QB. I suspect Ben is kind of a jerk and likely not the easiest guy to get along with, but who the hell cares? These dudes don't need to be friends. They just need to work well enough together to make plays on Sundays. This isn't high school.

That's just it, there is no point in saying it on the radio. What is gained with this?

[Mojouw]

That's just it, there is no point in saying it on the radio. What is gained with this?

And there is no negative either. It is a neutral thing. These are grown-ass men doing grown men things. This is not some group of cliquey group of high school girls.

Does anyone really think that now AB is not going to run good routes or not get in shape because Ben did him dirty on the radio? That would just impact AB's "brand" and bottom line. These dudes get paid on performance in the ultimate what have you done for me lately league. AB starts running bad routes or dogging it to show up the QB who dissed him and the team goes after his $$$$.

And Ben is far from the only QB in the league who calls out teammates. Other teams have not disintegrated into some dysfunctional mess and neither will the Steelers. This is about the biggest non-issue that I can think of. Additionally, this has been going on for years. Now that Kaboly and other lazy writers have used it for a story everyone seems to be wringing their hands and clutching their pearls.

[Fire Goodell]

Radio Ben sounds like a cool nickname

[Shoes]

And there is no negative either. It is a neutral thing. These are grown-ass men doing grown men things. This is not some group of cliquey group of high school girls.

Does anyone really think that now AB is not going to run good routes or not get in shape because Ben did him dirty on the radio? That would just impact AB's "brand" and bottom line. These dudes get paid on performance in the ultimate what have you done for me lately league. AB starts running bad routes or dogging it to show up the QB who dissed him and the team goes after his $$$$.

And Ben is far from the only QB in the league who calls out teammates. Other teams have not disintegrated into some dysfunctional mess and neither will the Steelers. This is about the biggest non-issue that I can think of. Additionally, this has been going on for years. Now that Kaboly and other lazy writers have used it for a story everyone seems to be wringing their hands and clutching their pearls.

There sure as hell is, by "Kaboly and other lazy writers." Nothing is gained by publicly calling out a player. This would never be done by a good manager in a common workplace.

[AtlantaDan]

And there is no negative either. It is a neutral thing. These are grown-ass men doing grown men things. This is not some group of cliquey group of high school girls.

Does anyone really think that now AB is not going to run good routes or not get in shape because Ben did him dirty on the radio? That would just impact AB's "brand" and bottom line. These dudes get paid on performance in the ultimate what have you done for me lately league. AB starts running bad routes or dogging it to show up the QB who dissed him and the team goes after his $$$$. .,.

Now that Kaboly and other lazy writers have used it for a story everyone seems to be wringing their hands and clutching their pearls.

Kaboly published the story on Ben’s radio appearances on Monday before Ben went off yesterday.

FWIW Kaboly was not clutching his pearls or criticizing but noted Ben actually generates coverage of what is said unlike most QBs who have their obligatory radio appearance and say nothing. Guess he called that, eh?

I agree nothing Ben says on the radio is likely to be news to his teammates (although Ben said in the story he knew coaches “used to listen” to hear what Ben said (Coach Todd? ) and Ben has used the show for Dr. Ben injury updates that have been news to Tomlin)

And it is a business - whether or not Ben is beloved in the locker room is more or less irrelevant - lots of successful operations put up with jerks who enhance the bottom line

And in the case of AB (who is having a very good but not typical AB season) I think Ben has known AB long enough to think a public shaming might result in less sloppy routes such as the one Ben said was run in the end zone

But criticizing the play calling is a cheap shot (just check out of the damn play) and contributes to the impression Fichtner is Ben’s poodle. And Ben may not be the best assessor of which young players that are struggling, such as Washington, will respond positively to being called out (note he is not calling out Conner for his drops and fumbles).

So maybe after throwing 5 picks in the past 2 games while the offense has had trouble scoring it simply might not be a best practice to go off on anyone else

Of course we will miss all of this in the not too distant future when Ben is retired while the Steelers are slogging through another 6-10 season as the Browns seek to repeat as Super Bowl champs

[Shoes]

Kaboly published the story on Ben’s radio appearances on Monday before Ben went off yesterday.

FWIW Kaboly was not clutching his pearls or criticizing but noted Ben actually generates coverage of what is said unlike most QBs who have their obligatory radio appearance and say nothing. Guess he called that, eh?

I agree nothing Ben says on the radio is likely to be news to his teammates (although Kaboly implied Haley was a listener since that was Ben’s forum of choice for taking shots at Coach Todd and Ben has used the show for Dr. Ben injury updates that have been news to Tomlin)

And it is a business - whether or not Ben is beloved in the locker room is more or less irrelevant - lots of successful operations put up with jerks who enhance the bottom line

And in the case of AB (who is having a very good but not typical AB season) I think Ben has known AB long enough to think a public shaming might result in less sloppy routes such as the one Ben said was run in the end zone

But criticizing the play calling is a cheap shot (just check out of the damn play) and contributes to the impression Fichtner is Ben’s poodle. And Ben may not be the best assessor of which young players that are struggling, such as Washington, will respond positively to criticism (note he is not calling out Conner for his drops
and fumbles).

So maybe after throwing 5 picks in the past 2 games while the offense has had trouble scoring it simply might not be a best practice to go off on anyone else

Of course we will miss all of this in the not too distant future when Ben is retired while the Steelers are slogging through another 6-10 season as the Browns seek to repeat as Super Bowl champs

Maybe then we'll get a TE.

[Istina]

There sure as hell is, by "Kaboly and other lazy writers." Nothing is gained by publicly calling out a player. This would never be done by a good manager in a common workplace.

I don't know that I'd equate Ben to a manager, that would be Tomlin and he never called out anyone in public that I can remember. Ben on the other hand is an employee and employees call each out on the regular in the workplace if someone isn't holding up their end of the deal.

[Carolina Steelers]

I agree Ben has earned the right to criticize I get it, but I’ve always like to praise in public and criticize in private. Washington being a young player maybe he has 4-6 Sunday night and a TD then we’ll be saying see it worked. Or if Washington drops 2 passes and one is crucial we’ll be saying it didn’t work. Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shoes]

I don't know that I'd equate Ben to a manager, that would be Tomlin and he never called out anyone in public that I can remember. Ben on the other hand is an employee and employees call each out on the regular in the workplace if someone isn't holding up their end of the deal.

He's a captain of the team and Offensive team "leader" that's manager enough. I do agree with you on Tomlin, maybe Ben should follow his lead.

[Mojouw]

There sure as hell is, by "Kaboly and other lazy writers." Nothing is gained by publicly calling out a player. This would never be done by a good manager in a common workplace.

What is the negative? Some sportswriter wrote a piece that puts the story in the media eye? Oh no! Cancel the playoffs! Break up the team! These guys will never be able to make it work!

Honestly, what will the impact of Ben's comments be on the field this Sunday? Next Sunday? A month from now?

I've started a shift in shouting matches with a co-worker before. Ended the day hitting all our goals and going for tacos and beers. And that was for far less stakes than an NFL football game. I think these guys might be able to figure it out.

To be crystal clear, I think that Ben is an ego driven guy who likes to humble brag whenever possible and blame shift when things get really dicey. I also think he over-dramatizes stuff and is most likely not that great of a dude. So what? This is not news to anyone, much less his team mates. He has done this before. Off the top of my head, with Martavis Bryant and dude went out and blew up on the field including that ridiculous somersaulting TD catch against the Bengals.

Long story short, this kinda crap happens all the time and is latched onto by fans as some sort of window into the soul of a football team or something and is read into like the divine oracles of old. At the end of the day it doesn't mean that much.

[Shoes]

What is the negative? Some sportswriter wrote a piece that puts the story in the media eye? Oh no! Cancel the playoffs! Break up the team! These guys will never be able to make it work!

Honestly, what will the impact of Ben's comments be on the field this Sunday? Next Sunday? A month from now?

I've started a shift in shouting matches with a co-worker before. Ended the day hitting all our goals and going for tacos and beers. And that was for far less stakes than an NFL football game. I think these guys might be able to figure it out.

To be crystal clear, I think that Ben is an ego driven guy who likes to humble brag whenever possible and blame shift when things get really dicey. I also think he over-dramatizes stuff and is most likely not that great of a dude. So what? This is not news to anyone, much less his team mates. He has done this before. Off the top of my head, with Martavis Bryant and dude went out and blew up on the field including that ridiculous somersaulting TD catch against the Bengals.

Long story short, this kinda crap happens all the time and is latched onto by fans as some sort of window into the soul of a football team or something and is read into like the divine oracles of old. At the end of the day it doesn't mean that much.

Nothing is negative, Ben has earned the right.

[86WARD]

They should cut Ben today and sign a street free agent like Mark Sanchez and just win the Super Bowl with Dobbs. Ben sucks, he throws too many interceptions, criticizes too many fellow players (constructive criticism like telling the receiver where to run the route doesn’t count...that’s bad too), constructive criticism is the worst and he goes on and speaks to much running his mouth on a radio show. Clearly the team has no respect for him...especially Pouncey...that dude hates Ben’s hands up his ass. Hopefully he retires after this season, if they don’t cut him first, and they don’t have to deal with his QB skills anymore...or lack of skills.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Sure. And I'll completely forget about the innumerable times after a loss that I've watched Roethlisberger look straight into a TV camera and said "this loss is on me."

Go ahead, keep parsing posts and deflecting from the original discussion.

It doesn't change the fact that Ben seems to like talking more about members of his team so they hear it on the radio first, instead of talking to them face to face like a grown up.

[86WARD]

Not every non-journeyman QB (I have followed Matt Ryan for 11 years now in Atlanta and he does not regularly do it) does it to the extent Ben does

It is paywalled but Mark Kaboly had a good article this week in The Athletic on how Ben’s radio show/therapy session is not the usual QB pablum (apparently Coach Todd used to tune in to hear if Ben ripped him)

Ben Roethlisberger's radio show has turned into a must-listen because he's 'not afraid to say things'
https://theathletic.com/608515/2018/...ult-following/

Lol. Really? Ryan is seen yelling at receivers all the time, he criticized Shanahans play calling in the Super Bowl. Maybe he doesn’t do it on a radio show, maybe you don’t follow Ryan as much as you follow Ben and maybe the Steelers beat writers write more stories about the Steelers then the Falcons best writers just because people car more for the Steelers and there’s a bigger fan base.

Lol. A QB that sits quiet is a QB that sucks.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Vintage Ben from last season vs Patriots. Throws the coaches under the bus in a press conference. Basically says "the loss is on me for listening to the coaches".

Aditi Kinkhabwala‏

Verified account

@AKinkhabwala

More

Ben Roethlisberger says "I'll take the blame for the INT at the end of the game." Says in hindsight, he should've listened to himself and not the coaches, and just spike the ball as he wanted to - and as his teammates expected.

8:13 AM - 19 Dec 2017

In other words, “Yeah it’s my fault … for not doing what I actually wanted to do.”Roethlisberger makes it sound like an either/or decision: Either I spike the ball or throw the interception. That’s not how it works. The throw wasn’t there. There was still time left on the clock for the game-tying field goal. Just throw it away.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/12/nfl...-blame-coaches

[86WARD]

Go ahead, keep parsing posts and deflecting from the original discussion.

It doesn't change the fact that Ben seems to like talking more about members of his team so they hear it on the radio first, instead of talking to them face to face like a grown up.

Because you know what he says to them on the sideline and in the locker room? Lol. You also know how and what they respond to better than Ben would. I get it now...

[GBMelBlount]

I have been on Steelers forums for 15 years and I feel like I have earned the right to criticize Ben, Tomlin, AB, et al. Those of you with fewer posts under your belt need to pipe down.

Personally, while I enjoy the forum banter over topics like this in general, it is most enjoyable when wit & humor is injected.

[GBMelBlount]

I am curious if people feel Cam Heywards more general criticism earlier this seaon is a better approach?

Heyward noted that players need to work together to fix the issue.

"It's assignment football and being more accountable," Heyward said. "It's understanding rush and coverage work together. If the rush doesn't get there,

we have to get our hands up.

We have to get better push.

And our secondary has to make some plays.

If we're in man, we have to keep our leverage inside.

In the run game, we have to be in our gaps and stay sound, not shooting blocks and trying to make plays.

Our defense isn't about making plays. It's about doing your job.

That's for everyone out there. I don't give a [darn] if I never get a sack again. But if everyone else does their job and we get off the field, then so be it."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...t-on-the-field

[DesertSteel]

Do you seriously think that when Ben says a thing on the radio, that is the first time other members of the Pittsburgh Steelers have heard it?

Honest answer: Yes. Ben has a passive aggressive personality type and I can easily see him hiding behind a microphone and not telling someone to their face.

That said, I really don't care about this latest drama. It's not just the fans on this forum who overreact after a loss - the players do too. Time to move on to the Chargers...

- - - Updated - - -

Because you know what he says to them on the sideline and in the locker room? Lol. You also know how and what they respond to better than Ben would. I get it now...

If you said it to their face what would be the need to go 'spank' them in public? That would be very bizarre.

[86WARD]

Honest answer: Yes. Ben has a passive aggressive personality type and I can easily see him hiding behind a microphone and not telling someone to their face.

That said, I really don't care about this latest drama. It's not just the fans on this forum who overreact after a loss - the players do too. Time to move on to the Chargers...

- - - Updated - - -


If you said it to their face what would be the need to go 'spank' them in public? That would be very bizarre.

Lol...constructive criticism is far from “spanking them” in public and actually with how intelligent the football fan is getting, he’s giving those exactly what they want...a description and breakdown of the plays...what went right and what went wrong. Saying that Brown should flatten the route, that he didn’t know why Washington is diving is hardly something that should hurt a players feeling...if it does, they shouldn’t be playing football. Maybe each week Ben should give Washington a participation sticker or glitter star on his helmet for doing a good job? Not to mention the fact that he’s filling content and answering questions on a dopey radio show.

[DesertSteel]

I think Washington needs to participate before he gets a sticker. I’m leaning towards bust after that game. I hope I’m wrong.

[vasteeler]

I think Washington needs to participate before he gets a sticker. I’m leaning towards bust after that game. I hope I’m wrong.

Agreed. I hope he's not another Limas Sweed.

[AtlantaDan]

Lol. Really? Ryan is seen yelling at receivers all the time, he criticized Shanahans play calling in the Super Bowl. Maybe he doesn’t do it on a radio show, maybe you don’t follow Ryan as much as you follow Ben and maybe the Steelers beat writers write more stories about the Steelers then the Falcons best writers just because people car more for the Steelers and there’s a bigger fan base.

Lol. A QB that sits quiet is a QB that sucks.

Maybe you believe yelling at receivers during the game is the same as going on sports talk radio Tuesday morning to drop bombs but I respectfully disagree

As far as coverage & interest, Atlanta has pretty much the same media set up as Pittsburgh - monopoly newspaper (AJC compared to P-G), two sports talk stations (do not know if Pitt has 2 or just the one Ben spouts off on), local TV for all major networks, local bureau of The Athletic that covers local teams, ESPN.com coverage. As far as passive reporting, Ed Bouchette and Gerry Dulac of the P-G are not exactly the Woodward & Bernstein of aggressive local NFL coverage

Main difference is the local Atlanta market is 5.5 million metro rather than 2 million metro population like Pittsburgh (the two metros were the same size when I moved to Atlanta in the 80s) - so it is not as if the Falcons play in a backwater like Jacksonville with a small fan base and the media just reports game highlights

As far as Ryan going after Shanahan's play calling after a bitter Super Bowl loss (which Ryan at least tried to clean up at the start of the next season), that was a day at the beach compared to Ben's passive aggressive behavior with Coach Todd for six freaking seasons.

Bottom line is Ben is a great QB (certainly better than Ryan) but also someone who likes to share his views and has thrown off quotable stuff of sometimes dubious credibility since his rookie year more than other QBs - he got into it with Cowher after the "broken toes" in his first season and it has gone on from there

[fansince'76]

Because you know what he says to them on the sideline and in the locker room? Lol. You also know how and what they respond to better than Ben would. I get it now...

This.

As far as Ryan going after Shanahan's play calling after a bitter Super Bowl loss (which Ryan at least tried to clean up at the start of the next season), that was a day at the beach compared to Ben's passive aggressive behavior with Coach Todd for six freaking seasons.

And considering Coach Todd's rather brief tenure in Cleveland, perhaps Ben had a point? It wasn't exactly like he was butting heads with Bill Walsh.

[AtlantaDan]

And considering Coach Todd's rather brief tenure in Cleveland, perhaps Ben had a point?

Haley is a jackass who has been booted out of every job since he was OC with the Cardinals - although based on what has come out about Hue Jackson from Browns players, Coach Todd may have been brought in by a HC who still wanted to call plays and was a snake

Regardless of Haley’s issues, Ben was bitching from the start about no longer being able to play Arians Hero Ball after AJRII forced BA out

I guess it depends on whether it is better to have an OC who indulges you or one that forced you to adjust your game and add about 5 years to your career along with about $100 million in additional income

[fansince'76]

Haley is a jackass who has been booted out of every job since he was OC with the Cardinals - although based on what has come out about Hue Jackson from Browns players, Coach Todd may have been brought in by a HC who still wanted to call plays and was a snake

Regardless of Haley’s issues, Ben was bitching from the start about no longer being able to play Arians Hero Ball after AJRII forced BA out

I guess it depends on whether it is better to have an OC who indulges you or one that forced you to adjust your game and add about 5 years to your career along with about $100 million in additional income

I credit Munchak for that far more than I do Haley, personally. Ben continued to take a beating on a regular basis until Munchak arrived in 2014.

The schemes have changed, but the beatings have remained the same for Ben Roethlisberger.
Actually, they’ve gotten worse.

The Steelers quarterback is getting sacked at a higher rate than when he was playing under coordinator Bruce Arians, who was criticized for not sufficiently protecting the investment.

According to Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the 26 sacks Roethlisberger has absorbed so far puts him on pace for 59, well beyond his career-high of 50 — if he makes it that long.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-record-rates/

[Butch]

Really? You are going to say the fault of the loss is on a 4th string RB that scored the only TD in a 23-16 playoff game Boswell kicked 3FG's that day, Fitzgerald Toussaint scored 1 rushing TD that day and Ben threw 0 TD passes.

I think Steeler fans have been expecting their biggest stars to step up in the moment, but when they don't step up, its still easier to find somebody less significant to point to than their biggest stars when its time to blame.

Where was Ben's #1 RB and #1 WR for that game? Both were injured the game before. Matter of fact Ben was playing hurt from the game before as well, but well he played so let's hold his feet to the fire. Certainly don't want to blame the Defense for not making a play when we needed it.

Now let's look at that great O-line that Ben had in SB 43, the one that got caught holding in the endzone and gave up a safety late in the game. Same O-line that on the very next play from scrimmage took another penalty before Ben drove us down the field for the game winning TD. Who did Ben call out that game? Oh yeah the O-line for the win.

How bout that Great D you mentioned. What did they do with the game on the line and all we needed was a stop? Oh yeah they gave up a Touchdown to Fitzgerald. Good thing they did it quickly so that Ben had enough time to drive the field and win the game. I guess maybe at least for that day Ben was the leader who stepped up when it was time to be Great.Don't get me wrong that was a Great D, but they were a hell of a lot better with Ben as the QB than whoever his backup was at the time.

a couple weeks ago it was the Jags game. Ben threw some int's in that game too. I even hear that some on this very board wanted Dobbs. ROFLMAO!!! that is beyond hilarious. One of those int's was in the endzone when Ramsey jumped over ABs head to get the ball. Is this Ben's fault for forcing the ball to one of our "Greats" and expecting him to make a play, or did Ramsey simply want the ball more? I am guessing it's all on Ben. You seem to believe that Ben's int. alone cost us the last game, I am guessing you are willing to concede that his TD run the game before was the only reason we won against Jax?

I certainly hope that when Ben steps down we have his replacement waiting on the sidelines, but if not I am sure we will all be grateful that, even though we are not winning games, we don't have the drama.

[Six Rings]

He's earned the right to say what he wants. But there is a difference between calling Washington out ( 25 targets, under 100 receiving yards ) and calling out a more established veteran, like say Sean Davis who stunk up the joint in Denver.