My Thoughts.... (Denver game)

[StillCurtains]

This game was like watching an episode of the Twilight Zone. The worse that you ever could think can happen did.

Freakishly, everything happened in scoring position. It was just absolutely unreal!

Blocked FG
Grimble fumbles at the 1
McDonald drops TD in endzone (Although scored on fake FG)
Ben throws first pick in Denver territory.
Washington drops sure (wide open)TD. Didn’t need to dive
Conner fumbles at Denver’s 20

Did I miss anything?

Ben has 5 picks in the last 2 games. Sorry but that just can’t happen. We have 7 turnovers total in our last 2 games. Ben has got to stop forcing balls to AB. Especially on that last pick.

Can Conner rebound after 2 bad games straight? I hope so! His drops vs Jacksonville and the fumble vs Denver were ugly. Really hope he can bounce back.

McDonald can lose us a game if he’s not more consistent in catching passes. Also we may want to give someone else Washington’s snaps. He’s giving us nothing.

The gameplan worked pretty well, but did we HAVE to throw so much? Denver is one of the worse rushing defenses in the league. You have to test that.

Why did we try a WR pass from AB on 2nd and 10 on the first drive? It put us behind the chains and we had to punt.

Haden played his worst game as a Steeler. Although the defense wasn’t all around terrible, they definately could have been better. We have gotten outdone 7-0 in turnover differential these last 2 weeks. That’s unacceptable. They need to start finding some type of way of generating turnovers.

I’m hoping these were just a bad last 2 weeks, but I can’t help but having more than a cause of concern moving forward.

[Mojouw]

The lack of a viable 3rd WR hurt the offense in this game. Denver was daring them to throw to the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game.

Watt and Dupree vanished. Maybe that PFF article wasn't that far off? Butler has to figure out what went wrong and scheme the pass rush back on track.

Joe Haden is really good, but he can't run one on one with speedy WRs. Why he and the Steelers insist on this is beyond me.

Ben R will never be regarded nationally as good as he really is because of games like this one. He throws too many "WTF" picks to be seriously considered as an MVP caliber QB.

All that said, every team has a game like this one every year.

[Fire Goodell]

When you leave 21+ points on the field, you're likely going to lose. That's basically what it boils down to, that should have been a blowout.

Honestly after that blocked FG and Grimble fumble, I was pretty sure it was going to be a loss. You can't spot your opponent 10 points on the road, totally trash.

[stillers4me]

[fansince'76]

Yeah, it wasn't so much the turnovers by Grimble and Conner, it was the freakish nature of those turnovers that was so maddening.

[Shoes]

Washington’s drop was understandable, the ball was over thrown and he was stretched out as far as possible. Ben should have tossed fitches call on that last play in the shit can and called his own play.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yeah, it wasn't so much the turnovers by Grimble and Conner, it was the freakish nature of those turnovers that was so maddening.

Yeah, the video clearly shows that Grimble didn't get 2 hands on the ball to secure it before contact. That detail cost 7 points. Conner is going to learn to keep the ball high and tight like Tiki Barber going forward I hope.

- - - Updated - - -

Washington’s drop was understandable, the ball was over thrown and he was stretched out as far as possible. Ben should have tossed fitches call on that last play in the shit can and called his own play.

IDK, the Washington ball was thrown a bit far ahead of him, but it almost looked as if he could run under it outstretched without trying to dive. He may not have been able to stay on his feet if he caught it, but I think he slightly misjudged it. Yeah, that last play was terrible.

[Neversatisfied]

How bad is the Secondary? Seriously, they cannot be trusted. I cant count how many times guys were open, i mean WIDE fu@%ing open! Haden had a bad game but I think he is the only defensive back on the roster that is worth a shit. The Steelers have Rivers,Brady and Breese in the coming weeks, I bet they are licking their chops.

[SteelMayhem72]

The lack of a viable 3rd WR hurt the offense in this game. Denver was daring them to throw to the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game.

Watt and Dupree vanished. Maybe that PFF article wasn't that far off? Butler has to figure out what went wrong and scheme the pass rush back on track.

Joe Haden is really good, but he can't run one on one with speedy WRs. Why he and the Steelers insist on this is beyond me.

Ben R will never be regarded nationally as good as he really is because of games like this one. He throws too many "WTF" picks to be seriously considered as an MVP caliber QB.

All that said, every team has a game like this one every year.

That analysis is spot on...especially about Ben...I don't understand the brain cramp boneheaded picks he throws almost every game. I want him so badly to be considered one of the greatest but those brain lapses(too many concussions) cause s him to be left out a lot of the "elite" talk.

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[SteelMayhem72]

Another thing....the Steelers definitely need to work on play calling inside the 5...they are gonna have to come up with something different. I'm not a fan of the fade or the shuttle (shuffle?) pass. Teams have studied it and it doesn't work anymore. Also, if your gonna throw please have more than one man running a route. It looked like AB was the only option to pass to on our final play just like the debacle in the New England game.

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[StillCurtains]

Another thing....the Steelers definitely need to work on play calling inside the 5...they are gonna have to come up with something different. I'm not a fan of the fade or the shuttle (shuffle?) pass. Teams have studied it and it doesn't work anymore. Also, if your gonna throw please have more than one man running a route. It looked like AB was the only option to pass to on our final play just like the debacle in the New England game.

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Yup!

[StillCurtains]

That analysis is spot on...especially about Ben...I don't understand the brain cramp boneheaded picks he throws almost every game. I want him so badly to be considered one of the greatest but those brain lapses(too many concussions) cause s him to be left out a lot of the "elite" talk.

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Exactly. The way the game was going I could see it coming. Even though AB’s jersey was grabbed on the first pick you still don’t make that throw.

It’s inevitable that teams will make a run on you on the road. When you have a lead especially on the road, ball security and execution is paramount. If you get careless and sloppy as Ben did, a 7 point lead with a chance to go up 14 turns into a tie quickly and an eventual loss.

You have to be smarter than that and know the sense of urgency while staying on your details. Make teams earn it and punt if you must. Also burning 2 timeouts in the 3rd by Ben was idiotic and that loses you games. It’s better to take a penalty and punt.

As far as Washington he needs to get off the field. If Burns can get benched so can he. He hasn’t shown anything to indicate he deserves snaps over someone else. I would rather have Heyward Bey in his place. Washington’s lack of ability to make plays is killing them in sutuational football.

[Mojouw]

Another thing....the Steelers definitely need to work on play calling inside the 5...they are gonna have to come up with something different. I'm not a fan of the fade or the shuttle (shuffle?) pass. Teams have studied it and it doesn't work anymore. Also, if your gonna throw please have more than one man running a route. It looked like AB was the only option to pass to on our final play just like the debacle in the New England game.

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From what I can tell and what I have read around the internet the final play call almost sorta kinda maybe makes sense.

It was an RPO and based on how Denver lined up, Ben selected the "Pass" part of that. I've watched it a bunch since yesterday and if the snap gets there clean and the NT doesn't randomly get pushed back about 3 yards, AB was initially open. When he first cut the route inside, he was "open" - a narrow window but it was there. In fact, he still looks open and has leverage on the CB when the ball is thrown. AB has a step on Harris and as long as Ben leads him to the far post, he hauls it in no problem. Just no one expects the NT to kinda rear up and snatch the ball.

All in all, when Ben had to handle the bad snap and delay the throw, a bunch of mess happened. With the biggest being that Ben rushed the throw and threw it low and behind where he should have. He should've thrown it 5 yards into the stands.

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbvrwo-2IIs

Watch 11:48-11:56 -- if Ben would've put the ball towards the O and N in Broncos, Steelers tie the game.

[NCSteeler]

You have to be smarter than that and know the sense of urgency while staying on your details. Make teams earn it and punt if you must. Also burning 2 timeouts in the 3rd by Ben was idiotic and that loses you games. It’s better to take a penalty and punt.
l.

Sounds like something that could be better if the players were "coached up"


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[86WARD]

Joe Haden is really good, but he can't run one on one with speedy WRs. Why he and the Steelers insist on this is beyond me.

Could it be that they think their pass rush is good enough to get to the QB before the ball is thrown or thrown accurately? We’ve seen several times that a guy was open and the opposing QB missed. Even Sunday one was overthrown to Sanders. Just a thought...

[Mojouw]

Could it be that they think their pass rush is good enough to get to the QB before the ball is thrown or thrown accurately? We’ve seen several times that a guy was open and the opposing QB missed. Even Sunday one was overthrown to Sanders. Just a thought...

I suspect it is that and that they have to send so much help other places on the field that they stick Haden one on one and hope for the best.

[EzraTank]

That analysis is spot on...especially about Ben...I don't understand the brain cramp boneheaded picks he throws almost every game. I want him so badly to be considered one of the greatest but those brain lapses(too many concussions) cause s him to be left out a lot of the "elite" talk.

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I've been saying this for years. You can't put him up there with the Montana/Brady because he makes so many stupid decisions (like Farve). He should have 1-2 more Superbowl titles.

- - - Updated - - -

Another thing....the Steelers definitely need to work on play calling inside the 5...they are gonna have to come up with something different. I'm not a fan of the fade or the shuttle (shuffle?) pass. Teams have studied it and it doesn't work anymore. Also, if your gonna throw please have more than one man running a route. It looked like AB was the only option to pass to on our final play just like the debacle in the New England game.

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Agreed! I think I even said in the GDT that they never spread the defense with 4 wides when they got down there. You at least have to throw that look at them one time to see how they're going to defend it. It opens up the D to more holes.

[AtlantaDan]

From what I can tell and what I have read around the internet the final play call almost sorta kinda maybe makes sense.

It was an RPO and based on how Denver lined up, Ben selected the "Pass" part of that. I've watched it a bunch since yesterday and if the snap gets there clean and the NT doesn't randomly get pushed back about 3 yards, AB was initially open. When he first cut the route inside, he was "open" - a narrow window but it was there. In fact, he still looks open and has leverage on the CB when the ball is thrown. AB has a step on Harris and as long as Ben leads him to the far post, he hauls it in no problem. Just no one expects the NT to kinda rear up and snatch the ball.

All in all, when Ben had to handle the bad snap and delay the throw, a bunch of mess happened. With the biggest being that Ben rushed the throw and threw it low and behind where he should have. He should've thrown it 5 yards into the stands.

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbvrwo-2IIs

Watch 11:48-11:56 -- if Ben would've put the ball towards the O and N in Broncos, Steelers tie the game.

FWIW the Denver players said it was not a matter of Denver lineman Shelby Harris being blocked 4 yards downfield by Pouncey (as the Steelers claimed postgame) when he made the interception.

It’s really a 46 defense with an extra defender in to fill. And it’s designed to stop the run game obviously, and then play leverage on the slot. Our D-linemen obviously play the run game first, and then they pop [into coverage] for the pass. So we knew the pass rush wasn’t going to be our premium for that call, but if he threw it, it was gonna be short and across the middle

So we have a low-ball player, and we have a guy popping in the hole. It was a great call by [coordinator] Joe Woods, something we practice all the time. On first down, it was the same defense, Chris Harris makes the play on the inverted fade. The second down, we stop the run. And the third down was Shelby’s play.”

Shelby is Shelby Harris, who spent the first three years of his career on and off practice squads (and became a father for the first time three days ago), before finding a home in Denver in 2017. On the play, he was working off Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey, subtly falling into a spot where Roethlisberger might lose him

And lose him Roethlisberger did. Big Ben floated the ball just above Harris’ head, and Harris extended up to snag it

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/26/ba...s-mmqb-week-12

Ben also appears to throw some shade at AB on running the route

That's where I talk to AB, like, 'AB, you have to come flat. You can't drift in the end zone, because those undercuts can happen.' So would the guy have had a chance? Yes, I definitely think he would've had a chance. I can't control that guy. I can only control the safety and if he comes and takes the run away, I can throw it over his head."

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...s/201811270119

[Mojouw]

FWIW the Denver players said it was not a matter of Denver lineman Shelby Harris being blocked 4 yards downfield by Pouncey (as the Steelers claimed postgame) when he made the interception.

It’s really a 46 defense with an extra defender in to fill. And it’s designed to stop the run game obviously, and then play leverage on the slot. Our D-linemen obviously play the run game first, and then they pop [into coverage] for the pass. So we knew the pass rush wasn’t going to be our premium for that call, but if he threw it, it was gonna be short and across the middle

So we have a low-ball player, and we have a guy popping in the hole. It was a great call by [coordinator] Joe Woods, something we practice all the time. On first down, it was the same defense, Chris Harris makes the play on the inverted fade. The second down, we stop the run. And the third down was Shelby’s play.”

Shelby is Shelby Harris, who spent the first three years of his career on and off practice squads (and became a father for the first time three days ago), before finding a home in Denver in 2017. On the play, he was working off Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey, subtly falling into a spot where Roethlisberger might lose him

And lose him Roethlisberger did. Big Ben floated the ball just above Harris’ head, and Harris extended up to snag it

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/26/ba...s-mmqb-week-12

Ben also appears to throw some shade at AB on running the route

That's where I talk to AB, like, 'AB, you have to come flat. You can't drift in the end zone, because those undercuts can happen.' So would the guy have had a chance? Yes, I definitely think he would've had a chance. I can't control that guy. I can only control the safety and if he comes and takes the run away, I can throw it over his head."

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...s/201811270119

That's some good information. Any way you slice it, I like the play call more and more. AB had acres of space to work with and a step on Harris. The execution was a bit muddled. Slighlty better execution on the part of the players and that is an easy pitch and catch for a score.

[86WARD]

I’m not sure CB doesn’t make that interception if Shelby Harris doesn’t make it. Initially AB had a step but CB cuts right under.

[Mojouw]

I’m not sure CB doesn’t make that interception if Shelby Harris doesn’t make it. Initially AB had a step but CB cuts right under.

I think that was what Ben was talking about. If he cuts hard across the lettering in the endzone, AB keeps that initial separation with Harris and likely extends it. There was no safety to run into...I've watched it like 15 times over the last few days and it was just poorly executed all around BUT a cool as hell play concept.

[AtlantaDan]

I think that was what Ben was talking about. If he cuts hard across the lettering in the endzone, AB keeps that initial separation with Harris and likely extends it. There was no safety to run into...I've watched it like 15 times over the last few days and it was just poorly executed all around BUT a cool as hell play concept.

I missed this gem from Radio Ben this morning

The Steelers quarterback wanted the final series of plays to focus on wide receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster, who had 13 catches for 189 yards, including a 97-yard catch-and-run for a score.

"I think we should have went to him four straight plays," Roethlisberger said.

https://triblive.com/sports/steelers...-focus-on-juju

AB will love that

So the problem was either the play Fichtner called or the route AB ran but not Ben failing to see the lineman and throwing a ball that the DB might have picked if the Broncos lineman did not get to it first

Drama!

[Mojouw]

I missed this gem from Radio Ben this morning

The Steelers quarterback wanted the final series of plays to focus on wide receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster, who had 13 catches for 189 yards, including a 97-yard catch-and-run for a score.

"I think we should have went to him four straight plays," Roethlisberger said.

https://triblive.com/sports/steelers...-focus-on-juju

AB will love that

So the problem was either the play Fichtner called or the route AB ran but not Ben failing to see the lineman and throwing a ball that the DB might have picked if the Broncos lineman did not get to it first

Drama!

It's a process versus results thing for me. Good play call. Bad snap and route and throw.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

My thoughts, wish the Steelers would quit losing to the Steelers.

[Istina]

I don't like the RPO mostly because Ben isn't an option quarterback and isn't used to making decisions in the run game. Me, personally, I'd line em up in the "I" and run it 3 times, 27th ranked rush defense and Nix is a beast, if that fails put it Ben's hands on 4th down. This offensive line should be able to move a defense 3 yards on one of those plays.

[teegre]

Two DBs each on AB & JuJu.
The opposition’s best CB on McDonald.

That leaves only SIX in the box.

#run
#morethan13carries
#BuckyBrookscansuckit

[Edman]

Two DBs each on AB & JuJu.
The opposition’s best CB on McDonald.

That leaves only SIX in the box.

#run
#morethan13carries
#BuckyBrookscansuckit

That's some Todd Haley crap right there.