Agent's Take: Comparing 2004 draft-class greats Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger

[polamalubeast]

Here's a look at the past and what the future might hold for three QBs who are forever linked

Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger are inextricably linked because of the 2004 NFL draft. Manning (selected first overall), Rivers (fourth) and Roethlisberger (11th) have all lived up to the billing of their first-round status.

The 2004 first round is modern-day gold standard for quarterback stability. All three have spent their entire 15-year NFL careers playing for one team. The chart below summarizes the quarterbacks' respective accomplishments and statistics.

....

Roethlisberger's future


Roethlisberger had hinted at retirement in previous offseasons, much like Hall of Fame quarterback Brett Favre did in his latter years with the Packers. He quickly announced he was returning for 2018 after the Steelers were upset by the Jaguars last season in the AFC divisional playoffs. Roethlisberger took it a step further shortly after Rudolph was drafted when he proclaimed he planned on playing another three to five years.

Roethlisberger's play this season hasn't given the Steelers any reason to think otherwise. He is fourth in the NFL with 3,202 passing yards. Roethlisberger's 23 touchdown passes are tied for the league's fifth most, and he is on pace for career highs of 5,123 passing yards and 37 touchdown passes.


Roethlisberger suggested he was more concerned about winning more Super Bowls than a record-breaking contract during the offseason. He indicated that the contracts of other core players also needed to be addressed. One such player may not be running back Le'Veon Bell, who is sitting out the season rather than play under a $14.544 million franchise tag.

The Steelers have yet to let Roethlisberger play out a contract. Roethlisberger's rookie deal was extended in 2008 with two years remaining. He was entering his contract year when he signed his last extension.

Roethlisberger may have an opportunity to put his money where his mouth is in 2019 by following in Drew Brees' footsteps. There's a good chance Brees could have become the NFL's first $30 million-per-year player on a short-term deal had he not given the Saints a financial break for the first time in numerous contract dealings with the franchise. The 39 year old took a two-year, $50 million contract with $27 million fully guaranteed to remain in New Orleans after refusing to exploit his leverage by exploring options with other teams. Some, if not all, of the cash and salary-cap room saved by Bell's decision could be devoted to a new Roethlisberger deal.

Roethlisberger's previous contracts made him the league's second-highest-paid player when signed. The $33.5 million-per-year extension Aaron Rodgers received from the Packers in the preseason is the current standard. Should Roethlisberger decide to pay lip service to the idea of leaving money on the table, an extension averaging approximately $33.25 million per year would put him in the same place in the quarterback-salary hierarchy relative to where he was upon signing in 2015. At the time, Rodgers was the NFL's highest-paid player at $22 million per year.

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Hall of Fame prospects


Roethlisberger, who was the 2004 NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year, is the closest thing to a sure-fire Hall of Famer out of the three. He may even get enshrined on the first ballot.


read more

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/a...oethlisberger/

[86WARD]

Better class than the 1983 class. Marino is the only one from 83 that is a better QB than Ben and Rivers.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The Eli Manning debate is the ultimate oxymoron IMO from most Eli haters.

On one hand are the fans that say winning super bowls is what matters. Any of those fans that are not New England fans will complain that their QB or team "needs to beat the Patriots". And yes, that includes a lot of Steeler fans. But all Eli Manning has done is win 2 Super Bowls, 2 Super Bowl MVP awards and do it against the Patriots.

The other hand, some fans will point to Manning's numbers and say that he is inferior to the other 2 top picks from his draft year. The Ben fans can say he has been to 3 and won 2, has better stats and all of that is true, but he hasnt really had the Patriots number at all.

As much as Rivers can put up stats, I still maintain that Ben was the top of the class. Manning 2nd and Rivers 3rd.

[Craic]

Better class than the 1983 class. Marino is the only one from 83 that is a better QB than Ben and Rivers.

I'd take Elway over Rivers. For Ben, I'd say it's a push (comparing QBs in their time). Also have to remember that draft produced Jim Kelly who was a very good QB as well as Tony Eason who went to a SB. The scary thing about the 1983 draft was that it also produced Eric Dickerson, Curt Warner, Mark Clayton, Roger Craig, Ken O'brien, Bruce Matthews, Darrell Green, Richard Dent, and Karl Mecklenburg. A total of seven players from that draft are in the Hall of Fame.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I'd take Elway over Rivers. For Ben, I'd say it's a push (comparing QBs in their time). Also have to remember that draft produced Jim Kelly who was a very good QB as well as Tony Eason who went to a SB. The scary thing about the 1983 draft was that it also produced Eric Dickerson, Curt Warner, Mark Clayton, Roger Craig, Ken O'brien, Bruce Matthews, Darrell Green, Richard Dent, and Karl Mecklenburg. A total of seven players from that draft are in the Hall of Fame.

I'd take Elway, Marino, Kelly over Rivers or Manning. All 3 of those guys were better QB's.

Curt Warner was great until the injury. That guy's ability always gets lost in the shuffle, or being mistaken with Kurt Warner.

[GoSlash27]

Interesting story about that 2004 draft:


San Diego and NY ended up with their second choice QBs because they got into a high- stakes hostage exchange. We lucked out by winding up with the best QB in the draft.

[86WARD]

I'd take Elway over Rivers. For Ben, I'd say it's a push (comparing QBs in their time). Also have to remember that draft produced Jim Kelly who was a very good QB as well as Tony Eason who went to a SB. The scary thing about the 1983 draft was that it also produced Eric Dickerson, Curt Warner, Mark Clayton, Roger Craig, Ken O'brien, Bruce Matthews, Darrell Green, Richard Dent, and Karl Mecklenburg. A total of seven players from that draft are in the Hall of Fame.

I definitely wouldn’t. Elway was/is way overrated and really was nothing until about 5 seasons from retirement. Guys still living off his “helicopter run”...lol. As for the draft class. Off the charts good.

[polamalubeast]

Maybe John Elway is overrated, but at the same time, I think his stats would have been a lot better if he would not have had Dan Reeves as head coach for 10 seasons.

John Elway exploded for his stats when Reeves was fired ... Reeves was like Jeff Fisher .... He was handcuffing his QB!

[Craic]

I definitely wouldn’t. Elway was/is way overrated and really was nothing until about 5 seasons from retirement. Guys still living off his “helicopter run”...lol. As for the draft class. Off the charts good.

How often did you see him play? I lived in the Northwest, so when we weren't getting Seahawk games, we got Bronco games. I can't tell you how many times I watched him lead his team to win a game. We hated the Broncos, and a lot of it was because of him.

[Psycho Ward 86]

and did we all forget that Elway lost 3 superbowls before he won 2 to top off his career? Elway's clutch factor is definitely overrated

[Fire Goodell]

Ben > Douche Bag Rivers > Eli

But Eli was like the Spy from Stratego. Not really a powerful piece but he took down the Marshall (2 SB wins vs Brady)

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

How often did you see him play? I lived in the Northwest, so when we weren't getting Seahawk games, we got Bronco games. I can't tell you how many times I watched him lead his team to win a game. We hated the Broncos, and a lot of it was because of him.

Agreed. Elway early in his career was the best QB in the NFL. He was like Michael Jordan in the early years with the Bulls, when there was no talent around him and he just carried the team himself. Elway went to the 86 super bowl with Sammy Winder, Vance Johnson, Steve Sewell, Mark Jackson as his offensive weapons. Elway was already old with declining skills when he won the Super Bowls, but he brought his teams back from behind to win in the 4th quarter seemingly routinely.

John Elway was a better NFL QB than any of those guys in the 2004 draft and yes I am saying as a Steeler fan since approx. 1979 that Ben is not as good as John Elway.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

and did we all forget that Elway lost 3 superbowls before he won 2 to top off his career? Elway's clutch factor is definitely overrated

Elway wasn't the only Denver Bronco on those teams that lost in the Superbowl. But he was the only pro bowler on the Broncos offensive roster in 1987. Sammy Winder and John Elway were the only Pro bowlers on the 1986 super bowl team. He was the only real offensive talent on a team that went to those Super Bowls. It was like Michael Jordan scoring 63 points in the playoffs vs the Boston Celtics, when Jordan was the only real good player on the Bulls.

It wasn't until Elway finally had some talent around him like Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe and Rod Smith that they could actually compete with teams in the NFC.

[Butch]

Maybe John Elway is overrated, but at the same time, I think his stats would have been a lot better if he would not have had Dan Reeves as head coach for 10 seasons.

John Elway exploded for his stats when Reeves was fired ... Reeves was like Jeff Fisher .... He was handcuffing his QB!

That's his fault he was drafted by the colts and refused to go there. I couldn't stand elway for being a punk like that.

[86WARD]

Elway was a guy that had 5 seasons with as many or more interceptions than TDs, Highest QB Rating was 93, Never had over 27 TDS. Had some pretty terrible QB Ratings in a couple Super Bowls. Disappeared in the big game. Even the ones he won, his stats weren’t that impressive. So much for being “clutch”. No All Pro Selections.

I’ve seen Elway play (emulated him a lot when I was younger) and his play on field was actually better than his stats would show. Similar to how Bradshaw was. However, I’d still take Ben and his play over Elway. I’d still probably take Rivers.

Marino is a Top-10 QB of all-time. Elway isn’t. Elway wasn’t the best QB of his time...not even close.

Montana, Manning, Favre, Marino, Graham, Brees, Young, Unitas, Brady, Rodgers all better than Elway IMO. He’s very overrated.

I’ll just agree to disagree.

[polamalubeast]

Agreed. Elway early in his career was the best QB in the NFL. He was like Michael Jordan in the early years with the Bulls, when there was no talent around him and he just carried the team himself. Elway went to the 86 super bowl with Sammy Winder, Vance Johnson, Steve Sewell, Mark Jackson as his offensive weapons. Elway was already old with declining skills when he won the Super Bowls, but he brought his teams back from behind to win in the 4th quarter seemingly routinely.

John Elway was a better NFL QB than any of those guys in the 2004 draft and yes I am saying as a Steeler fan since approx. 1979 that Ben is not as good as John Elway.

You can not compare Elway to Jordan, since Jordan was already at the level of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird in the 1980s.

Marino and Montana were better in the 1980s than Elway and it's not close ..... I still do not understand why Elway won the mvp in 1987 when Jerry Rice had 22 TD in 12 games....Elway had 19 TD pass in 12 games in 1987!

[Craic]

Elway was a guy that had 5 seasons with as many or more interceptions than TDs, Highest QB Rating was 93, Never had over 27 TDS. Had some pretty terrible QB Ratings in a couple Super Bowls. Disappeared in the big game. Even the ones he won, his stats weren’t that impressive. So much for being “clutch”. No All Pro Selections.

I’ve seen Elway play (emulated him a lot when I was younger) and his play on field was actually better than his stats would show. Similar to how Bradshaw was. However, I’d still take Ben and his play over Elway. I’d still probably take Rivers.

Marino is a Top-10 QB of all-time. Elway isn’t. Elway wasn’t the best QB of his time...not even close.

Montana, Manning, Favre, Marino, Graham, Brees, Young, Unitas, Brady, Rodgers all better than Elway IMO. He’s very overrated.

I’ll just agree to disagree.

A QB rating of 93 in the 80s and early 90s is probably the same as a QB rating of 110-115 today. Rule changes. Offensive scheming, and everything else make such a big difference. Was Elway the greatest of his era? No. But had he come ten years before or ten years after, he would have been in contention. It's merely fate that he happened to play ball at the same time as Marino and Montana. It's like discounting Ben because he happened to play football at the same time as Brady and P. Manning, who are perhaps two of the top five QBs in NFL history.

[86WARD]

You can not compare Elway to Jordan, since Jordan was already at the level of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird in the 1980s.

Marino and Montana were better in the 1980s than Elway and it's not close ..... I still do not understand why Elway won the mvp in 1987 when Jerry Rice had 22 TD in 12 games....Elway had 19 TD pass in 12 games in 1987!

Elway won the MVP because Rice and Montana took from each other. Elway wasn’t the true MVP.

[polamalubeast]

Elway won the MVP because Rice and Montana took from each other. Elway wasn’t the true MVP.

Elway was not even in the top 10 in QB rating in 1987!

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...87/passing.htm

[86WARD]

A QB rating of 93 in the 80s and early 90s is probably the same as a QB rating of 110-115 today. Rule changes. Offensive scheming, and everything else make such a big difference. Was Elway the greatest of his era? No. But had he come ten years before or ten years after, he would have been in contention. It's merely fate that he happened to play ball at the same time as Marino and Montana. It's like discounting Ben because he happened to play football at the same time as Brady and P. Manning, who are perhaps two of the top five QBs in NFL history.

In that era though, guys were putting up high 90s and low 100s. His highest was 93 and it’s not like he hovered around that. He was a mid-70s to mid 80s guy if I recall correctly.

[polamalubeast]

In that era though, guys were putting up high 90s and low 100s. His highest was 93 and it’s not like he hovered around that. He was a mid-70s to mid 80s guy if I recall correctly.

In 1993,when Elway had a QB rating of 93,Steve Young was at 101 and Aikman at 99,so you are right!

[86WARD]

I’m not saying Elway was bad. I just think he’s way over rated as a talent.

[vasteeler]

I would have loved to have Elway back in the day. He was way better than any of the Quarterbacks the Steelers rolled out in the 80s. I would be willing to bet that we would have a couple of more trophies.

[Fire Goodell]

I would have loved to have Elway back in the day. He was way better than any of the Quarterbacks the Steelers rolled out in the 80s. I would be willing to bet that we would have a couple of more trophies.

For sure, we had a lot of competitive squads from 1992-2004, trotting out Neil O'Donnell and Kordell Stewart. Then Big Ben happened and we won a couple SBs

[Craic]

In 1993,when Elway had a QB rating of 93,Steve Young was at 101 and Aikman at 99,so you are right!

Of course, Young was throwing to perhaps the best player to ever set foot on a football field and Aikman was benefiting from the same thing Ben is currently benefiting from. Again, what was the comparison between Elway and other QBs? Moreover, what talent was around them?

I always used to joke that Elway could win everything but the big game. However, he showed that wasn't true. Do I think Elway was a superstar? No. However, I'd be hardpressed to find five QBs in the 1980s that I'd rather have than him. Montana, Marino, and who? Kelly? Fouts? Moon? An as yet unproven Steve Young? No way I'm taking Simms, Esiason, Kosar, or even Theismann over him. McMahon or Dave Krieg? Testaverde? No, no, and no.

[Fire Goodell]

Welllll I think we can all agree that Elway is better than Bubby Brister and Neil O'Donnell and he woulda won us some sb's

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I would have loved to have Elway back in the day. He was way better than any of the Quarterbacks the Steelers rolled out in the 80s. I would be willing to bet that we would have a couple of more trophies.

I agree. I also think that Elway was a better QB than Terry Bradshaw was. Elway just had lousy talent around him for many years, but still managed to have success.

I know there will be Steeler fans that will harp on TB's Super Bowl wins and rings. He was definitely a key piece of those 4 SB wins and a deserved hall of famers. Look at Elway and the 1987 Denver Broncos and ask how many hall of fame players were on that team....the answer is only 1: Elway. Then ask who the top 5 players were other than Elway and I submit that Karl Mecklenberg, Rulon Jones, Sammy Winder, Vance Johnson and Dennis Smith are likely the best guys on that team.

Elway is certainly not the best QB to ever play in the NFL. But I think he is definitely in the top 10 and so does John Clayton of ESPN (Elway #6) http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...st-nfl-qb-ever Also a panel of SI football writers ranks Elway at 6 https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/27/nf...ana-john-elway . I would not put Ben in the top 10 and apparently neither do any of these tenured NFL writers.

[Fire Goodell]

Marino was the best imo. Peyton Manning was also another who I was really impressed with

[steelcityboyz]

Warren Moon is often not mentioned I always thought he was a very good Qb without the talent to carry him and the team further.