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Thread: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

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    Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    For the past five years, the Pittsburgh Steelers have been seeking a pair of bookend linebackers to bolster the defense. They have been missing the pressure they used to get from legendary pairs like Greg Lloyd/Kevin Greene, and James Harrison/Joey Porter. The more pressure the outside linebackers get, the easier it is on the secondary.

    Well, it appears the Steelers have their next pair of pass rushers in T.J. Watt and Bud Dupree. All it took was a position switch. Often labled a bust when playing on the right side, Dupree showed flashes of his potential. A switch to his natural side has brought his abilities to the forefront.

    read more

    https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/20...ct-on-defense/

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    So they just have to switch sides and Artie Burns plays better, right, right,?

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    So who’s the Einstein on defense that said - let’s make him play his “unnatural” position and see how he does

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by ETL View Post
    So who’s the Einstein on defense that said - let’s make him play his “unnatural” position and see how he does

    it couldn't be a coach.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by ETL View Post
    So who’s the Einstein on defense that said - let’s make him play his “unnatural” position and see how he does
    Sounds like a Lebeau move.

    Then, when it doesn't work out everyone blames the player.

    When it does work out, everyone calls the coach a genius.

    Has there ever been a bigger fraud in Pittsburgh sports than Lebeau? I guess we will never know......

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    What is the context of each sack or pressure?

    Weren't there people on here saying it's impossible for them to switch sides?

    So far Dupree hasn't shown much worthy of re-signing him.
    Last edited by Steeldude; 11-13-2018 at 05:09 PM.
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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by ETL View Post
    So who’s the Einstein on defense that said - let’s make him play his “unnatural” position and see how he does
    James Harrison.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    James Harrison.
    But they still put Watt in Harrison’s position and Bud on the other side.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    But they still put Watt in Harrison’s position and Bud on the other side.
    Maybe I'm confusing myself. But when Dupree was drafted they switched him because Harrison wasn't moving. Then they put Watt in Harrison's old spot to protect him from LT in his rookie year.

    I'm not saying it was a good idea. I'm just saying that there were actual reasons for the decisions rather than "Duhhrrrr" which is pretty quickly where this thread was going.

    Plus, I was being a smart ass.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Maybe I'm confusing myself. But when Dupree was drafted they switched him because Harrison wasn't moving. Then they put Watt in Harrison's old spot to protect him from LT in his rookie year.

    I'm not saying it was a good idea. I'm just saying that there were actual reasons for the decisions rather than "Duhhrrrr" which is pretty quickly where this thread was going.

    Plus, I was being a smart ass.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Maybe I'm confusing myself. But when Dupree was drafted they switched him because Harrison wasn't moving.
    Yep... because, Harrison could not play on the other side (best exemplified by not being able to beat out Clark Haggans on that side, despite Haggans being extremely average).

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    This is the exact reason he was moved. I would rather have 2 guys that can both consistently play well vs LTs but we don't. Bud is producing is the point of it. I hope he destroys(who does that say?) Josh Walker this Sunday. This LB corp is not the most talented group we have seen here. But they are playing well together right now. I sincerely hope they continue to do so.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    Story of his life. He does ok against poor/rookie talent or if he is unblocked. Hopefully he is gone next season.
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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    Story of his life. He does ok against poor/rookie talent or if he is unblocked. Hopefully he is gone next season.
    Definitely need to bring back Harrison.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Definitely need to bring back Harrison.




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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    This is the exact reason he was moved. I would rather have 2 guys that can both consistently play well vs LTs but we don't. Bud is producing is the point of it. I hope he destroys(who does that say?) Josh Walker this Sunday. This LB corp is not the most talented group we have seen here. But they are playing well together right now. I sincerely hope they continue to do so.
    I agree with you. So one question I have for this upcoming draft......If there is an ILB and OLB that can rush the passer available at #32, what one do the Steelers pick? Should they prioritize one over the other?

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Ok. So all the talk of pass rushers that can beat LT or consistently win their match-ups got me interested. Who are "premier" guys at OLB getting their sacks against? Are they routinely beating "good to great LT"?

    Here is 2018 Khalil Mack:

    Tack
    Fumb
    Date
    Week
    Tm
    Opp
    Result
    Sk
    QBHits
    FF
    1 CHI @ GNB L 23-24 1.0 0 1
    2 CHI SEA W 24-17 1.0 0 1
    3 CHI @ ARI W 16-14 2.0 3 1
    4 CHI TAM W 48-10 1.0 1 1
    6 CHI @ MIA L 28-31 0.0 0 0
    7 CHI NWE L 31-38 0.0 0 0
    10 CHI DET W 34-22 2.0 2 0

    4 of his 7 sacks have come against Arizona who start DJ Humphries and Andre Smith at OT and Detroit who rolls out Rick Wagner and Taylor Decker. Those dudes are not good. I mean Detroit;s line hasn't blocked air real well this year, let alone pass rushers. Seattle's line is "meh" and so is Tampa's. He got GB in the opener - that line is legit. So, not trying to minimize Mack, but he is beating up on bad lines and treading water against good or better O-lines.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    So, trade Dupree for 2 first round picks?

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    I looked at JJ Watt as well. Quick Answer he beats everyone. I looked at Von Miller and he is more like Mack - abusing anything less than the best lines/teams he faces and treading water against the good ones.

    2018 Danielle Hunter and this one hurts...


    Tack
    Fumb
    Week
    Opp
    Sk
    QBHits
    FF
    1 SFO 1.0 1 0
    2 @ GNB 1.0 1 0
    3 BUF 1.0 1 0
    4 @ LAR 1.0 1 0
    5 @ PHI 1.0 2 0
    6 ARI 2.0 3 0
    7 @ NYJ 1.0 2 0
    8 NOR 0.0 0 0
    9 DET 3.5 4 0

    Guy is just running through everyone! Except the best offense he faced, New Orleans.

    So. Dupree is not in the "elite" category with Miller and Mack. He isn't in the "not getting stopped ever" with Hunter and Watt. But he seems to be settling into the "above average dangerous" category that a forms the second tier of pass rushers across the league. In other words, I will abuse any mismatches or blocking scheme mistakes put in front of me. Is it ideal? Nope. But there are very few guys across the NFL that are just lining up and clowning on high end LTs.

    A final note, I have no idea if this really works - because I'm not watching all these games. For instance, last night Fackrell for GB had like 3 sacks. They were all DONG sacks where Wilson held the ball for well over 4 seconds and Fackrell eventually brought him down. Despite Troy Aikman's effusive praise, Kyle Fackrell is not a terrifying pass rusher. He is an effective one. Which is what Dupree has settled in at for the first half of 2018. The question is whether he can harness his physical gifts to rise even higher?

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Please please please please please please don't keep Dupree on the $10 million option. I can really see it heading that way and it's not going to work out to our benefit.

    He's been "better" this year, but the bar was so low they practically had to dig a hole for it. He is settling in to low-journeyman-with-occasional-flashes level, and that's about what his potential is. A $4M or $5M player - but someone will value him at twice that on The Market because omg youth and potential. This is a case where we would be better off not overpaying. Fill the spot with an average player, not a stud. Draft someone in the middle rounds and see if we get lucky. We will not be much worse off if they fall flat.


    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I agree with you. So one question I have for this upcoming draft......If there is an ILB and OLB that can rush the passer available at #32, what one do the Steelers pick? Should they prioritize one over the other?
    ILB and it's not even close. There are many ways to rush the passer, and we already do a decent job of that. A weak pass rush is not our problem.

    On the other hand, the lack of speed and coverage ability at ILB has left a gaping hole in the middle of the defense that any competent QB can exploit whenever they choose to. The only way for us to compensate for that is to gamble. It might work in any one given game, but for consistently winning against high-level opponents, that's a fatal flaw. And beating a minimum of 3, maybe 4 of those opponents in a row is what we will need to do in order to win a championship. So without a solution to that, I don't like our odds.

    Amping up the pass rush is just slightly increasing our odds on the gambling. But what we really need to do is address the root problem that causes the need for the gambling.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Please please please please please please don't keep Dupree on the $10 million option. I can really see it heading that way and it's not going to work out to our benefit.

    He's been "better" this year, but the bar was so low they practically had to dig a hole for it. He is settling in to low-journeyman-with-occasional-flashes level, and that's about what his potential is. A $4M or $5M player - but someone will value him at twice that on The Market because omg youth and potential. This is a case where we would be better off not overpaying. Fill the spot with an average player, not a stud. Draft someone in the middle rounds and see if we get lucky. We will not be much worse off if they fall flat.




    ILB and it's not even close. There are many ways to rush the passer, and we already do a decent job of that. A weak pass rush is not our problem.

    On the other hand, the lack of speed and coverage ability at ILB has left a gaping hole in the middle of the defense that any competent QB can exploit whenever they choose to. The only way for us to compensate for that is to gamble. It might work in any one given game, but for consistently winning against high-level opponents, that's a fatal flaw. And beating a minimum of 3, maybe 4 of those opponents in a row is what we will need to do in order to win a championship. So without a solution to that, I don't like our odds.

    Amping up the pass rush is just slightly increasing our odds on the gambling. But what we really need to do is address the root problem that causes the need for the gambling.
    It is "only" $9.2 million. Taking a look at similar EDGE players, Dupree's value comes in at $5 million on the low end and $11 million on the high end. So a range of guys from Malcom Smith to Nick Perry.

    I think about right would be Jabaal Sheard at around 7-8.5 million per year. I know that sounds high, but I can not find a guy across the NFL that is on his second contract with 6-8 sacks a season that gets paid in the 3-5 million dollar range. Rookies that are outperforming their contracts or veterans who are on a third contract.

    Hopefully if they want to keep him, they can "buy-out" Dupree's option and sign him to an extension that has an "out" at Year 2, 3, and 4. Then you can draft and develop competition.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Definitely need to bring back Harrison.
    Better than Burns...I mean Dupree.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Please please please please please please don't keep Dupree on the $10 million option. I can really see it heading that way and it's not going to work out to our benefit.

    He's been "better" this year, but the bar was so low they practically had to dig a hole for it. He is settling in to low-journeyman-with-occasional-flashes level, and that's about what his potential is. A $4M or $5M player - but someone will value him at twice that on The Market because omg youth and potential. This is a case where we would be better off not overpaying. Fill the spot with an average player, not a stud. Draft someone in the middle rounds and see if we get lucky. We will not be much worse off if they fall flat.




    ILB and it's not even close. There are many ways to rush the passer, and we already do a decent job of that. A weak pass rush is not our problem.

    On the other hand, the lack of speed and coverage ability at ILB has left a gaping hole in the middle of the defense that any competent QB can exploit whenever they choose to. The only way for us to compensate for that is to gamble. It might work in any one given game, but for consistently winning against high-level opponents, that's a fatal flaw. And beating a minimum of 3, maybe 4 of those opponents in a row is what we will need to do in order to win a championship. So without a solution to that, I don't like our odds.

    Amping up the pass rush is just slightly increasing our odds on the gambling. But what we really need to do is address the root problem that causes the need for the gambling.
    You have to let him develop. Give him another 5 years at least. (Yes, sarcasm)
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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    It is "only" $9.2 million. Taking a look at similar EDGE players, Dupree's value comes in at $5 million on the low end and $11 million on the high end. So a range of guys from Malcom Smith to Nick Perry.

    I think about right would be Jabaal Sheard at around 7-8.5 million per year. I know that sounds high, but I can not find a guy across the NFL that is on his second contract with 6-8 sacks a season that gets paid in the 3-5 million dollar range. Rookies that are outperforming their contracts or veterans who are on a third contract.

    Hopefully if they want to keep him, they can "buy-out" Dupree's option and sign him to an extension that has an "out" at Year 2, 3, and 4. Then you can draft and develop competition.
    I just don't think Dupree brings anything more to the table than a $5M journeyman. Like, you could plug almost anyone who is not universally, mind-numbingly bad into that position and not notice much difference - other people are what drive the pass rush on this team.

    You don't need a young guy on his second contract, you don't need an established starter or someone who gets 6-8 sacks. A guy who got 3 sacks in limited playing time and is hoping to land somewhere he can try out for a bigger role, that will do just fine. That guy will probably get Dupree's stats and have Dupree's impact if he is plugged into the position.

    I am not doubting you on his likely market valuation or comparable players, I hope that much is clear. Just that I think Dupree adds nothing special, but is likely going to command as much money as if he is doing something special, and that's a mistake if we pay it. We are not really stuck in a bind because there are "no better options" unless we have talked ourselves into it. There are a ton of better options, we just need to have a little faith that the world is not going to end if someone else is providing us with mediocre production at a mediocre price, instead of Dupree providing us with mediocre production at a premium price.

    Who else can we get? Almost anyone.
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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I just don't think Dupree brings anything more to the table than a $5M journeyman. Like, you could plug almost anyone who is not universally, mind-numbingly bad into that position and not notice much difference - other people are what drive the pass rush on this team.

    You don't need a young guy on his second contract, you don't need an established starter or someone who gets 6-8 sacks. A guy who got 3 sacks in limited playing time and is hoping to land somewhere he can try out for a bigger role, that will do just fine. That guy will probably get Dupree's stats and have Dupree's impact if he is plugged into the position.

    I am not doubting you on his likely market valuation or comparable players, I hope that much is clear. Just that I think Dupree adds nothing special, but is likely going to command as much money as if he is doing something special, and that's a mistake if we pay it. We are not really stuck in a bind because there are "no better options" unless we have talked ourselves into it. There are a ton of better options, we just need to have a little faith that the world is not going to end if someone else is providing us with mediocre production at a mediocre price, instead of Dupree providing us with mediocre production at a premium price.

    Who else can we get? Almost anyone.
    I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. I think I am getting this out of your last couple of posts:

    1. Dupree is a 6-8 sack a year "meh" pass rusher.
    2. You are willing to agree that the NFL market values that at 7-11 million dollars per year.
    3. To equal Dupree's production the Steelers need to target a guy that is a veteran that has had limited playing time up until now and will reach that 6-8 sack level with increased playing time as the Steelers starting OLB. This player doesn't need to be an "expensive" 25-28 year old guy coming off a rookie deal or an "established name".

    So that takes us into the tier of 3-5 million dollar pass rushers. The question becomes if anyone is comfortable with guys like Aaron Lynch, Cassius March, and Barkevious Mingo being the starter opposite TJ Watt. I know this isn't going to be popular, but I would argue those guys are significantly worse than Bud Dupree. I do not believe those players would equal Dupree's production on the Steelers. I mean they have that guy on the roster in Chickillo and he isn't able to pull off what you are describing.

    I think they difference between us is that I have no problem paying the option as long as OTHER potential players are brought it. A draft pick or two and a lower cost veteran signing. I would have no problem with the Steelers going into the 2019 regular season with Watt/Dupree/Adyeni/Draft Pick/FA Signing and sending those guys out there in a rotation to amp up the pass rush. Then after the season, you pick the best 3 to retain and add another draft pick and FA dice roll and repeat the process.

    The thing is, 9 million dollars against a rising 2019 cap and 6-8 sacks as an edge rusher is not mediocre production at a premium price. It is average production at a slightly above average price. The ONLY truly terrible option here for the Steelers is to sign Dupree to a 5 year extension that pays out 11-13 million dollars a year and has no escape hatch for the team until year 4 or something. That is Nick Perry's contract for GB and it is terrible.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. I think I am getting this out of your last couple of posts:

    1. Dupree is a 6-8 sack a year "meh" pass rusher.
    2. You are willing to agree that the NFL market values that at 7-11 million dollars per year.
    3. To equal Dupree's production the Steelers need to target a guy that is a veteran that has had limited playing time up until now and will reach that 6-8 sack level with increased playing time as the Steelers starting OLB. This player doesn't need to be an "expensive" 25-28 year old guy coming off a rookie deal or an "established name".

    So that takes us into the tier of 3-5 million dollar pass rushers. The question becomes if anyone is comfortable with guys like Aaron Lynch, Cassius March, and Barkevious Mingo being the starter opposite TJ Watt. I know this isn't going to be popular, but I would argue those guys are significantly worse than Bud Dupree. I do not believe those players would equal Dupree's production on the Steelers. I mean they have that guy on the roster in Chickillo and he isn't able to pull off what you are describing.

    I think they difference between us is that I have no problem paying the option as long as OTHER potential players are brought it. A draft pick or two and a lower cost veteran signing. I would have no problem with the Steelers going into the 2019 regular season with Watt/Dupree/Adyeni/Draft Pick/FA Signing and sending those guys out there in a rotation to amp up the pass rush. Then after the season, you pick the best 3 to retain and add another draft pick and FA dice roll and repeat the process.

    The thing is, 9 million dollars against a rising 2019 cap and 6-8 sacks as an edge rusher is not mediocre production at a premium price. It is average production at a slightly above average price. The ONLY truly terrible option here for the Steelers is to sign Dupree to a 5 year extension that pays out 11-13 million dollars a year and has no escape hatch for the team until year 4 or something. That is Nick Perry's contract for GB and it is terrible.

    What I am arguing is that if you are a starter at OLB, 4-6 sacks is what you can expect just for showing up. That has little to do with anything, though. How much are you impacting the average play; how often are you disrupting what the offense is trying to do? 90 percent of the time you do that and don't even get a stat for it. That is what separates a good pass rusher from a mediocre one from a bad one; sack totals mean fuck all except to inflate the asking price of your next contract.

    Dupree still hasn't done anything beyond be mediocre at best in that department. Chickillo hasn't done any better, fair enough. That doesn't mean Dupree is any good, or that anyone else will have trouble equaling his mediocre game impact. Sure, you pick a known below-average backup as an example of how difficult it is to find a replacement - how does that work? Everyone else is not going to be inadequate because Chickillo is below-average.

    You want the answer, look no further than Bostic or VW. Neither is an impact player, neither does anything special by themselves. But either one is adequate if surrounded by the right kinds of players; the other players help them be successful. That's all we need at OLB, we have the other impact players for the pass rush. And the asking price for VW or Bostic talent at OLB sure doesn't start at $8-9 million per.

    Those players exist. They are everywhere. It is just a matter of understanding the problem in front of us. And of course giving yourself more than one option. You will have your Chickillos who just aren't up to being a starter and wash out. That's why you have a journeyman FA and a mid/low draft pick. If neither one of those succeeds, then you are either really unlucky or really bad at this. But what is just as bad is locking yourself into a lame situation because you've convinced yourself that $10 million mediocrity is par for the course. That's just nonsense. If you are in a position where that's really an option being seriously considered, then you need to just throw everything out and start over.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by ETL View Post
    So who’s the Einstein on defense that said - let’s make him play his “unnatural” position and see how he does
    Did anybody bother to look at what side Dupree played in college at Kentucky??

    One hint. Its the same side he played his first few seasons as a Steeler until this season. He has just had somebody playing the other side for a few seasons. In college it was ZaDarius Smith who is now with the Ravens.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Did anybody bother to look at what side Dupree played in college at Kentucky??

    One hint. Its the same side he played his first few seasons as a Steeler until this season. He has just had somebody playing the other side for a few seasons. In college it was ZaDarius Smith who is now with the Ravens.
    So then what is the definition of a “natural” position ?

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    I can't believe people are writing off Dupree now. Let's see what he does the rest of the year. Right now, he's on pace for about 8 sacks.

    What if Dupree balls out and ends with 10+ sacks. His first 4 games said no way. The last 4-5 say maybe.

    If he finishes the year strong, then goes to the playoffs and makes a difference in the playoffs....who says he isn't worth the option?

    I think it's time to talk about the what if's with Dupree based on what he does for the rest of the year....not make a definitive decision on his future with the team.

    I know there was good reason to doubt him, but I don't agree with what you say about the types of players they need being everywhere. God knows the team has been trying to find talent at the position for years but failed miserably. They aren't that easy to find without emptying the vault. I think they have more talent now at the position than they have had at any time since before they drafted Jarvis Jones. Even Adeniyi and Adams appear to have real talent. At this point, the team can still look to pick up a great player at the position if the opportunity presents itself, but there is no guarantee that a "great" player will sign with the team for a reasonable amount of money. Bell should have taught everyone that this year.

    Dominant pass rushers are about to start making over $20 million a year. That's a huge chunk of the cap. I think the sweet spot is if you can find a way to sign an up and coming player that hasn't reached his full potential yet, or maybe a guy that was playing out of scheme on another team for a good price. Having an OLB that can get you 10 sacks a year for $9.2 mil is a pretty good rate of return, whether anyone wants to believe it or not. It would also leave enough cap room to take care of other positions. There is always value in knowing what you have and what they can do. It's a known quantity.

    All I'm saying is that Dupree is here and he is playing better. The team needs to see how he plays the rest of the year and so do we before any decisions are made.

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    Re: Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt making a huge impact on defens

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    What I am arguing is that if you are a starter at OLB, 4-6 sacks is what you can expect just for showing up. That has little to do with anything, though. How much are you impacting the average play; how often are you disrupting what the offense is trying to do? 90 percent of the time you do that and don't even get a stat for it. That is what separates a good pass rusher from a mediocre one from a bad one; sack totals mean fuck all except to inflate the asking price of your next contract.

    Dupree still hasn't done anything beyond be mediocre at best in that department. Chickillo hasn't done any better, fair enough. That doesn't mean Dupree is any good, or that anyone else will have trouble equaling his mediocre game impact. Sure, you pick a known below-average backup as an example of how difficult it is to find a replacement - how does that work? Everyone else is not going to be inadequate because Chickillo is below-average.

    You want the answer, look no further than Bostic or VW. Neither is an impact player, neither does anything special by themselves. But either one is adequate if surrounded by the right kinds of players; the other players help them be successful. That's all we need at OLB, we have the other impact players for the pass rush. And the asking price for VW or Bostic talent at OLB sure doesn't start at $8-9 million per.

    Those players exist. They are everywhere. It is just a matter of understanding the problem in front of us. And of course giving yourself more than one option. You will have your Chickillos who just aren't up to being a starter and wash out. That's why you have a journeyman FA and a mid/low draft pick. If neither one of those succeeds, then you are either really unlucky or really bad at this. But what is just as bad is locking yourself into a lame situation because you've convinced yourself that $10 million mediocrity is par for the course. That's just nonsense. If you are in a position where that's really an option being seriously considered, then you need to just throw everything out and start over.
    I'm still not sure what you are saying other than "Don't pay Bud Dupree another nickel come hell or high water."

    Where are all these players that you argue exist everywhere that are disruptive 3-4 OLBs? I mean these guys don't exactly grow on trees. That is why they cost so darn much in FA, Chickillo still has a job (I mean we both just argued he was below average), and the Steelers draft 1-2 every year.

    If they were so easy to find, wouldn't ideally Dupree be at least in a rotation and Chickilo off the roster? At the very least you would assume they would've went in to the regular season more than 3 deep at the position.

    Here is the free agent list from last off-season: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2018/all/edge/

    I spent a bit looking at it and I can't seem to find all these effective players that are just laying around the NFL marketplace. All smart-ass remarks aside, there is ONE guy that fits the parameters you have outlined; 3-5 million in salary cap charge and a 2018 production of 6-8 sacks stepping into a starting role: Devon Kennard. One out of many dozen EDGE rushers and easily 2 dozen OLBs.

    That is why I argue the 5th year option is only a bad thing if:

    1. No serious attempt is made to bring in competition.
    2. It leads to a multi-year extension with no team friendly escape clauses each year to guard against the "contract year" break-out phenomena.

    Ideally, Dupree never plays on the 5th year option. They offer him a 4 year deal with say like $12 million up front (buys out his $9 million option + an incentive to sign) and then years 2, 3, and 4 are team friendly one-year options where Dupree has a low cap hit and no dead money. That way if a draft pick or FA pick-up can beat him out, you aren't on the hook for anything that matters.

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