Well, since they draft such crappy players like Dupree and Burns, who cares if we get and extra pick?
Also in case everyone hasn’t noticed it is pretty easy to have cap space this day and age. Teams routinely have 10-30 million in space each offseason.
I believe you have to sign it for it to be counted .....Originally Posted by AtlantaDan
Who knew this thread would become a labor law forum?
CBA says it is the number of times you are designated to be a franchise player, not the number of times you accept the tender pursuant to that designation and play under the tag, that controls the amount of the contract tender.
Steelers are not going to franchise tag Bell again since they want him out after this season and do not want to play chicken and tie up big $$ under their cap by applying the franchise tag again. But this isn't like trying to divine the meaning of the U.S. Constitution - the management and NFLPA reps who drafted this clause of the CBA are around to testify if the NFL and the Steelers want to fight it, which they do not.
Any Club that designates a player as a Franchise Player for the third time shall, on the date the third such designation is made, be deemed to have tendered the player a one year NFL Player Contract for the greater of: (A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) with the highest such average; (B) 120% of the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which the player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year; or (C) 144% of his Prior Year Salary. (By way of example, a kicker desig-nated as a Franchise Player for the third time in the 2014 League Year would have a Required Tender equal to the greater of: (i) the average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for quarterbacks; (ii)120% ofthe average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for kickers; or (iii) 144% of the player’s own 2013 Salary.) If the Club designates the player as a Franchise Player for the third time, the designating Club shall be the only Club with which the player may negotiate or sign a Player Contract. In lieu of designating such a player as a Franchise Player for the third time, any Club may designate such player as a Transition Player.
https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.n...u%201-5-15.pdf
Bell already has been designated twice in 2017 and 2018.
By virtue of his franchise-tag designation, Bell will make $14.5 million this season, assuming he ever signs the tender.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/03/leveon-bell-has-yet-to-report-as-steelers-running-back-continues-holdout-on-labor-day/?utm_term=.bd5833c68aa2
its like having the winning numbers on a lotto card you filled out but you never handed it to the cashier to purchase the ticket
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
I don’t really doubt you on this.Who knew this thread would become a labor law forum?
CBA says it is the number of times you are designated to be a franchise player, not the number of times you accept the tender pursuant to that designation and play under the tag, that controls the amount of the contract tender.
Steelers are not going to franchise tag Bell again since they want him out after this season and do not want to play chicken and tie up big $$ under their cap by applying the franchise tag again. But this isn't like trying to divine the meaning of the U.S. Constitution - the management and NFLPA reps who drafted this clause of the CBA are around to testify if the NFL and the Steelers want to fight it, which they do not.
Any Club that designates a player as a Franchise Player for the third time shall, on the date the third such designation is made, be deemed to have tendered the player a one year NFL Player Contract for the greater of: (A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) with the highest such average; (B) 120% of the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which the player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year; or (C) 144% of his Prior Year Salary. (By way of example, a kicker desig-nated as a Franchise Player for the third time in the 2014 League Year would have a Required Tender equal to the greater of: (i) the average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for quarterbacks; (ii)120% ofthe average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for kickers; or (iii) 144% of the player’s own 2013 Salary.) If the Club designates the player as a Franchise Player for the third time, the designating Club shall be the only Club with which the player may negotiate or sign a Player Contract. In lieu of designating such a player as a Franchise Player for the third time, any Club may designate such player as a Transition Player.
https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.n...u%201-5-15.pdf
Bell already has been designated twice in 2017 and 2018.
By virtue of his franchise-tag designation, Bell will make $14.5 million this season, assuming he ever signs the tender.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/03/leveon-bell-has-yet-to-report-as-steelers-running-back-continues-holdout-on-labor-day/?utm_term=.bd5833c68aa2
But if this is true, why would there ever have been any question that he would not report this year. As soon as he decided to sit out the first few weeks because he valued his safety over the $900,000 or so he was giving up on any given week, why in the hell would that change on some magical deadline that didn’t really exist.
If anything, he is MORE right to sit out the rest of the season with every week that passes. If he has no financial incentive to accrue a season then why the hell would he be more likely to report now than he was on ANY previous week?
Earlier in the season, why was EVERYONE talking about how important it was for him to accrue the season when it was virtually meaningless?
Why has the narrative somehow changed than the terms we were told about at the beginning of his hold out?
If safety is worth more than $900,000 a week than how would ANYONE think that’s LESS true now than it was on week 1 through 10?
There is no internal logic to that. Of course Bell will sit out the rest of the season at this point. His safety from injury becomes MORE valuable with every week closer to free agency, not less.
IIRC, nobody realized that the franchise tag counts for this season even though L Bell never signed it until some sports reporter pointed that fact out last week. Maybe the Steelers FO knew it, maybe not. Maybe Bell knew it, maybe not. Neither side talked about it.
So that fact changes the whole narrative now that the reporters know it.
Steelers FO wrote him off early in the season, which suggests that they knew all along. Bell showing up when he did may be just him playing games hoping that the Steelers FO didn't know about the loophole, or maybe he didn't know himself until the story broke. Possibly neither side knew.
"You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
Because it is assumed players are not into deferred gratification and would never sit out an entire season in a contract dispute. Last, and probably only, Steeler to do it was Mike Merriweather in 1988
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
Everyone knew who gets paid to know - Adam Schefter tweeted this Thursday night
It is first year contract law principles and AJRII took that course, as did the Steelers outside counsel
It was not well reported until recently because sportswriters are not known to specialize in labor law
The sports media guy who got on to it was Mike Florio at PFT, who made his living as a labor lawyer before he hit the jackpot with PFT
If it’s true and neither side knew until now, people on both sides should be immediately fired.
ESPECIALLY Bell’s agent, because if this is true, Bell had WAY more leverage back when they were negotiating. Bell’s agent could have said back then that Bell would never play for the Steelers this year without a long term deal that he found acceptable.
There should have been NO question Bell would either get his deal or preserve his body until free agency. If Bell was willing to forego $14,000,000 for a guaranteed contract of way more in 2019, he could have said so and NOT BEEN BLUFFING because it’s obviously true. Bell could have changed the whole narrative back then and would have either gotten the deal he wanted, or been able to rightly claim that the Steelers made their choice back then to not have him for 2018.
Some people would have still hated Bell for making that ultimatum, but he’d have at least been honest and respected for not bluffing:
The Steelers just happened to get really lucky that Conner turned out to be a stud. But if they did their dealmaking back then without knowing the actual rules and that Bell had no incentive to accrue a season, it doesn’t matter that it turned out for the best, someone still failed to do his job of knowing all the variables.
But Bell didn’t need to assume anything false. He knows what he values most, and could have used it WAY to his advantage.
If Bell’s agent knew that Bell had this card to play, why NOT scream it out to every sportswriter back then?
There was NO downside for Bell’s team not to make this widely known. They should have said that the Steelers were choosing to take that risk by not making a deal with Bell.
Then if Bell DID decide to show up anyway for the money, then fine. But it would have served him far better to announce that he probably wouldn’t.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that neither side knew. *Maybe* both sides knew. *Maybe* only one side knew. *Maybe* neither side knew. The important thing is that neither side said it, so the media didn't know and we didn't either. Thus, this 'deadline' seemed much more important to us than it actually was.
"You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland
And if this is the clear and ONLY POSSIBLE interpretation of the CBA, then labor law doesn’t play into it at all. There is no LAW to be referenced. It is a private contract between the NFLPA and the owners. There is no U.S. state or federal law involved. Except the law that says contracts between private actors are legally binding. But it takes no expert in labor law to understand that.
Labor law only comes into play if the wording of the CBA ITSELF violates some labor law. Then the State can step in and override the CBA as written. Otherwise it’s just a matter of reading a contract and following its terms.
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Okay, then Bell’s agent should be fired whether he knew or not.
If he didn’t know, he should obviously be fired.
If he knew and didn’t use it to his advantage by SCREAMING IT LOUD AND CLEAR to the press, then he should be fired even harder.
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
Adam Schefter said the agent went on ESPN NFL Live and said it last summer - that is a pretty loud scream
The Steelers properly assumed Bell would not sit out an entire season - no player hit under the franchise tag has ever done it
They wanted one more year out of him and thought they would get it
Umm Bell and his camp have been saying some version of this for over a year. Just because sports pundits were too dumb to understand or talk about it doesnt mean its not new or unexpected.
I don't think you'll find anyone around here who will dispute that.
"You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland
It just seems very strange that there was ever a false narrative. If the agent knew and announced that this was Bell’s negotiating position, it should have been clear to everyone that accruing a season meant NOTHING.
No one in the press needs to understand labor law one bit to read a rule book, which is all the CBA is.
It’s fine if everyone had known the rules and just assumed Bell would show up because he wanted the money. But it makes no sense that everyone was claiming that THIS deadline meant anything other than once it passes, Bell can’t play in 2018.
But why was everyone saying, up until recently, that the Steelers could tag Bell again at $14 mil if he doesn’t accrue this season?
Nobody read the rule book until now? Bell’s agent was screaming it and nobody believed him?
This makes absolutely no sense UNLESS it is NOT clear that the CBA means what you claim it means. This only makes sense if your claim (and Florio’s) is a NOVEL, but perhaps plausible INTERPRETATION of the CBA.
If it was simply an uncontroversial and obvious rule in the rule book, it seems crazy that no one in the press read the rule book until now.
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I knew someone was gonna say that.I don't think you'll find anyone around here who will dispute that.
I just meant... here’s a NEW reason Bell’s agent should be fired.
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
Who is “everyone”?
IMO the focus was on when Bell would report this season and that the possibility of the Steelers applying the franchise tag on Bell for a third year was never taken seriously.
Taking the infotainment NFL coverage seriously burns us all at some point
It still seems like a REALLY weird thing for the pundits to have any reason to get wrong if the rule is clear and universally accepted. It only makes sense if this is a novel interpretation by Bell’s camp.
And if Bell’s camp has been making this claim since day 1, why ever misplay your hand by saying Bell would play in 2018 without a long term deal?
This hold out was not a game of chicken. The game of chicken should have been played when negotiations were possible. If Bell’s team had the rulebook on their side, they NEVER should have claimed that Bell would play in 2018 without a deal that he accepted.
Bell could then always change his mind and show up for the money.
Anyway, the whole thing seems like it was mishandled by Bell’s team every step of the way.
Hollywood,
Okay, but hear me out... #1 assume that the press is lazy and particularly stupid. They won't bother to learn unless somebody actually tells them. Not a far stretch.
#2 assume that neither side knows if the other side knows or not. It's the classic "prisoners dilemma" game theory position. You could maximize your personal position by blabbing, but you see the risk of the other side's awareness as a net negative, so you keep the info to yourself. The advantage of each side is maximized (by their own perception) if they know themselves, but the other side doesn't.
End result: both sides know but neither side tells, resulting in a net loss for both sides.
A lawyer will never give his opponent a freebie, so that's how this sort of thing happens. The press wasn't aware until recently, so we weren't aware either. *Maybe* one or both sides weren't aware... but now all of us are. So this 'deadline' has suddenly become unimportant.
"You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland
I guess so.Who is “everyone”?
IMO the focus was on when Bell would report this season and that the possibility of the Steelers applying the franchise tag on Bell for a third year was never taken seriously.
Taking the infotainment NFL coverage seriously burns us all at some point
But by everyone, I guess I mean everyone on this site. And obviously the people on this site only have media sources to rely on for information.
It seemed like the only reason why ANYONE would assume Bell might show up AT ALL (once he made it clear that on any given week his safety was worth more than $900,000) was because he had some deterrent to missing the last few weeks of the season that didn’t exist in the first few weeks of the season.
If not, OF COURSE he’ll miss the whole season. He has already established his risk/reward calculus. There’s no reason for that to suddenly change now, at this arbitrary time, unless this time IS NOT arbitrary.
I understand what you are saying in theory.
From the Steelers side, perhaps The strategy of knowing and not saying anything makes sense.
But in this particular case, I see no advantage gained by Bell’s side by not using the information as LEVERAGE back when the negotiations were happening.
If I’m missing a reason for keeping this info under their hats, then please tell me.
It’s information that HELPS Bell if the other side realizes that Bell has the extra card to play. If the Steelers falsely assume they have the leverage of retaggging Bell at 14 mil if Bell sits out the season, that only hurts Bell’s negotiationing position.
They wanted the best long term deal out of the Steelers. Perhaps the Steelers would have offered more at the time if they didn’t falsely assume they had Bell over this barrel; that he HAD to report by a certain date or risk getting tagged again at the same amount.
You see what I’m saying. Bell’s side had a negotiating card to play that they stupidly never played... and if they did play it, they should have informed the press that they played it, so that Bell wouldn’t look like a liar and a fool for not showing up.
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
I was wrong on this. From Albert Breer in his MMQB column this morning
We’re less than 48 hours from the deadline for Le’Veon Bell to report to the Steelers, and we’re going to look how we got to this point—where a star could sit out an entire season on the franchise tag for the first time since Sean Gilbert did it 21 years ago.
Breer then observes
But it’s tough to make money at running back, and all you have do is look at the guy running the ball right now for Pittsburgh to figure out why. James Conner was a fourth-round pick in a draft in which Kansas City’s Kareem Hunt and New Orleans’ Alvin Kamara went in the third round.
It’s not that Bell isn’t a great player. He most certainly is one. It’s that it’s too easy to find someone else to do his job.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/12/we...rs-leveon-bell
Array title="cold-hard-steel has a brilliant future">
I don't believe i'm even talking about Bell because i have basically written him off. But all the crap i have read about his showing up.....no he is not showing up,he has done the exact opposite of whatever was being reported.So all that being said the latest is he is not showing up,which tells me he will in fact show up.........if he sticks with what is being reported on out there in NFL circles. Frankly i'm with Tomlin on this one......i'm only concerned about those men that are with the team now.
Two bags are guarenteed to fit all sizes ,or your money back. If you are not completely satisfied call 1-800-GOO-DHELL We show 5 bags to choose from,most problems only need 2 bags
.
AD,
I can only speculate on that one. Perhaps they were hoping for the Steelers to tank before announcing it. Perhaps Bakari knew and witheld the fact from Bell in order to force a 3rd tag. Perhaps Bakari didn't know or wasn't certain. Perhaps Bakari and/ or Bell are just dipshits.
But yeah, on their side there was no reason to keep that loophole to themselves. Therefore they either didn't know about it or mistakenly thought it was in their best interest to not divulge it. Either way, it's like you said; Bakari deserves to be fired.
"You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
Bakari did not keep it to himselfAD,
I can only speculate on that one. Perhaps they were hoping for the Steelers to tank before announcing it. Perhaps Bakari knew and witheld the fact from Bell in order to force a 3rd tag. Perhaps Bakari didn't know or wasn't certain. Perhaps Bakari and/ or Bell are just dipshits.
But yeah, on their side there was no reason to keep that loophole to themselves. Therefore they either didn't know about it or mistakenly thought it was in their best interest to not divulge it. Either way, it's like you said; Bakari deserves to be fired.
Bakari went on ESPN Live this past July 17. When asked why this probably would be Bell's last season with the Steelers, starting around the 20:30 mark of the linked audio, Bakari said the value of the franchise tender when a player is franchise tagged for the third time is based upon salaries for the top 5 highest paid quarterbacks
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/esp...ive/e/55370047
No surprise Ian Rapoport has contributed to the confusion on this point by tweeting this clearly false statement last week
Anybody see Coach Cowher on the pregame yesterday? Bill said :
" The Steelers will use the 2 week roster exemption or the transition tag on LeVeon Bell. One thing Mr. Rooney always used to say was that you don't reward players for not showing up."
So they have probably told Bell's agent to get ready for roster exemption, to which he is likely to stand firm based upon his ego and not show up this week. Then, forget the franchise tag because its too expensive, the Steelers will likely use the transition tag so they can keep lines of communication open and not just let Bell walk freely to free agency, but instead have the right to match any offer he receives.
Even if we could tag Bell in 2019 for second-year tag money again, I wouldn't do it. While I would love to rub it in just out of spite against Bell, we have Conner now and don't need Bell anymore. We can spend those $14 million on players we really need, players that will help us win a Lombardi. Ben probably is retired in less than 5 years, so our window to win it all is closing fast. And I am certain that with $14 million in a defensive player that puts us in a way better position than spend it on Bell.
And when all said and done, it all comes down to whether you win the Super Bowl.
I don't see us using any kind of tag on Bell, because the transition tag also means no comp pick. If we were to use a tag it would be the non-exclusive franchise tag, but then the danger is that Bell might sign it, which would cost us a fortune better spent on other players. So I think at this point it's better if we let him go.
I can't believe I'm going to say this but, I'm glad Bell is going to sit out this season. The season the Conner has and, yes James has done everything anyone could ask & more. I know the Bell thing was all about the money but, buyer beware you have to wonder about Bell's desire to play football. I know he does deserve a nice contract because, he is real good football play one of the best all round backs. I say the heck with him.
Bell is done. He will be a free agent but the Steelers will put the transition tag on him so they can match (which they won't). They will get a pick for him leaving.
$14 million buys you two VERY good defensive guys and a solid backup RB (think older guy like Frank Gore) to sit behind and spell Connor.
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
Ray Fittipaldo of the P-G sums up his view of the Bell end game
The franchise tag for a third year in a row would be the third-year tag, which is the QB money tag. So obviously, the Steelers don't value him at $25 million for one season. They won't use that, but they could use the transition tag if they're so inclined. I doubt it, but it would make much more sense than the third-year franchise tag....
The relationship appears to be beyond repair. Plus, if some team offers him $70 million guaranteed over four years the Steelers wouldn't match it and wouldn't get a compensatory pick.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201811120078
$14 million does not get you 2 very good defenders and a back-up RB.
$14 million gets you Morris Claiborne, Daquan Jones, and Doug Martin.
All of those can help a team, but they are not changing your outlook.
$14 million is not a ton of cap space when you are talking about bringing in a FA that can "change" the outlook of a unit on a football team. In today's market where multiple teams have tens of millions in cap space every year, a CB or pass rusher that would really change the Steelers defense is going to cost that $14 million plus another 1-4 million in annual salary PLUS a big fat old signing bonus.
That would make this new player the highest paid member of the defense. Typically the Steelers don't do that and make the "leaders" of their defense paid less than an outsider. So Heyward, Tuitt, and Haden set the salary scale on the Steelers defense. Looking at the list of scheduled FA's, I see ONE guy that the Steelers may be willing to wreck that structure for: Jadeveon Clowney. In equaling their 10-12 million value, MAYBE Dee Ford.
There is no impact starter coming in FA for the defense. The best use of that cap space is to either extend existing guys or make a trade for a guy one year away from FA that the present team doesn't think they can resign. Then throw that cap space at them a year early. Say make the Jags a monster offer for a disgruntled Jalen Ramsey. Or maybe Miami is worried that they won't be able to resign Xavien Howard.
This is the list of 2020 FA's -- https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-age...0/all/defense/ -- some interesting names. Target a year early, throw a 3rd rounder+ at their current team and hope this cap money enables you to poach a guy that another team is worried about resigning.
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