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Thread: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

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    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

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    Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    The 2004 NFL Draft will be known primarily as the draft that produced three Pro Bowl, and future Hall of Fame, quarterbacks.

    Eli Manning went first overall to the Chargers. Philip Rivers went fourth to the Giants. And Ben Roethlisberger went eleventh overall to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

    We all know the story by now of how Manning refused to play for the Chargers, forcing his way to the Giants via trade. Rivers landed on the West Coast while Manning ended up in the Big Apple.

    Since that time, Manning and Roethlisberger have both won two Super Bowls, while Rivers has only gotten as far as the AFC Championship Game (2007).

    It’s easy to say that Manning and Roethlisberger are the best quarterbacks from that class, but this stat may prove that overall, Rivers has been the better quarterback, despite no Super Bowl wins.

    For his career, Roethlisberger has thrown for 30 or more touchdowns just twice, despite having receivers named Antonio Brown and Hines Ward. Manning has thrown for 30 or more touchdowns three times, while Rivers has done it five times. Yes, five times.

    read more

    https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2...oethlisberger/

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Oh buzz off. He had the all-time leader in TD receptions among TEs in Gates and a top-10 all-time RB in LT and still didn't make it in. Great QB, but not better than Ben

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Oh buzz off. He had the all-time leader in TD receptions among TEs in Gates and a top-10 all-time RB in LT and still didn't make it in. Great QB, but not better than Ben
    And the chargers have make the playoffs only once since 2010....And it was because of a miss of the Chiefs kicker and also that the Dolphins and the Ravens had loss their last 2 games of the year in 2013.

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    And the chargers have make the playoffs only once since 2010....And it was because of a miss of the Chiefs kicker and also that the Dolphins and the Ravens had loss their last 2 games of the year in 2013.
    Without Tomlinson that team regressed, even when Rivers still had Gates to throw to

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Without Tomlinson that team regressed, even when Rivers still had Gates to throw to
    Also only 3 season with 10 or more wins under Rivers for the Chargers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It's not just his fault of course, but still ....

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    The article is click bait

    Making the playoffs takes a team but FWIW for such a great QB Rivers has not seen the playoffs since 2013

    But I will concede Rivers might be better QB on someone's fantasy team to pile up stats

    OTOH if you want a QB to win the game in the 4th quarter

    Ben Roethlisberger - 33 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 44 Game-Winning Drives
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...layer=RoetBe00

    Philip Rivers - 25 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 29 Game-Winning Drives
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...layer=RivePh00

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Ask yourselves this: How would Rivers do on your team?

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    Ask yourselves this: How would Rivers do on your team?
    I don't know - he might not be a bad/cold weather QB. Playing at home in great weather certainly does not hurt the stats.

    Maybe Ben would have more passing TDs if he had played on Rivers teams and Rivers played in Pittsburgh. In that case the author of the article appears to contend, assuming he is not just trolling for clicks, that would make Ben the better QB.

    Rivers is a very good QB but I have consistently been hearing about the wonder that is Philip Rivers since Cowher wanted to draft him. Over fourteen seasons later he still has not won anything of significance and having more TD passes than Ben or Eli does not prove to me he is the best QB of the three.

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    I don't know - he might not be a bad/cold weather QB. Playing at home in great weather certainly does not hurt the stats.

    Maybe Ben would have more passing TDs if he had played on Rivers teams and Rivers played in Pittsburgh. In that case the author of the article appears to contend, assuming he is not just trolling for clicks, that would make Ben the better QB.

    Rivers is a very good QB but I have consistently been hearing about the wonder that is Philip Rivers since Cowher wanted to draft him. Over fourteen seasons later he still has not won anything of significance and having more TD passes than Ben or Eli does not prove to me he is the best QB of the three.
    Exactly having more touchdowns doesn't really mean squat. Being clutch on the other hand does and Ben has proven time and again how he can turn up his game when things are not going his way. I also look at the O-line that Ben had when he 1st came into the league and in my heart of hearts do not think Rivers would have flourished behind that line the way Ben did. It is impossible to say what would happen if we had gotten Rivers instead of Ben but certainly being clutch is more important that passing TDs or even yards.

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Exactly having more touchdowns doesn't really mean squat. Being clutch on the other hand does and Ben has proven time and again how he can turn up his game when things are not going his way. I also look at the O-line that Ben had when he 1st came into the league and in my heart of hearts do not think Rivers would have flourished behind that line the way Ben did. It is impossible to say what would happen if we had gotten Rivers instead of Ben but certainly being clutch is more important that passing TDs or even yards.
    For the TD an yards....We must not forget that during almost the entire Roethlisberger tenure the defense of the Ravens was elite, same for the Bengals in the last 10 years ...

    In the AFC West, the Broncos, Chiefs and the Raiders have been often in the bottom 10 on defense since 2006, except for a few years for the Broncos under Wade Phillips ....

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    The 2004 NFL Draft will be known primarily as the draft that produced three Pro Bowl, and future Hall of Fame, quarterbacks.

    Eli Manning went first overall to the Chargers. Philip Rivers went fourth to the Giants. And Ben Roethlisberger went eleventh overall to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

    We all know the story by now of how Manning refused to play for the Chargers, forcing his way to the Giants via trade. Rivers landed on the West Coast while Manning ended up in the Big Apple.

    Since that time, Manning and Roethlisberger have both won two Super Bowls, while Rivers has only gotten as far as the AFC Championship Game (2007).

    It’s easy to say that Manning and Roethlisberger are the best quarterbacks from that class, but this stat may prove that overall, Rivers has been the better quarterback, despite no Super Bowl wins.

    For his career, Roethlisberger has thrown for 30 or more touchdowns just twice, despite having receivers named Antonio Brown and Hines Ward. Manning has thrown for 30 or more touchdowns three times, while Rivers has done it five times. Yes, five times.

    read more

    https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2...oethlisberger/
    If you review their career stats they are almost identical in virtually every category. Eerily similar.

    However there are four notable differences in that Ben:

    1. Was sacked 100 more times!
    2. Had a LOT more wins
    3. Had a lot more 4th quarter comebacks
    4. Had 3 Superbowl appearnace and 2 wins.

    My knee-jerk thoughts are:

    1. Ben is a better QB, especially in the clutch.

    2. Ben played behind a TERRIBLE line which could account for his high career sack total and which also very likely dragged down his numbers in all categories.

    I would have to go back to look at the year by year to confirm this.
    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    I don't know - he might not be a bad/cold weather QB. Playing at home in great weather certainly does not hurt the stats.

    Maybe Ben would have more passing TDs if he had played on Rivers teams and Rivers played in Pittsburgh. In that case the author of the article appears to contend, assuming he is not just trolling for clicks, that would make Ben the better QB.

    Rivers is a very good QB but I have consistently been hearing about the wonder that is Philip Rivers since Cowher wanted to draft him. Over fourteen seasons later he still has not won anything of significance and having more TD passes than Ben or Eli does not prove to me he is the best QB of the three.
    I agree. I wasn't trying to be a dick... it just read that way...lol. I was just wondering what you all think Rivers would have done over his career if he were with the Steelers instead of the Chargers. I think Ben is the better QB over the years.

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    I agree. I wasn't trying to be a dick... it just read that way...lol. I was just wondering what you all think Rivers would have done over his career if he were with the Steelers instead of the Chargers. I think Ben is the better QB over the years.
    No worries

    I am not in denial that Ben's best years in terms of getting to Super Bowls had a lot to do with having a great defense and that Rivers probably would have done well with those teams as well (while handing off more as Rivers did when his teams had their best seasons with prime Tomlinson)

    And FWIW I bet the Chargers preseason as one of my two longshots to win the Super Bowl (because I liked the risk/reward of the potential payoff) at 21-1. Of course my other longshot wager was the Falcons at 17-1.

    But I just think TD passes often are a garbage time stat because the QB has to throw rather than it being 2007 Patriots level dominance - Rivers best TD passes season and Chargers record

    2008 - 34 8-8
    2010 - 30 9-7
    2013 - 32 9-7
    2014 - 31 9-7
    2016 - 33 5-11

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...R/RivePh00.htm

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    No worries

    I am not in denial that Ben's best years in terms of getting to Super Bowls had a lot to do with having a great defense and that Rivers probably would have done well with those teams as well (while handing off more as Rivers did when his teams had their best seasons with prime Tomlinson)

    And FWIW I bet the Chargers preseason as one of my two longshots to win the Super Bowl (because I liked the risk/reward of the potential payoff) at 21-1. Of course my other longshot wager was the Falcons at 17-1.

    But I just think TD passes often are a garbage time stat because the QB has to throw rather than it being 2007 Patriots level dominance - Rivers best TD passes season and Chargers record

    2008 - 34 8-8
    2010 - 30 9-7
    2013 - 32 9-7
    2014 - 31 9-7
    2016 - 33 5-11

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...R/RivePh00.htm
    Blake Bortles had 35 TD pass in 2015 with a 5-11 Jaguars team but a lot of his TD was in garbage time.

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?
    Umm. No to Ben and even no to Eli until Rivers wins something.

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    read more
    No thanks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    Ask yourselves this: How would Rivers do on your team?
    How would the Chargers have done if they kept with Brees?

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post

    How would the Chargers have done if they kept with Brees?

    The Chargers would have won the super bowl in 2006 and Marty Schottenheimer would probably have been in the HOF.

    Of course Schottenheimer would have stayed longer after that and the chargers would probably have been good more longer, since the drafts of A.J Smith without Marty Schottenheimer were garbage.

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Yes for Manning and close on Ben. Rivers is a really good QB. I’m not sure if you stuck him on the Steelers in place of Ben that he would’ve been able to survive the drubbing that Ben took over the years though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Not only is Rivers not better than those two, he is much worse than the Chargers previous QB, a guy named Drew Brees.
    All Defense!

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Brees doesn't get the credit he deserves. Brees > Manning IMO.

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?


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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    1. Ben
    2. Rivers
    3. Eli (want to talk about a qb blessed with incredible luck....it’s him)

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrancoLambert View Post
    1. Ben
    2. Rivers
    3. Eli (want to talk about a qb blessed with incredible luck....it’s him)
    Eli is the Jim Plunkett of the 21st century - two rings and a career record around .500 with a lot of mediocrity

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...P/PlunJi00.htm

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Eli is the Jim Plunkett of the 21st century - two rings and a career record around .500 with a lot of mediocrity

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...P/PlunJi00.htm
    But Plunkett is not in the HOF ..... Is Eli Manning will be in the HOF?

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Eli will get into the Hall of Fame. He’s got the stats and two Super Bowl Rings and he led the team that stopped the Patriots from having an undefeated season. He’s a Manning and played in Nee York. All that combined will add up to the Hall of Fame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    But Plunkett is not in the HOF ..... Is Eli Manning will be in the HOF?
    Jim Plunkett did not play his entire career in the largest media market in the country.

    Eli should not be in Canton but has a good shot, just as Namath built a HOF career on a few great seasons and one epic Super Bowl upset

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    But Plunkett is not in the HOF ..... Is Eli Manning will be in the HOF?
    IMO he shouldn’t get in on merit but he probably will.
    Beating the Lords of the League carries more weight than it should.

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    If Namath is in, then Eli will get in. 2 game winning Super Bowl drives against the Cheats plus top 10 all time in passing yards and TDs, the HOF committee will get him in

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    If Namath is in, then Eli will get in. 2 game winning Super Bowl drives against the Cheats plus top 10 all time in passing yards and TDs, the HOF committee will get him in
    Not only that but if Ben and Eli were eligible at the same time, Eli would probably get in before Ben.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    I still would rather have Ben at the helm with the game on the line and, no doubt this year Rivers is off to a great start. Like many of mentioned very few qb's would have survived the beating as Ben has taken. I'll say it again when Ben does retire there will be people finally saying man what a great QB Ben was damn we miss him!!!

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    Re: Is Philip Rivers better than both Eli Manning & Ben Roethlisberger?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Not only that but if Ben and Eli were eligible at the same time, Eli would probably get in before Ben.
    Wouldn't surprise me given that ben has been disrespected much of his career. Ben certainly will likely wait a year or 2 more than he deserves to

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