What's the deal with Artie Burns, anyway?

[GBMelBlount]

I almost feel like we should just draft offense early and keep it loaded and acquire our defense through FA.

Depressing.

[Mojouw]

I think that this discussion is trending towards the "Artie Burns can't play and everyone involved in his evaluation was an idiot" end of the spectrum.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. After his rookie year, he looked comparable to almost any corner drafted in his class and seemed to hold some of the highest potential due to his inexperience playing football overall.

Last year, he made some improvements but also just didn't improve at some things.

This year, he just seems to have regressed in everything but run support. I see a player that is waaay too far into his own head and just can not seem to play with any instincts - at all.

But the draft pick wasn't such a fundamental misstep as some are making it out. Looking at the rest of his class, there is Ramsey and then a TON of question marks.

Apple was garbage last year and now seems okay across from Jenkins for the Giants.
Hargreaves has not been playing well prior to getting injured.

Jackson looks to be better than any other CB in the class not named Ramsey. With Xavien Howard pushing for 2nd or 3rd. Then you have to take a look at Kendall Fuller. But after that, Burns for all his many problems and total cratering in 2018 is just as good as anyone else in the class.

http://pfref.com/tiny/nZpWl

TLR - Drafting CBs is hard. Few teams are any good at it.

[GBMelBlount]

TLR - Drafting CBs is hard. Few teams are any good at it.

So just grab good ones through free agency which we have an opportunity to do?

[Mojouw]

So just grab good ones through free agency which we have an opportunity to do?

Maybe. But planning on ignoring a weakness and then just expecting the FA market to provide is not a great idea. But then again, what the heck do I know?

[GBMelBlount]

Maybe. But planning on ignoring a weakness and then just expecting the FA market to provide is not a great idea. But then again, what the heck do I know?

Truly enjoy your posts and insights Mojo.

I guess my point was just that with the high risk at certain positions perhaps you just do not take the risk and draft the more sure payoff picks in the early rounds?

Let somebody else take the high risks and pay for the winners.

[Mojouw]

Truly enjoy your posts and insights Mojo.

I guess my point was just that with the high risk at certain positions perhaps you just do not take the risk draft the more sure payoff picks in the early rounds?

Let somebody else take the high risks and pay for the winners.

That might work. In fact, I suspect we could use the smoking wreckage of DB draft picks in NE but their totally functional secondary built through the FA market on an almost annual basis as direct proof of your idea.

In fact, your almost certainly on to something here! Maybe just draft pass rushers and lineman and buy everything else?

[GBMelBlount]

That might work. In fact, I suspect we could use the smoking wreckage of DB draft picks in NE but their totally functional secondary built through the FA market on an almost annual basis as direct proof of your idea.

In fact, your almost certainly on to something here! Maybe just draft pass rushers and lineman and buy everything else?

LOL.

I get your point.

Although some would argue it all starts in the trenches.

I would imagine there is an actuarial science to this and those who employ it to some degree will fare better than those who don't, all other things being equal.

Perhaps not tripping over oneself with glee and urgency when picking the 8th or 10th rated cornerback in the first round is a good start?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

TLR - Drafting CBs is hard. Few teams are any good at it.

I think you take the strategy of drafting good DB's instead of rolling the dice that somebody could be "great", or has "potential upside".

Lots of guys over the years that I liked, who were not gonna be first round picks, but could help a secondary or were worth the value. Guys like Kurt Coleman from Ohio St, Jordan Poyer from Oregon St, were later rounders that the Steelers could have used, but took other guys that didn't work out. Steven Nelson was another Oregon St guy that was mid round who is a good slot CB, while Eric Murray from Minnesota was a big zone corner that ended up moving to Safety... and Fuller or Alexander were good DB's that could have played bigger roles than Burns IMO. I think Sutton was a good pick and one that will work out.

The issue is that the Steelers reached for Burns, when he really was more hype than substance. If you cant get a guy in the top 25 with good skills and production, then get good secondary players in the mid rounds like DeShea Townsend in the 4th, Keenan Lewis in the 3rd, Jason Simmons in the 5th, or shoot for some late round projects like Ike Taylor was in the 5th I think.

Burns just looked so bad to me on tape, games, and his combine workout looked anything but smooth.

- - - Updated - - -

LOL.

I get your point.

Although some would argue it all starts in the trenches.



Perhaps not tripping over oneself with glee and urgency when picking the 8th or 10th rated cornerback in the first round is a good start?

I'm that guy that says it all starts up front in the trenches.

I also thought the Steelers reached for the 8th best CB in Bryant McFadden, but it kind of worked out.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I remember someone on here awhile back saying he sucks and sees no potential in him!

[GBMelBlount]

I think you take the strategy of drafting good DB's instead of rolling the dice that somebody could be "great", or has "potential upside".

Lots of guys over the years that I liked, who were not gonna be first round picks, but could help a secondary or were worth the value. Guys like Kurt Coleman from Ohio St, Jordan Poyer from Oregon St, were later rounders that the Steelers could have used, but took other guys that didn't work out. Steven Nelson was another Oregon St guy that was mid round who is a good slot CB, while Eric Murray from Minnesota was a big zone corner that ended up moving to Safety... and Fuller or Alexander were good DB's that could have played bigger roles than Burns IMO. I think Sutton was a good pick and one that will work out.

The issue is that the Steelers reached for Burns, when he really was more hype than substance. If you cant get a guy in the top 25 with good skills and production, then get good secondary players in the mid rounds like DeShea Townsend in the 4th, Keenan Lewis in the 3rd, Jason Simmons in the 5th, or shoot for some late round projects like Ike Taylor was in the 5th I think.

Burns just looked so bad to me on tape, games, and his combine workout looked anything but smooth.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm that guy that says it all starts up front in the trenches.

I also thought the Steelers reached for the 8th best CB in Bryant McFadden, but it kind of worked out.

Agree & point taken!

It would also be nice if we picked up McFadden's cousin, Patrick Peterson.

[Hawkman]

Agree & point taken!

It would also be nice if we picked up McFadden's cousin, Patrick Peterson.

I see what you did there.

[Steeldude]

I remember someone on here awhile back saying he sucks and sees no potential in him!

More than one.

It was a horrible pick. A total reach.

I wonder how many on here will be clamoring for the Steelers to exercise the 5th year option on Burns.

[polamalubeast]

[Steelerchad]

I've never seen a last name more fitting for a corner back.

[Steeldude]

Burns is worse. At least Blake didn't refuse to tackle.

[Neversatisfied]

The last 10 years 1st round Defensive draft picks have been hit and miss for the Steelers

2009- Hood
2011- Hayward
2013- Jones
2014- Shazier
2015- Dupree
2016- Burns
2017- Watt
2018- Edmunds

[polamalubeast]

[DesertSteel]

The last 10 years 1st round Defensive draft picks have been hit and miss for the Steelers

2009- Hood
2011- Hayward
2013- Jones
2014- Shazier
2015- Dupree
2016- Burns
2017- Watt
2018- Edmunds

Worst first...
1. Jones
2. Burns
3. Hood
4. Dupree

[Edman]

Coaching has been Subpar for the Defensive backfield since as long I can remember. Even Sean Davis regressed.

Artie Burns was fine in 2016, regressed in 2017, and is even worse in 2018. You don't come into the league and regress after a rookie season if not for bad coaching.

Just goes to show how important coaching is in the grand scheme of things. Burns sucks now, but the coaching has been even worse.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Worst first...
1. Jones
2. Burns
3. Hood
4. Dupree

I don't think Hood was as bad as fans try and make him out to be. The guy has played a decade of interior line in the NFL and was strong at the point of attack. Its not like he was out of the NFL and non productive like Jarvis Jones.

That being said, I think Blake was worse than Burns as he was always gonna give up receptions, cushion and yardage on a consistent basis. Burns is more of a guy that likes to give up big plays due to dumb mistakes. A 5th round talent drafted in the 1st because of size and speed.

[pczach]

I don't think Hood was as bad as fans try and make him out to be. The guy has played a decade of interior line in the NFL and was strong at the point of attack. Its not like he was out of the NFL and non productive like Jarvis Jones.

That being said, I think Blake was worse than Burns as he was always gonna give up receptions, cushion and yardage on a consistent basis. Burns is more of a guy that likes to give up big plays due to dumb mistakes. A 5th round talent drafted in the 1st because of size and speed.

Hood wasn't that bad. He was played in a scheme that didn't fit him. He was a 4-3 DT in college. Steelers drafted him and projected him to play DE in a 3-4. That's on the team. I'm not going to destroy the player for not being able to physically handle the position he had never played before. He trained his ass off and he played hard.

Hood was just signed by the Dolphins a couple days ago. You can't last this long in the NFL if you are complete garbage. He has also played significant snaps in his career. He hasn't just sat on the bench or been inactive for games for his whole career. The guy is a legit NFL player....just not for the Steelers in the scheme they played at the time.

[Mojouw]

Burns needs to be in a press man scheme. He plays zone now and is too dumb for it.

They thought a combination of coaching band work by Burns could get him up to speed on playing zone at the NFL level. It hasn't yet.

[LambertsLunatic58]

Sorry, but I think it's time to move on and let him find his life's work. It's seems pretty obvious from that he can't cut it. He's not the next coming of Polamolu and just "needs to grasp it". Nope, he reminds me of a less talented Ike Taylor. Seems like one of the problems that really plagues this front office/organization, is admitting they made mistakes after drafting people who just aren't cutting it.

[teegre]

Burns was okay in year one, pretty good in year two, and crappy right now. He has taken his benching well, which is a good sign. I’m hoping for a breakout season in 2019... circa Ike Taylor in 2007.

[st33lersguy]

Oh come on that's a stretch. Burns is bad, but Burntwon would get burned by a 5 year-old girl. He couldn't cover an ant if he sat on it. I mean you cannot adequately describe with words how pathetic he was. I still have absolutely no idea what the hell Tomlin was running through Tomlin's head to have him keep that clown in the lineup the entire year.

[43Hitman]

Burns was okay in year one, pretty good in year two, and crappy right now. He has taken his benching well, which is a good sign. I’m hoping for a breakout season in 2019... circa Ike Taylor in 2007.

The way I look at is that he is having his sophomore slump this year instead of last. We might as well hang with the guy because it's not like the Steelers are gonna give up on him anytime soon. Unless he just totally devolves into a player that can no longer play in the NFL.

[Shoes]

He's a grabber, hot head and dumber than a pile of rocks. Cortez Allen will be by to pick him up on the river barge.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Burns needs to be in a press man scheme. He plays zone now and is too dumb for it.

They thought a combination of coaching band work by Burns could get him up to speed on playing zone at the NFL level. It hasn't yet.

Burns would be a penalty machine in press man. He doesn't have the technique to jam anybody, because he doesn't even like to line up square on WR's, but rather already has his hips turned in bail coverage. Also, I remember looking at his college tape where he liked to cheat off his man to try and make plays....that kind of lack of discipline wont play in the NFL. He could play man in college, but not the NFL.

We can hope that he improves, but in season 3 if he still cant develop technique, understand zone concepts and is losing WR's for big plays, its not likely he is going to develop into anything more than a guy that should be a slot or dime CB in sub packages.

[Mojouw]

Burns would be a penalty machine in press man. He doesn't have the technique to jam anybody, because he doesn't even like to line up square on WR's, but rather already has his hips turned in bail coverage. Also, I remember looking at his college tape where he liked to cheat off his man to try and make plays....that kind of lack of discipline wont play in the NFL. He could play man in college, but not the NFL.

We can hope that he improves, but in season 3 if he still cant develop technique, understand zone concepts and is losing WR's for big plays, its not likely he is going to develop into anything more than a guy that should be a slot or dime CB in sub packages.

oh, I didn’t think he would be good at it. Just pointing out that he’s too dumb to play zone.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

oh, I didn’t think he would be good at it. Just pointing out that he’s too dumb to play zone.

Yeah, bad combo. Too dumb to play zone and too sloppy of technique to play man. Oh well I guess....