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Thread: Americans dislike political correctness

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    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Americans dislike political correctness

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ctness/572581/
    "Among the general population, a full 80 percent believe that “political correctness is a problem in our country.” Even young people are uncomfortable with it, including 74 percent ages 24 to 29, and 79 percent under age 24. On this particular issue, the woke are in a clear minority across all ages."
    In fact, you can break it down by any demographic and you will find that they still overwhelmingly believe that political correctness is a problem with the exception of one group: Liberal activists (who comprise roughly 8% of the population). Isn't it odd that we've been under the opposite impression all this time?
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Hell, I don't even know whats pc and what isn't anymore. So I just say what the hell I want to.


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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Yeah, liberal activists have taken political correctness so far, no sane rational being could possibly be on board with it.

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    I love how "liberal activists" get blamed for having so much power, yet are always discussed as being this vanishingly small minority of the population. How can such a small (and poorly armed!) group of people wield so much power and influence?

    Could it be that at least half of the "Political Correctness has gotten out of control" is over-hyped stuff from the media trying to fill air-time? Nah...that never happens.

    I think being overly PC is dumb and asinine. But trying to ensure we live in a society that does not regularly denigrate the mentally ill & disabled, sexual orientation, or racial background is a pretty solid idea.

    Here is an interesting nugget from the report: "since the survey question did not define political correctness for respondents, we cannot be sure what, exactly, the 80 percent of Americans who regard it as a problem have in mind."

    While I have no problem (and agree) with a sentiment that political correctness can go too far and often does - this survey is essentially garbage from a science perspective. Those 8 out of 10 people could each be identifying and reacting to a different self-defined term. That makes the data almost totally incomparable and one step above useless. What it does point out is that the PC stuff that starts on social media and then goes viral is simply something we all should just start ignoring. Oh no! A teenager made a dumb decision somewhere and it offended someone! Quick! Lets put it on the news and yell about it! That seems to be a bigger problem than any political correctness or activism itself.

    As to worrying about what words you are using, ask yourself a simple question -- would I yell what I am about to say to someone in anger in order to hurt them? Then, yeah, it is probably a poor choice of words.

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Perhaps a bigger problem is Group Think... that's what I think.

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I love how "liberal activists" get blamed for having so much power, yet are always discussed as being this vanishingly small minority of the population. How can such a small (and poorly armed!) group of people wield so much power and influence?

    Could it be that at least half of the "Political Correctness has gotten out of control" is over-hyped stuff from the media trying to fill air-time? Nah...that never happens.
    Nah. It's because the media, Hollywood, corporate HR people, and college faculty are primarily liberal activists themselves. As a result, the "woke" point of view is presented as much more prevalent than it actually is.

    While I have no problem (and agree) with a sentiment that political correctness can go too far and often does - this survey is essentially garbage from a science perspective. Those 8 out of 10 people could each be identifying and reacting to a different self-defined term.
    I disagree. I believe "political correctness" is a pretty self- explanatory term. And this is the most thoroughly conducted poll I've seen in many a moon.

    What I find remarkable is the unanimity of people who oppose it, cutting across all races, religions, ages, education, and income levels. Americans rarely agree so universally on any topic.

    Best,
    -Slashy
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    I do not want to hear about " the plight of this group or that group or any damn group " or anything that singles out any specific group ...

    when people start to realize we are all in this together and we are all Americans and should cherish that and be thankful we where born here as opposed to any place else on the planet , that's the America I grew up in or at least how I remember it and that is what I would like to see again..

    Families having picnics on Memorial day the 4th and Labor day with festivities and togetherness maybe some fireworks ( in the sky not the fighting we have all been succumb to )

    where people helped their neighbor and the neighbor showed gratitude with a kind word ...

    we have become to ME invested and to EXPECTANT on others to do for you what you are unwilling to do for yourself ....

    the days when Men where Men and nobody expected anything less ..

    when Men didn't shave their chest ( and now legs )

    we have become pussified and soft and harbor as many cry babies as we do men .... its a sad state of affairs I tell you
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Nah. It's because the media, Hollywood, corporate HR people, and college faculty are primarily liberal activists themselves. As a result, the "woke" point of view is presented as much more prevalent than it actually is.


    I disagree. I believe "political correctness" is a pretty self- explanatory term. And this is the most thoroughly conducted poll I've seen in many a moon.

    What I find remarkable is the unanimity of people who oppose it, cutting across all races, religions, ages, education, and income levels. Americans rarely agree so universally on any topic.

    Best,
    -Slashy
    The authors of both the article and the poll agree that they have a trend that people oppose "political correctness" but have no idea exactly what people mean by that because no one ever defined the term.

    You can not quantify something if everyone involved in the process is not counting the same thing. That is just piss-poor research design.

    That doesn't mean that "pc" is often a silly issue that causes people to over-react to things, but actually defining what the line is would be really intriguing.

    For instance, "heritage centers" or "community centers" for one of any number of immigrant groups/cultures is not a new thing in any American town. I drive past an Italian, Polish, and German ones on my way to work each week. That never seemed to be a problem years ago. Now we are all angry at some level about "identity politics". Reading American political and social history, there has always been identity politics. But it does feel that we are somehow dealing with a different beast the last handful of years.

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness


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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Woodley after his big contract.

    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The authors of both the article and the poll agree that they have a trend that people oppose "political correctness" but have no idea exactly what people mean by that because no one ever defined the term.

    You can not quantify something if everyone involved in the process is not counting the same thing. That is just piss-poor research design.

    That doesn't mean that "pc" is often a silly issue that causes people to over-react to things, but actually defining what the line is would be really intriguing.

    For instance, "heritage centers" or "community centers" for one of any number of immigrant groups/cultures is not a new thing in any American town. I drive past an Italian, Polish, and German ones on my way to work each week. That never seemed to be a problem years ago. Now we are all angry at some level about "identity politics". Reading American political and social history, there has always been identity politics. But it does feel that we are somehow dealing with a different beast the last handful of years.
    Mojouw,
    We're not talking about a complicated and nuanced subject here like poetry or Middle East geopolitics. People know what "political correctness" is and they universally see it as a major problem... Except those that fall into the "liberal activist" tribe. It's one of those subjects that, as George Orwell famously stated "There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them".

    What we have here is third-wave feminist intersectional identity politics. It's the sort of thing that nobody could actually believe unless it's drilled into their heads while they're still soft, like religion or Santa Claus. (Stand by for the wrath of the religious right ). All college students are indoctrinated throughout their tenure, and then they spread it like a cancer in their professional career. Journalists, Administrators, film majors, Poli-Sci, etc...
    And then before you know it, the 80% who aren't on board think that they're the ones in the minority. They're not... they're actually in the overwhelming majority. That is the dangerous truth that this survey exposes. It undermines the 'gaslighting' effort. Another freebie: Nobody actually gives a crap about 'global climate change'. Everybody *thinks* that everybody else does and that they're in the minority... but they're actually the overwhelming majority.

    I had typed an epic tome on the subject, but in the middle of it I remembered something critically important: I'm not here to convert you. Everyone else on this forum (except perhaps AtlantaDan) knows exactly what I'm talking about. And maybe you do too, but you can't admit it because it's dangerous to be caught "not woke" or not "checking your privilege". You don't have to answer this; we know how important virtue signalling is in those circles. Ignore the results of this survey at your own peril. Hell, maybe you're right and everybody actually loves political correctness and merely disagree with various details of it.
    /I wouldn't bet on it tho'

    Best,
    -Slashy
    Last edited by GoSlash27; 10-15-2018 at 06:49 PM.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  12. #12

    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The authors of both the article and the poll agree that they have a trend that people oppose "political correctness" but have no idea exactly what people mean by that because no one ever defined the term.

    You can not quantify something if everyone involved in the process is not counting the same thing. That is just piss-poor research design.

    That doesn't mean that "pc" is often a silly issue that causes people to over-react to things, but actually defining what the line is would be really intriguing.

    For instance, "heritage centers" or "community centers" for one of any number of immigrant groups/cultures is not a new thing in any American town. I drive past an Italian, Polish, and German ones on my way to work each week. That never seemed to be a problem years ago. Now we are all angry at some level about "identity politics". Reading American political and social history, there has always been identity politics. But it does feel that we are somehow dealing with a different beast the last handful of years.
    I would argue the reason for the difference is that postmodernism broke the metanarrative. Before that, the local narratives were subjugated. So, you had Italian Americans, but Italian Americans were Americans who shared similar heritage. Today, it feels as though an Italian American means we focus more on the Italian and Italian experience than the American and American experience. (I'm Italian, which is why I'm using the phrase). As such, the narrative of what Italians went through, suffered, and so on, on behalf of the WASPS on the East Coast is more important than the larger idea of the American dream where the parents bust their ass and give their children a better life, and their children bust their ass and before you know it, the grandchildren of boat people are doctors and professors and recognize the opportunity that came along with the heart ache.

    I suspect if that trend was somehow reversed; if there were a way to focus on the metanarrative and then found within the metanarrative room for the local narratives, it wouldn't be nearly as divisive. But, as long as it's a zero-sum game of local vs. metanarrative, it will continue to be that different beast your talking about.

    EDIT: Obviously, the black narrative is a different story all together as it carries within it centuries of dealing with racism. However, the underlying fact still remains. The normal message today is (or at least how it feels as usually said by white ultra-liberal college professors and political hacks) "America, that bigoted, racist, white group of people who are the cause of all the problems need to shut up and sit down and shut up and stop being proud of their country because it is evil and wicked and did nothing good." (Now, you and I know that for many, that's not the real message. However, it sure feels that way because that's all that gets harped on). If that message instead was, "This is a great nation, but let's recognize all the stories that made it great rather than just the story of the WASPS" then I think we again move to finding room for the local narratives within the metanarrative, and the entire story is accepted that much easier.


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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Craic,
    The main problem isn't that the metanarrative has become more focused toward hyphenated-American identities. The problem is that those hyphenated-American identities have been intentionally weaponized for political and social gain. They don't just seek equality for everyone, they seek domination for those whom they see as the most victimized and subjugation of those who they see as the most privileged. To do this, they categorize everyone by race, gender, religion, and economic background. Then they battle it out to see who is the most victimized.
    It is an inherently divisive philosophy by design.

    Best,
    -Slashy
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Senior Member Array title="TD's & Beer has a brilliant future"> TD's & Beer's Avatar

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Blame the media!



    One more time...

    lol


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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I would argue the reason for the difference is that postmodernism broke the metanarrative. Before that, the local narratives were subjugated. So, you had Italian Americans, but Italian Americans were Americans who shared similar heritage. Today, it feels as though an Italian American means we focus more on the Italian and Italian experience than the American and American experience. (I'm Italian, which is why I'm using the phrase). As such, the narrative of what Italians went through, suffered, and so on, on behalf of the WASPS on the East Coast is more important than the larger idea of the American dream where the parents bust their ass and give their children a better life, and their children bust their ass and before you know it, the grandchildren of boat people are doctors and professors and recognize the opportunity that came along with the heart ache.

    I suspect if that trend was somehow reversed; if there were a way to focus on the metanarrative and then found within the metanarrative room for the local narratives, it wouldn't be nearly as divisive. But, as long as it's a zero-sum game of local vs. metanarrative, it will continue to be that different beast your talking about.

    EDIT: Obviously, the black narrative is a different story all together as it carries within it centuries of dealing with racism. However, the underlying fact still remains. The normal message today is (or at least how it feels as usually said by white ultra-liberal college professors and political hacks) "America, that bigoted, racist, white group of people who are the cause of all the problems need to shut up and sit down and shut up and stop being proud of their country because it is evil and wicked and did nothing good." (Now, you and I know that for many, that's not the real message. However, it sure feels that way because that's all that gets harped on). If that message instead was, "This is a great nation, but let's recognize all the stories that made it great rather than just the story of the WASPS" then I think we again move to finding room for the local narratives within the metanarrative, and the entire story is accepted that much easier.
    I agree for the most part. I don't think it is quite as bad as all that, but you are certainly not wrong. Also, postmodernism sucks and has been used by far too many people too dumb to understand it and it as a result has become an intellectually bankrupt perspective. Back to the main topic...

    I think that there is a continuum of things that we can call "politically correct". Ranging from "Hey don't use derogatory terms for the disabled and handicapped, genitalia, race, creed, gender, religion, etc in daily life and general conversation because that is almost certain to be heard as offensive by more than one person you encounter in the big wide world." at one end to whatever tortured almost purely academic labeling and micro-aggressions we can find at the other end of the spectrum.

    I suspect that individual reactions against "PC" fall out along that spectrum. Some people fly into a rage when they hear "Happy Holidays" others have zero problem with it. Some have no problem with removing "gay" and "retarded" from their pool of conversational adjectives. Others really don't like it. Some think it is a great idea to present their children with a consistent array of "neutral" terms and expectations while others believe that is height of absurdity.

    My point is that saying that 80% of the people are against political correctness and NOT defining where on the spectrum their line falls is not a totally useful study. In fact it is not really even scientific, but that is a different discussion. For instance if PC could be scaled from 1-10 - with 1 being aware of some basic things that others I encounter may find really offensive and 10 being some of the pure nonsense we all can think of - I, personally, am okay (may not totally like, but OK) with about a 3-5 on the scale. So how would I answer the question? Maybe they interview my neighbors and they just can't stand any of it (like a less than 1) while the people the next block over are hipster millennial and they like almost all of it (8-9) - how would those folks answer? They way the question/survey is constructed they would all answer "NO" but mean TOTALLY different things.

    So all I am really arguing for is that we have to define these nebulous terms to ensure that we are all talking about the same thing AND that identity politics is an old old old game and simply giving it a new name doesn't move the needle for me personally.

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    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Here's some statements on the subject from the participants:

    “I don’t think it is a problem. It’s used by haters to kind of push back against new ideas and ideas of equality and fairness.... There are terms that are abusive and you wouldn’t want anyone to use against you”
    — 60-year-old man, Indiana, Progressive Activist

    “I think that there are certain things that you can say or do that offend people, as far as being politically correct, but I also think that we have become a society that is offended at everything. There is a lot in today’s society that was never discussed before such as sexual orientation or gender fluidity that is kind of new and people don’t know how to handle that... and it is not so much that they are intentionally being disrespectful or offensive... It’s a combination of lack of knowledge and maybe oversensitivity.”
    — 30-year-old woman, Indiana, Traditional Liberal.

    “Why do we have this need in the US to call out people for appreciating a culture?... It’s becoming ridiculous.”
    — 30-year-old woman, Arizona, Politically Disengaged

    “I think it’s a quagmire. It’s so weird because... it’s a good thing to actually try and not offend anybody when you are speaking to them. It’s a good idea to try to respect other religions, cultures, and orientations.
    At the same time, I do feel like sometimes we have pushed it down people’s throats to the point of nausea. Shouldn’t your agenda
    be to further educate people? Wouldn’t that be the more proper way to spread that message?”
    — 40-year-old man, Chicago, Moderate

    “I define it as lying. Not saying what you really think. It really hurts everybody. This is why I said I am a big fan of Trump, because he is not politically correct.
    I think political correctness is really damaging. I think under the guise of being nice or friendly, you’re not really telling what you really think. That’s not helpful.”
    — 43-year-old man, New York, Traditional Conservative
    Sounds to me like they're all talking about the same thing.

    Best,
    -Slashy
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Here's some statements on the subject from the participants:



    Sounds to me like they're all talking about the same thing.

    Best,
    -Slashy
    So that's exactly what I argued for. It's not a simple pro or con binary. Each respondent is self identifying an idiosyncratic line that is too far for them. Making the general statement there can be too much PC as somewhat true but making it impossible to determine what or where that line is.

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    So that's exactly what I argued for. It's not a simple pro or con binary. Each respondent is self identifying an idiosyncratic line that is too far for them. Making the general statement there can be too much PC as somewhat true but making it impossible to determine what or where that line is.
    No more so than any other generic poll question, but whatever... Each respondent in this survey has their own idiosyncratic idea of where the line is for "too far". 80% of them believe we are beyond it.
    Young, old, black, white, hispanic, rich, poor... hell, even the traditional liberals say it's gone too far. So yeah... it *is* a simple pro or con binary.
    Or more like pro or con...

    Best,
    -Slashy
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  19. #19
    ® Array title="Steeldude "> Steeldude's Avatar

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by TD's & Beer View Post
    Blame the media!



    One more time...

    lol

    It never gets old watching the liberals cry. 2 years later and they are still crying.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

  21. #21
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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    I do not want to hear about " the plight of this group or that group or any damn group " or anything that singles out any specific group ...

    when people start to realize we are all in this together and we are all Americans and should cherish that and be thankful we where born here as opposed to any place else on the planet , that's the America I grew up in or at least how I remember it and that is what I would like to see again..

    Families having picnics on Memorial day the 4th and Labor day with festivities and togetherness maybe some fireworks ( in the sky not the fighting we have all been succumb to )

    where people helped their neighbor and the neighbor showed gratitude with a kind word ...

    we have become to ME invested and to EXPECTANT on others to do for you what you are unwilling to do for yourself ....

    the days when Men where Men and nobody expected anything less ..

    when Men didn't shave their chest ( and now legs )

    we have become pussified and soft and harbor as many cry babies as we do men .... its a sad state of affairs I tell you
    Too many people don't like America and don't want to be Americans.

    Correct. Men are dying off. They are turning into crybaby liberals.
    Hater = Realist

  22. #22
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    Re: Americans dislike political correctness

    I miss the days I used to be able to call NE fans a bunch of faggots and it'd be politically correct lol

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