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Thread: L.J Fort.

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    L.J Fort.

    Maybe he is what the Steelers Defense has needed all along. They were nowhere near as horrid with him today in the lineup as were in past weeks. Still not great by any stretch, but not a disgraceful abomination.

    Is he a real difference maker?

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Difference maker? No. And it won't matter because he will go back to the bench when VW returns.

    Someone smarter than me will have to determine if Fort looked better in space than VW or Bostic.

    They key today was they got pressure while still being able to drop a ton of guys into coverage. Davis stayed disciplined as the deep safety and they didn't expose their corners. Falcons had to try and chip away underneath with Sanu and Hooper. I'll take that over Ridley and Julio every time.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    He did have a good game today.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    He's not a difference maker, but he is more athletic than Vince Williams. I think some of that showed a little today.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    He held down the fort today

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    He held down the fort today
    I see what you did there, lol

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Fort>>>Slowakevich.

    Did they play Matthew Thomas btw? I didn't see him. They should play him over Big Red

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    If Fort had started the playoff game against the Jaguars, we eke out a victory.

    As in: He’s better than a guy who was sitting on his couch the week prior.

    As in, part 2: I’m still in disbelief over the logic (or, lack thereof) of that roster move.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    If Fort had started the playoff game against the Jaguars, we eke out a victory.

    As in: He’s better than a guy who was sitting on his couch the week prior.

    As in, part 2: I’m still in disbelief over the logic (or, lack thereof) of that roster move.
    I think the belief that Spence high football iq is better than Fort athletic ability is possibly still correct. I think Fort is a downgrade over VW, but did well enough in relief today.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I think the belief that Spence high football iq is better than Fort athletic ability is possibly still correct. I think Fort is a downgrade over VW, but did well enough in relief today.
    No doubt that Spence has a high football IQ. He was my guy in that draft, and I was crushed (like the nerves in his knee) when he was injured. Too soon?

    But, as I mentioned in January, on that 4th-&-1 play, Spence diagnoses the play perfectly. He lined up to tackle Fournette perfectly. But, Spence simply wasn’t physically able to make the tackle. Matakevich makes that stop (but, he was injured)... and if Fort can read the play quick enough, he makes that stop.

    Of course, the question is: would Fort have been able to have disgnose that play?... to which, I contend: Yes, Fort would have made that stop.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Maybe he is what the Steelers Defense has needed all along. They were nowhere near as horrid with him today in the lineup as were in past weeks. Still not great by any stretch, but not a disgraceful abomination.

    Is he a real difference maker?
    The defense played very good.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I think the belief that Spence high football iq is better than Fort athletic ability is possibly still correct. I think Fort is a downgrade over VW, but did well enough in relief today.
    Vince Williams is fine. If anything, its really John Bostic whos the weak link. He's very slow and can't cover.

    He couldn't chase down Sanu on the Falcons' first TD.

    Football Smarts or not, the Steelers need athleticism at the ILB position, Bostic and Matakevitch don't bring that to the table.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Vince Williams is fine. If anything, its really John Bostic whos the weak link. He's very slow and can't cover.

    He couldn't chase down Sanu on the Falcons' first TD.

    Football Smarts or not, the Steelers need athleticism at the ILB position, Bostic and Matakevitch don't bring that to the table.
    News Flash Vince Williams ( and I like Vince ) was not going to chase down Sanu either , in fact no linebacker on our roster not named Thomas could have ..

    and for the record Bostic is faster than VW
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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Sigh...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/atlanta-fa...ers-123021681/

    The Steelers are in some sort of zone look here. Burns and Hilton stay outside on the near side of the field to take both the short route by the WR that stays flat to the line of scrimmage and the slow slant that is run by #11. They end up with about 5-6 guys involved in the rush. Bostic has to take a step into his gap because of the play action to the RB. He must respect the run in this situation. That moves him about 2-3 steps to the far side of the play and Sanu runs to the "hole in the zone" where Ryan hits him with the pass.

    Looks like Davis was the single safety with Edmunds playing alongside Bostic (this may not be correct) as a run defender with Haden just hanging out on the far side of the play.

    Long story short, the fault on this is likely in the original formation by the Steelers. Looks like they were convinced of the run and slanted defenders towards the strong side of the play to deal with it. Ran Sanu in behind the LB (Bostic) and in front of the safety (Davis who had to stay deep to deal with Julio coming across behind Sanu). I suspect, but do not know, that the true "fault" in this was Bostic taking a few steps on the play action and Davis not crashing down to Sanu's route earlier. But if he did that...Ball likely goes to Julio...

    I don't know because I'm far from good at looking at all this stuff. But I do know that it is far far more complicated than "Bostic sucks".

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    No doubt that Spence has a high football IQ. He was my guy in that draft, and I was crushed (like the nerves in his knee) when he was injured. Too soon?

    But, as I mentioned in January, on that 4th-&-1 play, Spence diagnoses the play perfectly. He lined up to tackle Fournette perfectly. But, Spence simply wasn’t physically able to make the tackle. Matakevich makes that stop (but, he was injured)... and if Fort can read the play quick enough, he makes that stop.

    Of course, the question is: would Fort have been able to have disgnose that play?... to which, I contend: Yes, Fort would have made that stop.
    I know, we both liked how Spence was a student of the game and I think enough time has passed that the nerve reference is fine. I don't get the signing of him off the sofa last season either, but not sure if Fort makes the play.

    I just don't see Fort as a starter. He is a special teamer and reserve LB with enough athletic ability to be decent in coverage. IMO, as a backup ILB he is adequate. I would like to see somebody that is good. and I would like to see somebody at ILB that is Very good, but I guess next seasons draft could find somebody there.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Sigh...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/atlanta-fa...ers-123021681/

    The Steelers are in some sort of zone look here. Burns and Hilton stay outside on the near side of the field to take both the short route by the WR that stays flat to the line of scrimmage and the slow slant that is run by #11. They end up with about 5-6 guys involved in the rush. Bostic has to take a step into his gap because of the play action to the RB. He must respect the run in this situation. That moves him about 2-3 steps to the far side of the play and Sanu runs to the "hole in the zone" where Ryan hits him with the pass.

    Looks like Davis was the single safety with Edmunds playing alongside Bostic (this may not be correct) as a run defender with Haden just hanging out on the far side of the play.

    Long story short, the fault on this is likely in the original formation by the Steelers. Looks like they were convinced of the run and slanted defenders towards the strong side of the play to deal with it. Ran Sanu in behind the LB (Bostic) and in front of the safety (Davis who had to stay deep to deal with Julio coming across behind Sanu). I suspect, but do not know, that the true "fault" in this was Bostic taking a few steps on the play action and Davis not crashing down to Sanu's route earlier. But if he did that...Ball likely goes to Julio...

    I don't know because I'm far from good at looking at all this stuff. But I do know that it is far far more complicated than "Bostic sucks".
    Yeah, Bostic was out position to defend the pass, but Davis screaming in on a terrible angle, making zero contact as the deep man, pretty much gave up the TD.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Sigh...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/atlanta-fa...ers-123021681/

    The Steelers are in some sort of zone look here. Burns and Hilton stay outside on the near side of the field to take both the short route by the WR that stays flat to the line of scrimmage and the slow slant that is run by #11. They end up with about 5-6 guys involved in the rush. Bostic has to take a step into his gap because of the play action to the RB. He must respect the run in this situation. That moves him about 2-3 steps to the far side of the play and Sanu runs to the "hole in the zone" where Ryan hits him with the pass.

    Looks like Davis was the single safety with Edmunds playing alongside Bostic (this may not be correct) as a run defender with Haden just hanging out on the far side of the play.

    Long story short, the fault on this is likely in the original formation by the Steelers. Looks like they were convinced of the run and slanted defenders towards the strong side of the play to deal with it. Ran Sanu in behind the LB (Bostic) and in front of the safety (Davis who had to stay deep to deal with Julio coming across behind Sanu). I suspect, but do not know, that the true "fault" in this was Bostic taking a few steps on the play action and Davis not crashing down to Sanu's route earlier. But if he did that...Ball likely goes to Julio...

    I don't know because I'm far from good at looking at all this stuff. But I do know that it is far far more complicated than "Bostic sucks".

    Bostic read his keys and stayed with his responsibilities so I can not blame him for this at all ... for me once the ball was out the man designated to make the stop is Davis because at that point there is no danger of Julio making a play the ball is nowhere near him , Davis lack of ball awareness in this instance costed him enough time that he put himself at a bad angle to make a play and instead just looked foolish ..

    with deep ball responsibility as soon as the ball leaves the QBs hands you have a decision to make ( where the hell is the ball going ) once that you determine it is not going to the deepest man in your area you have to play down hard to the football , he didnt make his decision soon enough and he chose a path to the football that was anything but conventional and consequently failed to make a play
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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    Bostic read his keys and stayed with his responsibilities so I can not blame him for this at all ... for me once the ball was out the man designated to make the stop is Davis because at that point there is no danger of Julio making a play the ball is nowhere near him , Davis lack of ball awareness in this instance costed him enough time that he put himself at a bad angle to make a play and instead just looked foolish ..

    with deep ball responsibility as soon as the ball leaves the QBs hands you have a decision to make ( where the hell is the ball going ) once that you determine it is not going to the deepest man in your area you have to play down hard to the football , he didnt make his decision soon enough and he chose a path to the football that was anything but conventional and consequently failed to make a play
    I can totally see that. Like I said, I'm far from the best at this kinda stuff.

    But the original point still holds -- "Bostic Sux" is just nowhere near enough of an "analysis" of the play. I mean, Bostic may be bad in space and/or coverage, but Davis gets a great deal of blame here as well.

    Thanks for clarifying things!

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I can totally see that. Like I said, I'm far from the best at this kinda stuff.

    But the original point still holds -- "Bostic Sux" is just nowhere near enough of an "analysis" of the play. I mean, Bostic may be bad in space and/or coverage, but Davis gets a great deal of blame here as well.

    Thanks for clarifying things!

    you had it, you just didn't realize it or didnt trust yourself enough ...

    you have come a long long ways since we first got to know one another ... keep up the good work and trust what you see
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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I can totally see that. Like I said, I'm far from the best at this kinda stuff.

    But the original point still holds -- "Bostic Sux" is just nowhere near enough of an "analysis" of the play. I mean, Bostic may be bad in space and/or coverage, but Davis gets a great deal of blame here as well.

    Thanks for clarifying things!

    Always remember, when a mismatch in coverage occurs you can't blame a LB for not being able to cover a WR when he still has run responsibilities.

    That is a win by the offense. They either had a formation that they saw on tape and knew how the players involved would react if they got the same personnel as in the film......or the offense simply made correct calls to get that mismatch and the Steelers should have either called timeout to change personnel, or the defense failed to make the proper defensive calls with the personnel on the field to stop what the offense was trying to do to them.

    Also, the defense may have just completely blown an assignment.

    I'm not saying that the defense or the coaches could have called timeout. I'm just saying that sometimes the offense just wins with a perfect call against a favorable defense. The quarterback identified the defense, and got the ball to right man with the mismatch.
    Last edited by pczach; 10-08-2018 at 04:28 PM.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    Bostic read his keys and stayed with his responsibilities so I can not blame him for this at all ... for me once the ball was out the man designated to make the stop is Davis because at that point there is no danger of Julio making a play the ball is nowhere near him , Davis lack of ball awareness in this instance costed him enough time that he put himself at a bad angle to make a play and instead just looked foolish ..

    with deep ball responsibility as soon as the ball leaves the QBs hands you have a decision to make ( where the hell is the ball going ) once that you determine it is not going to the deepest man in your area you have to play down hard to the football , he didnt make his decision soon enough and he chose a path to the football that was anything but conventional and consequently failed to make a play
    I totally agree with the Davis blounder as previously posted, but looking closer you can see both Edmunds and Bostic keying on the RB. Surly, they both don't have that responsibility. There looks to also be a TE on that side of the formation, but there is Haden on that side looking to be keying on him. No one is lining up on Sanu on the inside of the formation if Bostic has the RB responsibility, so Edmunds must be on the wrong assignment then??

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelMember View Post
    I totally agree with the Davis blounder as previously posted, but looking closer you can see both Edmunds and Bostic keying on the RB. Surly, they both don't have that responsibility. There looks to also be a TE on that side of the formation, but there is Haden on that side looking to be keying on him. No one is lining up on Sanu on the inside of the formation if Bostic has the RB responsibility, so Edmunds must be on the wrong assignment then??

    no idea what Edmunds is doing other than possibly a very weak blitz effort as he is met by a lineman and stopped dead in his tracks and then turns to chase the play
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    Re: L.J Fort.

    That totally looks like Bostic bit on the play action and then realized he blew it.




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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I know, we both liked how Spence was a student of the game and I think enough time has passed that the nerve reference is fine. I don't get the signing of him off the sofa last season either, but not sure if Fort makes the play.

    I just don't see Fort as a starter. He is a special teamer and reserve LB with enough athletic ability to be decent in coverage. IMO, as a backup ILB he is adequate. I would like to see somebody that is good. and I would like to see somebody at ILB that is Very good, but I guess next seasons draft could find somebody there.
    Oh, I agree. To clarify, I’m not satisfied with Fort as a starter for an extended period of time.

    Shazier > VW > Fort > Spence

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Oh, I agree. To clarify, I’m not satisfied with Fort as a starter for an extended period of time.

    Shazier > VW > Fort > Spence
    I agree, but I don't think there is much difference between Spence and Fort. Spence post injury was good for a few years, but never regained his speed or quickness...but at that time I think his level of play was above any of Fort's best play. Spence when signed off the sofa at the end of last season was slower than Andy Russell dragging a piano.

    I find it interesting that there was all this talk of Matakevich being the incumbent in training camp, now it appears he is #4 on the depth chart behind Fort. The guy is strictly a 2 down ILB, but in a league where teams will pass on any of the first 2 downs.

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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    The guy is strictly a 2 down ILB, but in a league where teams will pass on any of the first 2 downs.
    and this is an issue in thinking ...

    you are correct in this era ( the passing league era ) no down is off limits for passing ...

    so what used to be called a 2 down LB is really in essence a short yardage or 3rd down LB in short yardage .... 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 ....

    but even that is flawed for many teams will still throw on you in those situations ...

    so then the question becomes what is the guys job at that point and the only answer that makes sense is special teams

    The best way to field a 3-4 team now and maximize your ability to stay in base is to employ not 1 but 2 guys with Ryan Shazier like qualities ...

    the difficult thing is to find 1 , the near impossible is finding 2
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    Re: L.J Fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    and this is an issue in thinking ...

    you are correct in this era ( the passing league era ) no down is off limits for passing ...

    so what used to be called a 2 down LB is really in essence a short yardage or 3rd down LB in short yardage .... 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 ....

    but even that is flawed for many teams will still throw on you in those situations ...

    so then the question becomes what is the guys job at that point and the only answer that makes sense is special teams

    The best way to field a 3-4 team now and maximize your ability to stay in base is to employ not 1 but 2 guys with Ryan Shazier like qualities ...

    the difficult thing is to find 1 , the near impossible is finding 2
    Agreed, but you can still have a guy like Matakevich that is a special teamer and somebody that you can employ in situations where you aren't asking him to run hashmark to sideline to make tackles. I also think you can have guys like Bostic and VW at ILB, but preferably not both, which don't have the speed or range to get to the edge in run game and get depth in coverage to narrow passing lanes.

    Yes, Steelers need somebody with skillset of Telvin Smith, Deion Jones, Darius Leonard, Shazier to play at the ILB spot, but it looks like that will have to wait another season. IMO L J Fort isn't the guy obviously, but did a good job as next guy up.

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