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Thread: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    What I think, you think or anyone else thinks doesn't amount to proof. I'm just clarifying the use of the term.
    Fair enough. I have a hard time believing that "beach week ralph club" doesn't refer to puking after drinking. I also know darn well what a "devil's triangle" is, and I'm pretty sure "'ski's with the fellas" is talking about drinking.

    I mean absent a time machine, I'm not sure what proof would look like.

    Look, I drank, said, and did incredibly stupid and offensive things at that age too. heck, I still do and say monumentally dumb stuff. But I've long since stopped coming up with barely believable cover stories.

    This whole process has been an exercise in watching someone piss on my leg and try and tell me its raining.

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Fair enough. I have a hard time believing that "beach week ralph club" doesn't refer to puking after drinking. I also know darn well what a "devil's triangle" is, and I'm pretty sure "'ski's with the fellas" is talking about drinking.

    I mean absent a time machine, I'm not sure what proof would look like.

    Look, I drank, said, and did incredibly stupid and offensive things at that age too. heck, I still do and say monumentally dumb stuff. But I've long since stopped coming up with barely believable cover stories.

    This whole process has been an exercise in watching someone piss on my leg and try and tell me its raining.
    You know the details better than me. I didn't watch 95% of it. That's why I asked if there was indeed PROOF that he lied. Based on your comments I would say there isn't at this point.

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    You know the details better than me. I didn't watch 95% of it. That's why I asked if there was indeed PROOF that he lied. Based on your comments I would say there isn't at this point.
    What would proof look like though?

    I mean I have repeatedly said that Berhe and Dangerfield do not deserve a roster spot because they can not play in either base defense or sub packages.

    So I say that "Dangerfield and Berhe are both below the line guys". Everyone knows what I mean - I mean that they are not good enough to be on the team.

    Now, later I decide I wish I hadn't said that. You ask me what "below the line" means and I tell you it is that they aren't good enough to make the Pro Bowl. What would constitute proof that I am lying?

    I mean at some point this is all just getting ridiculous. Dude lied. They were white lies. Same way Bill Clinton lied. Same way all these folks lie.

    Does it matter? Your mileage may vary.

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    The kind of proof that would hold up in a court of law.

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    The kind of proof that would hold up in a court of law.
    Again, fair enough.

    I think I am just frustrated that things are so partisan divided that we can't even agree on "facts" anymore.

    Before we even get to the alleged misconduct with women in his youth, dude wants me to believe that he couldn't drink on the weekdays at 18 years old because he had 'work' the next day? Then he has entries in his own handwriting on the calendar that use "clever" euphemisms for drinking on weekdays.

    But somehow, the world has become so twisted and angry that we can't even agree that is a reasonable starting place for a discussion. At 18 years old Kavanaugh liked to get fall down drunk, talk about sex, and chase girls. Weird. Totally shocking. Why is that so hard to agree on?

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Personally I don’t like the guy from what little bit I watched. He comes across angry and I believe he’s probably lying (not necessarily on the big stuff). Politically, I’m glad he was elected. I can separate the two. I would say the same of Trump. In politics, it’s the lesser of the evils for me.

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Again, fair enough.

    I think I am just frustrated that things are so partisan divided that we can't even agree on "facts" anymore.

    Before we even get to the alleged misconduct with women in his youth, dude wants me to believe that he couldn't drink on the weekdays at 18 years old because he had 'work' the next day? Then he has entries in his own handwriting on the calendar that use "clever" euphemisms for drinking on weekdays.

    But somehow, the world has become so twisted and angry that we can't even agree that is a reasonable starting place for a discussion. At 18 years old Kavanaugh liked to get fall down drunk, talk about sex, and chase girls. Weird. Totally shocking. Why is that so hard to agree on?
    Dissembling about how he spent his evenings as a teenager is not too surprising given that the confirmation hearing process is designed to allow the nominee to avoid stating their positions on important matters that may come before them as a Justice even though you can be dead certain that a Dem or GOP President would not have nominated them if they were not damn sure how the nominee generally would vote after the vetting process

    The process is broken - I think one good development from the cluster of the Kavanaugh hearings is it will blow up what remains of the myth that the Justices are some sort of oracles who just "call balls and strikes" (with strike zones that veer right or left) rather than attorneys with heavy duty political connections who are going to be a dependable vote on social issues and other matters of particular interest to the President who nominated them

    President Trump (or more accurately the Federalist Society) could have selected twenty other federal appellate or State court judges with as sterling and dependable a conservative record as Kavanaugh but without his baggage - but this became a test of political wills that was bastardized into energizing the respective bases of both parties for the midterms and Kavanaugh unprofessionally losing his shit at the hearing somehow became a point in his favor among his more fervent supporters - what a system

    Senate races move right, House races move left in political fallout from Kavanaugh confirmation fight

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.f01a244a1ab1

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Personally I don’t like the guy from what little bit I watched. He comes across angry and I believe he’s probably lying (not necessarily on the big stuff). Politically, I’m glad he was elected. I can separate the two. I would say the same of Trump. In politics, it’s the lesser of the evils for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Dissembling about how he spent his evenings as a teenager is not too surprising given that the confirmation hearing process is designed to allow the nominee to avoid stating their positions on important matters that may come before them as a Justice even though you can be dead certain that a Dem or GOP President would not have nominated them if they were not damn sure how the nominee generally would vote after the vetting process

    The process is broken - I think one good development from the cluster of the Kavanaugh hearings is it will blow up what remains of the myth that the Justices are some sort of oracles who just "call balls and strikes" (with strike zones that veer right or left) rather than attorneys with heavy duty political connections who are going to be a dependable vote on social issues and other matters of particular interest to the President who nominated them

    GOP could have nominated twenty other federal appellate or State court judges with as sterling and dependable a conservative record as Kavanaugh but without his baggage - but this became a test of political wills that was bastardized into energizing the respective bases of both parties for the midterms and Kavanaugh unprofessionally losing his shit at the hearing somehow became a point in his favor among his more fervent supporters - what a system

    Senate races move right, House races move left in political fallout from Kavanaugh confirmation fight

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.f01a244a1ab1
    The bold is what is so weird to me. I can completely understand how Judge Kavanaugh and now Justice Kavanaugh is a political "win" for many. Great! That's what winning elections and getting a message out to your base allows you to do.

    But, like why did they pick this hill to die on? There was an interview with the head of the Federalist Society (the organization that generates the lists that the GOP picks judges from) where he literally said the list that Kavanaugh's name came from was not ranked, prioritized, or otherwise weighted. Each judge on the list was viewed as equivalent and holding identical legal/political viewpoints. And he further indicated that the best way to choose a name would be to throw a dart at the list.

    All that being said, I can't figure out why the GOP wanted to go through a toxic confirmation fight. Unless McConnell read it all better than anyone and now they win the midterms in a landslide because people are pissed...

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    I'm fairly sure it didn't matter who trump picked the democrats are hell bent on opposing anything and everything by any means necessary to push their agenda. People are pissed because they're tired of all the bullshit coming from that side of the isle. imo

    Both sides do it but the left has cornered the market on it since the election. Calling half the country deplorable woke a sleeping giant that gave us all trump.


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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    I'm fairly sure it didn't matter who trump picked the democrats are hell bent on opposing anything and everything by any means necessary to push their agenda. People are pissed because they're tired of all the bullshit coming from that side of the isle. imo

    Both sides do it but the left has cornered the market on it since the election. Calling half the country deplorable woke a sleeping giant that gave us all trump.
    Again, not all of that is wrong. But if the Dems were just going to go off the deep end no matter what, how do you explain Justice Gorsuch? His nomination and confirmation went off without a hitch - or at least as smoothly as the toxic environment in American politics can allow for.

    I mean if there was ever a Supreme court seat to fight over, that one was it. And Gorsuch is deeply opposed to what I figure you mean when you talk about the Dems agenda. But they didn't fly off the handle...

    Just seems there is a smoke and fire issue here that people are really really going out of their way to deny.

    None of it matters anyways, dude got confirmed. Just frustrating that there are no facts anymore in American politics on either side. As a result, no one serves the people.

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    I guess someone had to be the adult in the room.

    Thats the problem they were unsubstantiated allegations and any witness's she identified had no memory of such a thing ever happening/no proof at all as far as i know. Maybe something happened to her and maybe she identified the wrong guy. Obviously her memory isn't that great if you can't remember how you got there or even how you got home. To many holes in her story.
    And the guilty until proven innocent the left was running with is what pissed people off and Democrats wanted to go as far as having an fbi investigation into the puking and farting of a teenager. Really??? That's the shit people are tired of.


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    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    if the Dems were just going to go off the deep end no matter what, how do you explain Justice Gorsuch? His nomination and confirmation went off without a hitch - or at least as smoothly as the toxic environment in American politics can allow for.
    The difference is Gorsuch was replacing a conservative Justice, while Kavanaugh was replacing a moderate one. Gorsuch didn't tip the balance.

    Remember, the left went into full "repel boarders" mode before Trump had even selected a nominee. "We will do everything in our power to stop (insert nominee here)". That didn't happen with Gorsuch. Plus, it's midterm season now.

    Best,
    -Slashy
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    The difference is Gorsuch was replacing a conservative Justice, while Kavanaugh was replacing a moderate one. Gorsuch didn't tip the balance.

    Remember, the left went into full "repel boarders" mode before Trump had even selected a nominee. "We will do everything in our power to stop (insert nominee here)". That didn't happen with Gorsuch. Plus, it's midterm season now.

    Best,
    -Slashy
    Kinda like when McConnell obstructed a nominee for how long? And bragged about how it's his proudest moment in life?

    These dudes are all self serving frauds beholden to the donor class.

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Kinda like when McConnell obstructed a nominee for how long? And bragged about how it's his proudest moment in life?

    These dudes are all self serving frauds beholden to the donor class.
    That was then - this is now

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) — who blocked President Barack Obama’s 2016 nominee to the Supreme Court for nearly a year amid widespread Democratic objections — signaled Monday that he would help fill a high-court vacancy if one emerges when President Trump is up for re*election in 2020.

    Speaking at a news conference in Louisville, McConnell said his decision to block Obama’s nominee, Judge Merrick Garland, was based on a tradition that opposition parties in control of the Senate do not confirm Supreme Court nominees during presidential election years. He claimed the precedent only applies when different parties control the Senate and the White House.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.e5a61dae4106

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Kinda like when McConnell obstructed a nominee for how long? And bragged about how it's his proudest moment in life?

    These dudes are all self serving frauds beholden to the donor class.
    Difference being they didn't turn it into a kangaroo court with allegations of sexual assault and crazed protesters. They merely refused to take up the issue.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Difference being they didn't turn it into a kangaroo court with allegations of sexual assault and crazed protesters. They merely refused to take up the issue.
    According to the President the "crazed protesters" were just contractors


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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    She accused him of assaulting her before he was even on Trumps short list...so lets not get all Neanderthalish now

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    That was then - this is now

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) — who blocked President Barack Obama’s 2016 nominee to the Supreme Court for nearly a year amid widespread Democratic objections — signaled Monday that he would help fill a high-court vacancy if one emerges when President Trump is up for re*election in 2020.

    Speaking at a news conference in Louisville, McConnell said his decision to block Obama’s nominee, Judge Merrick Garland, was based on a tradition that opposition parties in control of the Senate do not confirm Supreme Court nominees during presidential election years. He claimed the precedent only applies when different parties control the Senate and the White House.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.e5a61dae4106

    If anyone else remembers Calvin & Hobbes, this sums it up for me

    Dems didn't do it to Eisenhower in '56...So Cecil Turtle is up to his shenanigans...again

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Serious question - do you think the President believes this or is just tweeting something he knows not to be true to energize the base?
    Honestly, I don't care. But I *did* notice that your phrasing precludes the possibility of him being correct.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Honestly, I don't care. But I *did* notice that your phrasing precludes the possibility of him being correct.
    If there is any proof or for that matter anything else that indicates George Soros paid for last week feel free to provide a link - but I recognize that impermissibly places a burden of proof regarding the veracity of the President’s teeets which should be presumed truthful given his track record - sorry I asked the question - will not ask anything else

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Well there's this. His "donations" to groups are paying for them.

    George Soros-funded network drives anti-Kavanaugh activism

    George Soros may not be passing out twenties to activists on the street, but that doesn’t mean President Trump was wrong when he accused the Democratic megadonor of having a hand in the anti-Kavanaugh protests.

    Mr. Soros has been a key funder through his Open Society Foundations of a left-wing network of protest groups, including the Center for Popular Democracy, which has received millions of dollars from the Soros philanthropy and helped spearhead demonstrations against Supreme Court Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh.

    “Most any left-wing group of any consequence at all is getting Soros money,” said Scott Walter, president of the Capital Research Center. “In my decades of studying left-wing groups, I almost never find a group that lacks funding from Soros.”

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ng-protesters/


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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    So just like any relevant right leaning group gets Koch brothers money.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/27/koch...ion-cycle.html

    "The network of advocacy groups tied to billionaire industrialists Charles and David Koch pledged to spend close to $400 million on campaign contributions and policy initiatives in the lead-up to the vote in November, a 60 percent jump in spending from the 2016 election cycle, officials said. One of the hallmarks of that effort is a fresh influx of support for the Republican tax plan, with up to $20 million devoted to selling its benefits to voters this year."

    I just get so tired of Soros being raised as this liberal boogeyman who is using his money to somehow unduly influence American politics. I mean he may be, but he is more than matched by the Koch brothers and others on the opposite side of the coin.

    A handful of very wealthy people control the purse strings on either side. That is who runs the country for all intents and purposes.
    Last edited by Mojouw; 10-09-2018 at 05:08 PM.

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    If there is any proof or for that matter anything else that indicates George Soros paid for last week feel free to provide a link - but I recognize that impermissibly places a burden of proof regarding the veracity of the President’s teeets which should be presumed truthful given his track record - sorry I asked the question - will not ask anything else
    AtlantaDan,
    If I insulted you, I apologize. That wasn't my intent. I'm just pointing out that it's possible that he's correct in this case, and your question didn't allow for that possibility. A lot of the protests (especially in DC) are astroturf, and the Dems are known to hire protesters and provide them with signs. And yes, Soros funnels a lot of cash to lefty activist groups. It's not out of the question that Trump is correct, although I don't know one way or the other.

    Best,
    -Slashy
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    AtlantaDan,
    If I insulted you, I apologize. That wasn't my intent. I'm just pointing out that it's possible that he's correct in this case, and your question didn't allow for that possibility. A lot of the protests (especially in DC) are astroturf, and the Dems are known to hire protesters and provide them with signs. And yes, Soros funnels a lot of cash to lefty activist groups. It's not out of the question that Trump is correct, although I don't know one way or the other.

    Best,
    -Slashy
    No need to apologize and no offense taken.

    As I posted with Mach1 yesterday, I have pretty much stayed away from the politics threads. Getting back into the fray on Kavanaugh has reminded me why I should stay away, given my quick trigger finger and interest in continuing to enjoy posting on football related matters with you and other posters without napalming any bridges with fellow posters because of my political views.


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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    So just like any relevant right leaning group gets Koch brothers money.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/27/koch...ion-cycle.html

    "The network of advocacy groups tied to billionaire industrialists Charles and David Koch pledged to spend close to $400 million on campaign contributions and policy initiatives in the lead-up to the vote in November, a 60 percent jump in spending from the 2016 election cycle, officials said. One of the hallmarks of that effort is a fresh influx of support for the Republican tax plan, with up to $20 million devoted to selling its benefits to voters this year."

    I just get so tired of Soros being raised as this liberal boogeyman who is using his money to somehow unduly influence American politics. I mean he may be, but he is more than matched by the Koch brothers and others on the opposite side of the coin.

    A handful of very wealthy people control the purse strings on either side. That is who runs the country for all intents and purposes.

    with some pretty dramatic differences ...

    1) one is a foreigner trying to dramatically influence American policy and ideals while paying for protests that lead to civil unrest , property damage and assaults a paid show for the media to convince people this is what is going on in their country ... when in fact its not ...go talk to your neighbor , talk to the guy at the corner store , sit down and talk to anyone other than protesters and extremists ....


    as for Kochs Bros ....Former Republican congressman Joe Scarborough, co-host of MSNBC's Morning Joe, has pointed out that, although their critics are usually unaware of the fact, the Koch brothers have supported more than just what are generally considered conservative causes. They opposed George W. Bush on many issues, are pro-choice, support same sex marriage, and worked closely with the Obama White House for the Obama administration's criminal justice reform initiatives that aligned with their own.In early 2018, political advocacy groups linked to the Koch family pledged to spend $400 million on the 2018 midterm elections, including $20 million to promote the H.R.1 – An Act to provide for reconciliation pursuant to titles II and V of the concurrent resolution on the budget for fiscal year 2018 to skeptical voters
    Last edited by Dwinsgames; 10-10-2018 at 05:49 AM.
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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Last I checked Soros was an American citizen. Paid protesters is tinfoil hat brigade stuff. And I'm well aware of who the Koch brothers support.

    Point is all these politicos are bought and paid for.

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Last I checked Soros was an American citizen. Paid protesters is tinfoil hat brigade stuff. And I'm well aware of who the Koch brothers support.

    Point is all these politicos are bought and paid for.
    you are right on the citizenship keep forgetting he has a dual citizenship

    hate to dissolution you but paid protestors is not a tin foil hat thing .....

    I know for a fact it is real have seen craigslist adds hiring them and know someone who went and participated to put food on the table for his family ...

    so it is the furthest thing from tinfoil hat as it gets ...

    now I am not saying EVERY protest is paid protest but I do know they exist
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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post

    now I am not saying EVERY protest is paid protest but I do know they exist
    Of course, as the President has posted, if you help out in assembling a rent a crowd at a political event you might have to wait a while to get paid

    Donald Trump's big presidential announcement Tuesday was made a little bigger with help from paid actors — at $50 a pop.

    New York-based Extra Mile Casting sent an email last Friday to its client list of background actors, seeking extras to beef up attendance at Trump's event.

    "We are looking to cast people for the event to wear t-shirts and carry signs and help cheer him in support of his announcement," reads the June 12 email, obtained by The Hollywood Reporter. "We understand this is not a traditional 'background job,' but we believe acting comes in all forms and this is inclusive of that school of thought." ...

    The pay was listed as $50 for less than three hours of work. According to the email, Extra Mile was reaching out to potential extras in partnership with Gotham Government Relations and Communications, a New York-Based political consulting group that has worked with Trump in the past.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...-actors-803161

    The Trump campaign failed to pay the $12,000 bill from Gotham until about a month after a complaint had been filed with the FEC.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.1a33e9fa3d79

  28. #58
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are right on the citizenship keep forgetting he has a dual citizenship

    hate to dissolution you but paid protestors is not a tin foil hat thing .....

    I know for a fact it is real have seen craigslist adds hiring them and know someone who went and participated to put food on the table for his family ...

    so it is the furthest thing from tinfoil hat as it gets ...

    now I am not saying EVERY protest is paid protest but I do know they exist
    I mean I guess everything exists somewhere. Most of the paid protestors I know about and have been able to find supported claims for are unions hiring folks to picket non-union construction sites.

    Lots of money that buys lots of speech on both sides. I think everyone needs to realize that there is no one America or no one set of values. Each side can mobilize a great number of people who think just like them. But there is no need to paint the other side as extremist zealots.

    Many of the popular conservative viewpoints about morality, culture, and religion I personally find extreme, outmoded, and repressive. But I don't think that people who agree with them are evil or not worthy of expressing their opinion. Disagreement is fine, but silencing and denigrating people for holding a different viewpoint is too small minded for me.

  29. #59
    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I mean I guess everything exists somewhere. Most of the paid protestors I know about and have been able to find supported claims for are unions hiring folks to picket non-union construction sites.

    Lots of money that buys lots of speech on both sides. I think everyone needs to realize that there is no one America or no one set of values. Each side can mobilize a great number of people who think just like them. But there is no need to paint the other side as extremist zealots.

    Many of the popular conservative viewpoints about morality, culture, and religion I personally find extreme, outmoded, and repressive. But I don't think that people who agree with them are evil or not worthy of expressing their opinion. Disagreement is fine, but silencing and denigrating people for holding a different viewpoint is too small minded for me.
    Not singling you out!

    Oh the irony.


    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  30. #60
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Kavanaugh Confirmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Not singling you out!

    Oh the irony.
    Not sure I follow, if that wasn't aimed at me...then where did you intend it to land?

    I mean if you're pointing out that there are loud entitled close minded jerk-offs on all sides...fine, but I've certainly conceded that point on multiple occasions.

    I mean if we are looking for irony. I might point out your own signature:

    "Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day. Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish."

    I mean, I'm a liberal, I demand my free fish!

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