Terrell Edmunds vs. Darius Leonard

[teegre]

Ryan Shazier was/will forever be linked with CJ Mosley.

Le’Veon Bell was/will forever be linked to Eddie Lacy.

...and...

Terrell Edmunds will forever be linked to Darius Leonard.


Many on here liked Leonard... but, no one thought he’d go that early. Many bloggers liked Leonard... but, none of them thought he would go that early. Many draft experts liked Leonard... but, none thought that he’d go that early.

Welp!!!... Leonard is displaying why he indeed should have gone that early.

Many have discussed that we should have traded up for Rashaan Evans... when, in reality, we probably should have simply drafted Darius Leonard in R1. That said, Edmunds could turn out to be a great pick. Edmunds came with glowing reviews... and like Leonard, Edmunds was seen as more of a “late R2” type of pick.

The obvious question shall forever be...

Which “reach” would/should have been the better pick: Edmunds or Leonard?

[DesertSteel]

Obviously, we should have went with Mosley and Lacy!

[Mojouw]

Sell the farm to go get Derwin James at 17.

[EzraTank]

Imagine how many more Lombardi's we'd have if we'd taken Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Gabriel Rivera?

[Fire Goodell]

Imagine how many more Lombardi's we'd have if we'd taken Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Gabriel Rivera?

nine thousand

[EzraTank]

nine thousand

Stop exaggerating, you know it would have only been eight thousand!

[Dwinsgames]

I was a Darius Leonard fan predraft , that said I thought he went a little higher than I personally would have been willing to take him . I thought he had a good shot of making it into round 3 but at that point how long he would last was anyone's guess ... hell he didn't make it to pick 40 if memory serves me ...at this point I misjudged ( it happens ) as to whether they over paid or not remains to be seen 2 games does not make a career but thus far he has looked like a bargain at where he was taken even .. he transitioned quickly lets see if the development continues or if he was quick to reach his ceiling ( I personally think he is scratching the surface of whats to come )

we need 2 guys just like him IMO run and hit linebackers are a thing and right now they are the trending thing esp is you line up in a 3-4 the more guys you have on the field in base capable of coverage the easier it is to disguise your coverage's and the more often you can stay in base ...

[teegre]

I thought he went a little higher than I personally would have been willing to take him

Yep

I remember that during the actual draft, when there was that 12 hours between R1 and R2... and most of us were talking about Leonard. Then, like within the first 5 picks on Day 2, he was gone... and we all were like, “Whoa!!!”

[st33lersguy]

Too early to tell. Better coaching could turn Edmunds into a dynamic playmaker. Troy P didn't have a good rookie year

[teegre]

Too early to tell. Better coaching could turn Edmunds into a dynamic playmaker. Troy P didn't have a good rookie year

Oh trust me... I’m very high on Edmunds. His coach at VaTech said that he was the best player on that defense (not his brother).

I’m just saying that those two will forever be connected (just like Mosley & Shazier) and that both will likely be very good (just like Mosley & Shazier).

[pczach]

You can never make a final judgement on a player too soon. We haven't seen nearly enough of Edmunds to know anything yet. Let's get him in there with a fully functional defense where everyone is on the same page and watch him progress.

I was like pretty much everyone else here on Leonard. I liked him much more than his original rating by the "experts" coming out. I was also surprised when he went as high as he did. I thought the Steelers would have a shot at him on the second day, but they never had the chance.

I like what Thomas has shown from an athletic standpoint. Let's see what they can develop that into. When he is just able to play fast, he really flashes. Can the mental aspects of the game meet the physical gifts he already has? We shall see, but he has a chance to be something if they ever meet.

[teegre]

You can never make a final judgement on a player too soon. We haven't seen nearly enough of Edmunds to know anything yet. Let's get him in there with a fully functional defense where everyone is on the same page and watch him progress.

I was like pretty much everyone else here on Leonard. I liked him much more than his original rating by the "experts" coming out. I was also surprised when he went as high as he did. I thought the Steelers would have a shot at him on the second day, but they never had the chance.

I like what Thomas has shown from an athletic standpoint. Let's see what they can develop that into. When he is just able to play fast, he really flashes. Can the mental aspects of the game meet the physical gifts he already has? We shall see, but he has a chance to be something if they ever meet.

No doubt... it’s way, way, waaay too early to judge anything.

It’s just that Darius has already stood out (to me), and since he was a player who many of us discussed ad nauseum, the “link” between him & Terrell reminded me of draft discussions of years past.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I thought Leonard was kind of in the Deion Jones type of player and was thinking he would go around pick 40-50. He looked good at Senior Bowl and was a proven sideline to sideline tackler, but still a bit light so I dont think he was going to jump in the 1st round. Its only 2 weeks of both careers and the Steelers and a few other teams definately saw Edmunds as a first round talent, so we will see.

[Mojouw]

Has anyone watched the kid play? Stat lines seem okay, but is he just racking up run stops or is he playing in space/coverage?

Gamelog for the Redskins looks like the kid musta played like his hair was on fire. 15 tackles, 1 sack and they gave up under 100 on the ground. It also looks like Alex Smith went back into "Captain Checkdown" mode and one wonders how many of those tackles were on little curls to the flat?

If he can run downfield with TEs out of a base formation, than he would be really nice to have. If he is simply a more active Bostic, then it wouldn't change the root of the problems in Pittsburgh.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Has anyone watched the kid play? Stat lines seem okay, but is he just racking up run stops or is he playing in space/coverage?

Gamelog for the Redskins looks like the kid musta played like his hair was on fire. 15 tackles, 1 sack and they gave up under 100 on the ground. It also looks like Alex Smith went back into "Captain Checkdown" mode and one wonders how many of those tackles were on little curls to the flat?

If he can run downfield with TEs out of a base formation, than he would be really nice to have. If he is simply a more active Bostic, then it wouldn't change the root of the problems in Pittsburgh.

He ran a 4.7 at the combine and what I saw from him at the Senior Bowl was that he has a nose for the football and makes tackles. At 235 lbs, he isn't thick, so more in the Deion Jones or Telvin Smith type build and athleticism, rather than a thumper like Bostic. Leonard was the MEAC Defensive player of the year.

I haven't seen him play as a Colt, but he is going to be a good player for a while as long as he stays healthy IMO.

[Mojouw]

He ran a 4.7 at the combine and what I saw from him at the Senior Bowl was that he has a nose for the football and makes tackles. At 235 lbs, he isn't thick, so more in the Deion Jones or Telvin Smith type build and athleticism, rather than a thumper like Bostic. Leonard was the MEAC Defensive player of the year.

I haven't seen him play as a Colt, but he is going to be a good player for a while as long as he stays healthy IMO.

Yeah. I'm not trying to take anything away from the kid. Just wanting to know if anyone knows anything besides tackle stats for his NFL play and usage w/in the Colts scheme.

Say the Colts are using him like the Steelers use VW and he is excelling. That is great for Leonard and wouldn't do much to improve the Steelers situation. Another LB that blitzes through gaps and cleans things up w/in 3 yards of the LOS is an amazing thing to have in the NFL, but not what is causing the Steelers current defensive woes.

Now if Leonard is being used in space and coverages AND still having the impact his stat line seems to indicate, then, well, Leonard not wearing black and gold is something to lament.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yeah. I'm not trying to take anything away from the kid. Just wanting to know if anyone knows anything besides tackle stats for his NFL play and usage w/in the Colts scheme.

Say the Colts are using him like the Steelers use VW and he is excelling. That is great for Leonard and wouldn't do much to improve the Steelers situation. Another LB that blitzes through gaps and cleans things up w/in 3 yards of the LOS is an amazing thing to have in the NFL, but not what is causing the Steelers current defensive woes.

Now if Leonard is being used in space and coverages AND still having the impact his stat line seems to indicate, then, well, Leonard not wearing black and gold is something to lament.

To compare Leonard to Vince Williams or Jon Bostic, is an insult to the young man. They don't have his physical talents to chase down ballcarriers or play in space like Leonard. What the first 2 games in his NFL career are, is somewhat irrelevant, although impressive as its the proverbial "tip of the iceberg".

Leonard showed vs other NFL draftees at the senior Bowl in Mobile AB that he can run sideline to sideline and make tackles. He can drop into coverage in zone or man (he had 6INT in College) and he had the quickness and athleticism that neither Vince Williams or Jon Bostic has.

IMO, the only reason he was drafted in the 2nd round is the small school competition of the MEAC and the fact that he is somewhat thin of a frame. I think if he went to Boise St, that he would have been higher on the depth chart than VanderEsch, as LVE has the size and straightline speed, but Leonard's lateral quickness, sideline to sideline tape and game awareness/nose for the football would make him more productive.

Honestly, I think the Steelers and others didn't want to risk a 1st round pick on a guy that played in the MEAC from S. Carolina State and it was less of a risk to take a guy that played at Va. Tech, father is former NFL player and has a 41" vertical

[Mojouw]

To compare Leonard to Vince Williams or Jon Bostic, is an insult to the young man. They don't have his physical talents to chase down ballcarriers or play in space like Leonard. What the first 2 games in his NFL career are, is somewhat irrelevant, although impressive as its the proverbial "tip of the iceberg".

Leonard showed vs other NFL draftees at the senior Bowl in Mobile AB that he can run sideline to sideline and make tackles. He can drop into coverage in zone or man (he had 6INT in College) and he had the quickness and athleticism that neither Vince Williams or Jon Bostic has.

IMO, the only reason he was drafted in the 2nd round is the small school competition of the MEAC and the fact that he is somewhat thin of a frame. I think if he went to Boise St, that he would have been higher on the depth chart than VanderEsch, as LVE has the size and straightline speed, but Leonard's lateral quickness, sideline to sideline tape and game awareness/nose for the football would make him more productive.

Honestly, I think the Steelers and others didn't want to risk a 1st round pick on a guy that played in the MEAC from S. Carolina State and it was less of a risk to take a guy that played at Va. Tech, father is former NFL player and has a 41" vertical

I liked the guy pre-draft. Wanted the Steelers to draft him. But I have a couple of questions about how he is being used and will be used at the NFL level before I freak out over taking Edmunds instead. I also acknowledge that I am too inclined in many cases to prefer guys that test really well over guys that have better tape but poor testing #'s. That's my bias and it often leads to me making inaccurate projections about a guy's potential for success in the NFL. That being said:

1. In 2013 Bostic tested out as a superior athlete to Leonard. Now, if I remember correctly there was talk that Leonard's combine was marred by injury. A quick Google search and I didn't find Pro Day #'s. Also, Bostic has had a few injuries since 2013 and gained some weight. So who knows what their 40, 10 yard splits, and shuttle times would look like right now. But I think everyone constantly underestimates Bostic as an athlete. I mean that is why he is still in the league. It certainly isn't his production...

2. Is Leonard attacking the LOS and covering 5-15 yards down the field all while being able to get sideline to sideline? I realize that is basically asking "Is he at 2 games into his NFL career having an All-Pro impact" and is not a "fair" question. But it is the question that matters in the Steelers defensive scheme. If he got 15 tackles against the 'Skins by taking RBs and pass-catchers down after 2-5 yard gains - then I couldn't care less about him.

3. Would sticking Leonard on Travis Kelce running down the hashes have any different outcome than what is happening now? If not, then I still like Edmunds better because I think Edmunds can change that outcome once Butler and Bradley stop tripping over their own dicks getting the defense organized.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I

3. Would sticking Leonard on Travis Kelce running down the hashes have any different outcome than what is happening now? If not, then I still like Edmunds better .

I don't think there are any ILB in the NFL that matchup in man coverage with the talented TE's like Kelce, Gronk, Jimmy Graham, etc. If there is its only a few guys. I think if you are looking to cover TE's you need athletes like a Safety in man-to-man coverages.

If in Zone coverage, then I think athletic ILB's like Jones, Smith, Shazier, Leonard, etc can narrow passing lanes down the middle of the field and create tighter windows for QB throws. But with Bostic and Bince, those lanes are the size of a bowling alley because they aren't good enough athletes to get depth in zone.

Its an apples to oranges comparison with a ILB vs Safety. I will watch some Indy game if I find time, but Leonard would quickly become the Steelers best ILB if he was here. I would say by week 8.

[Mojouw]

I don't think there are any ILB in the NFL that matchup in man coverage with the talented TE's like Kelce, Gronk, Jimmy Graham, etc. If there is its only a few guys. I think if you are looking to cover TE's you need athletes like a Safety in man-to-man coverages.

If in Zone coverage, then I think athletic ILB's like Jones, Smith, Shazier, Leonard, etc can narrow passing lanes down the middle of the field and create tighter windows for QB throws. But with Bostic and Bince, those lanes are the size of a bowling alley because they aren't good enough athletes to get depth in zone.

Its an apples to oranges comparison with a ILB vs Safety. I will watch some Indy game if I find time, but Leonard would quickly become the Steelers best ILB if he was here. I would say by week 8.

That is all really solid stuff. And I certainly do not disagree with any of it. Looking over my post, I am certainly over-stating things more than a little!

Leonard would be an upgrade to the roster. But is it an upgrade that would make a difference? I just can't tell because I can't for the life of me figure out if the Steelers issues on defense are a lack of talent (something Leonard could address), a lack of high football IQ guys (again something Leonard could address), bad gameplan, terrible game-day management, or a toxic stew of all of that awful.

All I know is that the Steelers lack an impact player on defense beyond the LOS. Heyward, Tuitt, and even Hargrave can impact the game along the line -- but who on this roster can make plays outside of that? Doesn't really look like a blessed soul. And that is truly disappointing because I actually bought into Burns and Davis. There seemed to be so much to work with there.

Honestly, at this point I have to seriously question the Steelers player acquisition strategy. They appear to post Jarvis Jones to be focused on testing #'s that demonstrate a guy is the kind of quick-twitch athlete that can play and play well in the NFL. But they have then ended up with a lot of athletes that need "coached up" and at the LB and DB position groups they have demonstrated ZERO capability to do that. I really thought Bradley would have a positive impact and while it is still early -- I have not been encouraged. However, I remain optimistic because at DL, OL, WR, and even QB they seem to be able to make guys better.

[teegre]

Another good day for Leonard.

Cut it any way you’d like (dong sacks, system linebacker)... 52 tackles and 3 sacks in just three games is simply outstanding.

[fansince'76]

You can never make a final judgement on a player too soon. We haven't seen nearly enough of Edmunds to know anything yet.

[Mojouw]

Another good day for Leonard.

Cut it any way you’d like (dong sacks, system linebacker)... 52 tackles and 3 sacks in just three games is simply outstanding.

That doesn't seem right...

[teegre]

That doesn't seem right...

41 solo + 11 assists = 52 total tackles

[Dwinsgames]

41 solo + 11 assists = 52 total tackles

here we go with Math ( sure its basic Math ) but math none the less

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Another good day for Leonard.

Cut it any way you’d like (dong sacks, system linebacker)... 52 tackles and 3 sacks in just three games is simply outstanding.

I heard on Sirius XM today that he is the Colts defensive signal caller as well. Must be handling the learning curve well.